Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Sumez
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Yeah, Konami actually has a ton of those, but I figured I had most of them accounted for, but this one somehow slipped my attention. From your description it sounds good, too.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Jonny2x4 »

BIL wrote:Punching out for the night with FC Spartan X / Game B. In the interests of research Image I saved at the start of each loop and yep, it keeps getting meaner up to at least 4. Authentically inhospitable arcade-calibre challenge! Loop 4 / Stage 2's spawn rate is such that you really want to hustle past stuff where possible rather than letting spawns gather:
At the rate youŕe going, you might one day clear the 50th loop and fight Sylvia.
mycophobia wrote:Props to Konami for making Surprise Attack feel exactly like Shinobi. obviously without melee or the ability to bounce off of enemies it's quite a bit harder but still handles in the same very satisfying manner. really digging the gravity mechanics too. third boss thoroughly kicks my ass on every run so far.
It's been a while since I tried out Surprise Attack on MAME. All I remember was that it had some quiz sessions. It's also one of those games with a Hideaki Kodama promo art.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

The straight Shinobi playstyle (minus a few things) of Surprise Attack has my interest. I might just dig this game
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Jonny2x4 wrote:At the rate youŕe going, you might one day clear the 50th loop and fight Sylvia.
:lol:

Yeah I hear it's Mr. X tied up in the chair that go-around, and unlike with Sylvia, he and Thomas's happiness lasts LONG LONG TIME. You don't fight a guy to the death forty-nine times without developing some kind of rapport.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Can you sweep Mr. X to death in the FC version?

I seem to recall being able to do this.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I think so - wouldn't surprise me if it were possible, with how manipulable the game's AI is. I'm also not sure how Game A/B affects things. In Game B you can spam sweeps and he'll dodge 90% of them while taking the odd hit, though there's a risk he'll own you with a jumpkick, which hurt a lot. Either I'm doing it wrong or I need to perfect my method!

Magician seems the worst on Game B's loops, due to the speed his crowd spawns and moves at. TBH just making Loop 5 seems pretty rough, will give it a serious go this weekend. Has that distinct sense of a game gunning to get the player off the machine, I love it. I don't want to cheese things with save stating each loop though. Now that I know it keeps ratcheting up at least to the fourth, which can kill in seconds, I'll just take my time from here.

Meant to say last night:
Sumez wrote:
__SKYe wrote: Also got some 650k on the regular game (reach phase 30-something) and want to get the counter-stop, if any.
Just checked with my pall who's a beast at Balloon Fight, and his record is 1.8 million. The score just rolls over every time you get a million, so don't expect a counterstop. The world record is over 4 million supposedly.
Good info! I'd guess Balloon Trip works the same then.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Immryr »

i was quite surprised to find after completing nazo no murasamejou that it has a second loop! i didn't play too far into it but it feels like the enemies start out quite a bit quicker and there are some other changes like the maiden in the first castle is now a demon head and the first level boss throws more bombs without a gap.

i'm really loving this game! it feels a bit like ninja gaiden in that at first it can feel like you need to play in a very strict way due to how quickly things can go to shit but as you get more familiar with the enemies and stage layouts you can improvise more and it gets easier to recover if you do mess up and die.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Absolutely, my initial description of the game was a mix between Zelda and Ninja Gaiden, due to the way focus and precision is a constant requirement. Unlike Ninja Gaiden though, the game maintains a constant onslaught wether you like it or not, with very few chances to stop up and take a breather, losing some of NG's more methodical approach. It also has a lot more random patterns that you need to adjust to and which, to my experience, will some times fuck you over. That especially goes for exploding ninjas and the fireball throwing zakos.

