Ace Combat

[Ji-L87]

Speaking of starting and landing, I suppose Ace Combat games have some fairly cinematic mission opening scenes, but there's something counter-intuitive about missions beginning mid-air. Just look at all those take-off or at least "swoosh" sequences in countless shmups. A beauty. Even Chelnov hatches that container thing right before becoming controllable (hatching is arguably the single most powerful motif to ever open up a game; see MGS1&3). Cars warm up their engines in anticipation before the signal to go. The "you wake up operating a fighter jet" premise strikes me as odd.

Well, in the games I've played so far (most of them?) there is always a handful of missions that starts off with you having to manually take off form the runway/carrier but these are quite simple (reach decent speed -> pull stick back -> reach altitude) and can be skipped by hitting the start button. Landings are a bit more engaging and required more work, because they're landings but they're pretty similar. No flipping switches, no checklists. I get what you mean and it would be nice, sometimes.

There are some dramatic take offs/landings featured in the cutscenes however, but I'm not sure they count? None of the games have that "Right, I'm about to go on an adventure" that Sky Odyssey does but they're ultimately very different games. Sky Odyssey's good though, one of the first games I bought when I got a used PS2.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Now I'm undecided as to whether to play Rogue Squadron II or Ace Combat 2 next in search of my "3D shmup" kicks. Chronological order, reason says, but since I intend to play Rogue Squadron III later on (to unlock those arcade games first and foremost), Ace Combat 2 might make for a decent intermission.

[Daigohji]

I'd have to say AC5. It improved on the controls of 4, had a wider variety of mission types, great music, and an enjoyable action movie-type plot. It also has one of the most memorable final missions in gaming history. However, all the PS2 entries in the series should be essential purchases for anyone who owns the system.

What I liked most about the PS2 games was that they reinvented the story presentation each time. AC4 was a sombre tale told in painted stills from the perspective of a boy who had fallen in with the pilots you're fighting against. AC5 was pure, high producton value action. AC0 had live-action cutscenes, a documentary structure, and a distinctive flamenco soundtrack.

AC6 was disappointing. The multiple objectives in each lengthy mission turned most of the game into repetitive drudgery, and the main character in the cutscenes was insufferable.

Now I'm undecided as to whether to play Rogue Squadron II or Ace Combat 2 next in search of my "3D shmup" kicks. Chronological order, reason says, but since I intend to play Rogue Squadron III later on (to unlock those arcade games first and foremost), Ace Combat 2 might make for a decent intermission.

I'd say Rogue Squadron II. I only rented AC2 once, over a decade ago, but I seem to remember finishing it in one sitting. RSII has much more content, and is probably the best all round entry in that series. Rogue Squadron III is awful, especially the ground levels.

[Remembrance]

I've said it before, but if you've played the 360 Ace Combats you may as well pick up Project Sylpheed.

The AC inspiration is blatant, even if it isn't quite up to the same standard. However, if you have ever wanted to lock on *64* missiles instead of two at once, and generally break out of various AC restrictions in ridiculous ways, this is your chance.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Rogue Squadron III is awful, especially the ground levels.

Rogue Squadron III contains missions from II playable in co-op, as well as ports of Star Wars arcade games. For that I can put up with a few poor missions.
Though I wonder why there's no Star Wars TPP like Bushido Blade (well, maybe modded Jedi Academy could be something along those lines). Lightsabers in the films and books don't work like side arms in SoulCalibur.

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

Is Ace Combat 6, Zero, or any of the PSP ones good? Those are the only ones I haven't played because I don't own an Xbox 360 or a PSP, and I never got around to buying AC Zero.

[Mortificator]

Rogue Squadron III is awful

Never tried it, since Rogue Squadron II was trash. I have never been so whined at by the characters in a game: help me, fly here, do this. Your wingmen constantly look to you for affirmation and need their orders repeated every 30 seconds.

