Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

That sounds more familiar then

[Squire Grooktook]

People discussing Castlevania canon is one of my pet peeves.
It's safe to say no one in Konami really cared. They just wanted to make a few more games about Simon whippin' Dracula's butt.

I think IGA did, tbh. In interviews he always struck me as having a lot of love for the pulpy/literary gothic genre roots of the franchise, and was enthusiastic about setting just the right tone and atmosphere for the action. Hence his canon policing (goodbye Legends!). You might think it silly, and nobodies going to argue that CV anything has a compelling narrative, but I think the aesthetic failings and cringe inducing tonal banality of Lords of Shadows shows what happens when you don't put that kind of love into your world. Of course, that's far from LOS's only issues...

On a side note, based on my own experience and numerous developer interviews, I quietly believe many arcade-y and simple action game developers hold secret love for their characters and world that players can never really grasp. That 5 line excuse plot you mashed through? Might've been the abridged version of a manga designer was dreaming of creating on his free time!

[Sumez]

Oh yeah I wasn't talking IGAvanias. But basically anything created before or without his involvement.

Even IGA's canon should be taken with a grain of salt though. Each game has its own world, but they don't necessarily need to mesh perfectly together.

[Squire Grooktook]

Actually, that brings up another interesting subject:

I've always enjoyed the stark difference in aesthetic between the Contra and Castlevania titles of that rough period of years.

IE comparing Hard Corp's playfully weird anime cyberpunk vibes with Contra 3's more traditional western action sci-fi style. Or the colorful and visceral violence of Bloodlines to CV4's moody, gothic atmosphere.

[dingsbums]

Finally tracked down a copy of Kick Master .
Developed by the same team that made Recca my expactations where up (and luckily I wasn't disappointed)
You don't hear a lot about this title but I think it's one of the best action platformers on the NES / Famicom. Graphics are great, sound is nice, controls are spot on and gameplay is tight .
While developed in Japan it was only released as US version .

What's are you guys thoughts on Kick Master ?

[Sumez]

Kickmaster is awesome for sure!

[Ghegs]

Kick Master's pretty cool, but the spells are very underutilized. You can go through most of the game without ever using them.

Love the graphics, especially Stage 2 in the cave.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Kick Master is an amazing game, tons of depth in the attacks at your disposal. The graphics and music were also incredible.

My only real complaint is a minor one: when you defeat enemies and random items pop out, occasionally a skull item pops out you have to dodge because it simply damages you if it touches you. It's not particularly difficult to do, but it's slightly tiresome dealing with it throughout the entire game.

If it was developed in Japan but only released in North America think it's similar to the adventure game Startropics.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Actually that reminds me - who here's played Totally Rad (originally released as Magic John)? The North American release made it cringy with surfer lingo (just look at the instruction manual) but it has a magic system similar to Kick Master and I remember the game itself was pretty good. Was a projectile attack based platformer as opposed to a close range/melee one.

[WelshMegalodon]

Unique to the MS-DOS version, class change was nearly impossible to achieve because stat growth was ridiculously unreliable. I remember going BELOW a 0 stat score and it wrapped around to like 31 or something stupid.

I'm not sure how you manage to dig up such an old post, but thanks for confirming it. I'm already quite fond of the PS1 Wizardry compilation, so if that version is also more faithful in that regard, that's also good to hear.

And wow, to think you beat the Apple ][ version that tries to save when you die... I thought EmperorIng was the forum's premier masochist after he shared his love for Druaga, but man.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It wasn't that impressive honestly, I pretty much cheesed the game. I was playing it in an emulator and I think I cranked the cycles up to a reasonable game speed because normally the game is very, very slow otherwise.

