Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Obscura]

Definitely avoid the lower/block mania route on your first time through either CVIII or Akumajou Densetsu. Head up at every opportunity (the first is an optional stage to get Grant, who's agilityx1000/Rockman jumping to Sypha's boss smasher). Lower route is punishing, aesthetically very monotonous (swamps, crypts, catacombs, caverns, dungeon), and you may be tempted to recruit Alucard who's not great. The upper route is by no means EZ MODO but it lacks the tedious falling/melting block gimmicks and punishingly long stages, plus it has more colourful locales and generally better tunes.

I agree with this entirely (not least of which because Sypha is by far most fun NPC to use), but I will say that if you go top, you miss the best stage in the game and possibly the best stage in the entire Castlevania series (the awesome Sinking Atlantis level).

<3 CVIII. Oddly, I much prefer the US version; I even like its music more (Akumajo Densetsu's soundtrack ends up sounding really busy, IMO).

[BIL]

I always forget the optional sunken city! Definitely a more interesting post-Alucard path than yet more crypts, with its unique boss and escape setpiece. Also the only opportunity to hear "Aquarius" on the lower route.

Speaking of AD versus CVIII, oh wow. Definitely preferring the latter. US Grant's a little monster. Stab comes out and recovers quicker than Trevor's whip, and hits mid-height. Axe armors' random-height axes get auto-stuffed by standing stab, leading to the amusing scenario of little guy bringing down hapless goliath in a knifing flurry. Drawback is of course range; Dullahans and whip skeletons are a bigger problem for a subweaponless Grant than Trevor. That and low DEF making Grant eminently swattable. Reckless fun!

There are lots of great FC sword-slashing sidescrollers, of course, but this is the first really great stabbing one I can recall. The difference is subtle yet palpable. ¦3

Would never ditch Akumajou Densetsu, being an import and Dracula geek and adoring the furious clarity of certain VRC6-augmented tunes like Clockwork and Riddle. But I already regarded the NES rev as a hair superior for its skull-crushing loop, now even moreso for a more interesting Thief/Ninja/agile fragile stabber character.

[cicada88]

How many total route variations are there in CVIII?

[BIL]

Handy map from Arcade Gear:



After the first stage, you have the option of heading up to the clock tower for a chance to recruit Grant, or down and straight into the forest. Either option will lead you to the second half of the forest. From there the path splits into upper and lower. Sypha's on the upper route, Alucard is lower.

The upper route has no deviations. The lower has just one, immediately after Alucard. You can detour through the sunken city, or stick to the current path through the crypts. Either way you'll end up in the castle's lower entrance.

Block 8 (entryway) is where the upper and lower paths rejoin. No more deviations after that - the final three stages are mandatory.

Note that on the second loop you keep your current partner and can play any stages you like (note also you can't switch partners on your second run through, despite still fighting Grant and Alucard as before).

[cicada88]

Thanks for the diagram and explanation. Looks like basically 2 main branches with 2 optional variations (6 total variations)

[blackoak]

Cool to hear you guys talk about CVIII. I beat it every which way as a kid, and never thought it was too hard. Ages 8-10, I spent a few summers with Grandma in a remote cabin north of Spokane, Washington, and CVIII was a near-daily ritual. Recently I played Akumajou Densetsu and loved playing with Grant. Easier, yes. But still really fun imo...

Last night I fired up Ex-Ranza. Not really a platformer per se, but something I had never tried before. Took a few tries to get the hang of things, but I'm liking it a lot so far. The controls put me off at first, but as with many games, once you get the hang of it, the design really opens up. Even second tier games have a lot to offer if you meet them on their terms... something I would like to teach my friends, hehe.

[Ed Oscuro]

Grant vs. Scrooge McDuck...oh man

Er anyway, the one thing I find tricky with Grant is getting around corners without dropping off. It's neat to be able to squeeze into one-block-high areas.

Great sources on the Great Development Rush of '93, BIL, I guess my insistence on pedantry has paid off in an unforeseeable fashion, for once!

[BIL]

Last night I fired up Ex-Ranza. Not really a platformer per se, but something I had never tried before. Took a few tries to get the hang of things, but I'm liking it a lot so far. The controls put me off at first, but as with many games, once you get the hang of it, the design really opens up. Even second tier games have a lot to offer if you meet them on their terms... something I would like to teach my friends, hehe.

