Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Jonny2x4]

Scanned DD1FC's movelist/profile pages, Jonny. A lot is from the NES one, but I figured the JP text might be of interest. As always, sorry if the quality's not great. All my gear sucks. 3; (though actually, Billy's slightly faded appearance in the "punch" illustration is like that on the page too, at least my copy).

Weird Abobo placement in M3 there! The superb illustration of Billy, Jimmy and Marion is unfortunately not presented ideally; it's faded into greyscale and heavily overlaid with story text. Although still not great, there's a more visible, text-less version here, off the top of my head. Otherwise there's just the manual front (monochrome version of box cover), and a cropped illustration of Billy from the box back (used for his profile in the NES manual). NES manual actually seems to have an illustration of Jimmy (character profile) not in the FC one.

Thanks for the uploads! I truly appreciate it.

The only exclusive artwork in the JP manual are the closeups of Billy and Jimmy on the character pages (and the former was also on Nintendo Power's coverage of the game on their premiere issue). The rest are all in the US manual, but the quality is not as good as the JP manual (likely due to the US manual having all the artwork reduced in order to fit as many in few pages). It's such a shame too, since the US manual (unlike the JP manual and flyer) has the enemy character illustrations without any text on them.

The image of the Lee brothers and Marian is on the promotional flyer for the game, along with the full body art of Jimmy Lee. There's actually a decent scan of the flyer on Disk-kun.com, which can be found on the following link.
https://disk-kun.com/handbills/fc/double-dragon
The quality of the artwork, even in this scan, is way more detailed than the U.S. manual. The U.S. manual makes Jimmy's hair look black, but here you can see it's clearly blond. It's because of these illustrations that I always wondered if they actually meant for Jimmy to be the blue guy and Billy to be the red guy and that somewhere along the line they mixed them up, but apparently the hair color switch only happened because of the palette limitations of the Famicom.

The plot summary is also much more thorough than the one in the manual, giving out Willy's full name (it's ウィリー・マッキー, which would be something like Willy Mackey or Mackie, depending on which romanization you prefer) and even explain what 双截拳/Sōsetsuken (the fictional martial art style practiced by the Lee brothers) is.

The weird thing about the move list on both, the JP and US manuals, is how the inputs they give for the last two moves are wrong. Both manuals claim that you need to press the d-pad left or right twice to perform either, the elbow punch or the spin kick, depending on the direction of your enemy, but in reality the elbow punch is simply performed by pressing A while the enemy is approaching from behind, while the spin kick replaces your roundhouse kick as a combo finisher when you reach max level. No doubt the instructions were written with a beta version in mind.

Moreover, Abobo's move list in the US manual mentions that "he likes to throw bombs" (obviously a mistranslation, since the only bomb-carrying enemies are the Williams), but the JP manual makes no mention of such a move. However, the JP flyer actually makes reference to a 原爆投げ/Genbaku Nage (Atomic Throw) move, which I'm guessing was the body toss he uses in the AC version that was cut out from the FC/NES port.

[FinalBaton]

Moreover, Abobo's move list in the US manual mentions that "he likes to throw bombs" (obviously a mistranslation, since the only bomb-carrying enemies are the Williams), but the JP manual makes no mention of such a move. However, the JP flyer actually makes reference to a 原爆投げ/Genbaku Nage (Atomic Throw) move, which I'm guessing was the body toss he uses in the AC version that was cut out from the FC/NES port.

That theory does make sense

[Sumez]

batman returns (nes) - nomiss clear - some late life konami goodness! highly different from the final fight-esque snes game and much more in line with feeling almost like a ninja turtles series entry. quirky methods of attack and a couple fun bonus stages with a killer soundtrack. if you like konami's tmnt games, i feel like this is a must play.

Wow, I had no idea Batman Returns for the NES was actually a decent game. I'll have to add this one to my shortlist now...

[Sumez]

Not to mention that Tetris had two US versions, with the unlicensed version actually being the better version.

I'm gonna assume that was either a funny joke, or you haven't tried the Tengen version.

[Obscura]

Eh? I've never played the Tengen version, but I've always heard it held up as the superior version, thanks to its 2P mode.

[BrianC]

Not to mention that Tetris had two US versions, with the unlicensed version actually being the better version.

I'm gonna assume that was either a funny joke, or you haven't tried the Tengen version.

why? I have played both versions and I'm honestly surprised by this comment. Nintendo NES version has better graphics, but lacks the 2p modes of the Tengen version. Tengen version also has nice music. Gameplay physics are similar to the Atari arcade version and it was one of the first versions with soft drop. I do like the Nintendo version, just not as well due to inferior options and music. BTW, I'm not the only poster here that likes the Tengen version better, and I'm perplexed that someone would think I was joking.