To avoid any potential deaths, and I basically spend all my time grinding on Murphy's Ghosts on level 1 which are 100% safe to deal with when you have a couple level 2-3+ fighters. They give a decent amount of exp and there is no risk involved in grinding on them, just time. Level 2 and onward is where enemies with instadeath attacks start to show, but I wanted to quickly clear the game for the heck of it, and the best strategy for doing so involves that has no risk of losing characters to permadeath essentially requires ignoring trying to find fancy equipment in the lower levels. Instead, just get a team with every character knowing Haman or Mahaman at level 15 or so (class change a few mages into fighters so all 6 characters can use it), rush to the bottom floor, and spend your levels to Haman/Mahaman the hell out of anything with magic resistance (including the final boss).

If you're curious, here is an old forum thread detailing my experimentation on the MS-DOS, NES, and Apple II versions for the Haman and Mahaman spells (and for the record I've never seen Mahaman's resurrection effect fail): https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/56 ... d/60052256

I actually can't remember if the PS1 version uses the "select effect totally at random" Apple II style of Haman/Mahaman or if it uses the "your pick from 3 randomly chosen effects" that shows up in later remakes, but I suspect it's the latter.

edit: And yeah, the couple of times I played it in DOSBox I literally was never able to get stats high enough to change to a Lord, Samurai, or Ninja. The only Samurai I had was one made at the start in character generation, and Ninjas you can make via an item. If you're still into the series and own an Android device, I strongly recommend looking up the Wandroid games which are like fanmade Wizardry style games. Free version has ads, paid version without ads. The later scenario adds classes and races found in the later Wizardry series lile alchemist and bard.

[Jonny2x4]

Speaking of GameFAQS - Oi Jonny! You wrote the Downtown Nekketsu Koushinkyoku FAQ right? Cheers bud, much appreciated.

For a long time it was just Monogatari, Special and Dodgeball I was into, but I'm gradually exploring the others (Famicom only for now). I was subconsciously dreading a Hyper Olympic button-masher in Koushinkyoku, but it seems to play pretty smoothly. Killer art design too, the chibi cityscape is just as charming as Monogatari's. As soon as the course sent me barreling through a hapless couple's dining room I was charmed.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I used to had short-lived FAQ writing "career" back in my middle/high school days, but to be honest my old work leaves a lot to be desired in retrospect, considering my grasp of Japanese was pretty poor back then (so a few details are off as a result and I never got around to adding all the content I wanted, such as translations for the opening and ending sequences).

Anyway, Monogatari, Koushinkyoku and Jidaigeki were all directed by the duo of Hiroyuki Sekimoto and Mitsuhiro Yoshida (aka Miracle Kidz). They also worked on the SFC version of Dodge Ball and Baseball. That's the reason why those games have such a consistent cast of supporting characters, whereas all the other Kunio games seem to have nothing in common with each other, besides the fact that Kunio (and occasionally Riki) appears in them.

Yoshida was also the director of the Famicom version of Dodgeball, while Sekimoto directed Famicom Double Dragon II. That's the reason why Ryuichi and Ryuji were given the Hyper Knee and Hyper Upper respectively in Koushinkyoku (I think they also had those techniques in Baseball Monogatari IIRC).

The later Kunio games on the Famicom (starting with Hockey Club) were made by a separate Technos subsidiary in Niigata that was established precisely to continue doing Kunio games on the Famicom while the main Tokyo team focused on the Super Famicom. Hence why they have a less consistent continuity to them.

This is also the reason why the original Kunio-kun (aka Renegade) has more in common with Double Dragon than Downtown Nekketsu Monogatari, since Kishimoto barely had anything to do with the Kunio series outside the original and Kunio-tachi no Banka.

People discussing Castlevania canon is one of my pet peeves.
It's safe to say no one in Konami really cared. They just wanted to make a few more games about Simon whippin' Dracula's butt.

