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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:00 pm 


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drauch wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:
Are you guys frothing at the mouth yet?


I'm certainly frothing somewhere.

That's all the Olestra. Stop eating, fatty!
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:19 pm 



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Zen wrote:

This is triggering the shit out of me :lol:
Also; good luck with those lunges and any reconsideration of the squat, Randorama.
My condolences to your knees, in advance.


Duh, tried today out of curiosity (squat: because indoors cyclists think it is better than sex, or something) and the knee is OK.

What the trigger was about, though?
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:23 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
If you decide to move forward with this I can point you towards some excellent progressions if you wish. Taller individuals can have some extra difficulty due to the length of their femur, but it is still attainable. A counter weight can be helpful too.


I looked for a pic of the ones I'm doing but couldn't find it. Imagine one leg out about...2-3 feet. Other leg elevated on a bench of some sort. Dumbell being held in front of chest by both arms, a la namaste but less pretentious.

And being tall does put a damper on a lot of these things. It's better everywhere else though.

Zen wrote:
Not that I enjoy watching footage of injuries but could you get that on camera if you decide to go through with it? For educational purposes, you understand.

And make sure you mic that bitch up, GP. I want to hear the tear!


To be fair, I'm usually fine w/ form. Usually. I've lifted weights since I was 14, as I am from Texas... so of course, played football. However, like a dumb ass, I forget sometimes. The worst offense was at 28, and was in fact about 1 month before I was leaving Japan for the first time. I put a 65 lb dumb bell back on it's rack (quite low). Felt it as it jerked me to the ground. All I thought was, "that's gonna hurt tomorrow". And, I was right. For a few weeks I would take intermittent naps on the floor in the server room. Shiatsu/Acupuncture 3 times a week. Etc. etc. Was not fun.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:35 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
What the trigger was about, though?

It was an attempt at diplomacy.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:57 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Imagine one leg out about...2-3 feet. Other leg elevated on a bench of some sort. Dumbell being held in front of chest by both arms, a la namaste but less pretentious.


Sounds like Bulgarian squats.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bulgari ... ve&ssui=on
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:49 pm 


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Isn't that cultural appropriation? :|

But yes, that's them.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:42 pm 


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On days like today discipline > motivation.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:40 pm 



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Is anyone still training? I certainly do, and I am all for necrobumps.

Kane, if you still read this forum, and Stevens (and GP, I know you will read this):

After moving one more time (Guangzhou --> Wuhan), I gave up on joining masters level sports groups because my uni does not have practical stuff (say, the rowing team commutes every day at 5.30 am to train 2 hours on the river, 30' of bus per side of the trip...no thanks).

Wuhan weather is also a bit shite (rather unstable and rainy), so outdoor training is a perennial lottery.
I am back to the gym, so I am doing weights (of course), but also quite a bit of body weight exercises.

I feel that I am simply too light these days, so I am trying out various solutions to be heavier: training vest, ankle weights, or even just dumbells between legs.
I am wondering if you guys have any recommendations, reading suggestions, etc. on how to get heavier and maintain mobility (I need to get used to the vest, really), what kinds of benefits & goals I could aim for, and so on.
I admit that dips and pull-ups are favourite movements, and that I can also do basic isometric exercises (well, L- and V-sits, hand-stands...is "isometric" the right label?).

I am also running on the treadmill, and I feel that speed & distance are not an issue (but I am working on getting faster for longer distances).
However, the...surface gives me trouble. I feel like treadmills are the hardest surface I've ever run on, and I need to be careful with my achilles tendons, in particular.
Any tips and reading materials on this, too? Any general suggestions on HIIT training sessions, by chance?
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:36 pm 


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I'm a bit confused. Are you wanting more options for more exercises that mainly incorporate body weight, or are you wanting more mass but maintaining your mobility? Or is it both?
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:58 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
Is anyone still training? I certainly do, and I am all for necrobumps.

Kane, if you still read this forum, and Stevens (and GP, I know you will read this):


This sort of thing is how I make my living my good man. Training is as vital to me as breathing: )

I would give up video games before Progressive Calisthenics.