Ranza was among the accursed handful of games that finally got me into pre-32 bit consoles. One of my favourite sidescrollers. There's nothing like it elsewhere, not that I know of anyway. That Wolfteam interview you translated a while back confirmed what I'd suspected about Toshio Toyota (Granada/Ranza director); an arcade gamer with a craftsman's attention to fine detail and "extensive enemy algorithms." There's a lot to observe and exploit in that game's stages and enemy behaviours, along with the player mech and its huge arsenal.

Do note the hardest (and easiest) difficulties are hidden in the NTSCJ version - you need to hit "ABC" three times quickly in the options menu to reveal them. You also need to know how to super jump, to make it over a few particularly massive gaps exclusive to the higher difficulties. I'm 99% sure the Japanese manual mentions it but supposedly the US one doesn't. It's crouch->df->up, like in a lot of Capcom/SNK fighters.

Also, don't underestimate the usefulness of a good kick in the chops!

Er anyway, the one thing I find tricky with Grant is getting around corners without dropping off. It's neat to be able to squeeze into one-block-high areas.

Wall-clinging should've definitely followed NG1's example. Jump onto the wall to stick -> unstick only when jump is pressed again. Cornering over pits is terrifying, unfortunately. :[ I do think it's kinda neat how if you're right at the edge of a block, you can hit [down] and climb straight onto its side, and likewise clamber up single-block "staircases" without jumping. Hardly worth the annoyance of autostick and outright hazard of auto-unstick, though!

[cicada88]

So I decided to go through all the Capcom Disney NES games, mostly for the first time. I did own & complete CnD Rescue Rangers 1 as a kid, and I had rented DuckTales at least once back in the day.

I started with Rescue Rangers 1 & 2. They were both enjoyable, but way too easy for lasting appeal. I guess there is potential there for a perfect no-miss run with all items uncovered. The first game, at least, seems to have a bunch of hidden items (1-ups etc) that are superfluous due to the game's absence of difficulty. I didn't notice these extras in the 2nd game, but maybe they were just buried in trickier spots. The star of the show here is most likely co-op which I didn't get the chance to try.

I played Adventures in the Magic Kingdom. This game pretty much sucked, but the 2 platforming stages were decent. Gameplay is just kind of all around buggy with tons of flicker and slowdown incongruent with Capcom's 8-bit output as a whole.

Next was The Little Mermaid. This game is surprisingly well done with some good graphics and very solid controls / gameplay mechanics. Girly theme and extreme ease kill it, but like Rescue Rangers finding all the hidden items could extend the replay value for those motivated enough. Worth 1 play through.

Next on the list was Mickey Mousecapade. Brian C. informed me that this was actually a Hudson developed game and that Capcom was merely the publisher outside of Japan. I played it for 10 minutes and decided to give up, but I might revisit it later. It just seemed flickery and annoying. It is interesting to note that there are apparently pretty significant differences between the original Famicom release and NES version.

TaleSpin is the game I am on now. For the first 20 minutes, I thought this game was absolute trash. It's actually grown on me after I stopped trying to play it as a straight STG and more of a platform/STG hybrid. This game actually has some pretty intense boss fights and a ton of hidden items, extra lives, and bonus stages to find. There is some really good sprite-work in this game too. I haven't 1 CC'd it yet, but I will try to string one together in the near future. Could be fun to try to do a perfect no miss run with all the bonus stages. Uncovering *every* hidden piece of fruit might be too much of a chore (there's LOTS), but that's another option.

After I finish up TaleSpin, I need to tackle the 3 duck games (DuckTales 1,2 and Darkwing Duck). I never owned any of these as a kid, and the only one I've ever even played is DT1. Saved these for last as they seem to have a pretty supportive fan base.

[Ed Oscuro]

Cool writeup - and I have another Hudson-developed game for your list: Beauty and the Beast. EU-only (and with hardcoded 50Hz refresh). Some undumped 60Hz prototypes exist, apparently.

I've played a spot of the Genesis / MD game in that franchise, as memory served it was a very basic run-and-jump (I'm not sure "platformer" is accurate) not worth the time. The NES version may well be different though.

[prototector]

... According to that Contra fan site run by a shmups forum member (contrapedia.wordpress), the game actually continues to increase in difficulty up to 99 play throughs. I find this somewhat hard to believe, but I might try to test it.

It also claims you can only get 1 extend per loop starting with the 5th loop. Maybe they were referring to the NES version, but this is definitely *NOT* true on the Famicom version. Extra lives were given normally even on the 6th loop.

