Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^Actually Z1 bosses have S-Rank unique attacks as well. Watch out for Phantom's black out!

Also I do think z4 is the best myself, personally. Mostly because the enemy placement feels a bit more creative (there are more unique types of enemies that require more dodging, that have some tricky platform placement), and the stages themselves have more creative gimmicks (love, love, LOVE the gravity switching stage, and the moving blocks in the virus infected cyber city). The bosses are also great too imo.

The smaller screen size hurts a bit and may occasionally cause you to slow down for a moment when you would otherwise be manically dashing through, but it's very small and very subtle and overall doesn't hold the game back at all.

Like all Mega Man Games, it's not arcade styled so don't expect an exciting gauntlet, but they are extremely enjoyable from a moment to moment basis if not terribly tense or exciting. They also take the vastly superior route of giving the game 4 or so bosses at a time instead of all 8 at once, allowing the difficulty to rise more realisticly instead of staying steady.

Sword play makes the game feel a bit more hot blooded and movement intensive then the X series. The smaller playing field and actually quite generous reach on your sword only makes close range combat slightly riskier, resulting in it being by far the superior option to the buster unless you absolutely positively want to spend the whole fight running from the boss.

I think you'll like all the games fights against Fefnir, who is basically Claw Bahamut with a Fire motif and the same twitchy jumps. There are quite a few highlights, but Panther Fauclaws is another favorite for his lightning quick variety of unpredictable attacks on top of moving platforms (get ready for some intense shit when he backs you into a corner).

[trap15]

Squire, are you able to share your game WIP maybe? :3c Sounds very cool

[BIL]

RMZ series sounds good, thanks guys! I'm gonna give them a look.

TBH it was the smaller viewing area that gave me the most pause. Good to hear it's manageable. I notice that the games seem really good about keeping the player centered, too. If there's a true instant fail for 2D action in my book, it's busted character centering that migrates the player to a scrolling screen's edge. Can't stand that; nails on blackboard-bad. Dracula/Ryukenden airtight centering makes me indescribably happy. ^__^

[GSK]

I really wish they could have expanded the screen size for the DS compilation. I know it wouldn't have been a trivial change and I'm sure they considered it but the only thing worse than the tiny viewing area is playing in a tiny viewing area with a fucking border.

[Squire Grooktook]

Squire, are you able to share your game WIP maybe? :3c Sounds very cool

Oh thank you. I'll probably put it up along with a video when I get off from school next week (there's one or two bugs I caught that are easy enough to fix, but I don't have time atm with finals still coming). It's nothing special yet (best in show for projects that had 1-3 weeks of work with zero experience), still needs a lot of work, but it's based on an idea I've had for a while and I plan to keep working on it. Might take a detour though and try something a bit simpler (like CV) in order to learn the engine more first. I think I'm gonna try to make a ton of small projects to share for feedback and experience.

[BIL]

Oh man, I could spend all day dicing up pistol zako and roly polys in RMZ1's rainy first mission. Such smooth-handling dash/slash action. Really like having a gun on shoulder button switch too. Reminds me a bit of DMC.

So much friggin talking to skip though though! Gaaah. I'm replaying Metroid Fusion ATM as well incidentally. Now that one really make me wanna holler SHUT THE FUCK UP or alternatively boot up Ninja Gaiden III or Umihara Kawase. Or Super Metroid! Silence is golden! Just a man, his balls and technique. You know what I prefer in my sidescrolling action - evil cunt of a Taromaru boss decapitating a goddamn baby before I splatter her and her demon steed's guts all over the screen. Now that's conversatin'. No, seriously. You decapitated a baby. I'm gonna telekinetically rip you the fuck in half. ಠ_ಠ <--seamless action game storytelling

That's a lot of good games in the preceding two paragraphs. I just wish they hadn't grown more verbose over time. Bionic Commando GB and Hard Corps followed this pattern too, grr.

Minor complaints though. This GBA stuff is great. I think the half-baked and hideous Harmony of Dissonance soured me on the platform and made me think it was all about the same.

