Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

Lol, just randomly came across this post from a year ago.

Whoever "Jonny2x4" is, he's a champ.

[Jonny2x4]

Thanks, it's my pleasure!

Incidentally, that post is what encouraged me to register an account here in the first place.

[Sumez]

Haha, incredible timing! Glad to have you here.

[__SKYe]

After a long time (been putting this one off for years now) finally cleared Symphony Of the Night.
I purposely worked through both the bad ending and also wanted to get both good ones, but I only remembered the 196% map requirement as I was very near the end, so when I finally got all the way to Shaft/Dracula I had a majestic 196.4% and was denied the good (but not best) ending. Guess I explored a bit too much, though I'm not really inclined to start a new game just to get it .
I do intend to play as Richter and Maria eventually, but it's a fairly long game so I'm putting on hold for now.

After clearing it, I realized that it had also been an embarrasingly long time since I started playing Akumajou Densetsu and AD X68k, so I also cleared AD (FC).



Played through it using only Belmont (also intend to go through it using each of the other characters and through different routes), took both the upper routes (Grant and Sypha).

The last 3 levels (especially the 9th) really pick up difficulty-wise.
Stage 9 is by far the hardest, though thanks to it I got pretty decent at dealing with birds on the waterways and the stairways with the bonepillars and flying skeleton-things. This was the level that took me the most time to go through, only to reach the boss with little life and getting sent back to a checkpoint, or more commonly, the start of the level.
Lost against the fake Belmont a few times, mostly because I was rushing it (I didn't really want to have to clear the entire level again), but at the 3rd~4th time I suddenly realized that he's painfully easy to beat and won without taking a single hit.
I'm not sure how the fight goes with the other characters, but with Belmont+Cross it was very easy. Definitely much easier than the equivalent fight in the X68000 game.

An interesting thing about this stage is that, if you're playing as Belmont only and without sub-weapons (like how you start the stage if you die or use a password), you won't get a sub-weapon until the upper part of the waterway (you can get a cross on the very first candle there). You need to go through about half (or more) of the entire stage before you even get to collect one.

Also discovered -- accidentally, I might add -- that your character will automatically whip just by holding the attack button down, if you're on a staircase. I had never noticed this before, and am not sure if the other games have it.

Surprisingly, the last stage is considerably easier than the 9th, and I managed to go through it pretty fast.
Until this point, I always considered (and still do) the fact that your character won't jump when there's a block above you, simply an annoying quirk of the game, but it actually comes into play on the auto-scroll section of this stage, where if you go into the wrong spot you won't be able to jump to a lower platform at all, and will simply fall straight into your doom (though you can make the jump by purposely getting hit by a medusa head and using the knockback as a pseudo-jump).

As for Dracula, I found his first form tougher than his standard one in the other games (the 3-way fireballs plus the disappearing act), finding myself getting trapped by his annoying fire pillars pretty often. His 2nd form is the easiest, though you do need to be swift in dealing with the faces on one side, otherwise you have to move beneath him and risk getting hit by the acid.
The 3rd form isn't actually hard either, and I actually lost by timeout on my second attempt against him (won on the 3rd). He reminds me of the similar last boss on one of the Makaimura games (Dai, I think?), albeit easier.
It is the first time Dracula has a 3rd form right? Pretty fun finale.

Also, loved to learn that the music from Dracula's final two forms is where the Circle Of The Moon boss theme originated from. Always fun to see (and hear) the tunes in their original compositions.

Still have to clear the X68000 game -- only Death and Dracula remaining.

-----

It also got me thinking. Castlevania(s) is usually a target of criticism regarding the staircases (among other things, of course), but don't you think that staircases are actually pretty fair, considering that although you do climb them slowly, they save you from a potentially deadly knockback, especially important in long sections with little platforms like the ones in stage 9 of CVIII?
Imagine what people would say if you actually got knocked off them when hit.

The only thing that actually bugs me a bit, is that you can't crouch when near a descending staircase. Minor issue, though, and one must simply remember to move away from it a bit before attempting it.

[FinalBaton]

It also got me thinking. Castlevania(s) is usually a target of criticism regarding the staircases (among other things, of course), but don't you think that staircases are actually pretty fair, considering that although you do climb them slowly, they save you from a potentially deadly knockback, especially important in long sections with little platforms like the ones in stage 9 of CVIII?
Imagine what people would say if you actually got knocked off them when hit.

The only thing that actually bugs me a bit, is that you can't crouch when near a descending staircase. Minor issue, though, and one must simply remember to move away from it a bit before attempting it.