[Sumez]

You'd be pretty damn hard pressed to find a single Tetris player who'd claim the Tengen version has any single advantage over Nintendo NES Tetris. 2 player mode is a nifty gimmick, but it's not really a factor when comparing their qualities as a Tetris game.

The Tengen version isn't horrible, but it has a lot of very apparent issues. The rotations are weirdly "off-center" in a way that feels very counterintuitive. There's absolutely no feedback when clearing lines which makes it feel even more awkward. The randomizer is horrible - not as bad as GB or SNES Tetris, but bad enough that you can easily be robbed of a ton of points simply due to bad luck. Of course, that doesn't matter much at the end of the day, due to the game's worst feature - the speed plateaus at a very manageable level, which means you can easily play it forever, however requiring you to stack very low - which makes playing for any kind of score a super slow and painful grind, rather than the fun, fast paced and highly skill based romps a good game of Tetris can be.

The Nintendo version has its own issues that I'm not personally a fan of, but unlike the Tengen version they result in an interesting metagame that makes the game highly competitive on a high level, rather than the opposite.

The most important difference betwen the two is that Tengen Tetris is 100% redundant nowadays (there are a trillion objectively much better VS Tetris games out there), while Nintendo Tetris still offers an interesting challenge and exciting competitive gameplay that means skilled players are still playing it today, and competing in both monthly and annual tournaments.

[Steamflogger Boss]

NES Tetris forever, Tengen never.

[BrianC]

You'd be pretty damn hard pressed to find a single Tetris player who'd claim the Tengen version has any single advantage over Nintendo NES Tetris.

The most important difference betwen the two is that Tengen Tetris is 100% redundant nowadays

Did you really need to say this? I'm sure much of what your saying is accurate, but this didn't really need to be said. Going by what I heard elsewhere I doubt very much that the Tengen version is generally hated, as you say.

[Despatche]

This exchange is pretty funny actually, it's common understanding that the Tengen release is the superior game (whether it is or isn't), and some even joke about it being removed from market for that reason. Only if you hang around the TGM crowd do you really get any dialogue on what the two versions do and don't do. The Nintendo release is the better game, mind; the Tengen release falls apart under high-level play. The Nintendo release almost did, but by a stroke of luck it is the Game Boy version that became nearly unplayable instead.

Sumez is definitely crossing a line, of course. I can hate Musha all day and endlessly complain about its failings, but it doesn't stop people loving it. Same thing applies here. Particularly, the whole "there are better multiplayer games" bit is hilarious, because it's not really true, and because fan/indie attempts at Tetris multiplayer usually study the Tengen model anyway.

[BrianC]

Too bad Atari Games didn't keep the 10 line "goal" format of the AC version. I did play the Tengen Tetris (and even rented it BITD), but I didn't compare it to the Nintendo version in marathon play. I usually play Game B more. That said, both the GB and NES Nintendo versions held up better speed wise compared to Tetris DX, which caps early, if I remember correctly. One interesting thing about the Nintendo NES version is that a 2p mode was planned, but is unfinished. There is a hack that restores the 2p mode, though.

edit: I remember now. Tetris DX doesn't cap early. It just took a long time to get fast in Marathon mode. At least the timed and "game b" style modes are fun, though Game B works a bit different. It does have an odd quirk where you can rotate pieces up the left wall, though.

[Steamflogger Boss]

I probably have the most time in Tetris Plus on PS1 of all versions. It was just what I had for the longest time growing up.

I really like Tetris: The Grand Master Ace.

What is everyone's favorite Tetris?

[Jonny2x4]

That theory does make sense

It makes more than sense. There's actually unused sprite tiles of Abobo doing the body toss within the ROM data, but I was never quite able to assemble it to make it look right. Incidentally Bolo in DD2FC actually uses the genbaku nage technique.

On the topic of Tetris, how does the Famicom version compare to the Tengen and Nintendo releases? All this discussion on how overrated Tengen Tetris is reminds me of my feelings towards the SMS Double Dragon and how everyone usually overrates that version over the NES one because of 2P co-op (when it's worse in every other aspect).

[BrianC]

That toss is one of the few things I miss from the AC version, mainly because of the awesome growl Abobo makes when he does it. Good thing it's in Double Dragon Advance!