Randorama wrote:
I feel that I am simply too light these days, so I am trying out various solutions to be heavier: training vest, ankle weights, or even just dumbells between legs.
I am wondering if you guys have any recommendations, reading suggestions, etc. on how to get heavier and maintain mobility (I need to get used to the vest, really), what kinds of benefits & goals I could aim for, and so on.


I'm not sure if I posted this earlier in the thread, but when I started dabbling in calisthenics about 10 years ago I weighed about 160/165. I didn't put a lot of weight on right away. I got a little stronger, but it wasn't until I really took it seriously (March 2016) and understood the what I was doing and why I was doing it did I really start to see dividends. Five years on I am stronger than I have ever been and I can do things that had I seen people do the same before I started would have blown me away.

In March 2016 I weighed 160ish, now I weigh 185. Just body weight training, proper sleep, and mostly proper nutrition.

Randorama wrote:
I admit that dips and pull-ups are favourite movements, and that I can also do basic isometric exercises (well, L- and V-sits, hand-stands...is "isometric" the right label?).


You are correct sir, isometric is the label.

Randorama wrote:
I am also running on the treadmill, and I feel that speed & distance are not an issue (but I am working on getting faster for longer distances).
However, the...surface gives me trouble. I feel like treadmills are the hardest surface I've ever run on, and I need to be careful with my achilles tendons, in particular.


God I fucking hate running. I do like spin bikes for cardio, have you tried one? Much easier on you from an orthopedic standpoint.

Randorama wrote:
Any tips and reading materials on this, too? Any general suggestions on HIIT training sessions, by chance?


Like I said I would look into spin bikes for your cardio HIIT training. It is much easier on the body and way more fun imo than running.

As far as books go, here is a short list of books I have read from various authors on the subject and a brief thought on each:

Convict Conditioning: Paul Wade

Where do I even begin? This is the book I started my journey with back in 2016. My only regret was not buying it sooner. Six exercises that cover almost every muscle in the body: Pull ups, push ups, squats, leg raises, handstand push ups, and bridges. Each exercise field stripped into steps from total beginner to expert.

Is the book perfect? No. It neglects the lower back and one or two steps for some exercises I found unnecessary and I would add Aussie pull ups (they're an early step in the pull up progression) to cover horizontal pull. Over the years I have found lots of half steps in between some of the levels, but that was based on my own needs. If there is one thing I have learned it is that PC is an individual journey. We can get advice and pointers, but ultimately we must walk it on our own.

CC is the real deal. No bullshit. This book should be on everyone's shelf.

Strength Rules: Danny Kavadlo

Danny and his brother Al are two of the best known PC practitioners here in the states. Strength Rules is more of a philosophical look on training. I enjoy Danny's musings here and think this one is worth owning even if it isn't my go to guide for actual training info. That said there is training info within.

Naked Warrior: Pavel Tsatsouline

I've read this one once or twice and will pick it up time to time and just read random passages from it. Pavel is a genius in what I like to call economy of movement or getting the most power out of moving the least amount. At the very least the "power of a fist" should be read by everyone who trains in PC.

Complete Calisthenics: Ashley Kalym

This guy put out a great book seven years ago and then pretty much disappeared. Lots of good progressions in here along with tips on nutrition, rest, and sleep. I also read this one from time to time.

Convict Conditioning 2: Paul Wade

The following up has lots of extra work you may want to add to your routine. I don't train in all of it all the time, but from time to time I may add some grip work via hanging. Finger push ups and press flag training have found their way into my weekly rotation though.

Those are probably the books that have given me the most. I also really like Jeff Cavilere and Hybrid Calisthenics' YouTube channel. I am not big on getting all of my information from one place, but rather read as much as I can and pick and choose what I want to add to the things I do. Here is what my weekly schedule looks like currently:

Tuesday: Close Grip Pull Ups and 1/2 Handstand Push Ups

Wednesday: Pistol Squats and Horizontal Pull Ups

Thursday: Archer Push Ups and Hanging Bent Leg Raises

Friday: Dips, Bridges, Finger Push Ups, and Press Flag Work

Saturday through Monday rest

That schedule has evolved over the years as I have added and subtracted things. Some of the exercises I have progressed very far in like Push Ups and Squats. Others I've been hampered by things and am not as far along like Handstand Push Ups and Press Flag.

