Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Sumez
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

BIL wrote:That made me say "OH HELL NAW" IRL!
when are you gonna start adding live commentary to your runs?

I'd watch the BIRRU twitch
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

when are you gonna start adding live commentary to your runs?
I've been mulling over getting a decent mic Image Definitely something I'd like to experiment with.

I'm itching to get home tonight and try grenading those 6-1 fuckers. Image This is the final frontier before I can start routinely stomping Saigo for 1LCs. 1CC is easy but 1LC remains unacceptably SCURRED on account of 6-1. 7-1 and the last boss are also nervy, but although they're genuinely dangerous spots, the nerves are mostly due to stage 6 remaining such a trial.

Not that a 1LC would ever be a trifling matter, at least at my current ability. I hope I never have to play this thing in some godawful SAW-esque predicament. :shock: Needless to say, performance anxiety nightmare material makes for a killer action game. Image

Or shurikening them, possibly. But that'd mean either getting 3 POWs for a tick higher rank, or going without POW grenades, which doesn't sound worth it. They're not as powerful 1:1, but the splash effect is supremely useful.

Speaking of rank, I wonder if the Shield temporarily boosts it. Would explain why you can't do this while it's active, you'll need to jump away:
Spoiler
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Was happy to note, after returning from much Metal Slug 1, that Saigo's firing caps work pretty much the same way as its special weapons'. Hammering the button like mad actually gets me a closer call than the above GIF, where I was only casually tapping.

Shock Troopers' cap is exactly the same. Mild tapping will cut out the noticeable gap in your bullet stream, there's no need to hammer the button for maximum effect. If a game's going to include tapping, I really like this approach. There's a small price to pay for max damage output (particularly in ST since it breaks up your aim lock), but it keeps well clear of controller/hand-wearing inanity.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by WelshMegalodon »

Live commentary I can take or leave, but I think audio commentary or even just text annotations over prerecorded footage would be nice.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Nah, I want to hear BIL react violently to games giving him bullshit.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Marc »

Sumez wrote:Nah, I want to hear BIL react violently to games giving him bullshit.
This :D
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

One of the superplays I admire the most is SAIGONONINDOU's PCB 1LC of his namesake, not just for his playing but also his commentating the whole thing, including the absolute nightmare of 6-1 (loved the "Coño!" at this bit :mrgreen:). He stops at several points to outline specific strategies, and even waits at the pit for KIZAISHI PART II's criminally unheard death drums to kick in!

Live commentary could definitely be a laugh with more roughhousing stuff like Ninja Gaiden and The Ninja Warriors Again/TNWOA. With real knife-edge ordeals like Saigo, I'm mostly mute until I buy the farm, ie taptaptaptaptaptapFUCK! Image See also Metal Slug, Shock Troopers, Rygar and other state-of-the-art killers where you can really fight to your last breath - with jankmaku like AC Dracula ("Simon's massive arse brushed a pigeon!") it's more of a mumbled "Fuck's sake." Remember, challenge means longterm value! Image Image

---

Bagged another no-miss with my Boney-sama strategy, which is starting to come together. This guy seemed like a god damn lottery a couple months ago, so I'm pretty happy. Still not 100% dominant, needing a final leap as he dies - but that too is gradually becoming more calculated, less panicked. Trick is to not move too early (the Shield glitch as he blows up is the most rewarding thing ever Image) My fastest clear yet AFAIK, @ ~11 minutes. As ever, not going for speed, but I'm not complaining either!

THE SHOWDOWN / IMMA GET U BONEY-SAMA (`ω´メ)
Spoiler
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He really fired a shit-ton of chasers this time around, but that can actually be used to your advantage. More stuff onscreen = less waiting to pincer you out of a jump. I think. Hopefully? Nervier than it looks judging that last jump - the bolts have a terrible mobility advantage over an airborne Tsuki. Also blimey, good job that POW carrier is holding a blue sphere. Would be an utter PITA dodging the rank-boosting red otherwise. Actually hang on. I'd just snipe him on arrival and scroll his sphere offscreen! Image

Also absolutely tore through 7-1 with the help of my buddies SLEEPY, DARK STEPS, THE DICK #1, THE SPIKE, THE CRACK and THE DICK #2. Then I damn near ate shit on the pit drop, relaying that list back in my head. :shock: I'm easily amused! I'll whip up a quick pictorial guide tonight, as 7-1 really is an utter bitch to learn, if not the absolute buffet of dicks that is the pit! Particularly digging my new strategy for not hitting the game's final POW carrier, using the ceiling. Draw your shadows up so you won't hit the bastard, then kill any incoming Ryuichis and haul ass through. It's a real landmine, that last POW - you don't want Boney-sama enjoying even a couple grenades' more HP than he already does.

