The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17646
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Skykid »

MX7 wrote:I think Umihara Kawase is very similar to a lot of STGs: you really get out of it what you put in. Someone once said (on the old ikaruga.co.uk forum that you only really start to understand Ikaruga after ~400 hours of play. Now, I haven't sunk that much time into Ikaruga, or indeed any other game, but I have with Umihara Kawase. If the controls seem clunk at first, it's because you are being given a tool-set with absolute flexibility. Consider it like learning to play the guitar. At first, your hands will numbly fumble with even the most basic chords. As time goes on and you commit these actions to muscle memory, the chords shapes become essentially subconscious. It's exactly the same with Umihara Kawase. As you become familiar with basic techniques (the Tarzan swing, the wall climb, the rocket jump), you find yourself messing around with variations of these techniques, showboating, and honing them to perfection. In the Zelda games, for example, you face an insurmountable obstacle and must obtain an item to render it passable. In Umi, you can theoretically do everything from the outset: the only thing holding you back is your skill.

As you progress, the initial flaws start to seem insignificant. Many of the more frustrating parts can be bypassed entirely. The tadpole boss is a bore, sure, but on the shortest (and in my opinion best) route you don't have to fight it at all. Most enemies can also be bypassed entirely, though it takes practice.

The graphics and music are odd. And I love them. The fuzzy black and white sea scapes are like something out of a dream. The music seems weirdly contrapuntal to the game's punitive difficulty. If the foreground graphics seem a bit drab, it's because anything else would detract and distract from the often pixel perfect rope-work required.

It's not for everyone, but that's what makes it so good. It requires a ridiculous amount of investment on behalf of the player. It divulges nothing of the high level techniques required to finish the harder routes (though the strategy guide goes some way to address this, though i can't read my copy cus it's all in moon). There's no prescribed way to play it (making it the ultimate sandbox game!). It doesn't bill itself as an 'experience', it just is a perfectly executed set of tools for pinging a girl from A to B (or D if you've practiced hard enough) in the fastest time possible. It's the only game I've ever played that has encapsulated the joy and satisfaction of learning a musical instrument. Other games simply feel like you're pushing buttons to make stuff happen. Blam blam blam. There is a disconnect between the player and the game. Umihara Kawase forces you to learn how to move in such a fluid manner until it really does feel like you have total synergy with the game. It's the antithesis of something like Bayonetta, where you're placed in charge of a seemingly omnipotent character. You just mash buttons to blow stuff up. In Umihara Kawase, you have to earn that feeling of omnipotance, and when you do, it is a feeling unrivalled by any game I've ever played.
Well colour me convinced!

I'd still say there's an argument to be had that if you spend 400 hours with any game, your mastery of it is going to push the enjoyment factor up, but your post certainly manages to clarify what it is about the core physics that become so enjoyable. Also, that it's probably the most unlikely game ever to be ported to PSX and NDS must count for something too.

I'm not sure if I'll ever agree on the graphics and music being anything except sub-par, that sounds as though you may be seeing/hearing what you want to there. I don't mind the sprite work, and appreciate the foreground objects require simplicity, but the backgrounds are terribad to the point where not even imagination can do much for them, and the soundtrack only has three or four average tracks iirc.

It sounds as though I'll need to attack Umihara with renewed vigour, however, if the skill-based reward ends up being that much of a buzz. Thanks for that detailed review Mike. :wink:
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
R-Gray 1
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:02 pm
Location: Juda Central System - Secilia(ok im from Perú xD)

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by R-Gray 1 »

Snes was my favourite console of all the time because of lot of games for fun :) and I had one since I was 11. I can mention a lot of snes games but my english sucks xd. Until now I can remember lots of SNES games Osts.

Final fight was amazing, i like a lot its music and sound effects. Really so simple game mechanics but i like it. I like how the characters go in the town to fight with all that bad guys in different places like the subway. The enemies like elgado, andore the fat guys, poison fits perfect in the game. Even I like this game more than other ff games: FF1>FF3>FF2.