I tried the second loop shortly after clearing the game, and after a lot of time spent on the last three stages of the game, even a second loop version of stage 1 felt laughably easy in comparison. :P
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by __SKYe »

BIL wrote:Meant to say last night:
Sumez wrote:
__SKYe wrote: Also got some 650k on the regular game (reach phase 30-something) and want to get the counter-stop, if any.
Just checked with my pall who's a beast at Balloon Fight, and his record is 1.8 million. The score just rolls over every time you get a million, so don't expect a counterstop. The world record is over 4 million supposedly.
Good info! I'd guess Balloon Trip works the same then.
Forgot to reply -- thanks for the heads up Sumez. Guess I'll just go for the roll-over then.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Finished my SOTN playthrough.

Overall had a good time, though I feel the game is best played in bursts of about 20 minutes, so that it doesn't start to feel like a slog.

My main goal was to amass a cool arsenal of secret weapons with unique abilities, so I took my time gathering and playing with them all via luck mode. Moon Rod, Shield Rod (I generally only used this as a "finishing move" vs bosses that were already about to die), Crissegram, Fist of Tulkas, Heaven Sword, Werebane, Sword of Dawn, Rune Sword, Muramasa etc.

In general, I think I had the best time with Werebane. The rapid special is fun to use and actually gives you a reason to attack on the ground (I hate Igavania bunny hop combat). Combine it with a ranged sword (Heaven Sword, Rune Sword, Chakram) and you can do some interesting things cancelling it. I had a good time with all the weapons though, especially against Galamoth who is probably the one boss who I could fight with the the stronger swords and not feel guilty.

I'm impressed that the morbid atmosphere of the reverse castle was retained for me. The joyless and occasionally blood curdling tunes really do establish an awful mood. On that note, I found it kind of interesting to note how few enemies there are in the upper areas of Reverse Colosseum (especially compared to the placements in normal Colosseum). Seems like they were trying to establish a sense of dread in the area with the scare chord driven music and disquieting abandoned corridors. Interesting to see that sort of thing in a 2d game, and it's a testament to the games audiovisuals that there is a sense of genuine anxiety pervading the area.

The other thing that impressed me was the amount of fun mobility tools Alucard gets halfway through. My main complaint with Aria of Sorrow (when I replayed it last year) was that the game doesn't give you any fun movement enhancing abilities till the very end (Panther Soul...10 minutes from the finish line), which makes the inevitable backtracking feel vacant. The Skill of Wolf and Bat relics here make navigating the Castle into a stylishly technical and joyful exercise.

Also I really wish Nocturne (either version) was the ending theme.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by MintyTheCat »

BIL wrote:MintyTheCat wrote:
yami no shigotonin kage / Shadow of the ninja

What a game! I had no idea that it existed until last week.


Do try its bookending Compact Action Man™ efforts Dragon Fighter and Shatterhand/Tokkyu Shirei Solbrain, if you haven't. Respectively simpler and more intricate, but it's a safe bet that if you like one, you'll appreciate the others. :smile: DF is quite good on normal, but absolutely shines on Hard and is best played that way from the outset; Shatterhand/Solbrain have cosmetic differences and an exclusive stage apiece, but if you're confined to one region, either will do; they're 95% similar otherwise.
Yes, I quite like Shatterhand. Not played Dragon Fighter but will have a look at it. There are just so many really decent platformers on the FC. I actually find myself these last years playign the FC the most but recently getting back into the SFC.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Immryr »

i'm pretty close to getting a one life clear on murasame jou. it's the castle part of level four which still messes me up most frequently, i also don't really have a strategy for the final boss. i'll probably end up doing some save state practicing to try and get more consistency.

i've figured out that the fire ninjas have two bigger gaps in their shield where its easier to get shots through. it still requires good timing to make sure you're dodging their shots and getting lined up with them on time though.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Just bought a Wii and I'm super stoked about playing Rondo of Blood and Shinobi (arcade) on a 15kHz crt in 240p. Hell yeah!

(oh and Ys Books I & II as well. But ithat one doesn't fit in this thread's Modus Operandi)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Oh no, Ys is cool here, as are other topdown action/adventure games like the traditional Zeldas, Story of Thor and Alcahest. Same rationale as Zelda II and Faxanadu being on-topic. :wink:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Ah cool :)

Speaking of Faxanadu : I was chatting with someone about the Bomberman series' music(discussion started around the incredible Bomberman Hero OST), which is all done by Miss Jun Chikuma, and I checked her discography only to realize that she had done the Faxanadu music too. Pretty cool! Especially since I always liked the music in that game, and since it's a super nostalgic cart for me.