I am at the point now where for most things I add a rep every two to three weeks. I am a one to two set guy. Mike Mentzer (Heavy Duty II) was a little out there, but really believed in the effectiveness of one or two sets max. This doctrine has served me very well.

If there is anything else I can help with, any questions you may still have, or anything I explained poorly let me know. Stay strong!
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:28 pm 


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I've been ruminating a lot more on the muscle / sinew divide. 10 years ago I thought that progressing past the novice phase was ~25% muscular, 75% connective tissue... these days I think the ratio is more like 5% / 95%.

Muscle tissue is much more vascular and quick to recover - ~26 hours is enough for recovery given a light daily volume of work, and 72 hours is enough for atrophy to start. Easy come, easy go.

Connective tissue, though... the timescales are much different. So slow.

I appreciate more now those random horror stories of dumbass juicers who go to the gym, do metric fucktons of volume because they're swole and like to see how strong they are, and one of their goddamn tendons detach from their bones. It doesn't matter how strong you are - hundreds of pounds of pressure on your skeleton weighs the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:27 am 



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Drauch: more options for exercises would be nice, but rather than mass I am wondering if you guys have really basic suggestions on how to use vests, how to add weight, etc.

I am currently using a vest which can be made heavier with this kind of bars. The vest is 22 pounds (10 kgs), bars are 1 kg each (2.2. pounds).
I am finding this set-up cumbersome, in the sense that I am clumsy enough to move incorrectly when I do pull-ups.
This is courtesy of the gym, so I was thinking of buying an heavier vest.
Should I then add ankle weights? Or just focus on the vest? I am wondering if there are combos that I should avoid, or I get injured.

Re: mass, I am addressing this point to Stevens' answer.

Stevens:

Yes, I never stopped during the pandemic because it was not necessary, and by this age (41 soon), training is always a mental blessing and seldom a physical challenge.
I think that Henry Rollins in "The Iron" (or whatever the essay is called) summarised it perfectly. 2 hours of early work, training, another 8 hours of work fly and are very productive.
I am at the point that the necessary holidays make me uneasy, and I end up doing something anyway (last Spring festival, I helped the waifu getting into rucking and she's loving it).

Said this:

My weight right now is around 73 kgs (160 pounds), with oscillations of 2 kgs (down after training, up if I eat too much over the weekend: let's say 5 pounds up and down).
Still 1,74 mts something (5'9"?), and body fat calculators give me at around 11.7%.
All values are perfectly fine, and if anything switching to moderate amounts of soy sauce and miso from salt brought me in the range of very light low pressure.
Nutrition and sleep-wise...OK, maybe we can back to this in another post, or this one gets TL;DR :wink:
Numbers generally speaking look good.

Re. size.
To be honest, when I played rugby (but also when I was rowing...different life phases), I was heavier and bigger and at times I didn't like it, also because I would lose mobility/elasticity.
Rowing was actually the worst offender, because that type of movement tends to really kill any general mobility in a body (at times, I felt like some kind of stone golem).
If there are good health reasons to work on size and keeping a decent mobility, I am all ears.
It's just that I am used to the idea of "size=thing for bodybuilders and props in NFL/rugby", and never read arguments in favour of it.

Running: Yes, but I have a *psychological* hurdle right now. During the pandemic I couldn't train for indoors cycling, the sport I was practicing in Guangzhou.
I started running again and the fact that I could run along the Pearl river helped me to enjoy the activity.
I need to get used to cycling but without being able to actually move (i.e. spin biking), which somehow makes me easily bored/defocused.
Another issue is that running strikes me as a better form of training for the lungs, as even when I was cycling on the track, I seldom felt challenged regarding lungh capacity.
...I also need to take properly bike measurements to be sure that, orthopedics-wise, I am sitting correctly.

Readings: excellent, I am going to study these ASAP.
Any reading suggestions are welcome, since I am heavily biased towards text-based information for professional reasons :wink:

Re: schedule...OK, I am trying to avoid the TL; DR effect. I will put together my thoughts on it, though.