I think IGA did, tbh. In interviews he always struck me as having a lot of love for the pulpy/literary gothic genre roots of the franchise, and was enthusiastic about setting just the right tone and atmosphere for the action. Hence his canon policing (goodbye Legends!). You might think it silly, and nobodies going to argue that CV anything has a compelling narrative, but I think the aesthetic failings and cringe inducing tonal banality of Lords of Shadows shows what happens when you don't put that kind of love into your world. Of course, that's far from LOS's only issues...

On a side note, based on my own experience and numerous developer interviews, I quietly believe many arcade-y and simple action game developers hold secret love for their characters and world that players can never really grasp. That 5 line excuse plot you mashed through? Might've been the abridged version of a manga designer was dreaming of creating on his free time!

The three Famicom Dracula games all have pretty elaborated backstories in their manuals that are not reflected in-game. I might've mentioned this before, but Christopher Belmont is actually mentioned in the manual for the original FCD Dracula. He wasn't just some guy they made up suddenly when they needed to make a Castlevania prequel. There's even theories that Ralph C. Belmont was originally meant to be Christopher due to his middle initial and how close Akumajo Densetsu's development overlapped with Dracula Densetsu.

[Stevens]

Thought this looked interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Nqi3VbH1s

Reminds be a little of Gunlord - levels that are sort of open world Metroid ish, but they're actually really linear. Hope it plays well.

[Dochartaigh]

Is the general consensus that Ninja Gaiden on PCE/TG16 is inferior to NES like I've read about on the internet? I was going through my game list on my SSDS3 last night and was surprised Ninja Gaiden was on this system (I never knew). Graphics really do look better than the NES version - but everyone says it's the inferior game?

[BIL]

Decidedly inferior. I was totally ready to give it a chance, but although it manages the broadest strokes, its myriad issues collectively drag it down into mediocrity. Hardly awful in the grand scheme of things, just nowhere good enough to compete with the FC version or its sequels.

Had the original been so meh, this would be the Vice Project Doom [NES] thread instead.

[mycophobia]

dat choppy background scrolling D:

[BIL]

Yeah it's brutal. What in Christ! Will make you wish for the SFC comp's approach of just disabling parallax altogether.

[BrianC]

Yeah it's brutal. What in Christ! Will make you wish for the SFC comp's approach of just disabling parallax altogether.

Oddly enough, the Lynx port of Ninja Gaiden III also used the same approach of disabling parallax, but keeps the brutal difficulty of the original NES version.

[EmperorIng]

PCE NG "defenders" will say that it's superior to the FC game because its hitbox stays entirely on Ryu's sword - and the fact that the FC Ninja Gaiden's attack box extends several pixels beyond the sword makes it the "buggy" and "glitched" version. And that you can't "glitch-kill" bosses with the spin attack anymore, so it is clearly the more refined product.

Yes, there is a lot of delusion out there.

[BIL]

I will always maintain NG1's slightly over-generous attack frames (particularly while airborne) were either utter genius, or an exceedingly happy accident. Whatever the cause, they temper the game's high-precision, high-speed demands to alchemic effect. Smooth! NGII chucked the baby out with the bathwater, unfortunately.

As for the JS speedkills... what kinda noob actually enjoys spending time with NG1's lame bosses? The thrill is in keeping JS all the way to the boss, despite it hobbling your jumping sword, then ripping their face off! The only good ones (Jaquio & Jashin) can't be JSed anyway*. Another precious darling takes a sudsy flight.

*Look out! That's a landmine I put there to cut noobs off at the knees. Watch: "NAW YOU CAN JS JAQUIO ON FC, U JUST DIE AND GO BACK" Yeah you do that cupcake, while you're bumbling your way back to Jaq I'm at the staff roll signing autographs and closing deals. Get like me. )

Yes, there is a lot of delusion out there.

Maybe they want to sell their copies

[EmperorIng]

Maybe they want to sell their copies

This is perfectly relatable though. There's a few games I really need to hype up so I can get them out of my sell pile. Have you guys heard of this awesome mecha sidescroller called Browning??