I'd give a voiceover commentary a shot, but I cringe at the shitty Argos mic I was using for STG Weekly Gun.Smoke & Metal Black, SHAMEFUR clicking and popping. :oops:

Scored a solid 200k under my usual ~700k and thought for a sec "did I just hallucinate a no-miss?" But I think it's due to said tearing through 7-1, which meant less dead Ryuichis, causing me to just miss the final extend and subsequent 200k boost for six lives in stock. Not into Saigo's scoring at all, but I did think it was very cool that it recognises life stock that way. The leeching cancels it out, but oh well. My ideal scoring system for pure survival games would involve 1] a massive end-game multiplier for a no-miss and 2] a hearty clear time bonus, worth more than any leeching could provide. Gigantic Army does this, more or less.

---

Last Purple Ninja (actually the last in the game, period, as they're exclusive to st4-1!) put on a fine performance this time. I could swear Trapdoor Ryuichis are waiting on me more often lately. No problem hanging back and blowing them away before diving for the exit, but Mr. Purple Rain complicates matters with his infinite resurrection thing.

It's such a shame our friendship had to end
Spoiler
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Close but no cigar, you lousy prick! Image

Tried out 6-1 grenades, but although I got promising results, it didn't make it much less harrowing. Actually I was so frazzled I died a stupid death after when, standing on a shoal, a Monk on the sand clobbered me point-blank with his staff. They'll do that! They hate it when your Y-axis beats theirs and will cane you on sight - jumping when you're both on even footing merely facilitates this.

I think for now, the best approach to the absolute grand mal of stealth Ryuichis is to just treat every incoming Monk as a leap-over. Provided you execute a tight hop, you should have enough time to deal with any Ryuichi that runs in while you're airborne. Ain't pleasant but it works.

6-2 is starting to feel easy in comparison, mostly thanks to my new tactic of waiting on Ghost to materialise before pressing on. Previously I'd charge straight in, and hope he spawned well clear of that bumpy patch consisting of parallel shoals bordering a Launcher (so named by me for their lovely effect of catapulting Ryuichis and Monks who run into them). If Ghost materialises in the vicinity, you're gonna have to jump, which makes you easy pickings for Ryuichis and Monks alike.

So now I deliberately get him to follow me in, before flooring it past said bumpy bit. Once you're onto the rightmost shoal you're home free, barring truly dreadful RNG (typically the appearance of former tag champions HELL BULLDOZER, who are now second-fiddle to 6-1's STEALTH RYUICHI. which isn't a true tag partnership, so much as a glorified Trojan horse for that bitch Ryuichi to sneak up on you - can't deny their effectiveness, though!). Even if HELL BULLDOZER strikes, you'll have plenty of room to back up a bit, provided you've kept house with reverse chainsweeps (bunnyhop, attack, tap [up] - no elaborate quarter-circle motions required!). Note I leave Ghost alive after dispatching his air support - you don't want to kill Ghost outright in st6-2, he'll only pop up somewhere in front of you. Instead, haul ass and enjoy the gained ground.

---

As mentioned a few weeks back, it's my unshakeable headcanon that there's only one Ghost, and in life he had some connection to Tsukikage. I bet some bad shit went down prior to poor Tsuki becoming The Last Shinobi Standing. Look at the matching uniform! "BUT THATS TO SAVE ON COLOUR RAM" OMG STFU! Image He's been stabbed/shot repeatedly and has a wakizashi buried in his guts. Also, his hair is all fucked! That's how you'll end up too if you're not careful. Maybe it's a wraith? :idea: Come to think of it, he's a good four feet taller than everyone else. I bet he's not even human, just a bloated rotting apparition of someone conjured by Boney-sama's evil necromancing bullshit.

TBH, I kinda like it when a game not only has absolutely minimal in-medium story, but apparently no consistent extra-game story materials, either. Tsuki's forlorn look and the game's dire title are all you need to know things have gone to hell. That and the living corpse at the bottom of a thousand-foot sinkhole sending half of Japan out to murder him. Where is Saigo's arcade flyer, I wonder? (to clarify, the reverse side w/ instruction diagrams, as seen in Image Fight) :o Holy cow, can't find it anywhere. Did it even exist? I'm tantalised by the thought of something cute ala Tonma's, and maybe yet another conflicting story shard, in addition to the flyer being Generic Filial Revenge Tale #53562 and the game's ending going all SHIN GAROU DENSETSU.

---

Aha, well this is a start. Good ol' YAJ.

POP 1
Spoiler
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POP 2
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POP 2 (alternate shot)
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Poster doesn't seem to have a reverse side. I wonder if the POP art is all there is. Oh well, neat anyway. I like that it plays to the sprites' very slight cartoonish aspect, rather than going off-model like the (otherwise badass) PCE manual artwork. According to the poster text, this is a "HARD-BOILED NINJA STORY." :lol: With respect, I would call it a "NECRO-FEUDAL NINJA NIGHTMARE" tbh! Streetwise skull smasher VIGILANTE seems the more hard-boiled tale of IREM's 1988 scrolling violence set!