BryanM: it sounds like your thoughts on ratio are influenced by some "ball and racket" sport...can you elaborate a bit?
be re: juicers...some of those stories are real, in my experience. It could honestly be a sub-genre of body horror story, and I guess sooner or later we will get some Isekai iteration on people who are transported to worlds in which the protagonist helps the hapless locals in avoiding getting beefy and broken :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:22 am 


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Randorama wrote:
Drauch: more options for exercises would be nice, but rather than mass I am wondering if you guys have really basic suggestions on how to use vests, how to add weight, etc.


I have an 80 lb. vest I wear all the time, even on the shitter. YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?

For real though - I bought an 80 lb. vest with the intention of using it for dips and at different times during my training. I guess I should elaborate a bit first.

As I have progressed over the last five years I came to realize (BryanM made a great point I completely forgot about in regards to connective tissue vs. muscle and he is 100% right on that) that I actually needed more rest in between my workouts. As you move to more advanced variations of calisthenics tendon strength becomes more and more important, and as Bryan pointed out they take far longer to acclimate to the demands being placed on them. In a way the small muscles of the rotator cuff are similar.

For instance right now I have been making a lot of progress with archer push ups (these are pretty taxing). I've even dabbled and successfully done three sliding one arm push ups on each side, but not enough that I feel I am ready to move on from the archers. I'm also making very slow gains with the 1/2 handstand push ups (always been my nemesis), the hanging leg raises, and the press flag work. Since all of these are really demanding on similar areas of my body I have NOT been using any weights on my dips.

I suppose the TL;DR here is somethings gotta give, so for me right now I am very OK just doing dips minus the weight. Knowing when to pull back is something I have refined over the years and was definitely the result of originally not knowing when to pull back. I've become very in tune with the things my body tells me and that I should listen to it.

Speaking of two or three times a year I will take an entire week off. 20 minutes of stretching and that's it.

As far as my 80 lbs. of weight - half is at home and the other half is at work (which is a gym:).

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fuel-Purefor ... lsrc=aw.ds

Randorama wrote:
My weight right now is around 73 kgs (160 pounds), with oscillations of 2 kgs (down after training, up if I eat too much over the weekend: let's say 5 pounds up and down).
Still 1,74 mts something (5'9"?), and body fat calculators give me at around 11.7%.
All values are perfectly fine, and if anything switching to moderate amounts of soy sauce and miso from salt brought me in the range of very light low pressure.
Nutrition and sleep-wise...OK, maybe we can back to this in another post, or this one gets TL;DR :wink:
Numbers generally speaking look good.


You're kind of where I was when I started. Another post is fine!

Randorama wrote:
Re. size.
To be honest, when I played rugby (but also when I was rowing...different life phases), I was heavier and bigger and at times I didn't like it, also because I would lose mobility/elasticity.
Rowing was actually the worst offender, because that type of movement tends to really kill any general mobility in a body (at times, I felt like some kind of stone golem).
If there are good health reasons to work on size and keeping a decent mobility, I am all ears.
It's just that I am used to the idea of "size=thing for bodybuilders and props in NFL/rugby", and never read arguments in favour of it.


I suppose the thing I love about what I do is while I add some weight and strength here and there (most notably when I move on to a harder exercise) you won't get that kind of big. So train away with no worries.

Randorama wrote:
Running: Yes, but I have a *psychological* hurdle right now. During the pandemic I couldn't train for indoors cycling, the sport I was practicing in Guangzhou.
I started running again and the fact that I could run along the Pearl river helped me to enjoy the activity.
I need to get used to cycling but without being able to actually move (i.e. spin biking), which somehow makes me easily bored/defocused.
Another issue is that running strikes me as a better form of training for the lungs, as even when I was cycling on the track, I seldom felt challenged regarding lungh capacity.
...I also need to take properly bike measurements to be sure that, orthopedics-wise, I am sitting correctly.


I tell the population I work with - You have to do what you like, or you won't stick with it. You clearly like to run so I understand where you're coming from.

Randorama wrote:
Readings: excellent, I am going to study these ASAP.
Any reading suggestions are welcome, since I am heavily biased towards text-based information for professional reasons :wink:

Re: schedule...OK, I am trying to avoid the TL; DR effect. I will put together my thoughts on it, though.