Looks like she was the main(or one of the main) Hudson in-house composer, since in addition to writting all the Bomberman music, she also did some Wonderboy music as well.

Man, was Hudsonsoft ever a cool company. They were the first ever thrid-party publisher on the Famicom if memory serves, eh?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

FinalBaton wrote:Speaking of Faxanadu : I was chatting with someone about the Bomberman series' music(discussion started around the incredible Bomberman Hero OST), which is all done by Miss Jun Chikuma, and I checked her discography only to realize that she had done the Faxanadu music too. Pretty cool! Especially since I always liked the music in that game, and since it's a super nostalgic cart for me.
Jun Chikuma's OST really carries Faxanadu's atmosphere in the last couple of areas. Visually I found the stone tunnels a bit disappointing - was expecting something to match the awesomely evil, diseased look of the "trunk" area. Musically though, the tone of corrupted majesty and ruin is dead-on. Between the music and the cruel endgame stage design, it might not look the source of the world-befouling evil, but it absolutely feels it.

Lovecraftian cosmic corruption in a Norse-derived "World Tree" setting is an interesting pairing. Those livid-toned, mist-choked trunk areas make me think The Colour Out Of Space. Even ignoring all the creepy monsters running about! It never quite loses the sense of wrongness, entering a house to find only a gibbering beast scuttling at you. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

BIL wrote:Faxanadu's atmosphere
Oh man... the atmsophere in that game... *italian hand-kissing gesture*
The Land of Mist is my fave area. but all of 'em have killer sound design. And almost all of 'em have killer visual design
The portrayal of a decaying land via mostly über-saturated tones is a visual art tour de force. Un chef-d'oeuvre
BIL wrote:Lovecraftian cosmic corruption in a Norse-derived "World Tree"
That's a very good way to describe it!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Jonny2x4 »

I noticed there were two ROM dumps for Faxanadu. Aside from the different fonts used, the early version seems to allow you to enter a few game-breaking passwords that causes your character's sprite to be messed up. Oddly enough, both versions have the same glitch that causes your character's attack strength to be reduced by half if you get a certain item.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Yes, the damn Pendant. Lol. If I only knew that as a kid... still, I managed to clear the game back then.

Didn't know there were 2 roms of this
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

For the Pendant, my suggestion to fellow neophytes is to clear its dungeon, kill the boss, then leave the damn thing in its corner. The way the glitch works is, you technically have its attack boost by default - picking up the pendant disables the relevant flag, and makes your endgame sword wimpy.

So just consider it, er... some kinda lucky charm to ward off the evil meteorite's debilitating influence. Or some shit. But don't pick it up, just kill the boss to spawn it then GTFO. :lol:

Image Image

At first I was really annoyed, assuming the pendant simply didn't give the intended 2x attack boost, so the endgame stabbing would disappoint either way. It was the awesomely gritty skewer mechanic that sold me on my copy (run enemies clean through for two hits and a violent about-facing shove+stun; add a wall for unbridled butchery), and thinking it suddenly got nerfed halfway through, I actually considered returning it.

However, knowing you can ensure the pointblank brutality stays good by simply avoiding the pendant is ok by me. Feels rushed for sure, but no real harm done. Hell, maybe the earlier game plays snappier than it might've otherwise.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

I do the same, I hunt down that boss and kill it but leave the pendant there.