I personally very rarely fall in pits in Classicvanias, so can't say that I see a big advantage there. Almost never get hit in Castlevania 3 in the long staircase with the winged skeletons-demons and fireball-spitting demon skulls either. Overall, I'd say that stairs are a bit cheap(can't jump wilst on 'em and firing sub-weapon is a bit harder), but the games are so damn good that I can't hold that against them. But it is nice for sure that when on them and hit, you don't fall. But in all honesty, I can't see a programer handling the long staircase I just mentionned, where you lose a life each time you get hit, that'd just be sadistic, haha. I think they pretty much didn't have a choice but to make it so you don't fall.

[__SKYe]

I have to say that, on occasion, I found myself making a dash for the stairs in order to avoid getting hit and subsequently knocked back into a pit. I also occasionally soak a hit on purpose, while on a staircase (especially in places such as that section in CVIII's St9, but also when there are medusa heads around) to make it to the next area.
I guess it is something that becomes less useful or noticeable as you get better, but it happens to me a fair bit when I'm still getting used to the stages.

Overall, I'd say that stairs are a bit cheap(can't jump wilst on 'em and firing sub-weapon is a bit harder), but the games are so damn good that I can't hold that against them.

True, but even then, I don't think they deserve the amount of hate they get, since they do provide a challenge that is nearly unique to Castlevania games. Those same stairway sections in CVIII's stage 9, wouldn't have nearly the same impact they do if you could jump climb them like in the later (16-bit) titles.
Not that one is better than the other, rather, the stairs provide a unique gameplay flavour that I honestly enjoy.

Also, I have to bring up the X68000 title's Tower Of Dolls, where the stairs play the reverse role -- they are actually the safe spots. As long as you don't move while on the stairs, neither will the dolls, and that is the key to consistently get past that section unscathed.

But in all honesty, I can't see a programer handling the long staircase I just mentionned, where you lose a life each time you get hit, that'd just be sadistic, haha. I think they pretty much didn't have a choice but to make it so you don't fall

Haha, that is true. Not even the Konami code would help there.

[FinalBaton]

True, but even then, I don't think they deserve the amount of hate they get

That part is true. Scrubs really flip out online sometimes and if you were to believe them, the stairs in Classicvanias are worst than Hitler. lol. they do get way more hate than they deserve

[Obscura]

SotN has multiple "good" endings depending on map%? Huh, never knew that (I doubt I've ever seen the best ending then, given that I'm not obsessive enough to try to drive the counter to really high percentages).

[soprano1]

SotN has multiple "good" endings depending on map%? Huh, never knew that (I doubt I've ever seen the best ending then, given that I'm not obsessive enough to try to drive the counter to really high percentages).

Yep:

Spoiler

Bad Ending: Defeat Richter, while wearing the glasses Maria gave you.
Best Ending: In the battle with Richter, wear the glasses Maria gave you and defeat the green specter. After completing both castles with a percentage of at least 196, defeat the final boss.
Good Ending: In the battle with Richter, wear the glasses Maria gave you and defeat the green specter. After completing both castles with a percentage below 195, defeat the final boss.
Worst Ending: Defeat Richter, but don't wear the glasses Maria gave you.

From gamefaqs.

[__SKYe]

SotN has multiple "good" endings depending on map%? Huh, never knew that (I doubt I've ever seen the best ending then, given that I'm not obsessive enough to try to drive the counter to really high percentages).

Yeah, it's minimal stuff though:

Spoiler

You get the same good ending until Alucard leaves. If you have less than 196% Maria will stay with Richter and if you have more she'll go after Alucard.

Though I do indeed had a bit of a completionist run, my main focus was to fight every boss in the game, so I ended up exploring most of the castle.

I have some mixed feelings about the second castle, though. While it is a fantastic game overall, the fact that the second castle is an open ended quest (in a way) ruins the balance of the game. Some of the bosses will be very easy to defeat, while other will be very tough (Galamoth being the main one, though I was able to trap him in a pattern). You also have areas with painfully easy enemies, while others, such as the corridors around the big clock, have ridiculously strong enemies that will kill you fast, especially considering that you can go there pretty soon in the second castle.

Still enjoyed the hell out of it.

[soprano1]

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26114
What do you guys think of this Castlevania HD pack?

[FinalBaton]

Playing Castlevania III a lot lately. Man, what a great game... and it looks dope on my new Sony prosumer crt, even in composite (currently waiting for parts to make an RGB cable for it).

Stage 9 really pushes you to clear it on one life if you want to face Doppleganger with the axe, and use the good old trick against him. The waterway with the birds is also WAY more chill with the axe, this weapon is made to obliterate those. Without it you've gotta do a lot of baiting to have them line up somewhat, and even then they sometime rush your head, and at that point your whip won't connect while standing still, gotta jump-slash on VERY short notice. Oh man... oh well, it's still ton of fun, and very doable.

But I've been trying to come with a strategy with the cross against Doppleganger, since you gcan still get that if you die on the stage. And I think I've found something pretty consistant.