Reading suggestions that I haven't posted? I just looked up The Simple Six by Clinton Dobbins. It might be worth a look imo, as it appears to be a more refined Convict Conditioning. There may be a few others I are familiar with but haven't mentioned cause memory: )

Ultimately I would say that whatever program you land with - STICK WITH IT. Don't bounce around to this and that. I've added and subtracted things as I've seen fit (like I do more grip work in the summer) but the core of my program since March 2016 remains unchanged.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:42 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
BryanM: it sounds like your thoughts on ratio are influenced by some "ball and racket" sport...can you elaborate a bit?


Nah. I've played tennis in high school and enjoyed the few times I got to play racketball with someone, but I'm talking from the perspective of bread and butter strength training.

My current experiment is a daily workset of benchpress and a squat. Always been curious about the Bulgarian method and the lift every day crew. Much like the cliche of going off to become a lumberjack - to steal and paraphrase a catchphrase from Dinosaur Training: "You either get stronger or die. The trees don't care which."

In practice this has resulted more in increasing work capacity instead of the numbers on the bar. How many days that ideal is sustainable until a rest day is absolutely necessary. Example: four days, rest day, five days, rest day, six days, rest day, one day, rest day, seven days, etc. Obviously worthless to anyone without a power rack at home.

I'm around my former plateau now, so I should be able to figure out if this has any merit if I'm able to significantly breakthrough in the coming months.

..... another thing that I've come to appreciate is how much a lying weasel my body is. One day it'll be like "2/5 bro you're gonna diiiiie if you keep doing this man take a break" and the next day will be 3/5 or 4/5, no big deal. And another day it'll be like "3/5 bro you can doooo it!!!!!" and the next day I fall a rep short of the targeted quota. I naively thought "how I feel" would be a useful metric for when to take a rest day but it's worth absolutely jack shit as data unless I'm at 1/5. The bastard really wants me to be small and weak.. sigh.


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:18 pm 



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BryanM: OK, generally speaking I tend to stick to a program with week-end rests, so I know that my tissues can handle the given recovery time.
I also remember the general comment from tennis friends that taking the right time to let ligaments recover is very, very important when you play sports that involve potential over-extensions at every turn.
So far my body seems to be rather honest when it matters: this morning I slept an extra half an hour because the body clearly said "no, fuck off, I need more time!".
Who am I to disagree? I didn't need a power nap in the afternoon, anyway.

Stevens:

No problems on long messages. I read a lot with glee :wink:

Vest, I should buy one as the ones at the gym are small-ish for me, and they do not go beyond 15 kgs (37 pounds?). I simply didn't bother to check the actual size, and so I was using one that was giving me trouble in movements.

I admit that I play with grips when doing pull-ups (very narrow, very wide, anything in between, front and back, rotated 90 degrees), but for other movements I must read the relevant literature first ( :wink: ), before trying less taxing movements.

On some movements I can handle quite a bit of loads: I can clear at least one dip with +52 kgs (105 lbs?), and one pull up with grip perpendicular to the chest with +59 kgs.
On push-ups, I tried the vest and I can do quite a few reps (60-70, i.e. reach endurance training levels?) over a few series, but more kgs put me in trouble and I do not dare trying.

And just in general, I usually plan an academic year also as a training cycle, so I do 23 weeks with a program+3 weeks at rest or slow training (stretching, walking, other stuff: recover), and try to complete two semesters with the same progressive program.

Not worried about adding muscular weight, but I am seeing that my current regime allows me to avoid the type of bulkiness that makes me feel uneasy, so it's all good.
I am trying to slow adapt myself to spinning/static cycling, but I plan on mixing both as heart/lung (HIIT, if you like) training makes me feel more confident about my lung capacity on other efforts.
Cycling is generally less taxing unless you really, really push hard (like: climbing a mountain outdoors, like road cyclists do).

Reading suggestions: no problem, I still need to get the other books anyway :wink:

At the moment, I wish that swimming would not be a very time-consuming activity.
Some pools are open, but the gym is literally the next building North of mine, and 5-7 minutes of walk from work.
I live on campus, which is a small city-like structure and everything is within walking distance, but the campus pool is still not ready for the post CoViD-19 rules.
Everything else is a bliss, and aside days I need more rest (and take it pronto), I am doing quite fine and enjoy sessions even when I am literally drenched with sweat.