POP 2's kusarigama swing instruction is misleading BTW - it'll work, but you don't need to rotate the stick/pad at all. Just hit an adjacent direction, or even an adjacent diagonal, and you'll get the full rotation every time. Tap [up] after firing it to either side, for example.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by __SKYe »

Lots of good discussion, just wanted to quickly respond to this:
it290 wrote:Any Ninja Cop/Ninja Five-O love from you guys? I was lucky enough to snag a cart of it back in the day, but I'm getting back into it thanks to the MiSTer GBA core. This game is a fucking one in a million diamond.
A fine sidescrolling action game indeed, and among the finest on the GBA and in general. Don't forget to try hard mode -- that's where the game really shines.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Quite by accident, I think my latest Saigo 1LC (~11min) may be the fastest on Youtube. :o Wouldn't surprise me, in the least, if someone's managed under ten minutes. I can think of several spots where I stop advancing either for tactical reasons (Gold Ninja + Tree Monk tag team upon entering 3-2... killing them is easy, avoiding the former's POW drop isn't), or just for fun (waiting a tick for st2-2's Shield carrier to spawn, which lets you enjoy the awesome crunchy hit SFX while torching Hitodama). Come to think of it, you'd clear 2-2 quicker staying on the ground instead of using the branches ala "floor is lava" rules, but the latter is MUCH cooler obviously!

It'd become a lottery when going for absolute optimisation, there's some situations (particularly in 6-2) where I can't imagine a human player being able to keep the screen scrolling forward without getting a katana in the face. Also, keeping enemies to your back is great for survival in st6, but a "full house" tends to cause slowdown, and killing them frees up slots, who might appear in front and impede you... I notice there's no TASvideos run. Although I'm not into speedruns myself, as always, I'd love to hear their observations. (they have run the PCE version, which is generally excellent but can't match the intensity of AC st6)

Something I prefer in the PCE version, besides the 60hz refresh rate, is the aforementioned carrier spawning - they pop in right as you approach, letting you snatch up items without breaking stride. AC takes a second, which technically means you're under fire for a bit, but no half-decent player is going to bat an eyelash at the first half's enemy presence (flick of kusarigama will kill everything), and by the second where enemies really can overrun you I'd imagine you're either geared up, or hustling past those carriers (if keeping rank down).

---THEORY CORNER Image---

Finally got around to checking Saigo's default HS table (I don't think I'd ever cleared my scores until now):

Image

Man, JP staff rolls (or lack thereof). Breaks my heart. Image Assuming those are developer pseudonyms, I wonder if #2 "AKIO.PAPA" is the graphic designer Akio credited in Metal Slug 1 & 2 (MS3, yet again, doesn't have a staff roll EDIT: WRONG, followed up on this here). (Akio's site is great, BTW)

Besides the shared combo of nil enemy contact, massive carnage-causing hitboxes on your slashes and shots, and a chilling risk of sudden 1HKO (plus the similarly lax approach to tapping), I get a decided proto-Slug feeling from Saigo's sprite proportions. They're not on the outright cartoony end of the spectrum like Slug's, but compared to the game's most obvious forebears The Legend of Kage and Spartan X, they're definitely on that continuum.

Tsukikage stance + walk cycle (Saigo no Nindou)
Spoiler
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Marco Rossi stance + walk cycle (Metal Slug)
Spoiler
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The slightly crouched posture, poised arms, timing of footfalls and use of moving accoutrements (Tsuki's scabbard, Marco's backpack) to suggest momentum are familiar, too. Maybe it was a common influence, or maybe it's just a really efficient way to animate your armed, running character. Metal Storm's Storm Gunner is in very much the same mode, and its boss detonations are almost 1:1 copies of Saigo's, but I'm almost certain that game's sole artist was the great Utata Kiyoshi. Regardless, spending many hours on Saigo+Slugs lately, it's impossible to miss.

The excellent GamingHell claims Air Duel's "Tsumi-Nag" is Kire-Nag/Kazuma Kujo, credited in MS1 and a relatively visible IREM/Nazca figure. A long shot but perhaps #8 "SUMI" is a hint.

#4 "HIROKI" = "Hirokun" / "Tomohiro" ? (Major Title / MS1+2, assuming this is the same person) Getting really vague now, will leave it at that. Godspeed, whoever these guys were. Except for whoever thought up the ninja pit.

Probably some joker from the accounting dept mirite 3;

---

This minor bit of googling around also led me to the second piece of Saigo fanart I've ever seen (after the one at the foot of this post), and tbh, Tsukikage as a shota unnerves me even more than the game's most diabolical RNG mixups. :shock:
Spoiler
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I do like the katana/kusarigama dual-wield. I've read a little on the historical kusarigama, which tended to put a nasty lead weight on the end of the chain, for both bashing skulls/joints and entangling limbs/weapons, while the sickle was used for close-quarters slashing. I bet you could make a killer ninja sidescroller based around a closer interpretation of the weapon. One button for sickle, another for chain, a bit of dpad modification...