Street fighter ( II, turbo, Super) and Mortal Kombat games (2 and 3). Great games. For me the sound is awesome in the snes and the gamepad is excellent in this games. Snes did not need a special controller :) SF alpha 2 is a good port not the best but is ok. I read or even listen some people who say sfalpha 2 snes game is a terrible bad game. Common sure they played it on emulator. It is not too bad.

MMX was a great move of Capcom. A new way to play with the classic rockman. climb walls, dash, armor pieces, more action.

Donkey Kong Country 2 what a beautiful stages and challenging game to find all the tokens and DK coins. (specially around mid of 90s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQrShUKw4SQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpa-4XCvrro specially 0:29 and 3:02
and u can watch bramble scramble, haunted hall or web woods.

action games like Contra III and Sunset riders
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0wRo7Ur0LA agree that is the best stage!
User avatar
ChainsawGuitarSP
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:25 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by ChainsawGuitarSP »

Skykid, have you ever considered writing for IGN.com?
Innovations in Recreational Electronic Media
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by BIL »

EmperorIng wrote:A thing I enjoy about the game is its classic 90s (and 80s of course!) aesthetic of making enemies as bizarre as possible. You have your Stone Cold Steve Austin thugs, your Mr. Big-esque huge dudes in classy suits, your kung-fu masters, your impish wolverine guys, your Saddam Hussein wannabes...
Speaking of which! Must suck to take an atomic drop from a 7ft 1,500lb robot.

Image

First time making it to stage 5 on Hard as Ninja. I should know better than to play this game when I've got stuff to do - spent all morning trying out all three characters in Hard difficulty. I've not cleared this mode with any, and got my ass handed to me by stage 5 or so every time, but man was it fun. Good thing the holidays are coming up.

The variety amongst the three characters is truly exceptional work by Natsume. Kunoichi and Kamaitachi's many divergences from their common model would be considerable as it is, but Ninja puts the replay value through the roof. Even just going between K & K I'd find myself getting swarmed, thinking "how'd I get myself into this?!" before remembering I've been playing one as the other and completely ignoring Kunoichi's devastating grapples and air combo, or Kamaitachi's apropos scamper-and-slash crouchrunning attacks.

My favourite boss is the chainsaw-wielding cyborg fireman - now that's some rad shit when he enters in a hail of sparks, sawing a blast door in half and batting its debris away like balsa wood.

It's too bad only the first boss has an awesome death animation, but the later ones make up for that with their orbital laser weapons, stealth camo, freakish extendo-limbs and so on. Green blood is also a minor downer, but with combat this intense it's natural and advisable to regard it as a hitspark first and foremost. The real brutality is in the screen-rattling slam impacts and war-ravaged cityscapes, anyway, and gore wouldn't fit this game's colourful style any more than it would Wild Guns'.
User avatar
Ruldra
Posts: 4222
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:27 am
Location: Brazil

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Ruldra »

Has Shiren the Wanderer been mentioned yet? Such a fantastic game.

And Treasure of the Rudras is the best RPG I ever played in my life. Made by Squaresoft back in its glory days.
[Youtube | 1cc list | Steam]
mastermx wrote:
xorthen wrote:You guys are some hardcore MOFOs and masochists.
This is the biggest compliment you can give to people on this forum.
User avatar
Ruldra
Posts: 4222
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:27 am
Location: Brazil

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Ruldra »

All this talk about Umihara Kawase made me give it a try, never heard of it before. It's certainly an unique game, I liked it, but man it needs some SPEED...the boss fights take forever to end :?

Got to the boss on stage 8, then I was sent straight to stage 14, then on stage 16 or 17 I found another door that sent me straight to stage 40! Surprise, another boss fight.

