Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

__SKYe wrote:Another one very obscure (if you just think about the method for uncovering it), but that perhaps was also intentional by the developers:
Spoiler
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Uncovered by waiting 5 seconds on top of the platform.
Perhaps meant to be discovered by an overly cautious player, waiting on top of the platform for the enemy below to move away.
Oh wow - I didn't know about that one (or its unlock mechanic) at all. :shock: I like that the architecture gives a very distinct visual marker with that plunging column, even though I'd honestly never have found that on my own.

I wonder how much else might be lurking about. Suddenly that one secret elevator in SOTN seems less random, and more of a deliberate reference. I guess that shouldn't be too surprising, given the Rondo/SOTN team's obviously deep appreciation of oldschool Dracula obscurities... I'm still caught off-guard by stuff to this day, like recently learning the secret second floor of SOTN's Keep was (minor Rondo+CV1 secret)
Spoiler
a reference to a hidden room above Rondo's... which was itself an homage to a CV1 bug I'd never even heard of. That's dedication!
Do you mean the one you uncover by jumping over the castle's entrance at the strat of the game?
There's another one on the very first screen of Stage 2, triggered by breaking the wall on top of the first stairs, and walking inside, though you do need to break the wall first.
Ah yes - totally forgot about stage 2's crown. I like that you can "collect" it by going straight upstairs (you'll nab it during the screen transition). Triggering the crown, then blowing away the knight and his bat buddy and hauling ass upstairs before it can vanish turns a would-be item-fetching chore into a fun little stunt. :cool:
Last edited by BIL on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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__SKYe
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by __SKYe »

BIL wrote:Holy fuck, I didn't know about that one (or that unlock method) at all. :shock: I do wonder how much else might be lurking about. Suddenly that one secret elevator in SOTN seems less random, and more of a deliberate reference. (I guess that shouldn't be too surprising given the Rondo/SOTN team's obviously deep appreciation of oldschool Dracula obscurities)
And I wouldn't know about it at all, as well, if I hadn't stumbled upon some review/text somewhere. One of those sad cases where I inadvertently learned something I wish I didn't, and one of the reasons I try hard to stay away from spoilers (big or small) of games I might play, nowadays. :(
I do know there are other treasures that are uncovered by the same method, but I don't know where.
BIL wrote:Ah yes - totally forgot about stage 2's crown. I like that you can "collect" it by going straight upstairs (you'll nab it during the screen transition). Triggering the crown, then blowing away the knight and his bat buddy and hauling ass upstairs before it can vanish turns a would-be item-fetching chore into a fun little stunt. :cool:
Haha, I didn't know you could collect it by going up, though.

I do enjoy this sort of trinket hunting, as long as it doesn't become a chore to do (ie. the game having too many of them, making collecting them go from something special, to just plain boring. Fortunately, not the case here).
BIL wrote:I wonder how much else might be lurking about. Suddenly that one secret elevator in SOTN seems less random, and more of a deliberate reference. I guess that shouldn't be too surprising, given the Rondo/SOTN team's obviously deep appreciation of oldschool Dracula obscurities... I'm still caught off-guard by stuff to this day, like recently learning the secret second floor of SOTN's Keep was (minor Rondo+CV1 secret)
Didn't know about that either, but then again, I haven't played too much of either game.
I love when developers go through the trouble of putting this little details/references, though. I think it shows that they really have a healthy amount of love for the series, and aren't just going through the motions.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