Getting better at the game too, even though I've played it a ton already

[__SKYe]

The waterway with the birds is also WAY more chill with the axe, this weapon is made to obliterate those. Without it you've gotta do a lot of baiting to have them line up somewhat, and even then they sometime rush your head, and at that point your whip won't connect while standing still, gotta jump-slash on VERY short notice. Oh man... oh well, it's still ton of fun, and very doable.

Something I actually got quite used to clear -- had to play this section with no sub-weapons a ton of times (in fact, never reached it with one), and eventually got pretty decent at it. You do get the cross before crossing the water on the upper paht, and you can use it to preempetively take out the last two birds.
The one thing I used to mess up a lot, was trying to rush through the water by jumping (since you move slower because the water current is against you) and accidentally hitting a Merman. Really had to get used to not do it, since those 4HP per hit really sting.

Getting better at the game too, even though I've played it a ton already

One of the joys of classic action games.

EDIT:

My current way of beating fake-Belmont:

Spoiler

I don't actually use any sub-weapons on him, I just thought he used whatever sub-weapon you're carrying against you (and that's why indicated I fought him with the Cross earlier) but apparently he always used the Cross.

Keep in mind this is the Japanese version, so it may not work in the US version.

EDIT2: Typos.

[FinalBaton]

Wow! didn't know you could kill him like that! you found a nice pattern there

I'm playing US version though,you saying it doesn't work in there? Too bad. I still get him everytime with the axe though, but it's pretty cheap, haha

[__SKYe]

I'm playing US version though,you saying it doesn't work in there? Too bad. I still get him everytime with the axe though, but it's pretty cheap, haha

Oh crap, I miswrote that. I meant to say that I play the JP version and, since there are so many differences between it and the US version, I don't know if it works there too. Sorry about that.

That run went pretty well, but sometimes he'll jump into the top platforms. You can jump over him by doing what I did there -- jumping from the ledge of the top platform, and you'll jump over him as well.
It takes a bit of trial and error, but he goes down pretty easily most of the time.

[FinalBaton]

Yeah I had noticed that you can jump over him on the top platform! That's what I do when I face him with the cross (my capture setup is missing stuff right now, so can't record). But after jumping above him, I go from one top platform to the other, as fast as possible, and from there I'm able to catch him with a cross when he's jumping on the middle section whilst coming towards me. Rinse and repeat

I found a sure fire way to get through A-02 now, so that's good. Even though it's not a long segment, it's still important to constantly arrive at Drac with full health

Good thing there are passwords in this game! Gonna have to practice Drac a bunch of times before I can constantly clear him witout a problem, haha. Other parts will need practicing too

EDIT : hey! just realized that there's a visual cue for when 1st form Drac summons the middle fire pillar. Awesome!

[Voliko]

I commited to beating Battletoads NES this weekend. I have gotten to the last stage once so far. However, my 3 runs after that all ended with the Rat Race glitch. Makes me want to drop this game but I really want to see it through- it's such a brilliant, meticulously designed game. Anyone know how to avoid the glitch?

[__SKYe]

I found a sure fire way to get through A-02 now, so that's good. Even though it's not a long segment, it's still important to constantly arrive at Drac with full health

Yeah, fortunately it is a considerably easier stage than the previous one.
Interestingly enough, the only form of Dracula that I actually take damage on, is the first. This happens mainly on those occasions when he creates the 2 smaller pillars right next to you, and you have no way to avoid the larger one.
The other actual danger against him, is a timeout, though getting hit by the last form's beams is pretty nasty (4HP per hit, I believe). It's a long fight in any case.

Good thing there are passwords in this game! Gonna have to practice Drac a bunch of times before I can constantly clear him witout a problem, haha. Other parts will need practicing too

True, though the ones I'm really happy with, are the ones that allow you to start with the other characters from stage 1 (otherwise you'd have to play with Belmont (or Grant) until you've reached the other characters. Especially important to me, since I prefer to play through the game with a single character at a time.
Also, the password(s) to start at the second loop are pretty handy.

[FinalBaton]

True, though the ones I'm really happy with, are the ones that allow you to start with the other characters from stage 1

Didn't know those existed. That's pretty cool

[Sumez]

I commited to beating Battletoads NES this weekend. I have gotten to the last stage once so far. However, my 3 runs after that all ended with the Rat Race glitch. Makes me want to drop this game but I really want to see it through- it's such a brilliant, meticulously designed game. Anyone know how to avoid the glitch?

What does the glitch do? I've never heard of it before.

[Voliko]

I commited to beating Battletoads NES this weekend. I have gotten to the last stage once so far. However, my 3 runs after that all ended with the Rat Race glitch. Makes me want to drop this game but I really want to see it through- it's such a brilliant, meticulously designed game. Anyone know how to avoid the glitch?