How many stages this game has? Will try to finish it without looking at any spoilers or videos.
[Youtube | 1cc list | Steam]
mastermx wrote:
xorthen wrote:You guys are some hardcore MOFOs and masochists.
This is the biggest compliment you can give to people on this forum.
User avatar
louisg
Posts: 2897
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:27 pm
Location: outer richmond
Contact:

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by louisg »

I haven't played Umihara much, but it also should be put into historical perspective: Back in the early 90s, there weren't many physics-based platformers like that. With the indie game scene, there's a lot now, but even as recent as the late 90s Umihara was still a novelty.
Humans, think about what you have done
User avatar
Obiwanshinobi
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

With Umihara Kawase, Super Famicom did what Blast Processing™ didn't. Apparently CPU does a formidable job there.
Also, the protagonist reminds me of Liza Minnelli and Margot Käßmann. Can't be helped.
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off

Image
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by BIL »

In case it's of interest to other Valken fans, here's a few scans of related art from Satoshi Urushihara. They seem to appear and disappear on the web, finally got sick of bookmarks dying and grabbed a torrent of his Cel Works. Annoyingly there was a much higher-res set than this, will have to look around. And yep, these and Langrisser's were the only pieces out of hundreds that weren't hentai. I... don't think there was Langrisser hentai in there, anyway. Don't really know the series tbh!

Image

Image

Image

Image

spoiler - ending a

spoiler - ending b
User avatar
Obiwanshinobi
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

BIL wrote:I... don't think there was Langrisser hentai in there, anyway. Don't really know the series tbh!
In one of the official artbooks I saw scanned, there's a picture of seemingly all female characters nude. No real smut, just naked women.
You can tell those best pornographers are into women, not just their anatomy.
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off

Image
User avatar
Ganelon
Posts: 4413
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:43 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Ganelon »

Unfortunately, there is Langrisser hentai but those pieces are only on Urushihara's personal site (i.e. not in Cell Works) and never mention Langrisser directly. They clearly feature the same female characters in explicit situations. It's unfortunate because Urushihara is my favorite anime artist, and he gets typecast as solely for hentai because he focuses so much on it even though he's amazing at drawing pretty much anything. For anybody interested in his art, Growlanser Art Works is coming to the US next March and can be pre-ordered from Amazon now.

Speaking of Langrisser, I'm not a big fan of Der Langrisser due to its diminished visuals and music compared to MD Langrisser II. However, as far as I'm aware, it was the first RPG to offer significant branches in story with game choices.
User avatar
steveovig
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:13 am
Location: Youngstown, OH

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by steveovig »

A few weeks ago, I came to the realization that I really don't need to focus on newer console games when there's still so many SNES games I haven't played that will satisfy me. I dusted off my old yellow SNES from 1991 and found my copy of Darius Twin and went to town. Thanks to two local stores, I've picked up the following...

Wordtris-hate it because it doesn't save scores
Super Double Dragon-already beat it and loved it
Gradius 3-Nice but hard
Starfox-beat it finally after 18 years
Super Chase HQ-Meh but I think it saved my score
Aero the Acrobat-Nice but it doesn't let me continue from the level I was on
Yoshi's Island-got it off ebay and I'm loving it, I played the original, the GBA version, and the 3DS VC version but never beat it and now I'm determined to do so

Plus, I bought Super Bonk from the Wii VC. Besides VC stuff, specifically I want to track down Yoshi's Cookie, DKC 1 and 3, and Illusion of Gaia, and maybe someday, Earthbound.

I have been looking into getting a Super Famicom too. What's the best way to get one, just ebay? Do you guys think it'd be a worthwhile investment for me to make? Basically, what I mean to say is does the SFC have any worthwhile games that aren't heavy on the Japanese and are only available in Japan?
User avatar
drauch
Posts: 5638
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by drauch »

You can also just mod your SNES to play SFC games in like 30 seconds. Probably the easiest system "mod" there is. And yeah, tons of exclusives. A lot of really good stuff has already been mentioned in earlier pages.
BIL wrote: "Small sack, LOTS OF CUM" - Nikola Tesla
User avatar
Obiwanshinobi
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

No idea about prices of the stuff I'd like to own, but I wouldn't get into collecting expensive carts without RGB-modding the machine and making sure your CRT displays RGB properly.
If you can't be bothered, the emulation is dreamy nowadays (you don't even need to play emulated games on PC if you have any problem with it).
Many Super Famicom games are fan-translated at this point. Some, like Chrono Trigger, are cases of missing the point, but some other, such as Rudra no Hihou, are playable at last.
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off

Image
User avatar
Hagane
Posts: 1666
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 2:12 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Hagane »

Ganelon wrote:The issue with Ryuko is that outside of the low life requirement, there's no difference between specials and supers for all intents and purposes. They all use stamina, some specials more than others. If low life is the key, then any game with desperation attacks would count as a super as well. Does that count? Well, that's why it's a grey area.
I don't see any issue. Supers in AoF are clearly differentiated from specials - they require 75% of spirit bar (much more than other special attacks; which can still be executed without spirit bar, at a much reduced power level), low life and are much more powerful than specials. That's the key, supers are a tier above specials in terms of power, and demand some extra requirement(s) to be executed.