Apologies, Death's Gambit people, I don't know your game at all - but with a bit of hamfisted photoshopping, your artwork doubles as the best portrait of the forlorn avenger I've seen. Image

Image
TFW when you're the 最後の忍道
[Underworld Cherry Blossoms intensifies]

---

Oh hey. :o From a bit more light reading, Saigo's Ghost of Fugitive Warrior is drawn in the eponymous style of the Ochimusha. Right down to the fucked-up hair and grievous wounds!
Spoiler
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Image

Image
Hm. Maybe you're the real deal after all Mr. Ghost, that name is pretty suspect with all the weird shit going down though. Also your vanishing act creeps me out, shame it shat the bed when it really mattered in stage 6!
Last edited by BIL on Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by kitten »

uragggghhhh, i finally finished up getting a nomiss clear on ardy lightfoot. please click here for my video and the usual review in the description. i had been LOSING MY DAMN MIND trying to get a nomiss on this game!! i seriously spent more time on it than any other action game in recent history and it's a mediocre-at-best platformer that is piss easy to 1cc after your first run or two, but an absolute bastard to get a nomiss on because of some factors like dropped inputs and whatnot, which i go into more detail in via the review.

i want to point out some of the fuckawful hitboxing in this game -

Image

^ please notice that i hit the goober in that rotating barrel despite pec (your little goober that eats them) going NOWHERE NEAR HIM. seriously! there's nowhere at all in that arc that gets within a tile's distance of where he is and just... poof.

Image

^ a much less egregious example, but still a very stark showing of how bad the hitboxing is. watch the enemy literally just disappear on like the first frame i toss pec. ridiculous.

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^ and THIS is somehow a total miss that winds up with me getting hit!!!! amazing! superb!

- -

i'd like to gif more moments in this game to demonstrate what the fuck is up with this game's controls and hitboxing, but that would require not only a significant amount of labor but is something i never even fully understood even after playing this for an embarrassingly large period of time. there's random slowdown, your primary attack (pogo'ing) very frequently just drops inputs, things like turning or jumping after landing are extremely weird, etc. this game is a mess. a really cute, really charming mess, but a mess.

another weird thing about the game and what initially got me interested in it is this absurdity -

Image

left is the US version, middle is the JP version, right is the unreleased JP beta

the second boss of the game is a flying squirrel (or... fox with flying squirrel wings?) named cattry. you defeat her and she begs for forgiveness, but the second you turn away, she pushes her way through you and grabs the gem that you're after and leaps from her tree fort. unfortunately for her, a giant worm flies up out of the ground and swallows her, and then also swallows you as you go to follow her. halfway through the worm, you find what happened to her. in the us version, she's merely unconscious, but in the jp version, she's been digested clean down to the bone and is sitting under an acid drip that you watch melt a common enemy earlier in the stage.

this is... really fucking tonally dark and outright graphic for such a cute game! making things even more morbid though is that in the beta for the game, her sprite appears to be midway through digestion and it looks like an eyeball is hanging out of the skull via a thread. what the hell?? she's the only character to explicitly die (and not get revived - your girlfriend gets zapped by a lightning bolt and falls over during the final boss) in the game and it feels so weird and spontaneously cruel.

this game is above the total dogshit line that most mascot platformers fall under and well off from being a sonic clone, but it's - rather sadly - mostly just a curiosity.

- -

in other news, i'm playing g.i. joe: the atlantis factor, today, and it's a hot mess. much worse than its predecessor (which i like but Has Problems) and filled with a potpourri of ideas that don't mesh well with each other. not sure if i'll do a recording of this one, but i might do a more detailed post after i finish a play up. it sadly has MAZE SHIT, which i strongly suspect was because of dipshits at the US office (read: notorious dipshit ken lobb) telling KID that's what americans like.
BIL wrote:The excellent GamingHell claims Air Duel's "Tsumi-Nag" is Kire-Nag/Kazuma Kujo, credited in MS1 and a relatively visible IREM/Nazca figure. A long shot but perhaps #8 "SUMI" is a hint.
oh hey, i'm friends with the person that runs this place! i'll let them know you referred to them as "the excellent" gaminghell Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Wait, I think I might have Ardy Lightfoot lying around on a cart somewhere. I played it once and immediately shunned it.

Are you telling me it might be a good game?
EDIT: Wait, no, you're not.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

Bouhou Koumakyou: Scarlet Family 2
Developer: Marokaka

Bouhou Koumakyou: Scarlet Family 2 is the third game in the Bouhou series. Fundamentally it's similar to Bouhou Koumakyou: Scarlet Family. As before I'm mostly focusing on the differences here, so if you're unfamiliar with Scarlet Family 1 I recommend reading my review of that game before reading this one.

Scarlet Family 2 returns to Scarlet Family 1's multi-character gameplay. The other characters still throw the chosen explorer down the pit and everything. Also, Marokaka finally built autofire into the game! You don't need JoyToKey or a turbo controller to play this! It shouldn't have taken two sequels for that to happen! All characters also start with their own unique shot types, which is nice. The unarmed attacks in the first two games are lame, both improve a lot once you find proper weapons.
Spoiler
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This is such a good tradition
As in Bouhou Youyoumu, the dungeon is divided into numbered areas, but it's less linear and the numbering is more of a vague guideline than a hard requirement. I had some trouble getting off the ground because I couldn't figure out what I needed to do to move forward in area 2. It turns out that you need to first find Meiling's mattock in area 1, and then go through area 3 before you can make any serious progress elsewhere. After finding area 3's high jump spring the game opens up a lot.
Spoiler
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Early game exploration
Scarlet Family 2 uses an item system very similar to Bouhou Youyoumu's inventive charisma system. You've got a certain number of item slots, and can find or buy more in the dungeon. At the beginning of each excursion, you choose which items you want to bring, limited by the number of slots. Different items cost different numbers of slots. There's no fan translation this time around so you're on your own for figuring out what items do, but it's mostly easy to tell. If an item allows you to teleport to a shop or back home, the option will be visible on your inventory screen. The crystal ball is the only item I found to be unclear. It automatically sends you safely back home whenever you die. The first time it activated for me was after failing to return from a long and lucrative trip. That was one hell of a nice surprise.

