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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:00 pm 


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I used to 1cc the game on the regular, sometimes even back to back depending on how much free time I had. I miss my old D&D:SoM buddies as well, I sent them an e-mail hoping maybe we could play together online.

Here's some tips & tricks/observations about the XBLA version:

If you have an option to use a mic/headset, it'll be very handy in talking to your 4 player party.

The monitor settings for filters (smoothing/none/crisp), scanlines, and monitor resizing are AWESOME. They give the ability to remap buttons, so pretty good.

I really like the Quick Match where you can jump into a party of 4. There's the typical gamer who just spams the life draining attacks...but again, use your mic to tell them to knock it off and not just be a credit feeder. LOL.

Buy burning oils/large burning oils and hammers. Hammers are great for stunning bosses and you can just let them out in a stream. Plus the burning oil trick on the shadow elf/manticore and other bosses. Knock down the boss, launch a burning oil, hit the boss on the ground and then the hit and burning oil hit will register at the same time. When you finally get to buying large burning oils, you can use that to hit the boss on the ground to do MASSIVE damage. This trick also works on Synn/other dragons.

String your combo moves together...quarter circle forward +A, quickly move down then up + A. For your air attack, upon landing on the ground do quarter circle forward +A. Double tap +A heavy attack to reset.

To quickly pick up gold and other items, do the ground dash movement by using QCF+ B (Jump) you'll be able to pick up gold, gems, and spells by quickly ground dashing in a straight line. This can be repeated over and over.

Also stick to the "if I die, I reset" leave the party and go for another game. This will keep the game fresh and not feel like a credit feeder. Keep that 1cc mentality on and this game will richly reward you like a good SHMUP!

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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:53 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
CptRansom wrote:
CMoon wrote:
Played it a bit last night and have to admit I'd be impressed with a 1cc. Not saying it isn't possible, but there are so many places where the game just cheeses you. Trust me, I love this game to bits but it is rarely fair in a shmups kind of way.


Zeron has a Fighter 1CC of SoM posted. =) Very impressive stuff!!

ReplayBurners has quite a few 1CCs of SoM with various classes. Certainly worth watching.


Great stuff! Hadn't thought 1cc'ing it with one character was an option, but I watched the first one and was impressed.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:40 pm 


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emphatic wrote:
Is it true this game (XBLA port) doesn't recognize fight sticks?


Works fine for me. How could that be possible anyway if the dashboard menus work with said stick?

The "house rules" options are a nice idea.
One of them makes you unable to continue but it's described as a survival competition (burning oil PVP :lol:) and another is a time attack mode where you need to keep killing enemies in max. 30 second intervals or you'll game over.

If anyone in europe wants to play on XBL hit me up, never played the games before but feels like its fairly easy to get the hang of things. About the only gripe I have is how few enemy/boss types are introduced in mystara compared to tower of doom, but that's not the ports fault :p


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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:38 pm 


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Beat SoM yesterday, great stuff. Had pretty smooth online too. Anyone can add me if we want to do a shmup 4P throwdown(may want to schedule it though).
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:06 am 


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Played the demo on 360, this is an arcade port done with an astonishing amount of love and polish.

I am scheming with a co-worker to get this on PSN so we can play together.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:00 am 


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CMoon wrote:
Ruldra wrote:
If someone's planning to 1cc this


Played it a bit last night and have to admit I'd be impressed with a 1cc. Not saying it isn't possible, but there are so many places where the game just cheeses you. Trust me, I love this game to bits but it is rarely fair in a shmups kind of way. That said, with more players the game becomes remarkably easier. I think a team of 4 could possibly beat it with one credit each, but even that would be really hard.


The game never "cheeses" you. If anything, it gives tons of stuff for players to cheese the game (items are extremely powerful and let you destroy most bosses with a bit of planning, tons of defensive options and mobility, very strong magic, etc). 1CCs in single player are entirely doable with any character, Magic User and Cleric being the easiest due to all the bullshit they can pull off. Watch a few replays for effective anti-boss tactics, learn some crowd control and you are good to go.