My mistake; it was written based on a rough memory. The detail about the extra life is that it begins to occur once you reach a certain score (it's a very large number that I don't know specifically). The mention of the fifth loop was due to the fact that the change happened during that run; but it wasn't necessarily due to that factor. This was only tested on the NES version, but I'd imagine it probably applies to the Famicom version as well.

The increase in difficulty, for much later runs, is seen primarily in the strength of certain enemies. This is particularly true for enemies on the last stage, as minimally incremental as the differences are. I'd imagine that other variables, such as spawn and attack rate reach a maximum much earlier.

[cicada88]

... According to that Contra fan site run by a shmups forum member (contrapedia.wordpress), the game actually continues to increase in difficulty up to 99 play throughs. I find this somewhat hard to believe, but I might try to test it.

It also claims you can only get 1 extend per loop starting with the 5th loop. Maybe they were referring to the NES version, but this is definitely *NOT* true on the Famicom version. Extra lives were given normally even on the 6th loop.

My mistake; it was written based on a rough memory. The detail about the extra life is that it begins to occur once you reach a certain score (it's a very large number that I don't know specifically). The mention of the fifth loop was due to the fact that the change happened during that run; but it wasn't necessarily due to that factor. This was only tested on the NES version, but I'd imagine it probably applies to the Famicom version as well.

The increase in difficulty, for much later runs, is seen primarily in the strength of certain enemies. This is particularly true for enemies on the last stage, as incremental as the differences are. I'd imagine that other variables, such as spawn and attack rate reach a maximum much earlier.

Thanks for the information. I wonder how long the alien spitting mid boss in the final level takes on loop 99....it must be insane as it got pretty intense by loop 6

[BrianC]

It has been awhile since I played Mickey Mousecapade, but I remember liking it quite a bit. It definitely has that early Hudson feel to it, and even has a life bar similar to the first Adventure Island. The JP version has some interesting differences. They changed most of the Alice in Wonderland and non-Mickey Mouse related Disney characters in the NES version, though Alice was still kept in.

Edit: The changes made to Mickey Mousecapade are just odd. Some of the changed characters are also from non-Mickey Disney cartoons (the US version changed Tweedledee and Tweedledum to the country bears and also has the Asian stereotype mushroom from Fantasia). One thing I like is how the US version has Pete. Not sure if I like him or Hook better, though Pete certainly fits the MM theme and the theme of the stage.

[cicada88]

It has been awhile since I played Mickey Mousecapade, but I remember liking it quite a bit. It definitely has that early Hudson feel to it, and even has a life bar similar to the first Adventure Island. The JP version has some interesting differences. They changed most of the Alice in Wonderland and non-Mickey Mouse related Disney characters in the NES version, though Alice was still kept in.

Edit: The changes made to Mickey Mousecapade are just odd. Some of the changed characters are also from non-Mickey Disney cartoons (the US version changed Tweedledee and Tweedledum to the country bears and also has the Asian stereotype mushroom from Fantasia). One thing I like is how the US version has Pete. Not sure if I like him or Hook better, though Pete certainly fits the MM theme and the theme of the stage.

I'll probably attempt it later, but I was really playing these because they were 8-bit Capcom developed games that I hadn't really explored, not because they were Disney themed.

I finally 1 CC'd TaleSpin, and I've moved on to DuckTales. I am still getting used to the mechanics, but the game is actually kicking my ass so far despite it being considered an easy game.

[BrianC]

I'll probably attempt it later, but I was really playing these because they were 8-bit Capcom developed games that I hadn't really explored, not because they were Disney themed.

I know, but I just wanted to mention I liked the game and I thought the differences were interesting enough to mention. It's not like this is a Capcom Disney game only topic (though those games are certainly deserving of one). I do feel Capcom and Sega made some of the best Disney licensed games, though. I also wonder how much Ducktales helped influence some other Disney games since the SMS Castle of Illusion especially borrows elements from it.

[cicada88]

I wasn't trying to silence your discussions just responding to it

[Ed Oscuro]

Adventures in the Magic Kingdom is difficult and poorly-organized, makes me wanna yell.

The Space Mountain thing seems to go on much longer than it should, and there's really no margin for error.

Continues don't seem to penalize you other than that you lose your stars and other inventory (but you keep keys).