[mycophobia]

On the topic of Tetris, how does the Famicom version compare to the Tengen and Nintendo releases? All this discussion on how overrated Tengen Tetris is reminds me of my feelings towards the SMS Double Dragon and how everyone usually overrates that version over the NES one because of 2P co-op (when it's worse in every other aspect).

it's fucking awful. pieces spawn in random orientations and the control scheme is jacked up. play it for comedic value only

[BrianC]

On the topic of Tetris, how does the Famicom version compare to the Tengen and Nintendo releases? All this discussion on how overrated Tengen Tetris is reminds me of my feelings towards the SMS Double Dragon and how everyone usually overrates that version over the NES one because of 2P co-op (when it's worse in every other aspect).

it's fucking awful. pieces spawn in random orientations and the control scheme is jacked up. play it for comedic value only

Tetris 2 + Bombliss FC is much better, at least. More DQ style music than Russian stuff (for good reason), but the music is pretty good. This version of Bombliss has the infamous Pentaminos, which I'm not a huge fan of.

Not a huge fan of the FC version, but I have a soft spot for some of the early computer versions of Tetris with the insta-drop.

[__SKYe]

On the topic of Tetris, how does the Famicom version compare to the Tengen and Nintendo releases? All this discussion on how overrated Tengen Tetris is reminds me of my feelings towards the SMS Double Dragon and how everyone usually overrates that version over the NES one because of 2P co-op (when it's worse in every other aspect).

it's fucking awful. pieces spawn in random orientations and the control scheme is jacked up. play it for comedic value only

Tetris 2 + Bombliss FC is much better, at least. More DQ style music than Russian stuff (for good reason), but the music is pretty good. This version of Bombliss has the infamous Pentaminos, which I'm not a huge fan of.

Not a huge fan of the FC version, but I have a soft spot for some of the early computer versions of Tetris with the insta-drop.

The FC is pretty bad overall (the lack of soft drop makes it very tedious when you have to wait fr the piece to drop slowly in order to fit it in a gap), but what strikes me as the most annoying, is that they used the down direction as the rotation button, while leaving one of the action buttons unused (B button).

The GB Tetris would have been awesome, if not for the slow horizontal repeat speed, which makes playing it at the fastest speeds a chore, since you have to rapidly tap the direction button.

Tetris DX is awesome, though. One of my favourite classic Tetris games (pre Hold/random bag).

[Sumez]

Tetris 2 + Bombliss is a solid game. The randomizer is still -way- too random, which is a really odd decision following "Tetris 1", but I think it's a BPS developed game, while the other one was inhouse Nintendo, so that might be why. It's definitely much better than Tengen Tetris, and it has a 2-player mode too Delegating Tengen to the third place of non-homebrew Tetris games on the NES. The original Famicom Tetris is still slightly worse...

Sumez is definitely crossing a line, of course. I can hate Musha all day and endlessly complain about its failings, but it doesn't stop people loving it. Same thing applies here.

Except this is pretty much the first time I've head anyone seriously claiming that the Tengen version is better at anything. To me this sounds more like people thinking the dam stage in NES TMNT is impossibly hard because they have watched AVGN, than it sounds like Musha love.

The big thing about Tengen Tetris is that it was forced off the market due to the well known licensing issues, which has caused it to become a sought after collector's item (even if it's not particularly rare). That's the reason it's interesting and attractive, not because anyone thinks it's a better game.

I really like Tetris: The Grand Master Ace.

I'm a big TGM2 fan - any reason you prefer Ace? Or is it just for availability?

[BrianC]

Except this is pretty much the first time I've head anyone seriously claiming that the Tengen version is better at anything.

Yeah, the Tengen NES Tetris beats the hell out of the Nintendo Tetris, in my opinion.

See, it's not the first time. Seriously, search for Tengen Tetris on these boards and tell me how many posts you see that claim it's better (not saying this means it's better, just that I'm not the only person here who felt the Tengen one was better). I found 5 or 6 posters. It would also be nice if information was more accessible and the Tetris wiki for certain games wasn't so incomplete. Not to mention I had to search around the Tetris Concept boards to find any information about most non-TGM Tetris games there.

I still feel both the Tengen and BPS versions deserve credit for a choice of classical Russian music, though it's hard to say it's better when the NES version has Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies and the awesome music-2 (which is the only tune shared by the GB version).

[Sumez]

trap15 is just trying to be edgy, vouching for the supressed, unlicensed underdog, taken off the market by Nintendo's capitalism.
No one who actually plays Tetris would ever go for the Tengen version over Nintendo's Tetris. It's just unpleasant to play.

It would also be nice if information was more accessible and the Tetris wiki for certain games wasn't so incomplete.

The Tetris Wiki is pretty thorough. But you gotta remember to go to http://tetris.wiki - Most Google results will take you to a horrible Wikia page, which has a bunch of information from the good wiki, but lacks a ton of information.
On the other hand, tetris.wiki is down 50% of the time.

[Jonny2x4]

The Tetris Wiki is pretty thorough. But you gotta remember to go to http://tetris.wiki - Most Google results will take you to a horrible Wikia page, which has a bunch of information from the good wiki, but lacks a ton of information.
On the other hand, tetris.wiki is down 50% of the time.