[soprano1]

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/12/13/ba ... l-assault/

Don't know if this has been mentioned on the forum yet, but there we go. Seems to play like Shatterhand with double jumps.

[BIL]

Certainly looks the part - beautiful in motion. Dunno about the digitised intro but eh, it's an intro!



I so love that particular sprite/screen size ratio favoured by Konami, Tecmo, Sunsoft and Natsume's finest. Compact, efficient and beautifully detailed, perfectly suited for fast and strikingly drawn action.

I remember when Dracula IV's "BIG SPRITES ROFL" used to come up on fansites as a plus point over Vampire Killer and Rondo's, haha. Gimme FC Batman '89 over the sequel any day.

[Ed Oscuro]

See WayForward? That wasn't so hard.

OOPS DID I NAME NAMES

[GSK]

I'm kinda worried by how much they're "borrowing" from Shatterhand, but if the Oniken dudes could get away with not-Kenshiro I guess these guys will be fine.

See WayForward? That wasn't so hard.

OOPS DID I NAME NAMES

Eh, I think their 3DS games aren't too bad about that sort of thing, but they were definitely guilty of that back in the day, yeah.

[Ghegs]

Oh, that looks very nice indeed. Looking forward to it.

Though the digitized intro is a bit un-NES like, it's not completely out of place either. The romhack Legend of Link uses something similar in its intro (though it's not nearly as complex there) and that one's playable on a real system. So it ties in with the game's "what if the NES didn't have any memory or sprite limitations?" -theme.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^Another indie arcade title on my radar as well.

Also here's a video of my game design class final project. I can share it if anybody wants, but I'm a bit reluctant to do so because I found two enormous glitches* that I'm very embarresed about and that thankfully nobody found during actual class presentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7sufBVbIDI


*

Spoiler

The spiked balls will not kill you if you touch them in the opposite direction that they are moving (dead on collision or adjacent touch still will), and the patrolling bat/gargoyal things have borked hit detection when you're facing the right side (ie you have to be standing to the right of them, not them facing right). I know how to fix both, but here's just the final version as is.

[Pretas]

Notable for maybe being the only chiptune track ever to sample Kanye West and LMFAO's Party Rock Anthem

I have little faith in this particular duo of self-absorbed retro hipsters.

[Squire Grooktook]

You can't be a hipster if you actually understand what you're talking about. The fact that they understand and can explain the arcade format* already makes them, far, far more then hipsters. If they were of the Super Meat Boy/I Wanna Be The Guy school of consolized retro game design, where punishment for failure is completely excised in favor of emotionless 2d instant gratification, then perhaps I'd be willing to call them hipsters. But they've at least shown that that is not the case by setting forth a goal that is at a complete right angle to that kind of playstyle.

Being untested, how well they are able to actually pull off things like level design remains to be seen, but remember that game design is mostly trial and error (or "iterative design", as they call it in the business), so that will depend on how much time they have to playtest and is always something that can be nailed on future titles.

*

Spoiler

"Steel Assault is aiming to be an arcade-style game. What that means is tight length, tight design, and high difficulty. The ultimate goal is to clear it in one credit, and the total length on a perfect playthrough will probably be around 25-30 minutes; however, getting to that perfect playthrough will take hours."

Not sure where you're getting "self absorbed" from, though.

[Pretas]

The fact that they went into it with the specific mindset of "I want to make a grovelling, nostalgia-pandering clone of Shatterhand" instead of "I want to make an awesome game" is damning enough.

If it was actually being made to run on a NES, fine, but I'm incredibly tired of these faux-8-bit hipster pet projects that awkwardly wedge themselves in between Famicom-style graphics and modern hardware performance. It might have been cute at first, but now it's an obvious method of compensating for a limited skillset.

Not to mention that any remaining potential for originality or refinement in the traditional 2D action-platformer format has long since been strip-mined and exploited by more capable developers.

Note that I am more forgiving of faux-8-bit games that strive to remain as authentic as possible to the constraints of the original hardware, such as Life Fortress Volcabamba and the original version of La-Mulana.

