Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by WelshMegalodon »

Has anyone ever looked into how item drops work in Ghost Chaser Densei? I haven't yet discovered a reliable way of getting enemies to leave them behind, although attacking them while they're down seems to help.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Macaw might be the guy to ask (as he often is!) - I remember a pretty nice Denjin Makai series thread at Gamengai, but it seems the forum's down at the moment. Here's the link for later.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

Gigantic Army got a Switch physical release and even though it was through one of those limited run publishers, there it was on Amazon for me to stumble upon.

I'll be damned if I can work out how to handle the big assault suit that lunges at you with a sword but I'm sure I can figure something out over a few lunchbreaks. Not a huge fan of the weapon system though, I think they should have committed to either the Valken or Leynos route - the short nature of the game and respawning zako/time-pressured nature of gameplay is crying out for the Leynos 2 grading/unlocking system.

Otherwise, very solid stuff so far (nearly took down the final boss on easy mode). brb, destruction!

The Good
* Weighty mech handling, basically feels like playing Valken
* BOOM BOOM BOOM everything explodes satisfyingly
* Main sprite is very nicely animated
* Tasty boss encounters
* Time limit is well used to ensure you keep pushing your destructive path onwards
* Difficulty curve feels just right

The Bad
* No control remapping options so shield is very awkwardly positioned on the A button
* Text scroll storytelling is a far cry from Valken's mission radio chatter. Said chatter is much missed given there's often so much action in the stage backgrounds and some pivotal plot points are covered in a wall of rather po-faced writing
* Limited-use sub-weapons feel a bit meh, I'd rather be able to switch between the main weapons than have a cannon that cheeses past bosses
* Respawning enemies can go a bit funky - an upward scroll occasionally switches one type out with another or spawns something under you as you land, sometimes they just hug the edge of the screen doing nothing

And The Ugly
* Awful sound mix means you need to turn the sound FX right down in the settings, or it feels like your speakers are going to melt
* Some of the mid-bosses lack detail and feel like cardboard cutouts
* Holding fire to lock aiming is a bit awkward compared to Valken's approach
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

I've had a preorder for Switch Gigantic Army lying around with Play-Asia for months now, but it's being held up in an order with a few other games that have been delayed, such as Megan Man Zero :(
Looking forward to finally trying it.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Mortificator »

I think I hate Metal Slug 6. The devs drew a significant number of new enemies for the first time since Metal Slug 3, but excepting the robots with spinning green bullets, they aren't fun to fight. You've got the aliens that recycle Mars People shots, the aliens that recycle the exploding maggots when they're not spinning like Sonic the Hedgehog, the aliens that float across the screen, the aliens that just try to fall on you, and the walking tanks you can walk right into to stop from attacking. Encounter design doesn't do much to mix them up either, usually freezing the scrolling to dump a monotype blob on screen.

The appeal of carrying two weapons in stock is lost when ammo supplies are so severely cut. Depending on the pick-up, you'll get one half, one third, or one quarter the rounds as in prior entries. 10 enemy chaser shots! Those might last three whole seconds! The first two stages are super dull, the third's city has a sad lack of interactivity, the fourth is dominated by an autoscroller, and the last has a terrible digging segment, the antithesis of Metal Slug.

XX is such a turnaround. These stages are PACKED. Fortunately, ammo's restored to normal quantities. I don't know if anyone expected this would be the last Awesome Shooting Action for over a decade, but it was a good note to end on.

There are still some criticisms to make. While level geometry is varied, the whole thing takes place on a garbage dump island, so you don't see the variety of stage themes. It's sometimes trollish with enemies firing the instant they appear on screen. One sequence in particular rivals that murderous bridge from the original Metal Slug's final mission. Enemy planes make constant passes, firing missiles that are tricky to dodge. Your best chance of survival after jumping the first couple is to run & gun for your life, press on, don't stop, destroy everything ahead... and the power-up crate in your path gives you a fucking drop shot.
BIL wrote:Shallow as it sounds, if the graphics weren't so blatantly hacked-together, I'd find it much easier to accept as a "Gaiden" affair. I would say it occupies a similar spot as Dracula XX in my library, but that would actually be incredibly unfair to MS4, as it doesn't screw up character movement or other basic engine details!
:mrgreen: I have similar feelings about Metal Slug Advance. The Pocket games come up with a charming 8-bit style, and while Advance's graphics are technically more advanced, they're just rehashes from the Neo-Geo with tons of frames missing.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