Most wikis hosted on Wikia are pretty crap to be honest, since they just plagiarize the information from existing fansites and don't bother to even correct the mistakes or add new foundings.

There are some decent ones, like the Resident Evil Wikia, but even that's outdone by Project Umbrella. To be honest, I always felt the need to be make an MGS-equivalent of Project Umbrella, but never got around to starting it.

[BrianC]

trap15 is just trying to be edgy, vouching for the supressed, unlicensed underdog, taken off the market by Nintendo's capitalism.
No one who actually plays Tetris would ever go for the Tengen version over Nintendo's Tetris. It's just unpleasant to play.

It would also be nice if information was more accessible and the Tetris wiki for certain games wasn't so incomplete.

The Tetris Wiki is pretty thorough. But you gotta remember to go to http://tetris.wiki - Most Google results will take you to a horrible Wikia page, which has a bunch of information from the good wiki, but lacks a ton of information.
On the other hand, tetris.wiki is down 50% of the time.

Stop, just stop. I mentioned that there were 5 or 6 people. I don't want to link to every single post and even if I did, I would still get a "nobody really thinks this" post that you seem to be found of replying to my posts with. I looked up Tetris Tengen on multiple wiki and the info is a bit misleading to the point it makes it sound more like the arcade game than it actually is (the information is technically accurate, but the differences from the arcade aren't mentioned). No mention of the lower speed cap. The Tengen Tetris info on Tetris.wiki barely takes up a page.

Anyway, despite what I said about Tengen Tetris (which I now know I haven't played enough for an opinion), I do like the Nintendo Tetris quite a bit. I can vouch for it getting difficult since I played it quite a bit to practice for a tournament (though I was only 10 at the time). I also won second place. I like the GB Tetris despite its flaws mainly because I grew up on PC games and I'm used to tap inputs.

[mycophobia]

I would take NES Tetris over Tengen Tetris all day every day

[BrianC]

The Tetris Wiki is pretty thorough.

No info on Puyo Puyo Tetris and one page still refers to the series as "Puyo Pop".

I would take NES Tetris over Tengen Tetris all day every day

What's your point? You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm getting sick and tired of being "corrected" by Sumez half the time I post. It's especially annoying that he didn't even bother searching the boards and instead continued the same type of posts.

[mycophobia]

No offense meant. Just adding my two cents.

[BrianC]

No offense meant. Just adding my two cents.

I understand. Given the low speed cap of Tengen Tetris and how much more I played the Nintendo version, I have a feeling I will probably change my mind about the Tengen version after playing it more. Too bad the Nintendo NES version doesn't have Korobeiniki like the GB version. If I remember correctly, the BPS version has it on the title screen. Too bad that version isn't very good.

[mycophobia]

I loooove music 3 on NES Tetris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30eWWOvAzwg

Anyways we might be straying from the topic at hand lol...

[BrianC]

Back on topic, I have been playing Vs. SMB (both via home edition NES and Arcade Archives Switch). Made it all the way up to 6-3, which is one of the levels that made it to SMB2J. That level is insane. The infamous level with a blind jump off a paratroopa.

[Sumez]

What's your point? You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm getting sick and tired of being "corrected" by Sumez half the time I post. It's especially annoying that he didn't even bother searching the boards and instead continued the same type of posts.

I don't think you should take it so personally. Have I been "going after you" in other occations? If so, I apologize, I rarely notice who posts what when I reply to stuff, but if there's anything I strongly disagree with, that's why we have discussion forums.

However, you flat out claimed that Tengen Tetris was a clear-cut better game, it would be weird to not comment on that. Literally anyone who plays Tetris would.

That level is insane. The infamous level with a blind jump off a paratroopa.

You can force scroll the stage enough to see the koopa going up and down and still have enough space to make a running jump. You don't have to do it, but I always do it just to be safe.

[BrianC]

What's your point? You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm getting sick and tired of being "corrected" by Sumez half the time I post. It's especially annoying that he didn't even bother searching the boards and instead continued the same type of posts.

I don't think you should take it so personally. Have I been "going after you" in other occations? If so, I apologize, I rarely notice who posts what when I reply to stuff, but if there's anything I strongly disagree with, that's why we have discussion forums.

However, you flat out claimed that Tengen Tetris was a clear-cut better game, it would be weird to not comment on that. Literally anyone who plays Tetris would.

That level is insane. The infamous level with a blind jump off a paratroopa.

You can force scroll the stage enough to see the koopa going up and down and still have enough space to make a running jump. You don't have to do it, but I always do it just to be safe.

sorry about the outburst. Thanks for the SMB tip. I like how wind was added in the SMB2J version. There's more of a bounce off enemies in SMB2J too. I like the different playing Luigi, as well.