I've been working a bit with Magic User lately and with very little practice I can get to the Ogre Bros, once I get that down I should be getting far since what comes afterwards is not that hard.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:20 pm 


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I tried this a while ago; loved the detail the game had, certainly a large learning curve though. The game difficulty seems to take a huge jump at the bosses - unless you're prepared and know what you're doing, they can seriously mess you up.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:20 pm 


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Is it just me or is the shield and counter attack much more useful in Tower of Doom? that and the crouch + attack when rising (less spammable than the GCF+A in mystara) make ToD interesting imo.

Playing mystara online with magic users/elves who die a lot and proceed use all their 15 spells immediately when they respawn is getting on my nerves lol. Going to try and host some no continues games.


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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:01 pm 


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The shield is plenty useful on SOM. You can block nearly every single attack in the game (I think there's something like 5 things you can't block) with it. You can also cancel your attacks with it for safety. The rising attack more than less spammable is just less useful, thanks to TOD's archaic combo system. It's less useful for mobility / repositioning too.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:34 pm 


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Hagane wrote:

The game never "cheeses" you. If anything, it gives tons of stuff for players to cheese the game


I won't fight you man, some of those videos totally opened my eyes!
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:22 am 


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Which difficulty in the XBLA version corresponds to the default arcade setting? The hardest one?
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:51 am 


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Um, just to confirm, Tower of Doom is included (in physical release?) because whenever I look at preorder info or articles only Mystara is mentioned.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:14 am 


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Shadow Over Mystara is the one that gets top billing because it's the most-known one. In the XBLA version at least, SOM is the default game, but using the back button switches between both games. When they talk about physical release, it's usually referred to as "D&D: Chronicles of Mystara" which includes both games set in that universe, Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:34 am 


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Cool, I just wanted to make sure it was actually on there.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:16 pm 


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I'm starting to regret buying this. I won't feel so bad about emulating it now that I've actually paid for a copy, but I cannot for the life of me enjoy this game.

I hate how stiff the combat feels. I hate the inputs for specials feeling unresponsive, and heavy attack being ->A meaning it's hard to quickly turn and fast attack. I hate how slow the default walking speed for everyone is. I hate how powerful expendable items are compared to your basic moveset and how boss combo setups seem to rely a lot on throwing hammer -> juggles or burning oil. And I fucking hate all the goddamn coins that drop everywhere so if I don't remember to keep sliding over them I'll be accidentally be picking up the equivalent of pennies all the time.

I'm trying to like it, I've seen tons of combo videos for it, but it's like I'm simply not 'getting' it, which is frankly embarrassing to me because I'm a big fan of beat 'em ups. What the fuck am I missing here? Maybe I'm spoiled by faster beat 'em ups that rely on a strong character moveset over expendable items, I don't know, but it's annoying me that I want to like this game and I simply can't. Even the first boss feels more annoying than your usual beat 'em up due to the wonky hit detection on the front of the cart.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:26 pm 


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BareknuckleRoo wrote:
I don't know, but it's annoying me that I want to like this game and I simply can't.


It's alright, not everyone likes every game.

I'm not a fan either. Can't jump vertically drives me up the walls, no moveset growth, auto-hit magic, the second game is nonstop static platform stages... solid for a few playthroughs, but not own-worthy.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:08 pm 


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I'm not quite prepared to give up on it just yet; apparently blocking seems to give you invulnerability frames for a few seconds after an attack collides. Instead of pressing forward for the counterattack, it actually seems better to block, release the block the moment you're hit and go into a normal attack combo. Managed to get to the Shadow Elf boss before dying in MAME.

I also seem to play a lot better on a keyboard. ._.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:16 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
I'm not a fan either. Can't jump vertically drives me up the walls, no moveset growth, auto-hit magic, the second game is nonstop static platform stages... solid for a few playthroughs, but not own-worthy.


I can't make any sense out of these complaints.

Roo: haven't tried the port, but the inputs on MAME are as responsive as they get. Not different at all from any other Capcom belt scroller with those motions. Give it a go on MAME and see if there's any difference, otherwise I just can't agree with you. I never get hard attacks while turning around and attacking, but in any case they are empty cancelable with shields, backdashes and probably more stuff.

If walk speed seems slow, use quarter circle forward + Attack/Jump for faster movement, or just plain dashing. Basic movesets are perfectly fine. They might seem underpowered compared to items because, well, items are dumb, but you can do fine with your regular moves (Korean players on GGPO tend to avoid buying items, even potions, check them out sometime). There's a lot of juggle potential and damage even without items. Running into an enemy hits it, and that can be used to extend combos (and that running hit can even be canceled), and some character's "nothing" attacks (select "nothing" on the item menu and then press the item/magic button), particularly the Magic User's, are also a great way to get more hits in. You can even do some fancy stuff like multiple crossup running attacks, pseudo infinites, OTGs into juggles, etc.