Yeah as soon as I have the longsword, I get real close to enemies(get in their grill!) and hold down the attack button for the ol' "strike once : harm twice" thing! It's damn satisfying! (I don't remember if you can do it with the dagger. Anyway, I use as soon as available). It's also a risk/reward mechanic since you have to be closer to enemies to pull it off, thus exposing yourself. So it's not cheap either.
That "strike once : harm twice" mechanic when holding down attack button is also something I love in Castlevania : Bloodlines! Just feels soooo damn powerful, like you rip through enemies.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

BIL wrote:At first I was really annoyed, assuming the pendant simply didn't give the intended 2x attack boost, so the endgame stabbing would disappoint either way. It was the awesomely gritty skewer mechanic that sold me on my copy (run enemies clean through for two hits and a violent about-facing shove+stun; add a wall for unbridled butchery), and thinking it suddenly got nerfed halfway through, I actually considered returning it.

However, knowing you can ensure the pointblank brutality stays good by simply avoiding the pendant is ok by me. Feels rushed for sure, but no real harm done. Hell, maybe the earlier game plays snappier than it might've otherwise.
The sources I've seen say that the no-pendant bonus is +25% rather than +100%. You still don't want it, but it's not outright apocalyptic. I do wonder if enemy health values were revised in playtesting to make them nearer to what they were intended to be without the glitch, or if its only major consequence to a knowledgeable player is a bit of extra damage in the first half. I consider the bug a positive thing just because Faxanadu is a bit longer than I'd like and skipping the pendant cuts down on that.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Oh right, thanks! Dunno where I got my figure from. All I know is suddenly I couldn't nail fuckers to the wall with balls-out derring-do anymore, until I learned to leave the blasted thing where it fell.

---

And fuck me dead, I just finished Battle Formula (FC)'s second loop for the first time ever. I gave it a casual go earlier this week, preferring to revisit old favourites rather than seek new pickups atm. As I thought from my previous forays to its last couple stages, it's more of a gag loop. Challenging for sure, but in a lazily mean-spirited way, reductive to the charmingly hyper-ambitious driving/STG hybrid. Its "REVENGE BULLETS EVERYWHERE" exacerbates the previously-benign lifebar slumming, to the point you're not just shrugging the odd insignificant hit mid-swerve, but tanking through unrelenting blizzards of flak to the next HP restore. The game gives absolutely no recognition of clearing the ordeal, at least via 1CC - dropping the player straight back into a fresh loop. 3-1 seemed identical, but regardless, I think I'll leave it there.

Now, Battle Formula could just about wangle its way into this thread imo, being a push-scrolling topdown shooter much like perpetual borderliners Senjou no Okami and Ikari. Or maybe it's Road Fighter with guns, that'd work for me too (even though it's not, really ;3 ). Along these lines, I think Mr. Heli could work too, though I've not put anywhere near the time on it.

However, that's not why I mention it! No, I was thinking of Dragon Fighter, Metal Storm and Spartan X (Game B), all of which exemplify FC looping. In DF and MS's cases, the games simply left more room to grow. DF creates transformative pressure via its revenge bullets and item ban, forcing the player to optimise their technique or face certain death by attrition. Conversely, nothing but calculated lifebar slumming and HP farming will get you through the worst of BF's loop; the deft piloting and shooting technique required to ace the first at suitably ripping speed are largely supports here.

MS's second loop is a calculated redesign, filling out the first's knowing slack: st1's comfy nooks now bristle with sniper turrets, st3's cute monorails are unstoppable stage-bisecting beasts, st6's platforms trade steady descent for pressure-activated plunges. Battle Formula's first loop doesn't have much slack at all; actually, in terms of sheer meanness it's often on par with MS's second, plus the added pressure of imperative advance. "Ever wanted a game-length version of Salamander's escape sequence?" I thought to myself, getting re-acquainted with st6's climactic deathtrap - difference being you can (and really fucking should!) slow down to a crawl until you know its sequence and can slice through at maximum speed. Where I'd forever regard MS sans Loop 2 as unfinished business, I don't think I'd have blinked had BF stayed at its endearingly bungled "PRESETNED BY SUNSOFT."