If I remember correctly, the original Ganbare Goemon has similar treasure reveals by jumping in certain spots.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Oof, I'm a bit behind on the last few pages. Meant to say - nice post for a very nice haul, dingsbums! I've had my eye on Seicross lately... Nichibutsu need more of my attention in general.
dingsbums wrote:So I finally picked up quite a few FC games that were on my "want list" for a long time :) .
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SFC Kiki Kaikai, one of gaming's most undeniable brilliances. Congrats. :cool:
Alien Syndrome: Really nice overhead action title, I hate some of the latter bosses / patterns but nothing unfair; funny enough the FC port is better as the ports on the Sega consoles.
I've been curious about Sunsoft's FC Sega ports (Fantasy Zone too, as Brian mentions). Always tricky to tell when they were on their A-game from a distance, with their earlier years... but I really like the look of both. I thought Fantasy Zone's screen edge riding was a bit unnerving, but tbh the AC game itself kinda suffers from that to a degree.
Dragon Scroll: I always dismissed this game because I thought it was a RPG (I'm not that big on RPGs with a few exeptions) but in fact it's a nice overhead action title. It's from Konami, it's JP only and you can still get it for cheap 8) . Awesome music, nice graphics and tight gameplay = classic Konami.
Oh damn, I seem to recall making this exact mistake very recently. :o Thanks for the tip, must check this out. Somewhat in the same vein, I've been playing Varie's Grand Master lately - has a definite charm with its militant action focus, but also some serious rough edges. Sprite dropout is often a far deadlier liability than the hordes of enemies it accompanies.
Dragon Fighter: I never knew it was developed by Natsume but when I knew I wanted it. It's not as polished as the other Natsume FC sidescrollers but it's still a solid game.
Make sure to try out the Hard mode - it really brings out the game's best. I've long appreciated DF, but it's only now that I really rank it as an equal partner to Kage and Solbrain. It's still an inherently simpler hack/slash game, but it totally revels in that (and its HENSHIN mechanic).
Cross Fire: I always wanted this game. It's no Contra but for what it is, it's a pretty good game but though as all hell. Still have to play it more 8) .
Congrats, I remember you posting about CF a couple years back. :smile: I have to spend some more time with it myself - it never quite hooked me, but brazenly macho army style is always a +1 with my FC action games. Not coincidentally I recently picked up Ikari III - deceptively good! - and Datsugoku - killer hit mechanics, lackluster stage design, ultimately just about ok but not really worth the steep pricetag... so manly, tho. :3
Wanpaku Yume Bouken (Duck Tales): This is obviously a nostalgic one but; the game is still fun and that's what it boils down to in the end :) .
Among the model examples of an "easy sidescroller," imo. It's rarely threatening and it lacks a proper finale, but the bouncy handling is addictive and the stages are absolutely wall-to-wall with enemies to clobber, treasure to grab and pits to vault. Supremely lovable game to take for a Best End spin now and then.

I thought I might want its sequel, but the drop-off in said pace is brutal... only the super-secret Good End stage approaches the seamless romps of the first game. There's a distinct art to making an entertaining easier game, as these two illustrate.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

BIL wrote: I thought I might want its sequel, but the drop-off in said pace is brutal... only the super-secret Good End stage approaches the seamless romps of the first game. There's a distinct art to making an entertaining easier game, as these two illustrate.
I actually prefer the level design of the GB version of Duck Tales 2 and the price (last I checked) won't break your wallet like the NES version.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

__SKYe wrote:Overall, I feel like CV3 is easier than the CV1
Gonna have to respectfully disagree with you :mrgreen:
(I know you haven't reached the end of the game yet.
I think you will change your tune once you reach it :mrgreen: )
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

__SKYe wrote:She also ducks to avoid the Cross.
In PSX Chronicles, she no longer ducks which makes the fight easier with cross. Keep fighting!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Since there's talk of the Disney Afternoon Capcom games for YOUR Nintendo Entertainment System© : this just made me remember that I used to rent Chip & Dale Rescue Rangers like crazy when I was a kid, for some reason. I was kinda obsessed with the game, it really clicked with me.
I think I especially appreciated being able to chuck big boxes and other huge items that are 4 times as big as your character, right on your poor enemies skull. lol. I couldn't help but to like that. Also the blocky/kinda simple bg/items designs where very easy to read, to scan visually, and I think that made the game very appealing to kids. And of course, having all bg element/items being gigantic compared to your character(because of how very tiny you are in scale), that theme is always charming on the design front. (not talking level-design here, but purely aesthetic-wise)

Gotta play that one again! It's been ages. I'm sure the controls are tight as hell(wouldn't expect less from Capcom in a Mega Man-esque title), and level design as gotta be at least adequate too, right? Right?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Was replaying the first RR myself recently - loved it as a kid too (the chipmunk's-eye-view concept really stuck with me as well). You're absolutely right about the controls and overall handling, they're impeccably responsive. For stage design and pace I'd put it in the same ballpark as Ducktales - it's an easy game, probably easier actually, but a very likable one to scamper through. Lots of varied stage design and little to no dead air. It's got co-op too, maybe the best game for hitting your buddy in the back of the head with a crate outside of River City Ransom.