The developers fancied-up the graphics from the original Rogue Squadron, then promptly negated their efforts by making the most efficient way of playing the game be with an orange filter covering the screen. There are more missions straight from the films, and the sequences that were cool to watch are reduced to paint-by-numbers drudgery. You've all seen Return of the Jedi, but I bet you didn't know that the final battle against the Empire hinged on the medical frigate. If it gets destroyed, the war is lost. Protect it and get your next objective: protect Ackbar's cruiser or the war is lost. Complete that objective, then protect the Millennium Falcom, or the war is lost.

Dogfighting is a total crapshoot. You can't bomb AT-ATs anymore, as they've become invincible to everything in the universe except the tow cable of a snowspeeder. And isn't it a little insane to hire soundalikes for every character from the films (except Wedge) instead of just using the audio from the films?

I can only conclude that the warm reception this game got on release was from people desperate to do something with their new GameCubes besides vacuum ghosts.

Anyway, have you played Aero Fighters Assault, Obi? It's relatively shumply, considering its parent series consisted of vertical shooters.

[Gespenst]

Is Ace Combat 6, Zero, or any of the PSP ones good? Those are the only ones I haven't played because I don't own an Xbox 360 or a PSP, and I never got around to buying AC Zero.

Zero is easily one of the best in the series (the story, the level design, the soundtracks, pretty much everything done right, although there's just 18 missions in one run, but each of them have 3 variations depends on your play style). The first PSP game (Skies of Deception) is as good as let's say, 5, but with multiple paths and customization (limited to fictional planes only), haven't tried Joint Assault and 6 though.

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

Is Ace Combat 6, Zero, or any of the PSP ones good? Those are the only ones I haven't played because I don't own an Xbox 360 or a PSP, and I never got around to buying AC Zero.

Zero is easily one of the best in the series (the story, the level design, the soundtracks, pretty much everything done right, although there's just 18 missions in one run, but each of them have 3 variations depends on your play style). The first PSP game (Skies of Deception) is as good as let's say, 5, but with multiple paths and customization (limited to fictional planes only), haven't tried Joint Assault and 6 though.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind; I have been wanting to buy AC Zero for a long time, ever since I beat 5. My favorites so far are a tie between 5 and Assault Horizon. Ace Combat 5 is the game I have spent a ridiculous amount of time on, in fact it is the only video game I have beat completely; I unlocked all the planes, all the colors, all the medals, and I have cleared every mission on every difficulty from normal to ace with the highest rank.

[evil_ash_xero]

It won't let me vote.

Anyway, 5 is probably the best by a SLIGHT margin. That being said, it's rambling co-pilots make the game a bit of a chore. Their stories and personalities are awful. So, I probably like 6 the best. It's got less yakking, and the game is just about as good as 5. It doesn't hurt that the graphics are awesome, and it has a few tweaks to the gameplay. The story is bad and melodramatic, but it's primarily only in the cutscenes, rather than in game conversation.

I can't really overstate the horrible personalities of 5.

[KAI]

Welcome to the strangereal world

Epic.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The developers fancied-up the graphics from the original Rogue Squadron, then promptly negated their efforts by making the most efficient way of playing the game be with an orange filter covering the screen.

If we're thinking about the same filter, I have to say I suck for such fullscreen effects (then again, I suck for daylight). A bit of haze is supposed to give an impression of looking at things from afar and it works for me (see stages: 2 and 3 in Raiden III; things don't look exactly better in later, outer space stages where the fog is gone).
Radiant Silvergun also has that foggyness going for it. I recently saw the Saturn version on a CRT with RGB colour and cor blimey, did it look good.

Dogfighting is a total crapshoot.

Did you turn auto level and auto roll OFF? Just a question to be asked whenever this game is discussed.

You can't bomb AT-ATs anymore, as they've become invincible to everything in the universe except the tow cable of a snowspeeder.

Makes sense, considering these are walking fortresses. I believe some heavily armoured German self-propelled guns got disabled by Red Army infantrymen carrying grenades and mines. Guerilla warfare wouldn't be as effective as it reportedly is if some simple solutions didn't work better than fancy stuff. Didn't some U.S. Army gear from nineteen-seventies left in Ahghanistan prove itself surprisingly devastating against what they brought along over there lately?

I can only conclude that the warm reception this game got on release was from people desperate to do something with their new GameCubes besides vacuum ghosts.