One change from the other Bouhou games is items are not lost when you use them. Food items, for example, heal you once per expedition and are restored when you return home. Not needing to restock your supplies cuts out a bit of busywork, but it's not worth losing the danger that comes with limited supplies. That feeling of being hopelessly lost in hostile territory is one of the most important parts of the experience, and it's gone once you've got the crystal ball or the ticket to teleport home. What Marokaka should have done is include an item that lets you teleport from home to shops, and vice versa, and that's it.

A few characters have had their abilities changed since Scarlet Family 1, sometimes for the better, sometimes not. Flandre's ability in 1 was an invincible dash attack where Flandre surrounded herself in flames and damaged anything she passed through. Basically a scaled down phoenix teleport from Alien Soldier. It was great and Flandre's dungeon was easily the best part of the game. In Scarlet Family 2 she no longer deals contact damage and the dash covers an infinite distance, only stopping once you hit a wall. They traded away a versatile ability for both exploration and combat and replaced it with one that's only really good for exploration. Big letdown. On the other hand, Sakuya's high jump from Scarlet Family 1 was lame and in 2 it's been replaced with stopping time, which is what it should have been from the beginning. Patchouli's ability to activate teleporters has been replaced with glasses that let you see through fake walls. Not sure how I feel about that one. It is nice that there's a way to find those secrets without rubbing against every wall in the dungeon, but it can be a bit tedious to first clear an area with a real character (Patchouli is easily your worst fighter) and then switch to Patchouli to retrace your steps. Remilia and Meiling are much the same as they were in Scarlet Family 1.
Spoiler
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This screenshot gives the impression that Koakuma is playable, but if your cursor gets close she'll abruptly dash off screen. That heart on Daiyousei's head is a health upgrade which you can collect by clicking on it
Bouhou Youyoumu greatly improved its boss fights over Scarlet Family 1 and I had hoped 2 would further refine them. Instead it largely removed them. The first boss in Scarlet Family 2 is the final boss. There are a few postgame bosses, but for the most part they're either easy or they're more of a puzzle than a conventional fight. Speaking of postgame content, Scarlet Family 2's postgame is extensive and has some cool surprises. Bouhou Youyoumu's postgame was one dungeon area, and Scarlet Family 1's was just a few optional bosses. In Scarlet Family 2, the postgame constitutes four of the dungeon's eleven areas. I'll talk about it in more detail below the spoiler, but if you have any interest in playing Scarlet Family 2, I recommend seeing it for yourself rather than reading this.
Spoiler
The key to accessing the postgame is a bear trap found near the final boss room. With it you can capture Koakuma and force her to join your explorers. Koakuma's special ability is temporary invincibility, which is needed to get past a few traps. Unlike the other characters who all enter the dungeon at the beginning of area 1, Koakuma somehow enters the dungeon in area 8. Area 8 contains a silver key needed for others to get into area 8 and for Koakuma to get out. Deeper inside is a gold key which allows you to find and challenge Rumia and Cirno, both of whom will join your team after being defeated.

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Cirno is raring to go! Koakuma pays a coward's price! And Rumia is hiding in the cloud of darkness up at the top. There's another health upgrade hidden behind that poster near Cirno
Rumia's attacks are generic and weak. Her value comes from her unique ability to transform into EX Rumia. EX Rumia fires gigantic, overwhelmingly powerful shots, with the downside being that her health constantly drains. Upon falling to 1 HP, she'll revert back to normal. Any character can explore Rumia's dungeon, but its boss is so tough that EX Rumia is the only reasonable choice for defeating it. You'll want to stay as normal Rumia up to the boss room to conserve your health.

Image

Henshin!

Cirno can fire ice shots which temporarily freeze some enemies. Her dungeon is full of cliffs too tall to climb and immortal fairies with brutal attack power. By freezing them, Cirno can both disable the fairies for long enough to escape and make them into platforms needed to progress. Remilia can get into area 10 by flying, but she won't survive there.