I'm also not sure Hiryu games really qualify as fighting games, though they definitely could have influenced them.

By the way, I don't know why Satoshi Rubberdoll McSameface Usushihara is held in such high regard, his stuff is as generic as it gets. I guess it's the fanservice.
User avatar
drauch
Posts: 5638
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by drauch »

Because he draws boobs better than anyone ever.
BIL wrote: "Small sack, LOTS OF CUM" - Nikola Tesla
User avatar
Hagane
Posts: 1666
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 2:12 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Hagane »

Not even that, and his knowledge of proportions and perspective is not very good, so even as a porn artist he's quite average.
User avatar
Obiwanshinobi
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

Urushihara, not unlike Toriyama, has his style (you look at those girls and you can tell who drew them) that many men like. Those girls are their type so to speak. Admittedly, he is one of few Japanese artists who can draw military dudes not looking like twats (more than I can tell about Gundam chara designers).
Sure, he's not good at proportions, but the faces steal the show. That one OAV I watched had some of the best animated boobs around too. Who cares whether or not real boobs look like that in motion?
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off

Image
User avatar
drauch
Posts: 5638
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by drauch »

Hagane, is there anything you like besides Super Turbo? I'm starting to wonder.
BIL wrote: "Small sack, LOTS OF CUM" - Nikola Tesla
User avatar
steveovig
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:13 am
Location: Youngstown, OH

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by steveovig »

Obiwanshinobi wrote:No idea about prices of the stuff I'd like to own, but I wouldn't get into collecting expensive carts without RGB-modding the machine and making sure your CRT displays RGB properly.
If you can't be bothered, the emulation is dreamy nowadays (you don't even need to play emulated games on PC if you have any problem with it).
Many Super Famicom games are fan-translated at this point. Some, like Chrono Trigger, are cases of missing the point, but some other, such as Rudra no Hihou, are playable at last.
Forgive me for being ignorant but how else besides using a PC would I deal with emulation? Do you mean reproductions as an option?
User avatar
Obiwanshinobi
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

From what I know, SNES can be emulated by every last-gen console, GBA (wouldn't recommend this one - too low resolution), PSP (decent resolution and number of buttons, ridiculed d-pad), DS (again - resolution too low for comfort) and Wii (easily modded and I like the d-pad).
Wii is better known for MD emulation. By the way, I know a girl who keeps her PSX to play emulated NES games on it.
"Reproduction" is not a word I use for sacrificing some innocent cart to make a bootleg. There are flash cartiridges, but rather expensive. I say by hook or by crook - emulate it (games on the so called VC are emulated). Can't honestly recommend collecting 16-bit consoles and cartridges to anybody without RGB mod. I don't have a sentimental attachment to that generation of hardware and video signal.
Granted, I collect GB and GBC games, so I can play them on my GBA SP. At the same time I refuse to get rid of my ancient famiclone (sub-par unit all around) even though if it was the last piece of gaming equipment around, I'd rather get some life for a change.
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off

Image
User avatar
dunpeal2064
Posts: 1781
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:14 pm
Location: CA

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by dunpeal2064 »

I quite like using the Wii for emulation. You get low res, but with nice output options without the need to mod.