I think this might be the first time I've heard anyone even talk about Metal Slug 6. I tend to forget that game exists - and to be honest, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it in action?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by it290 »

Just played through M2's excellent port of Shinobi for the Switch. Got a 1cc in AGES mode on the first try—yeah, it's too easy, but a nice trial for the real thing. I just wanted to make a PSA about this game because it has a feature I haven't seen widely advertised that makes it a must-buy for Real Ninja Action fans:

The game lets you bind a button for melee-only attacking.

That's right. Just like 6-button mode on the Genesis Shinobi III, you can now play through the game with no risk of ever using a projectile attack when you don't want to. This is definitely the ultimate mode for this game and undoubtedly something players have been dreaming about for years. Do yourself a favor and snag it now!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

I also like what M2 did with Columns 2. They included an endless mode, as well as a mode that gets rid of those annoying skulls. Also, some websites reported that it includes the Genesis Columns, when it actually includes the very similar arcade version.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by KAI »

Image
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Image Image

As an aside, glad to see romhacking.net's still going. Wasn't there some bullshit a few years back? Eh, might be misremembering. Good show either way.

EDIT: aha, bullshit indeed. That's what I was recalling.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Oh hey, the first post is by the dev who made Lizard for the NES. If you haven't played it, it's a really, really fun and strange adventure platformer. Less hardcore action than Battle Kid, more exploration.

http://lizardnes.com
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Lizard is a really cool game, I bought a pack of limited edition white cartridges when it came out for the people over here where I live.

I do have one quite major issue with the game, but I don't think it's worth mentioning here since I've already shared my thoughts with Brad. And if you're playing on an emulator (or the PC version) it really doesn't matter. :)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Aw, don't bring it up and then not mention specifics, that's just a tease!

I assume you're talking about the game's Password system
Spoiler
which is actually functionally useless as it only saves your location and current lizard, aside from one specific lizard that shares its passwords with The Lizard of Knowledge and always reverts to that if you reset and use a password. It does not save your actual progress with the coin collection or what you've found and "completed".

If you don't realize this and beat the game, when you reset as you are forced to in the ending, all coin progress is lost. Learned this the hard way the first time we played on console.

On the plus side, we got the good ending the first time we played it as a group at a meet because we were clever enough to clue in to what you had to do in the ending to avoid the bad ending.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Yeah I don't mind losing boss/overall progress. In fact I prefer it that way, I think it's actually a part of the game's core design. "The true progress" is learning the layout of the game world, not which things you have actually done.

Searching for all the super well hidden coins however, feels really pointless when they are all reset the next time you play the game.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Whoa there, the existence of
Spoiler
bosses
is itself pretty spoilery. :P Or maybe not, I dunno.

I disagree though. Personally, I am good enough at the game that
Spoiler
finding and clearing them all if I have to reset isn't terribly time consuming, but for a new player, someone not very good at platformers, or someone who only has limited time to play, that awful discovery that the password does nothing to help them can be a bit of a nasty trick. I don't even see why passwords exist at all then except to reset to the Lizard of Knowledge at the save point above the Lizard of Lounge so you can talk to Julie.

The real answer is probably that Brad was okay with not giving the player any hints as to if they missed something in the game or not; it seems like he wanted players to feel satisfied without feeling like they'd missed something to do if they beat the game without realizing there was more. Which is fair, completionists or people like me really into the game picked up on the clues that there was more to find in the game without needing handholding.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Spoiler
Several different bosses have been demonstrated numerous times during the games production and in the promotional material, so I don't consider it a spoiler, but fair. :)
The thing is, a lot of coins are so well hidden that if I'd have to go systematically through even the ones I've already picked up I'd definitely forget some, which IMO really clashes with an item that feels like it's intended for completionism.
While I agree that the game doesn't necessarily have to cater to completionists, it kinda does anyway, when one coin might just be lying on the way to pick up with no issues, while another is so obscure that finding it takes ages of poking around potential options.
Maybe if it were a resource that had some immediate value, and the hidden ones having a higher value, it wouldn't matter so much if their state could be saved. But as the game is designed, their primary and only value is completionism.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

The reward you get is a lot of fun though. Have you ever gotten all the coins?
Spoiler
My best is 126 - it looks like you need 125 to trigger the reward, and there's a buffer of 3 coins you can miss. Apparently there's 128 but I'm obviously missing two cause I was unable to locate them.