[FinalBaton]

PCE NG "defenders" will say that it's superior to the FC game because its hitbox stays entirely on Ryu's sword - and the fact that the FC Ninja Gaiden's attack box extends several pixels beyond the sword makes it the "buggy" and "glitched" version. And that you can't "glitch-kill" bosses with the spin attack anymore, so it is clearly the more refined product.

Yes, there is a lot of delusion out there.

Man, those people are delusional

despite not being perfectly snapped to the katana grafx, the NES NG1 hitbox complements the action so damn well, almost perfectly.

It is a rightful part of the HIGH OCTANE SURGICAL-PRECISION ACTION game that is NG1.

Plus the PCE game has a bunch of little flaws as said previously, it's in no way ahead of the FC one just becuz snapped katana grafx

[Sumez]

I've never actually heard of people defending the PCE version. I mean, I wouldn't mind to see it go up in price, as that's the only thing that could make me feel better about ever buying that atrocity, but honestly - where did you hear that stuff?

[BIL]

Remember Sumez! The internet is full of bad gamers.

[mycophobia]

ok I said before that Keima was the worst Mystic Warriors character but actually it's Kojiro. not only does he have the slow ass rate of fire but his shots also don't do shit for damage, and his melee has no horizontal range but can hit enemies way below him (why???). clearing with this jerk is gonna be a real pain

[BrianC]

The most interesting thing about the PCE Ninja Gaiden is that it has a hidden English option. I think NEC made the right call in not bringing it over, though.

[BIL]

Sometime last year, during R2RKMF PART 1 >¦3

Unlike Zelda II, Faxanadu or Legacy of the Wizard, I actually finished Battle of Olympus as a kid. Wayyy too long ago to comment in detail, but I have very fond memories of its overworld and climactic trip to Tartarus, and slight misgivings about a bit of grinding 4 cash. The former outweighing the latter - I must revisit. One of those Famicom games that goes for cheap but doesn't appear often in good nick, at least in the usual places I look. I waited years for a nice CIB Highway Star, goddamn it felt good to finally nab that one.

Finarry. >:3

Spoiler

Imagineer is a name I know well, but their WAVEJACK JR label was a pleasant surprise! I like the moniker and logo almost as much as THINKING RABBIT of 8 Eyes. And being on a good game's box doesn't hurt either!

I'd forgotten just how closely this game mimics Zelda II's engine. It handles almost like a re-sprite. In design terms it easily distinguishes itself however. Total reliance on sidescrolling action, and a lack of conventional town/field borders, give exploration and travel a more consistently fraught air. Brings to mind a much harder FC Rygar.

Like Zelda II, it's rather cruel on first (or re-acquainting) runs. Persistent, exacting combat will inevitably whittle you down, and new areas may seem alarmingly brutal until you've acclimated. Deaths don't come cheap either, axing half your money. The grinding 4 cash is indeed a shame - particularly with the action being easily tough enough to provide compelling resistance. Feels like a needless concession to RPG formula, in the absence of Zelda II's levelling... which was, at least in JP, vanishingly light to begin with. Like Vanguard has said, it seems plausible that going with fewer or no deaths would eliminate the lion's share. As always I'm into this sort of game for the long haul, and the casual fun of assembling and mastering a single-session run, so I'll enjoy aiming for that. I hobbled to the mountain area after taking many ass-kickings in the forest maze and Laconia, before deciding to snaffle it up and finish later.

I was pleasantly surprised to find the Metal Storm-esque gravity boots are available from nearly the start! I mis-remembered the ceiling-walking as an environmental feature exclusive to Hell. Less creepy to know it's executable anywhere, but obviously much more satisfying mechanically. The switch mechanic is super-smooth and incredibly useful when you need a breather.

I am also most pleased that Guardic Gaiden and Dragon Slayer IV have been reunited with their Broderbund labelmate on the other side. I never had the same attachment to Deadly Towers/Mashou, however! I've actually not written that one off just yet but I ain't hopeful tbh.