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The status screen can't contain EX Rumia's power

Clearing areas 9 and 10 grants access to area 11, which is meant for Remilia. It's a fairly ordinary area with an ordinary boss. There's nothing especially wrong with it but it is an anticlimax. With that said, I'll take an anticlimax over Bouhou Youyoumu's true last boss, who was so strong that defeating her essentially required 100% completion.
Scarlet Family 2 is an improvement over Scarlet Family 1 in almost every way, but I really miss the danger of not making it back home and the pain of expending valuable resources. Hopelessly Stranded Miles Underground appeal is a big part of the fun in a dungeon crawler. Out of the series I'd rate Bouhou Youyoumu the highest, Scarlet Family 2 second, and Scarlet Family 1 last, but each has something the others lack.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by kitten »

Sumez wrote:EDIT: Wait, no, you're not.
eheh.

i'd really like to recommend ardy, but i can't. it just ain't good :[

it is better than the trash it first seems like when you give it some time and a really easy 1cc (you can easily get more than 20 1ups on a play and some are farmable after points where you're more likely to die), but coming to grips with the hitboxing and controls can make a first play very frustrating. i think it's mostly only worth it if you're immediately charmed by its world - the type of person who has been too enamored by a tail concerto or two in their life.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Vanguard wrote:Bouhou Koumakyou: Scarlet Family 2
Developer: Marokaka
Excellent reviews of these, I'm particularly looking forward to trying out the first over the holidays. :o
kitten wrote:
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^ and THIS is somehow a total miss that winds up with me getting hit!!!! amazing! superb!
Hey isn't the the Round Blue Thingy™ from Monster World IV? I wonder if there was any cross-influence, or some common inspiration. Wondering that a lot lately!

And wow, that shameless "pointblank that wasn't..." I've had similar annoyances with AC Dracula, though in that game's slight credit, it's at least consistent at completely shafting you ( :lol: ). And they made sure the Ravens go "CAWW, CAWW!" - that's definitely Ultimate Version calibre!

"I'm sorry Mr. Bird, it's just not going to work out for us." "WAWW! WAWW!" "OH FUCK YOU TOO!"
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Oh god damn it. Every time I casually dunk on this game I feel terrible. :sad: It's poor overall, and the worst ambassador of the traditional series' signature twitch/method action (having virtually zero twitch... even the leaden GB debut has more flex). But it's mostly down to a total lack of tuning - an Okay Game is apparent amid all the issues, and can be dredged out with some effort.

It figures Konami were doing this jiffy rebadge shit a solid 15+ years before Silent Hill 4. SH4 is a much better step-sequel than AC Dracula, to be sure!

Always loved Gaminghell, they remind me of the better UK mags from back in the day, the ones chock-full of import coverage and places to get said imports from. It's an energy instantly recognisable by those who grew up under the yoke of PAL Bullshit. :mrgreen: (I only visited the place and I got mad! You motherfucker, what do you mean MAZIN SAGA won't play on my Genesis but shitty-ass ALIEN 3 will?! :shock:)
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I spoke too soon, RE the lack of Saigo fan-art. There's a small but significant batch on Pixiv! Most of it's a bit shota-looking for my liking, but I do like a lot about this one. DEMON HANZO towering over his underlings, the sour-faced lurking killer Ryuichi, and most of all, GHOST as a Michael Myers-esque force of unfeeling, unstoppable doom. Some of it is a little CalArts, but it nails the eponymous sense of cruel isolation.

(click for full res)
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It's tricky with the game lacking any manner of enemy death animations (everything pops Gradius-style), but personally I like to think you're up against an army of fanatics who are far beyond such things as fear or pain, dying silently in their hundreds as more rush in to take their place. They are being manipulated by a dead dude down in a sinkhole, after all. Maybe he used his Buddhavision™ to secure compromising footage of every last one. Feudal societies be some harsh shit yo!

Among said shotas, one gave Tsukikage some nasty cuts and scrapes his mom will definitely need to put iodine on when he gets hom - oh god I'm so sorry. Also Iodine doesn't exist yet. Probably some equally stinging herbal medicine bullshit.

But yes - I really dig it when hardcore action characters are depicted with obvious signs of grueling combat! CAVE's ESPRade does this really well. In certain endings, characters are visibly bloodied, battered and singed, after what was decisive in-game victory, but in-story was hellacious ESPer war only the most Protagonist of genetics could survive! See also Death's Gambit portrait above, shamelessly repurposed for Saigo - that's about what I'd expect from the mug of a guy who singlehandedly exterminated an army of psychotic ninjas, samurai and the odd undead killing machine! It's rough out there!

---

Longtime Super Cool People MIKADO livestreamed a Saigo no-miss the other day, a damn fast one that nets 800k+. As if I didn't love these guys enough already. :cool: It's way way WAY the hell late here, but I gotta watch. Dig the announcer losing his shit at Boney-sama as the NOOO-MISSU approaches :lol:
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Vanguard
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

BIL wrote:Excellent reviews of these, I'm particularly looking forward to trying out the first over the holidays. :o
Hope you like it! Though honestly the second and third games are such improvements that it might be best to skip straight to one of them. I've been thinking a little about Scarlet Family 2's overly generous safety net, and I bet you could fix it by houseruling that you can't equip the crystal and you can only use fast travel items at the entrance to your home and inside shops.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

MIKADO gangs are fun to watch indeed, even without using subtitles you might recognize what are they talking about by just looking at the game and commentary alone 8)

I think they were the one who did commentary of Darius Gaiden Extra and Daioujou run way back then (it was hosted by Icarus iirc) ?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