And yeah, the scene design is charming as ever. :smile: I'm not particularly drawn to it myself at the moment, but it's certainly good at what it does.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

I remember the second Rescue Rangers being not as good as the first one. It's not bad, but I remember something about the game feeling less inspired than the first. Less metal blocks is one thing I remember. It has been awhile since I have played it, though.

Edit: After watching a video, it looks like the first game has much better music, as well.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Both Rescue Rangers games are essentially the same, but I'd agree that the second one isn't really up to par. There's no map screen, and the game is even easier than the first one, which already suffers from being way too easy. The boss battles are a little more interesting, but not by much, and it's pretty much mitigated by the horrible final boss (basically it just stands there, doing almost nothing to hurt you, waiting for the occasional opening that lets you damage it once).

As surmised, the controls are amazingly tight, and they work well as co-op games, but the stage designs in both games are generally lackluster, and with no real threats at any point, they feel kind of pointless to play. Ducktales is a lot more fun despite also being fairly easy, and that one they at least had the decency to improve on for the sequel.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Immryr »

FinalBaton wrote:
__SKYe wrote:Overall, I feel like CV3 is easier than the CV1
Gonna have to respectfully disagree with you :mrgreen:
(I know you haven't reached the end of the game yet.
I think you will change your tune once you reach it :mrgreen: )
You have remember he's playing the jp version of cviii, which is a fair bit easier than the us one.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Is it really that noticeably easier?
I prefer the Japanese version too, and I think it's definitely harder than the first game (if only because it's longer), though I think the difficulty of both games is severely overrated. Almost every Castlevania challenge can be mitigated by simply knowing what to do beforehand.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Sumez wrote:Is it really that noticeably easier?
Grant can't throw his (main weapon) dagger in CVIII.
Tougher damage scale on bosser and some enemies in CVIII.
Bosses can clip through platforms that are safe spots in AD.
Some tougher checkpoints in CVIII.
Some items rarer in CVIII.
...et al.

So yes, the difference is noticeable. Just play them back to back.

Almost every Castlevania challenge can be mitigated by simply knowing what to do beforehand.
That's every videogame ever.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

While the difference is noticeable I don't feel like these things make such a big difference. Most of it is very situational, and I don't even use Grant personally.
I'm sure the damage scale makes a difference, but I'd have to play them back to back to really tell. I don't recall them as being vastly different. At least not to the point where one version would be easier than CV1, and the other harder.
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Post by CIT »

Sumez wrote:While the difference is noticeable I don't feel like these things make such a big difference. Most of it is very situational, and I don't even use Grant personally.
I'm sure the damage scale makes a difference, but I'd have to play them back to back to really tell. I don't recall them as being vastly different. At least not to the point where one version would be easier than CV1, and the other harder.
Well, you also don't see a difference between the music of the Super Famicom version of Ys III and that of the other versions, so go figure. :P
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Don't turn into Strider77, man :P

PS: Ys3 soundtrack is PC Engine or bust
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Perikles »

Castlevania III is without so much as a modicum of doubt tremendously harder than Akumajou Densetsu. Some of the more dangerous bosses in the former (like the sea serpents) are almost harmless in the latter, you can frequently find the most powerful subweapons in AD (making Sypha even better since you will be able to constantly use her homing balls even after a death) while you have to work with fairly stinted resources in CVIII and the overall parameters are also in your favour in AD (I believe that both Death and Dracula in AD die a lot faster if you use the aforementioned homing spheres compared to CVIII, for example). Granted, an expert player will be able to adapt without further ado, but the differences are rather significant.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

I'll be sure to give the US version some more tries some time in the future. I just love AD so much. Just going without the original soundtrack feels unimaginable to me.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Immryr wrote: You have remember he's playing the jp version of cviii, which is a fair bit easier than the us one.
Ah! good call. I didn't remember that
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

I really need to replay Ducktales. I played it a couple of times as a kid, don't remember if rented it or another kid had it, but I haven't played it since then! pretty sure that's a cardinal sin. lol
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

That's fine :P
Ducktales is a good game, but it's really overrated. At least it has that unmistaken Capcom polish and tight controls.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by __SKYe »

As for Akumaju Densetsu, perhaps saying that it is easier than the first was wrong, but I still don't feel that it is harder either. And even the longer stages don't make the game feel harder as well (just longer, though I guess it provides more chances to screw up).
Of course this is taking into account that I haven't reached past Death yet, and took both the upper routes (Grant and Sylpha), though I've been playing solo-Belmont, which also makes comparing both games a bit easier.