I say player technique is "largely" relegated to the support of HP farming in BF's loop, due to one exception - its boss battles. Here the revenge bullets (spawning in murderous scads as boss parts explode) actually play an interesting role, since 1) you can't recover HP mid-fight, instantly deterring the slum, and 2) you're in a stable 1v1 arena context, free to make finely-judged shots/dodges without falling afoul of onrushing interference or terrain hazards. I'd keep these, certainly, though again I don't think BF's lack of a great loop is any real loss.

Then there's Spartan X (again stressing Game B), which simply cranks up the collective speed and intensity of its enemy attack, to the point I'm having a pretty warm time just making the fifth. Looped Magician is a motherfucker, or rather, his relentless crowd support is. Spartan X is an inherently simpler, more concentrated sort of action game than Battle Formula, Dragon Fighter or Metal Storm, ofc - undoubtedly better-primed for longterm looping. Regardless, it's really shot up my FC rankings in the last couple weeks. Highly recommended for dead-simple, balls-hard sidescrolling action. I know, hardly the most exotic pick - but then, that's why I never really looked into it all these years, until Stevens' posts on the AC version! Nobody talks about the cheap n' cheerful stuff. Or maybe they just get their asses handed to them and keep mum. I could see no-game pricks doing that. Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

Does the FC version of Faxanadu also have the pendant glitch?

I wonder what the deal is with Battle Formula. I'm under the impression that the game was Sunsoft's own take on Spy Hunter since they licensed the game from Midway in the US and simply decided to release the game without the license in Japan. Super Spy Hunter just has too much in common with the original Spy Hunter to be a JP game that was changed into one for the US. Even the JP version retains the Peter Gunn music and various weapons reference Spy Hunter, as well.

Funny you mention "Road Fighter with Guns", since that description more closely fits the original Spy Hunter.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

BrianC wrote:Does the FC version of Faxanadu also have the pendant glitch?
Yep! Definitely does. It's the only version I've played.
I wonder what the deal is with Battle Formula. I'm under the impression that the game was Sunsoft's own take on Spy Hunter since they licensed the game from Midway in the US and simply decided to release the game without the license in Japan. It just has too much in common with Spy Hunter to be a JP game that was changed into one for the US. Even the JP version retains the Peter Gunn music and various weapons reference Spy Hunter, as well.
It's a curious thing! Totally offhand, I'd guess the costs of acquiring the Spy Hunter IP for Japan outweighed the benefits to Sunsoft, but that'd require Midway to look the other way. Maybe they did? I wonder if those Sunsoft articles (EDIT: here) have anything to say about it. Still not gotten around to the latter-day ones.

They seemed to have a fairly novel relationship with licensees for the NES/FC, did Sunsoft (all the Sega stuff, plus NES-exclusive Midway ports like Spy Hunter and Xenophobe). That and their extensive movie tie-ins.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

BIL wrote: They seemed to have a fairly novel relationship with licensees for the NES/FC, did Sunsoft (all the Sega stuff, plus NES-exclusive Midway ports like Spy Hunter and Xenophobe). That and their extensive movie tie-ins.
Not to mention they also licensed Shanghai from Activision. Shanghai Dragon's Eye even had an arcade version, which was ported to SNES. I was surprised to see the AC version make it to the US though the Arcade Archives on PS4.

edit: Shanghai had a few arcade games from Sunsoft, as well as ports.

Doh, I just had to mention a puzzle game, lol. Too bad Sunsoft couldn't secure the Terminator license. It would be interesting to see what Journey to Silius/Raf World would have been like with it.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Probably exactly the same :)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Jonny2x4 »

What was a Sunsoft's relation with Sega exactly? Not only did they did all those Sega ports on the Famicom (Afterburner II, Fantasy Zone and Alien Syndrome), but they also distributed Quartet 2 (the 2P conversion kit version of Quartet) for them. Moreover, Bay Route and Tough Turf (both Sunsoft games) were distributed by Sega.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Wasn't Super Fantasy Zone done by SunSoft, too?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by soprano1 »

Sumez wrote:Wasn't Super Fantasy Zone done by SunSoft, too?
So it says on Gamefaqs.
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