Mike's trying too hard to defend NES TMNT

this is another case that "Nostalgia" doesn't always make anything bad good
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

NES TMNT is good though. It's got some problems that are uncharacteristic of Konami -- there are performance issues, the camera is bad at keeping up with the player, and it takes a few cheap shots -- but it's a really unique game that succeeds more than it fails. Only briefly looked at the clip you linked, but he's wrong about every turtle having a purpose. Donatello is overwhelmingly superior, the other three are item carriers and spare life bars for when things get desperate. But that's interesting! It's something like a game with POW mode (Revenge of Shinobi, CV Bloodlines, etc). Don't make mistakes and you can enjoy Donatello's unstoppable carnage full time. Take too much damage and you'll have to get used to the losers.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

I watched that Cinemassacre vid when it came out and I gotta say; it made me curious and made me want to gave the game another shot.

Vanguard, you saying that different turtles dealing more or less damage to certain enemy types doesn't matter since with Don you can dispatch them all without much trouble, and therefore there's no need to switch characters for offensive purposes? (there's a bit where we clearly see that Raph takes out some flying enemies in 1 hit where some other turtle takes 4 hits or so)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I think I'd really like TMNT1 if the sludgy performance and camera tracking were fixed. It's certainly not without its merits as a tougher than average, mildly nonlinear FC action game (it ain't Zelda II though! or METROID! come at me CTRL+V map haters Image). I particularly like the XTREEM jump height and aimable melee attacks, which feel kinda Saigo in retrospect.

I wonder what happened with the coding. I picked up Getsu Fuuma Den, correctly noted by many as conspicuously proto-TMNT1. Expected similar issues, but nope - GFD is as smooth and tightly-tracking as Dracula and Contra. Big sprites flying all over the screen without a hitch. I wonder if GEKIKAME NINJA-DEN was handed off to some hapless noobs, what with the franchise still relatively little-known in Japan.

(OT, I also wonder which sidescroller popularised directional melee control. My pet theory is that IREM nicked it off Contra for their own high-octane sidescroller... but if poor Drum hadn't jihaded himself on the impassive face of the SYSTEM11 Godhead in a fit of internet dance fever, he'd probably pull me up on that!)
Vanguard wrote:Only briefly looked at the clip you linked, but he's wrong about every turtle having a purpose. Donatello is overwhelmingly superior, the other three are item carriers and spare life bars for when things get desperate. But that's interesting! It's something like a game with POW mode (Revenge of Shinobi, CV Bloodlines, etc). Don't make mistakes and you can enjoy Donatello's unstoppable carnage full time. Take too much damage and you'll have to get used to the losers.
Coincidentally, this is the exact dynamic (albeit far more successfully done) I'm enjoying ATM in Shock Troopers. Was previously a LONLY WOLF Image but TEAM BATTLE is surprisingly addictive. Current lineup is Milky (fast infantry shredder, killer spreadbomb - also KAWAII), BIG MAMA (tank buster/boss destroyer, killer snipebomb - also GAR) and Rio (emergency support for the ladies - tougher than Milky, faster than Mama, a quick hardcase good for generating HP drops).

Also experimenting with Milky, Mama and Southern Cross, who is basically Mama with a worse bomb, which is good for bosses (swap out a heavy if needed), but bad for stages (if Milky gets messed up, welcome to Walk And Gun). As with FC Double Dragon III, I refuse to have my endings spoiled by yawning black voids of eternity indicating that Someone Died!

I've found Shock Troopers one of those rare arcade games that actually benefits from a difficulty level boost (Elevator Action Returns is another, at least with my character of choice, the possibly EZMODE Edie). Level 8 ensures KILL OR BE KILLED action. Enemies are kinda slow on Level 4, to the point I felt sorry for the buggers' brutal deaths (Neo Contra syndrome) - but that's to cater for the CQC scoring mechanic. Which still has distinct purpose on Level 8, by giving you more+better drops!

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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

FinalBaton wrote:I watched that Cinemassacre vid when it came out and I gotta say; it made me curious and made me want to gave the game another shot.

Vanguard, you saying that different turtles dealing more or less damage to certain enemy types doesn't matter since with Don you can dispatch them all without much trouble, and therefore there's no need to switch characters for offensive purposes? (there's a bit where we clearly see that Raph takes out some flying enemies in 1 hit where some other turtle takes 4 hits or so)
Donatello completely destroys the other turtles in both reach and damage output. I don't think the thing about enemies having weaknesses to certain turtles is even real. Here's a damage chart from TASVideos that matches up with my experience:

Code: Select all

Weapon     Norm  Boost
Don        15    16
Mike        7    12
Raph        9     9
Leo         7    10
Shuriken   18    20
Boomerang  16    16
Triple Sh. 14    17
Scrolls    29    32
"Norm" is how much damage a turtle/weapon does when at or above half health, "Boost" is the boosted damage you get when below half. My suspicion is that the Cinemassacre guy got confused by a sudden damage spike from Michaelangelo's desperation mode and drew some bad conclusions. Also bear in mind that enemies in TMNT get generous mercy invincibility. A fast attacker like Michaelangelo can easily waste hits because of it, and in doing so perhaps give the impression that his damage per hit is lower than it really is. The mercy invincibility also makes Donatello's weakness of slower attack speed almost completely irrelevant.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I had no idea that low-HP damage boost was even a thing. :shock: Quasi RAEG MODE is a pretty innovative mechanic for its time and platform. Can't recall any other FC action games with it, offhand, other than KID's Doki Doki Yuuenchi (which is like a survival-oriented Border Down, colour-changing and all, the character doing more damage as his health depletes).