I'm eventually gonna get a savestate made of the game with all coins collected, no bosses beaten so I can then easily record all the individual endings.
Is it me or does the PC version have a minor glitch where occasionally the screen seems to draw at half the framerate for a few screens or until you die?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:Have you ever gotten all the coins?
I think it goes without saying that I haven't :P
I'm not gonna keep my console running continuously for days for the sake of a collectathon.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by WelshMegalodon »

1CC with Blaze!

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It's incredible how much easier this game is once you have a good grasp on your throw options, and once you get in the habit of reacting more quickly. Being able to recover from throws is ridiculously good, too - it almost feels like a cheat.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

Whoah, someone finally broke the curse on Goemon 2. I'll have to give 3 a shot now. Thanks for posting this!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Last time, on The Space Vietnam 2: Rotary Claymore Boogaloo
LT. COL BOFA wrote:I'm gonna experiment with deliberately aggressive Sword play. Having rewatched my run, I get the feeling the designers really want expert players to rush enemy lines, aggressively deflecting front shots / outrunning backshots. This seems especially apparent in the Final Defensive Line™ blocking your way to the last boss in stage 5.

The trouble is being attacked from multiple angles, but in theory, super-aggressive sword slashing could overcome even that.
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Arf! I was right! Image Hefting the blade to chop (bwaaa!) a healthy nine minutes off my scurred first 1LC, my DOGO adventure is DUNZO. For now! Still a couple snags... namely a freak landscaping mishap in st3's death valley, and three dungeon detours I'm tempted to forego. OTOH, those entrance tiles are harder to work around than they look. Buggers will vaccuum you in, and that would look dumb! Regardless, THOUSANDS OF ALIENS WERE HARMED IN THE MAKING OF THIS VIDEO. Image

Like this little chap! ImageImage

Image
Famicom Instruction Manual wrote:"MIDORI-KO"
Mass-produced amphibious footsoldier. Deployed en masse and as a solo unit. Despite its small stature, it is deadly at close range.
Spoiler
JUST KIDDING, I MADE THAT SHIT UP SO I WOULDN'T FEEL SO BAD SPLATTERING HUNDREDS OF THEM UNDERFOOT (`ω´メ)
SWIMMING ANIMATION IS SO CUTE (;`ω´;) GET OUTTA THERE MIDORI-KUN, I KNOW THEY AINT PAYIN YOU SHIT
Spoiler
Image

REMINDS ME OF CHOU-WAKUSEI METAFIGHTO (^ω´ )
Spoiler
Image


Fuuuck, I love this game. A harshly idiosyncratic tactical deathgrind - distinguished from its similarly grimcore predecessor by the slashing, gashing, frontline-smashing sword. I think it's better considered Ikari's companion piece, rather than its sequel - especially with them sharing a release year, and seemingly an engine. Sharply contrasting takes on a distinct ethos, one reserved, the other rampant. Image

Ala Ikari, the militant trudge won't be for everybody. Absolutely uncompromising. Returning after some Dangun, I tried to casually sidestep an upscreen gunner I was ignoring. LOL NO. Driven into a wall and hacked down by backstabbers. Gun or sword, you've gotta methodically neutralise all hostiles. However, like any decent game, the design cuts both ways - enemies move at the same deliberate pace, giving plenty of time to consider your next move (with the stark exception of GARGOYLEDIVERS, who are nonetheless doomed to a set movement pattern for blasting/baytonetting). As noted previously, very Gain Ground.