Perhaps where I noticed a bigger difference, is in the bosses, as although CV1 can be very easy if you abuse some sub weapons, several of them (even before Death and Dracula) are a challenge if you play without sub-weapons, while in Akumajou Densetsu I've beaten all of them with the whip only, and none of them were really that hard (again, until Death).

Then, of course, there's the matter of CV3 vs AD, but I've only played the JP version yet. The music in the JP version is far superior though. :wink:

I've played another run, and lost yet again against Death.
It's cool that you can't cheese him with HW here, since he rarely stands on (or is close to) a platform, and he moves around a lot, so you can't kill him quickly with the Cross either (at least to my knowledge).
Perhaps not the most efficient tactic, but I'm having a good time trying to beat him with the whip, though. Managed to take about half his health before dying so far.

I found rather amusing, when on my first time here (on the last stretch before Death), I immediately noticed that something was odd, because there were lots of candles, a dandy falling bridge, perfect for some RNG driven enemy massacre, and yet there was nearly no danger here (bar the sole enemy on the bridge).
It's like the developers are taking pity on you, letting you have a brief respite, because they know shit will hit the fan very soon. :lol:

Also, the part of Death's fight that really bugs me:

Image

Those vertically misplaced blocks are really annoying. Why didn't they go with simmetry here. :wink:

-----

I found it curious that they put the word "Castlevania" on AD's map screen, since I thought they ever only used it for the overseas releases (back in the day, anyway).

Image
copy-paster wrote:In PSX Chronicles, she no longer ducks which makes the fight easier with cross. Keep fighting!
I've finally beat her, on the 10th attempt or so. 8)
She doesn't just duck the Cross, she ducks everything, standing whip included, so when she's in garbage throwing mode, pretty much the only way you'll hit her with anything, is to close in with a jump whipping, so that you'll hit her as she's jumping.

I still stood by my first strategy of waiting for her to run out of stuff to throw, so that she'll grab the clock's hand and fight in close quarters, and won that way.
As it turns out, she'll indeed chuck the round edges of the clock, but only 3~4 of them, so you just have to remember that she'll still throw a few more things when it looks like there's nothing else to be thrown. After getting her to take the clock's hands, I won on the 2nd attempt.
While she's somewhat easy to beat in this mode, she'll occasionally lunge and strike you, which is very hard to dodge, and that's how I lost on the 1st attempt.

Still, I'll reaffirm that she's my favourite boss fight on this game, and definitely one of the most fun in the series, at least from the games I've played.
It's also interesting that she mark the point where bosses become quite hard to beat. Up until her fight, bosses are pretty easy, though you can lose the occasional life by falling from the raft in the 2nd stage's boss.

Now I've found my new nemesis, the Tower of Dolls on the next stage. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

__SKYe wrote:I found it curious that they put the word "Castlevania" on AD's map screen
One of my favourite bits of oldschool Dracula trivia, that. :smile: I've warmed up a lot to the Castlevania name over time, particularly after noticing it appeared in the JP releases that far back (it would be adopted much later for Japanese PS2/GBA, of course, though that practice eventually died a death). It would roughly equate to "the castle beyond the forest," AFAIK, which has a simple elegance I like. I still prefer the unbeatably iconic Dracula name but CV is cool.