[Squire Grooktook]

The fact that they went into it with the specific mindset of "I want to make a grovelling, nostalgia-pandering clone of Shatterhand" instead of "I want to make an awesome game" is damning enough.

Seems more like "I want to make an awesome game that is inspired by Shatterhand". That doesn't mean it'll be a clone of Shatterhand, or that it won't be awesome. It's been stated here many times that Ninja Gaiden was basically a clone of Castlevania, but fine tweaking to core mechanics created a completely unique and original playstyle.

Even if it was a straight up clone of Shatterhand with remixed level design, it would still be worth playing if well executed. Nothing wrong with a remix from time to time giving you a new set of challenges to master and excitement to be had.

If it was actually being made to run on a NES, fine, but I'm incredibly tired of these faux-8 bit hipster pet projects that awkwardly wedge themselves in between Famicom-style graphics and modern hardware performance. It might have seemed cute at first, but now it's an obvious method of compensating for a limited skillset.

I think this argument would be justified if the sprite work wasn't good, but it is. Game looks lovely to be honest. I don't care to see everything in 8-bit vision, but when it's well executed I find it hard to dislike.

Note that I am more forgiving of faux-8-bit games that strive to remain as authentic as possible to the constraints of the original hardware, such as Life Fortress Volcabamba and the original version of La-Mulana.

This seems incredibly bizarre thinking to me ("I don't care if it essentially looks the part and is better for the liberties it takes, it needs to conform to a set of arbitrary historical hardware limitations to be cool!"), but whatever, to each his own.

Not to mention that any remaining potential for originality or refinement in the traditional 2D action-platformer format has long since been strip-mined and exploited by more capable developers.

Now this is one thing I'll never agree on. There is endless potential for originality and refinement in every genre. There are millions of things that haven't been done or refined even in a genre as focused as shmups, let alone action platformers/run and gun shooters which have barely even begun to perfect themselves or look into things like deep scoring mechanics. Then again, in order to recognize originality in any game new or old, you have to recognize subtlety. Castlevania is just a stiff uncomfortable mess if you can't look past the exterior and see how the strict non-cancelable timings on your-everything creates a unique sense of vulnerability and a skillset of fighting game-esque spacial planning and timing. If you just look at every game and see "OH ANOTHER 2D PLATFORMER/SHMUP" you're not going to see originality, potential, or fun no matter what.

I continue to follow new shmup and 2d releases because there are an enormous number of things that I want to see that haven't been done. As well as an enormous number of things that I haven't thought of yet and wouldn't mind being surprised by. No need to throw in the towel any time soon.

As for refinement, even something as basic as Contra has not reached maximum potential for refinement (if such a thing could even exist). Contra 1, 3, and Hardcorps are the pinnacle of the franchise for me (as well as the pinnacle of side scrollers), but even they have plenty of places where they could be improved. Daimakaimura is another game that's near perfect for me, but "near" to "perfection" is still an eternity away. Just getting rid of the second loop and replacing it with unique stages would make another game well worth playing.

[null1024]

Steel Assault looks nice. Makes me think more of a Genesis title than an NES one though [in fact, I was confused at first, the deep scrolling, explosions, screen size, damn near everything except the palette just screams Genesis].
the digitized intro thing made me think a bit of Red Zone, too

I'd need to play it to make any kind of real judgement call, but it looks like it could be neat.

the soundtrack bits on the website seem kind of weak though -- it's technically fine, but it doesn't make me think of something that looks like STEEL ASSAULT, everything seems way too laid back, even the boss track
also, those DPCM samples are awful, why would you do that

[Squire Grooktook]

Also spent some more time with Zenki Battle Raiden the other night. Could you give me some tips Bil? ATM I'm feeling awful clunky at the game. Not sure if I'm using the moveset wrong or just need to memorize stages/bosses more.