The first boss fight seems harder than usual because it's harder than usual. It has several tricky attacks and it's easy to get hit if you are careless. Every character has a solid strategy against it, but in general you want to kill the goblins that push the cart (it will make it stop moving), and then give it a good beating before the goblins regroup. If your character has a shield, just block and counter attack.

I don't know which faster beat'em ups you are used to, but I play mostly The Punisher, Alien vs. Predator and Armored Warriors and can't see the issues you mention. My only complaints are items being absurdly overpowered, game length being a tad too long (because it has too many stages, not because it's slow) and character balance could use some fixing (Magic User and Cleric are extremely overpowered compared to the rest of the cast). Otherwise it's one of Capcom's best, with an excellent and deep combo system, great open ended level design, lots of character diversity and fun stuff to do.

What character are you using? Maybe I could give you some more specific pointers that way. Also, defensive options work somewhat differently from other beat'em ups and that might take some time to adjust to (no throws and their usual invincibility and crowd control uses, magic invincibility, fast movement and shields / invincible backdashes to make up for them).
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:35 pm 


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I'm not sure about the port's difficulty setting vs MAME, the first boss seems faster at the hardest setting than in MAME on defaults. So far I find myself leaning towards Dwarf (love that Down Up Attack) but I'm also liking the Thief's mobility and doublejumping. I find myself shying away from spellcasters because I'm not sure yet about when basic enemies are worth burning up spells, how many I need to safely deal with bosses, etc, although I do also try out Elf and Cleric occasionally.

The whole running into enemies being an attack has thrown me off a bit too, instead of being able to run through a crowd or run to an enemy, grab + throw for invulnerability frames, the running attack here seems to have less safety. I managed to do the burning oil trick against a few bosses, it's incredibly silly to see. Backdashes seem difficult to perform if you're standing still, I find myself jumping instead. Are they more intended as a cancel out of attacks? What weapons should I stockpile? I find myself getting arrows and daggers and never knowing which I should be keeping if I'm running low on space (due to carrying spell rings like CSW).
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:27 pm 


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As for spell use, ideally you want to spend them on boss fights, save a few exceptions (like the gargoyles that can only be damaged by spells or magic weapons). You need to see them as a defensive tool besides their obvious damage dealing use; don't just spam them to get damage in, time them to avoid dangerous boss attacks. You are fully invincible during their animations, and enemy projectiles / spells keep animating, so you'll avoid them if you time your magic correctly. You can also use them to hit bosses out of their melee attacks (like the Harpy at stage 4 or Man Scorpion at stage 3), knock them down and go for OTG attacks.

Magic replenishes periodically (IIRC every time you get to a item store). So if you are about to get a replenish, you have more freedom to spend spells.

The Thief and Dwarf are the hardest characters to effectively use in the game. They are powerful on the right hands, but they take more effort than the rest of the cast. The Thief is particularly execution intensive, but has excellent combo potential and can be very damaging if you can perform her grab glitch consistently (do back/forward + attack repeatedly during her qcf+Attack move - you'll see her cancel her attack animation and grab a nearby grab-able enemy).

The Cleric is the best along with the Magic user. He has everything. Magic, shield, combos, damage, and the Morning Star weapon is devastating. The Bless buff spell makes everything hurt very hard, he can move around extremely fast with qcf+A, his damage output in general is obscene. The healing is a nice bonus, too. He's a great character to start with.

The Elf is a solid all around character. She has great defensive options thanks to the shield and magic, even if she can't get as many spells or damage out of them. Great combo potential thanks to running attack crossups / cancels / juggles. Takes more effort than the top tiers, but is a good pick for an 1CC.

As for backdashes (or back jumping in the case of the Elf, Fighter and Cleric), you get a jump during runs, but you can cancel running recovery, walking or pretty much any attack with them. Always do a fast double tap to ensure they come out, the timing is rather strict. They are excellent if you get used to them though, as they let you make attacks safer and let you reposition if you see you are getting surrounded.