I am procrastinating more comments for another post :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:05 pm 


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Almost missed this thread. Real life fisted me for a bit last month but I'm all good now. Better, anyway.

So through the pandemic, most of my exercise was jogging a couple of times a week, and every other day through Sydney Cummings Youtube channel. Snark all you want - the Greek think tank here in Man Jose has continually told me "it's for girls" (even though one guy did it daily w/ his wife) but the workouts are good if you can't make it to a gym, which of course, I could not.

I got in pretty good shape last summer. The gyms opened w/ restrictions soon after. Then, Thanksgiving and Xmas fucked me and the gyms closed for a few months. I'm now back in it and I'm about to finish my first weights circuit. It's kind of boring and what I've always done so definitely welcome to mix things up.

Diet
I eat pretty well. By American standards I probably eat in the top 5%. Top 15% by Cali standards. :)
A bit of a creature of habit.
Breakfast: Protein Shake w/ Banana & almonds and/or Eggs | Salmon w/ capers | Yogurt w/ peanut butter once in a blue moon
Lunch: Eggs sometimes. Salad quite often (no protein in it though). Tuna salad on occasion.
Snack: Yogurt | Banana w/ Peanut Butter | Almonds
Dinner: Sometimes the aforementioned salad. Sometimes pasta (w/ kick ass olive oil and parmesan only]). Sometimes rice or lentils and some type of Indian thing (packet things from Whole Foods or Trader Joes).

Simple shit. I have cut out about 90% of cheese and bread as of 2 months ago to figure out where I stand. I'm not light headed from exercise, so I assume cutting the bread was good (eg, I have enough energy). The cheese... Fuck, it's awesome but I'm trying to lose the love handles.

Exercise
Monday:
Jog
Lift: Back (a couple of kinds of pull ups. Back extension, Lat pulldown, etc.)
Tuesday:
Stationary bike for 30 minutes
Lift: Biceps / Core
Wednesday:
Swim: 2700 yards (in about an hour)
Lift: Shoulders
Thursday:
Jog
Lift: Chest
Friday:
Stationary bike 30 minutes
Lift: Triceps, Legs (Smith machine squats, glute bridges, lunges, etc.)

*Jogs: got up to 6.5 miles last time at avg 6.3 mph. On a treadmill. My knees suck, although I got over that for the pandemic.
For weights I generally do 2 weeks of 3 sets of 8, then 3 sets of 6, then 3 sets of 4: raising the weight ~10% the first jump, ~20% the second. Then no weights for 2 weeks. Swap out about half of the exercises w/ something else. Raise the weight a bit and go back to 3 x 8.

I try to do some other stuff. On days I feel like I have some energy I'll do a 15 minute YT video (abs or glutes usually). Sometimes get a bike ride in. Shit like that. I walk at least a mile on top of everything every day. Usually 2.

Definitely happy to take some protips on reps, exercises, and all that shit. I hate jogging, too, but I know it's what gives me the most bang for buck cardio wise. For the record, when I left Japan in 2014 I had a a strict 3 day workout: Monday & Thursday jog (12k), Tuesady and Thursday lift (similar to all lifting above, but no cardio at all), Wednesday / Saturday swim (3k in about 75 minutes). I also rode my bike everywhere. I had a calorie counter a few different times and it was a bit over 3000 on my jogging days and a bit other the other 4. Can't remember Sunday.

So at 46 I guess I'm not doing too bad. 6'3" and I've always teetered between 185 & 200. I'm about 193 ATM. 185 is definitely on the skinny side.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:51 pm 


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I missed we had a training thread too. Mine's been out of whack since I injured my left wrist, more than a month and it's still not 100%. One of the changes to avoid putting weight on it is replacing squats with reverse nordics, which I kind of hate ATM, but what are you gonna do?
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:36 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Simple shit.