What does the glitch do? I've never heard of it before.

What happens is at the end of the last race the rat doesn't drop down. You are then stuck with no way to kill yourself, forcing a reset. Tried searching online and it seems like the rat goes straight through a wall near the bottom and doesn't come back. Not sure if it has something to do with my execution and timing or just terrible luck.

[FinalBaton]

Well this is good.


Hey, look : Sypha is getting comfortable


Well, they're both getting VERY cozy now!


Hold on, hold on, hold on


Did these two bang? They totally did
"but since she met Trevor she is beginning to feel more comfortable with herself" ya, ya, ya, stories of emancipation, you don't need to make me a drawing bud
BERUMONDO totally smashed that wizard pussy

[BrianC]

What happens is at the end of the last race the rat doesn't drop down. You are then stuck with no way to kill yourself, forcing a reset. Tried searching online and it seems like the rat goes straight through a wall near the bottom and doesn't come back. Not sure if it has something to do with my execution and timing or just terrible luck.

Telling from youtube videos, it looks like there are a few glitches in that level. One video showed the colors going whack when playing as Zitz, another showed two players skipping to the end of the level, and another one showed the game locking up after Rash kicked the time bomb.

edit: Doh, the game didn't crash, the person who did the video paused the game after Rash kicked the bomb since the rat didn't come down like he was supposed to. That's what happens when I view videos with the sound off.

[Sumez]

Did these two bang? They totally did
"but since she met Trevor she is beginning to feel more comfortable with herself" ya, ya, ya, stories of emancipation, you don't need to make me a drawing bud
BERUMONDO totally smashed that wizard pussy

I hate the concept of "Castlevania canon", but yeah I do believe Sypha is canonically an ancestor of Simon Belmont.

[Sumez]

Considering people are consistently speedrunning that game I'm pretty sure it can be avoided consistently. I can't find any info on it though.

[Jonny2x4]

Did these two bang? They totally did
"but since she met Trevor she is beginning to feel more comfortable with herself" ya, ya, ya, stories of emancipation, you don't need to make me a drawing bud
BERUMONDO totally smashed that wizard pussy

I hate the concept of "Castlevania canon", but yeah I do believe Sypha is canonically an ancestor of Simon Belmont.

Harmony of Dissonance was the first time the series ever established that one of the Belmonts (Juste) was descended from the Belnandes clan, although he's a generation between Simon and Richter.

Castlevania's canon was something of a mess prior to SotN. The MSX2 version of Dracula had somewhat different backstory from the FC version if I recall correctly (as did the later AC game where Simon had to rescue his kidnapped bride) and both, Akumajou Densetsu and Dracula Densetsu (which were both released at the end of 1989) each claimed that they took place 100 years before the original FC Dracula. There's some speculation whether Trevor C. Belmont was intended to be Christopher Belmont due to his middle initial and the fact that Christopher was already mentioned by name in the manual for the FC Dracula (meaning he wasn't just a character made up for the GB game), although later games just went with the idea that Trevor was Christopher's ancestor.

I always wondered if Akamatsu (the director of the NES Castlevanias) seeing his character used by another team was what inspired him to tell Kojima to make his own Metal Gear sequel.

[Obscura]

I found a sure fire way to get through A-02 now, so that's good. Even though it's not a long segment, it's still important to constantly arrive at Drac with full health

Yeah, fortunately it is a considerably easier stage than the previous one.
Interestingly enough, the only form of Dracula that I actually take damage on, is the first. This happens mainly on those occasions when he creates the 2 smaller pillars right next to you, and you have no way to avoid the larger one.
The other actual danger against him, is a timeout, though getting hit by the last form's beams is pretty nasty (4HP per hit, I believe). It's a long fight in any case..

The fire pillar spacing is based on your distance from Dracula. There's no reason to ever get hit in the first form.

[FinalBaton]

yeah i never get hit by first form, so my experience is quite different from _SKYe's!

(I personally thought that the distance between pillar was calculated by the amount of ground you cover during a certain timing though. I go far back and walk towards him and that works nicely. I'll try just standing still, far way.)

[Obscura]

What I always do is stand just at the end of whip distance; this always gives me plenty of room. When he materializes, I jump and whip him, and then I avoid the big flame in whichever direction will put me closer to the center of the screen.

[mycophobia]

Finally got my no death run on Shadow Dancer arcade on the hardest mode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dBu5M2T1KE

I guess the next step would be no death no ninja magic but eh....that will come much later if at all. There's a couple of points in the game I'm not sure if it's even possible to get past without ninja magic on hardest difficulty (end of 2-3 comes to mind).

I've decided this game is better than Shinobi. It looks better, sounds better, it's harder, and it doesn't have a total bullshit completely luck-based third boss.