Although I can't think of any other remarkable 'Cube game that wasn't Super Monkey Ball in 2001, I believe the reception was warm because the game was so film-like. Without Star Wars, there would be no space shooters as we know them. I for one never heard about dogfighting in space and shooting the core before Star Wars, and I'm certainly not the only one. On these forums it can't be overstated how seminal that film was, and Rogue Squadron II happens to be the most audio-visually accomplished "Star Wars: The Video Game" to date.

Anyway, have you played Aero Fighters Assault, Obi? It's relatively shumply, considering its parent series consisted of vertical shooters.

I was reluctant to give it a try because Sonic Wings Special is one of my favourite shmups and with N64, I find the framerate of most games wince-worthy these days (the reason why I'm also unwilling to play Pilotwings 64, even though it just might by me kind of "arcade flight sim").

[Ruldra]

I was thinking of renting Assault Horizon to beat the campaign and not bother with online modes, but decided to check out how it's like...and it's awesome.

The video however is a year old. Do people still play this?

[Pharos]

I was thinking of renting Assault Horizon to beat the campaign and not bother with online modes, but decided to check out how it's like...and it's awesome.

The video however is a year old. Do people still play this?

'Capital Conquest' was the only mode that was active when I played it a few months back, but thankfully it's the best in the game. There would usually be at least one free-for-all lobby as well.

PS3 probably would have more people online though. Be warned though, there's a bit of a learning curve and most people playing are very good and/or cheap as fuck. People abusing an annoying glitch, where planes could float where they spawned, was become endemic when I stopped playing as well.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The developers fancied-up the graphics from the original Rogue Squadron, then promptly negated their efforts by making the most efficient way of playing the game be with an orange filter covering the screen.

Sheesh, I see what you meant now and... frankly, I can't believe you really meant that. No Medal Awarded. You Have 0 Points.
I can only assume you played it all wrong. You need: a) component or RGB, b) big telly (CRT), c) good soundsystem (decent headphones recommended), d) DARKNESS (like, you know, in a movie theater). As a matter of fact I struggle to believe anybody on here had any beef with this game. It's the Homeworld of space shooters.
We're Nearly Out of This Mess I hope.

P.S. I'm just working on the Hoth mission and guess what? Taking down the imperial walkers with the tow cable takes skill. Yes, it is a kind of Monkey Ball challenge in that you have to deal with the unwieldy camera, but (just like Super Monkey Ball) fair chalenge nonetheless and quite a spectacle at that.

P.P.S. By the way, to say "the most efficient way..." is factually incorrect. You can't do sharp turns in cockpit view, thus it's better off reserved for precise aiming (a bit like MGS3 in this respect). It's a game of three viewpoints for a good reason. I doubt the one you meant would be "most efficient" all the way through whilst playing for the score. I find the missions tricky enough to complete and they don't give away the "achievements" they have to give easily.
If visibility really is that much of an issue (no wonder pilots are required to have good eyesight; not that mine is particulary good), maybe the room is just too bright, TV too small and signal cable just composite (S-Video?); also, by "good soundsystem (decent headphones recommended)" I meant precisely that. Even stereophonic "3D sound" here is nearly as helpful as it is in Twisted Metal: Black and certain fast-paced first person shooters (don't seek those on consoles).

[Gespenst]

Speaking of, it's a shame that Stormbirds has been cancelled even before the devs (Juice games, they went defunct soon after that announcement trailer) could do much things with it.

[cj iwakura]

I never played 1-3, but I love 5 and Zero, especially Zero's live action FMVs.


I've also heard the 3DS version of Assault Horizon is traditional AC, and is great.

[Gespenst]

I never played 1-3, but I love 5 and Zero, especially Zero's live action FMVs.


I've also heard the 3DS version of Assault Horizon is traditional AC, and is great.

Assault Horizon Legac, err, Cross Rumble is basically a sort of retelling of PSX's Ace Combat 2 with much more contents, so yeah.

[EmperorIng]

So is the 3DS version not like the Assault Horizon as we know it?