Plus, like was mentioned earlier, the fan translations are awesome. There are some really neat games out there like Alcahest, Treasure of Rudra, Shiren the Wanderer, Seiken Densetsu 3, the Shin Megami titles, Dragon Quest V, Live a Live.... the list just goes on and on.
User avatar
Ganelon
Posts: 4413
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:43 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Ganelon »

For Urushihara, anybody interested in anime artstyles hopefully isn't looking for exact proportions. The only part that irks me about his characters is that the feet are often too long. I can see where some folks might say that everything looks too slick, but I associate that luster with clean and colorful art rarely found elsewhere. Multi-character composite art (e.g. most of the Langrisser poster pieces) is where I think Urushihara's creativity really excels. If you look through his list of works, you'll see that he has a decent repertoire of faces, and he can draw machinery/mecha well too; it's a shame Urushihara seems to be so interested in drawing adult art with the same 5 compromising positions using his same 5 favorite faces.
Hagane wrote:I don't see any issue. Supers in AoF are clearly differentiated from specials - they require 75% of spirit bar (much more than other special attacks; which can still be executed without spirit bar, at a much reduced power level), low life and are much more powerful than specials. That's the key, supers are a tier above specials in terms of power, and demand some extra requirement(s) to be executed.
You may want to play Ryuko again. As I said, the specials and supers have comparable spirit bar usage. The koohken and flying kick both need ~20%. The rapid punches/kicks use ~50%. Both haoh shokohken and ryuko ranbu use ~80%. The main difference is that the shokohken can be performed at any life whereas the ranbu (Ryo/Robert's official desperation move) has a life requirement (it also does slightly more damage).

That means the only differentiator between what you're considering a special and what you're considering a super is the life requirement. Are supers and desperations the same thing? Well, that's why I say it's a grey area, because supers are commonly associated with moves that only become accessible with full super bars whereas desperations are recognized as moves that become available with low life. Only for those who consider supers and desperations equivalent does Ryuko count as the first game with supers. This uncertainty is similar to why some folks here consider arcade Hiryu / Shanghai Kid to be a true fighting game whereas you and I may feel otherwise.

Hence, I'm throwing around all these qualifiers to make it clear that the presumably simple issue of "first fighting game with supers" isn't such a black-and-white issue. That title could be belong to Hiryu no Ken, Ryuko no Ken, Samurai Spirits, or TMNT Tournament Fighters (possibly another game if I'm missing something) depending on the viewer's definitions.
User avatar
steveovig
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:13 am
Location: Youngstown, OH

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by steveovig »

I don't know, it just seems kinda difficult to deal with emulation for me. I don't have a PSP or a GBA and I have no clue how to do a homebrew thing on the Wii-U, if it's possible. I still find it fun to actually buy the carts though, especially when I spot them in the wild! I'll have to look into modding the SNES I have maybe.
User avatar
AweOfShe
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 8:33 pm
Location: Yoshinogari, Saga, Japan

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by AweOfShe »

Hagane wrote: By the way, I don't know why Satoshi Rubberdoll McSameface Usushihara is held in such high regard, his stuff is as generic as it gets. I guess it's the fanservice.
The furburgers.
User avatar
Obiwanshinobi
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

There are very to-the-point online guides how to use emulators. Wii (not Wii U) is particulary clearly talked (with people who don't play games on computers in mind).
Don't expect anyone HERE to type down the instructions as it's all been covered thoroughly elsewhere. Just do some searching and reading (think school).
I found even Ootake (PC Engine emulator by a Japanese author) well explained by the author himself, Engrish and all.
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off

Image
User avatar
trap15
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:13 am
Location: 東京都杉並区
Contact:

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by trap15 »

steveovig wrote:I'll have to look into modding the SNES I have maybe.
Modding the SNES is as simple as tearing out the plastic tabs in the back of the console. Admittedly, this is hard to do, but you could drill it out or something less difficult than gripping with pliers and pulling/turning :lol: :lol:
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
User avatar
Obiwanshinobi
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:14 am

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

RGB mod, on the other hand, is not that easy and you still need an RGB monitor (trivial in PAL regions, no such luck in North America).
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off

Image
User avatar
Skykid
Posts: 17646
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Planet Dust Asia

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by Skykid »

ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:Skykid, have you ever considered writing for IGN.com?
Sounds like a slur, explain.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

User avatar
shmuppyLove
Posts: 3708
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

Post by shmuppyLove »

Got turned on to Dragon View yesterday at Brendz meet. Pretty sweet game, but damn even loose carts are a bit more than I'm willing to pay.

Gonna fire it up on my Wii later today instead 8)
Post Reply