[BIL]

The Big Zenki stages are a bit chunky-feeling by nature, with the big sprites and favouring of flashy, recovery-heavy attacks. You can definitely go without taking a scratch like in any other good sidescroller, though. Might sound a bit obvious, but figuring out which moves slot into various situations, then proactively applying those strategies is key. Once I started doing this I found the game all too easy to keep under control, especially with the slight "elemental weakness" mechanic at play.

For example, the homing ghosts in stage 2-1, that multiply when hit - utter pain in the ass if you try jumpkicking or rapid punching them. You'll just get swarmed. Instead, smack the original away with a standing punch and hold the button, so that you've got a Raijinken ready to let rip (hold Forward and release the button) when him and his new buddies regroup. The whole bunch will get fried, job done. The zombies in the same area don't like electricity either, but will shrug off an initial punch and grab you before you can charge, so backdash to gain the necessary space.

Or those firebreathing manbear things - the forward,forward+attack Burn Knuckle will kill them instantly, so launch it at them on sight. Those Varia suit-looking heavies that rush in with a punch can be killed with a single Raijinken, but you'll never charge it in time; instead, bait them into charging, backdash out of their punch range, then blast 'em as they recover. The similarly huge Kitsune mask guys are susceptible to fireballs (charge attack, then release with neutral pad), so start bombarding them from a distance. Birds are instantly felled by the up+attack Joe Higashi hurricane upper, don't compromise your position by leaving the ground to attack. The weird flying scorpion thingies in 5-1 soak up power attacks but a single vanilla jumpkick will obliterate them.

OTOH, smaller enemies like those strawhat dudes and the stringier-looking rushing punchers aren't worth hitting with power attacks. Just jab / jumpkick 'em to death, or if you can get them in a corner, bludgeon them with the rapid combo. Of course if they're supporting other enemies you can try to collaterally nail them with splash damage.

Note also that you can hold attack while moving around freely, to instantly begin charging Raijinken as soon as you're stationary (instead of having to throw a punch first). RAIJINKEN IS UR FRIEND (good damage to many enemy types + huge hit area), so this is really useful!

I really like this style of play - it's a bit like oldschool Dracula, obviously not as lethally punishing of mistakes, but there's the same principle of identifying the correct tack and deftly applying it (the penalty here is more wounded pride, haha). TBH I wouldn't find it quite as enjoyable without the awesome Rugal-esque character, but it's a fun novelty in my collection, supported by the same tight handling CAProduction demonstrated in Hagane.

I haven't been posting much due to a busy week and wanted to chill out tonight with Super Metroid and nachos, but then MY USB GAMEPAD TOOK A MASSIVE SHIT AND WONT WORK UNLESS I'M AT MY DESK. :[ WTF... I've gone through three of these things (various brands) in the last year. SMH.

So I'll give recording a few basic Zenki replays a go. ^__^

[drauch]

Who is nostalgic for Shatterhand? The like 10 people that got it for Christmas when they were eight because their parents found it in the budget bin? Really doubt this game screams Shatterhand to anyone outside of sidescroller fans.

Maybe five years ago you could pinpoint the contemporary meaning of hipster. In 2014 I'm starting to notice on the internet that hipster basically qualifies for "anyone that pisses you off."

[Obiwanshinobi]

Approached Almana no Kiseki one more time, but not in best of my shapes. It was not a serious attempt.

[BIL]

Oy... my PC pirate fun is really flagging tonight. First the gamepad cable goes, then goddamn emulator won't play sound. Until I was dumping the AVI.

Anyhoo, here's a short demo of Battle Raiden stage 2-1 to illustrate the methodical approach I describe above. It's an easy stage to survive, but also very easy to turn into a bogged-down clusterfuck with its terrain features and pesky foes, so I thought it a good pick (also it's early in the game and I'm lazy). Boss goes terribly, what a horrible night to realise you depend on audio cues! But I left it in because fuck an edit! Video quality chokes balls anyway!

Stages 3-1 (mines), 3-3 (lava shrine), 5-1 (weird floating garden with the best lightning animations I've ever seen) and 5-3 (corridor gauntlet, the game's only real testing of its concept's limit) are my favourites of the Big Zenki levels. Again it's never a very hard game, but there's a satisfaction in playing it authoritatively. Of the small Zenki stages, 4-1 is pretty great. Hagane-esque.