Or MD/SFC ones, actually.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Vanguard wrote:My suspicion is that the Cinemassacre guy got confused by a sudden damage spike from Michaelangelo's desperation mode and drew some bad conclusions.
It's very possible that in his comparison, Raph had low health and Mikey had high health, while facing the same enemy! I'd put my money on that. Good catch!
BIL wrote:I had no idea that low-HP damage boost was even a thing. :shock:
Same! BERUSEKARU mode is lit af! Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

TMNT1 has its janky attributes, but I don't think any are to the detriment of the game outside of the game's final stage, which is thoroughly broken and requires you to pretty much "game the system".

I saw that Cinemassacre video linked some weeks ago, and I've managed to stay away from watching any of it, as I know in advance it'd just make me mad. Mike Matei acting like some sort of authority on any video game is the definition of cringe.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

BIL wrote:Can't recall any other FC action games with it, offhand, other than KID's Doki Doki Yuuenchi
Moon Crystal!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Oh wow, does it? :o It's been a while since I played Moon Crystal, must've forgotten. Very unique game on FC, doesn't surprise me to hear it had some ideas.

Found better pics of the Saigo instruction sheets mentioned a few posts back, at the very nice https://www.tvspels-nostalgi.com/ Chiefly of interest to me is the use of NINJA SPIRIT on the materials. This game's papers seem noticeably hard to find, even scanned, but I wonder if there was ever an English print run. Despite lacking the morbid doom of the JP title, I find the World title catchier. Ala Daimakaimura/Ghouls n' Ghosts, though, it's important to distinguish them.

Controls. Can see in detail that the POW kusarigama's instructions have the joystick giving off steam, haha. Again, hitting the next immediate cardinal after the initial shot will do (or the next diagonal, even). Really glad they went with this - it'd ruin the sense of ripping momentum if you had to haul the stick around the gate.
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Powerups. Dream Game Hackz OMAKE: I'd make the wall POW holders snipe just like their green brethren. Had to headcanon them to spies because they don't do jack! Would make the ones dotting 7-1 a right laugh, lmao!
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Control panel stickers. Attack/jump/switch, I guess? Must be valuable in unused form!
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Just need to track down a readable-resolution scan of the flyer now, I love me some pithy flavour texts. Can just about make out "THIS IS HARD-BOILED NINJA STORY," a cracking start! Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Wow, the berserk/crisis/desperation state boosting was something that was used in platformer games a lot earlier than I realized. The only one I'm really familiar with is Mega Man clone Rozenkreuzstilette's Zero-style melee character who gets a damage boost (and increased charge slash range if I remember) when below half health with a lifebar colour change to indicate it. It's been a while since I've had the chance to play it, but that sort of thing is a neat mechanic to play with, especially if you take the risk of triggering it intentionally.

"I don't care if you're a God, a human, or even an insect - I will rip you apart just the same."
Also bear in mind that enemies in TMNT get generous mercy invincibility.
I haven't really played the first TMNT, mostly just the Konami beat em ups, but sadly the same thing applies to the TMNT beat em up games. Hits don't really feel like they always connect properly, and if you try to mash through a basic combo on bosses they'll break out at random, meaning single poke and move strats are better. Same issue on X-Men and the Simpsons beat em ups, I much prefer Capcom's beat em up design generally as they're more fair and consistent about comboing rules and what's safe/unsafe to use.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

BIL wrote:Ala Daimakaimura/Ghouls n' Ghosts, though, it's important to distinguish them.
So what's the difference between Saigo and Ninja Spirit? Only on arcade?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

The US version has more checkpoints, more enemies, more powerup items, and higher enemy HP.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

^ yep! Bit more detail from Obscura here.

It sounds like Ninja Spirit might be the easier 1CC but harder 1LC. Suddenly I feel like trying it out. Not thrilled at the thought of more enemy HP though. Just Saigo's max difficulty gets overly tanky for my liking, compared to the pitch-perfect default where a couple direct grenade hits will blow apart heavy enemies.

AFAIK, the HuCard and TG16 versions are absolutely identical - they didn't even translate the stage titles for the latter (not that I'm complaining! I actually prefer them to the arcade version's uncharacteristically sterile "Round x Clear" "The End" etc).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

BIL, check this game out. It's a high speed dash run 'n gun mixed with denser bullet hell style patterns. It's pretty rad honestly for an indie pay-what-you-want, I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying it considering platformers aren't always my cup of tea: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65517

Here's a no death run of the game. Loving the Vanquish style dashing in it.
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