---

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BECOME A MASTER WITH YOUR SWORD

^ Good advice - in fact, among the most relevant advice I've found on an arcade flyer. After two stages of rolling bazooka slaughter, blasting countless foes' assholes into ravioli, the sword cracks the bullet-riven remainder wide open. You can (and SHOULD Image) be REALLY aggressive with the deflect mechanic. st3's brutally gunning tanks, st4's teeming fortress, st5's final defensive line - the meaner the trench, the more devastatingly subversive a balls-out banzai charge. Bullets are harrowingly quick in comparison to the trudging character speed, but they're easily batted away on reflex. Smack away falling grenades too, but FFS, don't go for ones that are about to hit paydirt! (there's that walk speed again!)

ATTACK AGGRESSIVELY with 110% GAMSHARA (■`W´■)
Spoiler
Image


GET BODIED, BAT-FUCKS (■`W´■)
Spoiler
Image


They call it a "final defensive line." I call it CONVENIENT (■`W´■)
Spoiler
Image


PLS IGNORE THIS SHITTY-ASS VIDEO - absolutely insane levels of misinformation! Sword is the only reason the game's second half works. They should've really made it a mid-game upgrade, ala Thunder Force IV's NEO WEAPON. But permanent! Be all cinematic, and shit!

I couldn't find footage of the 2P super move. I did find Ralf & Clark yaoi where they "cross their swords" in an entirely different manner, though. Image Lightning shoots out and everything! :o

---

COMPLAINT: Although the deflect mechanic rocks 99% of the time, the last boss breaks it slightly. Since he aggressively pointblanks you, it's possible for deflected bullets to ricochet off him right into your face. The method displayed in-run works pretty well, but feels more harrowing than I'd like. On my first 1LC, I was blissfully unware, and just pianoed the sword nonstop while grenading the shit outta him. I wonder if that might inadvertently prevent a disastrous ricochet. More research required!

EDIT: Also, I was gonna say that shitbird Angel can eat a dick. Image But he's irrelevant now. Image Shafted me on my stage 3 armour AGAIN, spawning it offscreen just like in the previous 1LC! BACK THEN I meekly crept forth, expecting to be cut to ribbons by merciless tank fire. BUT NOW IDGAF, and proceeded to hack down every last motherfucker in my way without breaking stride! Image

---

KONTROL, PART II: If you too are on the PS4 ACA version, I recommend leaving [Grenade] and [Shot] on L1/R1. Put [turn left] and [turn right] on Square and X, respectively, with autofire on "Fastest." This'll let you comfily lash the sword, for the advancing guard shown in the above GIFs. Repeat this pattern for Triangle and Circle, but leave autofire off. This'll give you precision adjustment, great when you absolutely need a diagonal. Finally, use the right stick in spots where you need absolute speed - typically when bayonetting diving Gargoyles, or snuffing backstabber spawns.

As always when playing LS-30 games on a pad, it's a considerable workaround, but one I've found comfy and versatile. It seems to works great in Ikari and T.A.N.K. as well - the latter of which is most definitely not Ikari Zero, despite also starring Ralf. Very different sort of rotary topdown shooter! Ironically, much less tanky than either Ikari or Dogo! It's been rad getting to play this, as a longtime admirer of its rugged FC sequel Great Tank.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bloodreign »


I have been waiting for these! Only 4 left to finish up for that crew, and that Ebisumaru puzzler is also done, but not yet a patch released for it.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

BIL wrote:Dogo stuff.
Great work man. Did you ever pick up the ls 32?

I always wondered if the latter half of Dogo was possible sans sword, but I don't think it is.

After I recover from my From Software coma I should give Dogo another go.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Thanks! I'm sticking with the PS4 pad for now, my mad scientist ambitions will wait. :mrgreen:

I think it'd be technically possible to reach the last boss sans sword, but it'd be utterly miserable going - the last boss himself even moreso. From the st2 boss onward, the game is expressly designed around sword-wielding players charging headlong into gunfire. I wish Drum was still around. Image I'm tempted to say it's really gutsy design for 1986, and an elegant subversion of the characters' low speed (can't run! :shock: MUST KILL Image), but I'm sure he knows a nice antecedent from a decade earlier.