[Jonny2x4]

Finally got around to sending my front-loading NES for reparations. Hopefully I'll be back playing my NES library soon on real hardware instead of relying on emulation. Maybe I can finally do a no-miss clear on Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden.

Anyway, I've played the PS3 versions of Metal Gear 1 & 2 that are included with the MGS3 HD Edition and I noticed even more differences between them and the actual MSX2 originals. After you get captured in the first game, the enemy will plant a transmitter on your inventory. In the MSX2 version, it keeps you in a constant alert mode, whereas in the Subsistence versions it simply triggers alert mode automatically when you enter an area with enemy guards.

Also, the Subsistence version resets the number of bombs you detonated if you die and continue during the Metal Gear boss battle, whereas on the MSX2 version it still keeps track of them. I remember when I played the MSX2 version emulated for the first time back when MGS1 first came out, I ran out of plastic explosives and when I placed the first bomb on Metal Gear's right foot after continuing, it was destroyed instantly.

Interestingly, in the Subsistence version when you place a bomb on Metal Gear foot in the wrong order, it doesn't reset the sequence - it simply doesn't register the damage. I can't remember if the MSX2 version was anything like that.

[Randorama]

I am not dead (yet), but I discovered that there is a Rolling Thunder hack emulated in MAME that gives you 120 seconds per stage.
I cannot see how I can clear stage 8 without losing one life, but using this ultra-tight time limit has regenerated the game for me.

Also, I am trying to understand why I liked Gaiapolis so much, back in the day. It feels extremely slow, even if the game system is ok.

[__SKYe]

So, it's been a while since I cleared Contra FC, and I've wanted to put it up on Youtube for a while as well, so I finally went for the no miss. Only when I did it (a few days ago), using the Spreadshot, I found it to not actually be that hard anyway, since S annihilates anything very fast, so I figured that going with the Peashooter only was the way to go, and, since I was already not using any weapons, I might as well not pick up any items either (which is kinda in tune with my NG video as well). This, of course, means no Rapidshot, Invincibility, nor screen clearing bombs. And no external autofire as well.

Overall it went fairly nicely, with no major screw ups (Contra is 1HKO after all), though a few spots play somewhat differently when not using the spreadshot. The hardest bosses, for me, were the stage 5 (Snow Field) one, followed by the stage 4 (Base 2) boss. Base 2's one is harder than normal for obvious reasons (you need to snipe those pesky semi-homing bullets), but the Snow Field was because with the spreadshot, you don't even need to move to destroy it, since you will destroy both his bullets and the small enemies that come from its sides at the same time. It took me a few tries to finally not die against it, and when I finally didn't, I got the no-miss.
As for the stages themselves, stage 6 (Energy Zone) is the one took the most care, because I was used to pick up the Invincibility item in the middle of the stage, and riding with it until near the boss. The machinegunners at the very end of the next stage are also one of the more dangerous spots, since they keep you pinned down while zakos spawn from behind you (nearly screwed up there).
Other than that, there was a fair amount of button mashing needed, especially against the two tanks in the Snow Field.

It is uploaded, and I finally learned my lesson and went with 720p at 60Hz, so that the sprites that rapidly flicker don't disappear due to dropping every other frame (though I guess it doesn't matter much when playing it at lower resolutions). Not only that, but I learned not disable any filtering (that is, going with nearest neighbour) when resizing the original resolution, to avoid all the ugly artifacts when encoding later, and the video now looks cleaner.
Now, I need to reupload the other (thankfully few) videos in a similar quality as well. When I have the patience, that is.

It was nice to bring some closure to this old favourite, even more so, since it was the game that led me to this thread in the first place.

Also, I am trying to understand why I liked Gaiapolis so much, back in the day. It feels extremely slow, even if the game system is ok.

Perhaps what you liked was playing with Fairy, and not the game itself.