The Pirates stage is just ugh - looks nice but lots of stuff is a pain to deal with, and I still don't know how I got my first batch of torches - and so is the haunted mansion. They don't really give you advance warning that you really have to haul ass to get through before the timer runs out!

[BrianC]

The most interesting thing about Adventures in the Magic Kingdom is that the same composer also did the music for Kingdom Hearts.

[cicada88]

Yeah, it pretty much sucks, but it's not so hard once you get the hang of it.

You get the torches about half way through the pirate level I believe, before you go down a elevator or stairway. You jump up and touch the candle on the wall and it gives you them. I'm not sure if there is an opportunity to get them earlier on but I didn't need to.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, you only get 5 at a time, probably in that section with the annoying skeletons (there's two or even three ladders, redundantly, in that section). I'll have to look again, if there's any chance to stock up by exploiting level transitions it probably pays to do so, because it looks like there's no time to do that in the haunted mansion. That said, that probably is overkill.

I like the idea behind the stages - the open plan (especially of the second half) of the pirate level is refreshing, as is the emphasis on avoidance. Unfortunately the enemy types make playing it "straight" annoying, and the powerup purchase menu allows you to cheese your way through sections, which is annoying. I don't find the difficulty well balanced here. Another case of a game that very nearly does things right but clutters up its game design with things that harm game balance decisions.

Speaking of underutilized potential, I think there's just one place where you will really want to push a barrel to get past (and that's the only way to hurt an enemy before finding the torches), but if you push it and follow along, you probably won't see it hit the enemy. Sadness

[cicada88]

1 CC'd DuckTales on Hard. Like TaleSpin, I started off kind of annoyed playing the game, but it grew on me quite a bit. I was on my last life with 1 hit left and had never been to the final boss before. The final boss was disappointingly easy; I beat on the first try without getting hit. Cool game though and I look forward to DT2 next.

[BrianC]

Good job with the 1cc. It's also worth trying to collect a certain amount of money since it has multiple endings, all tied to how much money you collect. I definitely agree on the final boss. The last boss in the sequel, while not hard, is much more challenging.

[Ed Oscuro]

The $0 ending...

[BIL]

Unca Scrooge's sagely advice always makes me think of BERUSERUKU's classic Golden Age arc. ¦3

What is best in life?





Very fond of the first FC Ducktales. Level design is tight, pogo mechanic is gold. Much more satisfying than its later, improbable appearance in Shin Shinobi Den. It doesn't have the ruggedly substantial difficulty of Capcom's later sidescrolling cutesie gem Little Nemo, but I do like whipping through every now and then.

The sequel is more developed with the "get doohicky A to unlock obstacle B" map-hopping, but I find it less charming for that.

[BrianC]

I actually like the level design better in the GB Duck Tales 2, though there's no boss for the hidden stage in that version. I thought the upgrades were a minor thing and I remember the hopping around being fairly minimal. It's not like the first game didn't have any areas where you had to find an item to progress.

[BIL]

Keys are ok. It's more the various cane upgrades for pulling heavy blocks, breaking iron blocks, etc. I just glaze over when I run across areas requiring that stuff, where the first game pretty much lets you bounce around with abandon.

In less kill or be killed stuff I prefer simplicity, particularly in cuter games (Demon's Blazon is blocktastic too, but it's such a MFN horror beauty I don't mind). I like arsebouncing stuff in Castle of Illusion but never really got into Quackshot and its various comedy firearms, for similar reasons.

Can't be too simple though. Sonic MD games wilt my boner. :[

[BrianC]

oh ok. I just found the cane upgrades to be something minor that didn't add or detract from the game. I still like the first game better, at least as far as the NES is concerned. As far as the GB games, I actually prefer the second one.

[cicada88]

Oh damn..multiple endings!?! the gift and the curse



*EDIT - To get the better ending I need to beat it with $10 million in cash. Unfortunately I only beat it with $9 million and change, so it's back the the drawing board. I probably won't go for the $0 secret ending until after I beat DT2 & Darkwing Duck.

[BIL]

btw, here is a Mickey & Donald game I'd jump all over

Spoiler

[Obiwanshinobi]

Very fond of the first FC Ducktales. Level design is tight, pogo mechanic is gold. Much more satisfying than its later, improbable appearance in Shin Shinobi Den.

Technically a vertical scroller and there is no visible pogo stick, but one of Pocket Bomberman modes is this kind of a platform game.