SWORDS MAN by BIG NIPPON TRANSISTOR CO, or something. Image

I want to go back and experiment with the last boss. Despite his hyper-aggressive zoning and shooting, he's very positionally malleable. With basic bullet-streaming you can bully him right up off the screen, though eventually you're gonna have to dodge a claw. I bet it's possible to Red Grenade him to death without deflecting, with skilled exploitation. My current pattern is to lead him across to the left, then deflect and down to the right, where he'll usually succumb to the angled grenade barrage. As mentioned, a bit more fraught than I like. The run before this one ended in a friggin double KO. Image

Timing your cut through the stream so he's swinging away from the deflected shots seems to help. I wonder if I'm overthinking it. Previous 1LC's EZ piano deflection felt like a giveaway after much SCURRED creeping, but it might've been mere luck.

Dream Game Hackz OMAKE: I'd have equipped the player with red grenades and a bazooka by default, limiting ammo ala Ikari (ie: you get truckloads, more than enough to kill everything on sight, but you'll need to avoid spamming). Keep the rifle and boomerangs as swappable replacements for bazooka. Nix the sword bullets, then make it a permanent upgrade received at the second boss (I really like how Dogo holds it back in favour of an opening bazooka rampage). Also add some sword-wielding enemies, replace some of the last two stages' repetitive Gargoylediver formations with 'em.

Also, it's not a big priority (I enjoy the "roped into space The Running Man" premise), but I'd like to see an Earth-based alternate art set, just to make the aesthetic disconnect with Ikari less stark. Make the enemy force some technologically advanced hermit kingdom, or some shit. I really want those goofy bullet-barfing croco-men to be army dudes with stationary guns. Also, turn Gargoyledivers into the DECO Jetpack Guys™. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

WelshMegalodon wrote:Being able to recover from throws is ridiculously good, too - it almost feels like a cheat.
I feel really bad for people who go a long time without reading the game manual and don't realize recovering from enemy throws is a thing (it's not something you'd find on your own as there's no ingame instructions). It's definitely not a cheat though, lots of enemies have slamming throws that can't be recovered out of. :lol: Congrats on the 1CC.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by ACSeraph »

So... P.O.W. (AC) by SNK. Love the vibe, but It's pretty tough. I game overed my first credit without ever leaving the prison shack. "He's trying to escape!" *BANG* [realistic ending, roll credits]. I can make it quite a bit further now obviously, but has anyone put any serious time into this and can direct me to some good info on advanced combat and strategies?
<STG.1cc> 死ぬがよい <ACT.1cc>
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

That one's supposed to be getting an ACA release soon, planning to check it out! I like the FC conversion. Middling stage design, and a couple dumb cheapshots from offscreen bikers to memorise - but the combat has a nice snap to it, and it too has some great atmosphere.

(the guards' conspicuous shortage of firearms niggles at first, but I have authored a superb cognitive workaround! suffice to say this game takes place in the same country as Ikari III :cool:)

One of those games that has the raw materials but needed better arranging.

On a minor SNK R2RKMF kick lately. Ikari, Dogo and TANK are superb. Psycho Soldier's SonSon-esque seems to have potential, only put a few credits on it.

Athena has some hideous technical flaws (moving left triggers the worst screen edge-riding I've ever seen in my god damn life...), and is possibly the weakest game I've spent money in the last decade, but it's perversely addictive building the god-awful starter character into something usable. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

BIL wrote: Psycho Soldier's SonSon-esque seems to have potential, only put a few credits on it.
One of my favorites from old school SNK that isn't Ikari 1 or 2. That one is a lot of fun when you get into it.


ACSeraph wrote:So... P.O.W. (AC) by SNK. Love the vibe, but It's pretty tough. I game overed my first credit without ever leaving the prison shack. "He's trying to escape!" *BANG* [realistic ending, roll credits]. I can make it quite a bit further now obviously, but has anyone put any serious time into this and can direct me to some good info on advanced combat and strategies?
Pretty much agree with everything you say here, but the game desperately needs more moves. Lack of a grapple really hurts POW and you're reduced (if memory serves me correctly) trying to stun lock tougher enemies with kicks.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

And then there's the FC/NES port of Athena that tones down the difficulty somewhat, but is still let down by technical flaws, including some that aren't in the AC version.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by it290 »

No one else on the Shinobi hype train yet huh? I'm gonna be spending a while just trying to get the normal mode clear, but man the melee mode makes it incredibly fun in the best possible way. Don't sleep on it!
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