I didn't even know there was a 3DS Ace Combat, but considering how I've wanted to get into the series, color me interested.
I still want to buy that $2.00 Air Combat for the Ps1 for laughs (and maybe to be pleasantly surprised).

[Ji-L87]

Got my setup 98% working, so I've been able to spend some quality time with AC 2 now. It's actually pretty good, very fast paced and features more variety in the missions that I expected (also, canyon runs - the night one was pretty sweet actually). I can't really figure out what exactly makes an aircraft good against ground targets in this game (do you get a lock earlier or what?).

In short, it's a bit rough around the edges perhaps, but I can dig it.

[Gespenst]

Got my setup 98% working, so I've been able to spend some quality time with AC 2 now. It's actually pretty good, very fast paced and features more variety in the missions that I expected (also, canyon runs - the night one was pretty sweet actually). I can't really figure out what exactly makes an aircraft good against ground targets in this game (do you get a lock earlier or what?).

In short, it's a bit rough around the edges perhaps, but I can dig it.

In typical AC game, higher AG stats usually means your plane locks ground target faster and same goes for higher AA stats.

[Ji-L87]

In typical AC game, higher AG stats usually means your plane locks ground target faster and same goes for higher AA stats.

Ah, makes sense. Thanks for explaining. I'm used to the newer AC games, where you actually have proper, dedicated air-to-ground/air-to-air weaponry

[cj iwakura]

So is the 3DS version not like the Assault Horizon as we know it?

I didn't even know there was a 3DS Ace Combat, but considering how I've wanted to get into the series, color me interested.
I still want to buy that $2.00 Air Combat for the Ps1 for laughs (and maybe to be pleasantly surprised).

No, the 3DS AC is a traditional flight sim, not whatever crazy mashup PS3/360 Assault Horizon is.

[Gespenst]

FYI: SystemSoft also made some Ace Combat-ish (don't know whether it's more realistic-ish or not, but looks like it) for PC called Super Air Combat series. Check this out.

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

Who else thinks that the Raiden MK-II fighter jet from the Raiden series would be awesome to have in an Ace Combat game?

[Ji-L87]

Who else thinks that the Raiden MK-II fighter jet from the Raiden series would be awesome to have in an Ace Combat game?

I'd rather have the ship from Soldier Blade, that thing's a beauty!

Which reminds me, Airforce Delta did have some shmup cameos. I need to sit down and play that game, seems awesome.

[Gespenst]

Which reminds me, Airforce Delta did have some shmup cameos. I need to sit down and play that game, seems awesome.

It's good; very good, aside the hilariously bad English voice acting (the original Japanese VA seems much better). In other side, it has tons of ridiculous things for an arcade flight sim (orbital elevator? check. space missions? check. aliens from Mars? check. dogfighting jets with WW2 plane? check. flying down an oversized gun barrel? check. flying a VTOL/prop plane INSIDE A SUBWAY TUNNEL? check, too). TBH it's the most ridiculous arcade flight sim ever exists, comes with ridiculous amount of unlockable/playable planes (About 100 jets in total plus the usual Konami cameos, heck most even can't be seen outside this game) too.

[Zeether]

So is the 3DS version not like the Assault Horizon as we know it?

I didn't even know there was a 3DS Ace Combat, but considering how I've wanted to get into the series, color me interested.
I still want to buy that $2.00 Air Combat for the Ps1 for laughs (and maybe to be pleasantly surprised).

No, the 3DS AC is a traditional flight sim, not whatever crazy mashup PS3/360 Assault Horizon is.

It's some remake of 2, isn't it?

[cj iwakura]

So is the 3DS version not like the Assault Horizon as we know it?

I didn't even know there was a 3DS Ace Combat, but considering how I've wanted to get into the series, color me interested.
I still want to buy that $2.00 Air Combat for the Ps1 for laughs (and maybe to be pleasantly surprised).

No, the 3DS AC is a traditional flight sim, not whatever crazy mashup PS3/360 Assault Horizon is.

It's some remake of 2, isn't it?

I think so? I never played 2.

[Gespenst]

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/11/09/is ... ed-to-pcs/

Of all things...heck it's even listed as FPS! Wait, it is actually.