The second loop *really* should've been the default, or at least selectable. My "EZ but fun I swear!" caveat still applies but it tightens things up perfectly.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^Yeah, looks like I just need to learn what move goes with what enemy better, was trying too hard to get Raigekiha off on everything.

[BIL]

Drifted back to Metroids Fusion and Zero Mission this week... and I have to say, Fusion is frustrating. Not in terms of difficulty ("tough bosses" ROFL they cool though!), but structure. Such lovely controls! I FN <333 having missiles + superbombs on R trigger! Better controls than Super Metroid with two less buttons. But such bland railroading! Instead of the script leading you around by the nose, wouldn't it have been cooler if you were able to explore the space station at your leisure, with a hostile computer working against you (maybe altering area geometry SA-X style, or changing environmental conditions, or releasing hostile creatures)? You know, the ol' Weyland Yutani bollocks. "zomg dont kill muh speciminz!" Instead of being admonished to not open this door or that, how about you could open what areas you want and deal with the result? Maybe being forced to choose one set of mutated enemies over another. Speaking of mutants, how'd they rip off John Carpenter's The Thing and not have at least one spider made of crewman corpses?

Eh. I don't normally armchair develop but it's hard not to here. I still really like this game. As with the Umihara Kawase series, I love Super Metroid and its two GBA followups for the sheer joy of sidescrolling movement they exude. I find myself walljumping all over the place in Fusion while heading from A to B just for the hell of it. There are also some really fun boss battles in here (particularly countering Serris's superfast charges with perfectly-placed missiles to the skull, and spacedancing around Nightmare's erratic body rammings). And despite the dull railroading, it's at least a pretty entertaining ride. Great feedback on those weapons, Ice Missiles in particular feel so brutal.

Decided to pick up JP copies of both games for my fledgling GB/C/A library and whaddayaknow, Fusion actually got an additional Hard difficulty in its native region. I'm so used to getting wanged with the JP difficulty nerf bat, the reverse always pleasantly surprises me!

Also here's a video of my game design class final project. I can share it if anybody wants, but I'm a bit reluctant to do so because I found two enormous glitches* that I'm very embarresed about and that thankfully nobody found during actual class presentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7sufBVbIDI

I totally forgot to check this. Looks nice and busy already!

[Obiwanshinobi]

About Almana no Kiseki (oh, I read there is a bootleg cart out there), people who are into Castlevania or Green Beret should dig it. I don't think you can adjust movement mid-air and the weapons are... weapons ( limited ammunition, whereas the enemies respewn infinitely).

[trap15]

Almana no Kiseki is very excellent. About a year back I no-missed it on stream Seems like it'd be a pretty fun speed-game too, lots of optimization potential and sequence breaking to be done.

[BIL]

Almana's been on my radar ever since you mentioned it on your site a while ago - love the Roc n' Rope connection, plus my VGM waifu Kinuyo Yamashita did the soundtrack. :3 Will finally get around to it this year I hope. ^__^ Might invest in a decent NES/FC repro cart actually...

You can't be a hipster if you actually understand what you're talking about. The fact that they understand and can explain the arcade format* already makes them, far, far more then hipsters. If they were of the Super Meat Boy/I Wanna Be The Guy school of consolized retro game design, where punishment for failure is completely excised in favor of emotionless 2d instant gratification, then perhaps I'd be willing to call them hipsters. But they've at least shown that that is not the case by setting forth a goal that is at a complete right angle to that kind of playstyle.

Being untested, how well they are able to actually pull off things like level design remains to be seen, but remember that game design is mostly trial and error (or "iterative design", as they call it in the business), so that will depend on how much time they have to playtest and is always something that can be nailed on future titles.

*

Spoiler

"Steel Assault is aiming to be an arcade-style game. What that means is tight length, tight design, and high difficulty. The ultimate goal is to clear it in one credit, and the total length on a perfect playthrough will probably be around 25-30 minutes; however, getting to that perfect playthrough will take hours."