Running attacks can be canceled with regular attacks (I think only at startup), if you really want to get away / reposition when enemies are nearby you could use backdashes, slides or qcf+A instead.

The best weapon items are the Burning Oils (particularly the large ones you get later, just knock boss down and spam them for a hilarious speedkill). Daggers and Hammers are more situational, but in the boss fights they are good they are devastating (for example, against the Harpy opening with a flurry of daggers just as the fight starts and then rushing her down after you knock her down). Arrows don't matter that much IIRC, except the fire one, of which you need only one for the Elf since there's a bug that doesn't take them from away from your inventory if you shoot them mid-air. Hilarious infinite against the Lich coupled with the levitation boots/spell. Other than that the Elf has infinite regular arrows and the Thief has an infinite sling that behaves similarly.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:15 pm 


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Hagane wrote:
Magic replenishes periodically (IIRC every time you get to a item store). So if you are about to get a replenish, you have more freedom to spend spells.


Every time you level up, actually. In ToD you automatically level up after each stage, but in SoM you need the required XP.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:19 pm 


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I just noticed that Cleric has Turn Undead as a free J+A. That's actually pretty useful; does it work against the Lich? Hahaha. Thanks for the rest of the info. I'll try to stick with the game, although I still find myself liking the pace of a game more like Battle Circuit or AvP, I suspect that SoM is a lot more fun with multiple players too for combo setups, spell benefits, etc, and I'm still not comfortable with quick item switching.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:07 am 


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While Turn Undead is an useful ability, you get no XP for destroying undead this way, so I'm guessing abusing it too much could hamper level progression.

By the way, after so much time spent with the game, I can't believe ONLY NOW I found out that you can block the War Machine's charge. I feel stupid...although that didn't look like a blockable attack.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:10 am 


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OK, I'm curious why the Dwarf is considered a more difficult character, and I'm asking for a good reason...this is the character I always end up playing.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:29 am 


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CMoon wrote:
OK, I'm curious why the Dwarf is considered a more difficult character, and I'm asking for a good reason...this is the character I always end up playing.


Probably a lack of magic, poor backdash (that roll is really short compared to Thief's backflip or Mage's teleport backdash), slow walking speed... He's got really good physical damage and starts with a lot of HP though, it's just you need to really know how to compensate for his lack of speed (get used to running/dashing everywhere).
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:35 am 


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Ruldra wrote:
Every time you level up, actually. In ToD you automatically level up after each stage, but in SoM you need the required XP.


Magic recovery is at item stores, level ups let you use higher level magic. The Elf stops leveling up pretty early and still gets magic replenishes, otherwise she would end up magicless very fast. Also you always level up at the same fixed spots, the XP is more of a score counter than anything else.

The Dwarf is good, he's just not as broken as the rest of the characters mainly.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:04 pm 


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If XP is only a score counter then that's great news. That means you don't need to finish levels quickly to get a level up and replenish spells like I originally thought. Also means you can spam Turn Undead to your heart's content.
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:16 am 


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I think this hasn't been mentioned here, is everybody aware that the retail version is not the same as the download version? The retail game is being developed by an internal Capcom team with some of the original game creators on board. See here: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=594751

And has anyone already preordered the Limited Edition? Where can I get it?
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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:51 am 



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antares wrote:
I think this hasn't been mentioned here, is everybody aware that the retail version is not the same as the download version? The retail game is being developed by an internal Capcom team with some of the original game creators on board. See here: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=594751

And has anyone already preordered the Limited Edition? Where can I get it?

Been discussed in page 2. I've ordered the LE on Nippon Yasan for 12500¥ plus shipping. Best price so far.
It is a shame that the game is going to be overshadowed by Dragons Crown, which by far will have a shity gameplay (wont be deep enough) but due to its eye candy visuals will atract more people for sure.
Shame on them.


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 Post subject: Re: D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara to PSN/XBLA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:59 pm 


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Thanks for the link. I got rid of my Saturn version years ago and was looking to re-buy it, but I'll take this beautiful package with zero-loading and four player mode instead. :D

My only concern with the physical version being developed internally by Capcom is that they will screw something up. Iron Galaxy have an excellent track record with their conversions and they are constantly improving them in terms of patches to keep up to date with the latest net code improvements. Do we know what the differences are between the two versions? Will they still have all the scanline/filter options?


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