And so is my pet name Captain BDSM Must Whip Vampire Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

I feel like Diet Go Go should be super fuckin easy but I keep screwing up ;_;

Also those long-ish bonus stages give you an extra life and lull you into a false sense of security so that on the next stage you just nonchalantly jump into an enemy
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

Sumez wrote:Both Rescue Rangers games are essentially the same, but I'd agree that the second one isn't really up to par. There's no map screen, and the game is even easier than the first one, which already suffers from being way too easy. The boss battles are a little more interesting, but not by much, and it's pretty much mitigated by the horrible final boss (basically it just stands there, doing almost nothing to hurt you, waiting for the occasional opening that lets you damage it once).
I wouldn't say they are the same. Game play is very similar, but 2 is a lot less inspired. Not as much thought put to special blocks, vastly inferior music, an odd font, and the graphics seem oddly inferior (especially when it comes to some of the smaller bosses).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by __SKYe »

Finally beat Death in AD after a few more tries.
In my experience, HW is useless, Cross not much better either (though with x2 or x3 it might be a different story), and I had the best luck with the Axe (x2 on my winning fight).
Was really surprised to see that Death has a second form in this game! I guess this marks the first time that Death gets one, in the series?
Won on the first try (after reaching his 2nd form), as this form is pretty simple, and definitely easier than his 1st form.

Also, while Death's stage in CV1 isn't as hard as it appears, his stage in AD is quite a bit easier in comparison.

The next stage is much harder in comparison, and I'm still going through it.
BIL wrote:One of my favourite bits of oldschool Dracula trivia, that. :smile: I've warmed up a lot to the Castlevania name over time, particularly after noticing it appeared in the JP releases that far back (it would be adopted much later for Japanese PS2/GBA, of course, though that practice eventually died a death). It would roughly equate to "the castle beyond the forest," AFAIK, which has a simple elegance I like. I still prefer the unbeatably iconic Dracula name but CV is cool.
Yeah, didn't know theinclusion of the Castlevania moniker into the JP releases went this far back. I knew about the GBA games (not the PS2 though), but you're right, even their attempt to change the JP titles to Castlevania instead of Akumajou Dracula didn't last long (3 games total, I think?).
I guess the Japanese are much more used to the AD, after all, that is the original title.
BIL wrote:And so is my pet name Captain BDSM Must Whip Vampire
And quite an apt name:
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Look at all that leather, the whip, the high-heeled pointed toe boots and the obligatory fur. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

__SKYe wrote:I guess this marks the first time that Death gets one, in the series?
Yep! Quite a cool one too - nothing spectacular mechanically, but it looks rad, the booming guffaw he borrowed from the password screen is a cool touch, and it's good simple fun hopping over his looming mug. I like how it's mirrored across the screen, evil n' trippy.
The next stage is much harder in comparison, and I'm still going through it.
Among the finest trials of the traditional series, imo - though I could understand anyone who detests stairbound action not liking it. Also "Riddle" is an absolute epic barn-burner of a track. I loved hearing it again in Order of Ecclesia; I don't think it'd ever been revisited in the almost twenty years prior.
Yeah, didn't know theinclusion of the Castlevania moniker into the JP releases went this far back. I knew about the GBA games (not the PS2 though), but you're right, even their attempt to change the JP titles to Castlevania instead of Akumajou Dracula didn't last long (3 games total, I think?).
Indeed, Lament of Innocence's JP release is straight-up titled "Castlevania," full stop. Kinda funny, considering the previous time the series went 3D on N64 it also defaulted to that name - albeit in the West only.
And quite an apt name:
Spoiler
Image
Look at all that leather, the whip, the high-heeled pointed toe boots and the obligatory fur. :lol:
My favourite Berumondo BDSM pose is CV Adventure 2's JP boxart - older, wiser, but no less hornier! :mrgreen:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by CIT »

__SKYe wrote:even their attempt to change the JP titles to Castlevania instead of Akumajou Dracula didn't last long (3 games total, I think?).
Actually Lords of Shadow and Lords of Shadow Mirror of Fate were also called Castlevania in Japan, only for the series to revert back to Akumajo Dracula yet again for Lords of Shadow 2. :roll:

Basically, the naming convention in Japan is a huge mess. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

I find it interesting that the JP version of Bloodlines adopts the EU title for the MSX game, "Vampire Killer". I remember one magazine incorrectly listing the PCE Dracula X as "Vampire Killer Dracula X".

Japangamestock has listed Akumajou Densetsu FC as "Castlevania Legend".
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