This reminds me of a discussion I had with some non-arcade gaming friends, years ago on another forum. Topic was "hard gamez" and, in complete good faith, they couldn't grasp how a short, credit-feedable game could be considered not just difficult but intensely challenging and rewarding. I hamfistedly put it to them like this... take [quality competitive fighting game] and pit a rank novice against a seasoned pro. Novice gets predictably flattened but can chuck in a credit for a brand new lifebar after each KO. After dozens upon dozens of credits the pro finally gets whittled down. That's credit feeding. Clean win = 1CC. Getting good enough to flatten the other guy = mastery. I think I communicated the point to them; I never again took the basic grasp of arcade ethics quoted above for granted. Again these weren't "SHORT N EASY ROFL" ignoramuses, they honestly didn't see why you'd not use infinite continues and call it a day. I didn't either until relatively recently, actually.

Obviously the Steel Assault devs might just be talking a good game, proof's in the pudding and all that. But provided they respect the principle it's a very significant first step.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^ That is a good analogy

they honestly didn't see why you'd not use infinite continues and call it a day. I didn't either until relatively recently, actually.

My way of generally explaining it is to point to the score counter. I usually tell them that score is not just a number but the games way of measuring mastery of the game, similar to the way a metroidvania might plot % of the map explored. So having your score wiped after every game over becomes a developer approved way of saying "you did not really beat the game", instead of a mere self imposed challenge.

I totally forgot to check this. Looks nice and busy already!

Thank you! My ultimate plan is to have Bionic Commando style swinging, as well as being able to chuck enemies at each other. My idea was that since you move faster while grappling, you could use it to boost your movement/make emergency dodges/or otherwise improve your movement by making use of terrain. For combat, it would be a bit heavier commitment than most Contra/Metal Slug style rapid shooters, so you wouldn't want to miss, but hitting an enemy succesfully with one grapple would allow you to chuck it at other enemies, thus rewarding you for having good aim and letting you take on large hordes with an otherwise deliberate weapon.

Still though, not happy with the way it controls atm, so I'm probably going to come back to this when I understand the engine more and redo it from the ground up. Long laundry list of things to get right!

[GSK]

Steel Assault's music is way too Euro-sounding and doesn't suit the game at all, IMO. Putting aside all those comments about sampling Kanye or whatever, those warbly C64 arpeggios are totally out of place.

[BIL]

Oh muh goodness, Ninja Five-O / Ninja Cop Not Saizou (GBA) is expensive. And US/EU exclusive, which means possible counterfeit fun. Is it any good gentlemen? It does seem pretty cool at a glance.

Been idly rooting about the GB/C library in search of general action goodies, sidescrollers in particular... Bionic Commando is a hard act to follow it seems. Meta Fight EX didn't cut the mustard. The sidescrolling's brutally crash-zoomed resolution and nerfed shot limit expose more than ever the weakness of the other half's top-down shooting. The FC game needed a total design rip out and overhaul to bring out the tank's unrealised potential; new stages in the same Metroid-lite mode don't cut it. Red Arremer - might revisit this at some point. Lovely collection piece, but it's hard to shake the feeling of playing the beautiful FC sequel with added hardware issues and [random encounter] pace-straining [random encounter] overworld exploration.

Speaking of Metroid, II is kind of pointless isn't it? None of the original's abyssal wanderings nor the later 2D games' endlessly diverting acrobatics. I jumped all over the wonderful Famicom Mini port of the FDS game but II leaves me cold. Not often I stave off the collector impulse with such cold clarity! I need a drink! I dig how the FDS made it possible for cartoon animals to squeal loudly as I gun them down in self defense, or stab them in Zelda II's case. And I thought NES Castlevania's "mup!" damage sfx was hawt.

I get the feeling a sidescroller fan is a lot better off skipping GB/C and going straight to GBA, the notable exception of Bionic Commando GB aside. Obviously MIRITE? But it does seem hard to get much out of the older libraries even with moderately concerted digging.