Yogurt does that! :)

Anyone tried the "protein before sleep" hack for muscle? There have been a raft of studies on casein shakes before beds from Maastricht U, including this one:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415027/

It also brings us this masterpiece of understatement:
Quote:
In the study by Groen et al. (10) we demonstrated for the first time that administration of 40 g (intrinsically labeled) protein during sleep (via a nasogastric tube) is normally digested and absorbed in older adults, resulting in an increase in overnight muscle protein synthesis rates. This indicates that the gut functions appropriately at night and suggests that nocturnal protein administration may be applied as a nutritional strategy to increase muscle protein synthesis rates during overnight sleep. Although intragastric protein feeding during sleep may represent a feasible intervention strategy in certain clinical populations, it is far from being practical in a day-to-day situation in healthy individuals.

(In other news I finally watched the original Robocop, and I'm now feeling they missed a joke here.)


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:21 am 


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I actually just read today that the best strategy for protein is to spread it out through the day... unlike fats & carbs which you need to time.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:17 pm 



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First, the necessary banter...

GP, after reading about your recent disadventures, FF shenanigans and "Man Jose", I thought that you were avoiding this thread for pretty delicate reasons.

...but then I see that you are cycling, so I guess that the problem has been solved.
*insert here horrible punch-line*
*badump thush!*

...OK, short message as I want to write a longer but also readable message within the coming week.

Diet-wise, I am aware that some recent studies suggest that as long as your calories intake is below or equal to your consumption, the exact time of absorption is not fundamental.
Or: carbs/proteins/etc. late at night or as soon as you wake up are fine, just don't go overboard. If you do go overboard, you will gain weight even by eating too much salad (hard to do that, really).

A different matter is how efficient absorption can be.
From what I can recall, carbohydrates should be timed before training sessions/exercise, as they give you "energy" that turns into "deposits" if not used within a few hours and are in excess.
Or: bread before training can give you energy, but if you don't consume those 400 calories, they will become love handles in 3 days or so.

Proteins should instead help you to maintain muscle and replace it after strenous exercise, and the maintenance part should be quite regular.
Or: muscles get smaller by the hour (72 hours without training, as BryanM mentioned), so you need to get "replacement material" regularly, or the body will recover muscular mass more slowly.

Personally, I eat proteins at lunch and dinner (plus nuts during the day), and concentrate most of carbs intake for breakfast and lunch (i.e. before and after training...I can afford training 11 am - 1 pm).
Breakfast, I need something that goes with honey, so French-style bread or pastry are OK for me (well, Chinese/Japanese/Korean "French-style": you know the style from the Tokyo days, I guess).

I go with eggs for lunch (+vegetable servings, and rice), and fish/meat/legumes for dinner (+vegetable servings, some rice if i am hungry).
My experience is that mis-timing of carbs means I cannot run (no energy, cramps, etc.), and deficient intake of proteins means muscle pains and loss of mass after training.

It is also true that the later you have your first meal, the slower your metabolism will be for the rest of the day, and the lower the general consumption will be.
Sumotori (...the sumo guys) delay breakfast on purpose to gain weight more easily, from I what I recall.

Personally, I eat within 10 minutes after waking up, also because I am one of those people who wake up with a ravenous hunger every single day (but in general I am "operative" for work within 30 minutes after waking up, tops: military training from many moons ago).

Of course, some proper reading on these matters will supersede any half-digested memory I have written down in this post.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:04 pm 


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I had a nerve-racking month in June but I did in fact stay on top of my exercise game pretty well. I also kept my job through the pandemic (and my health) so I try not to complain.

I've come to the realization that I do not eat enough protein to gain muscle. I do an okay job of keeping fit, but my frame is big and at some point becoming "fit" by running and swimming will make me look a bit boney. So, I need to put on muscle, and to do that I need to eat more protein. I'm starting to count it, and it will be a challenge to do this daily. I weigh about 193 at the moment, so I am supposed to get 193g of protein a day. I think my normal diet is about 100. 150 I can get to w/ a little extra work. Another 43 on top of that is going to be challenging. That is with high-repetitions in the gym, so that will be a bit of a change. I usually start doing sets of 8, but apparently that's the low end. Will probably push that up to 10 and hopefully not hurt myself. I don't start that until next week so stay tuned here for more updates.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:23 am 



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Quick comment: I am tempted to suggest a side of legumes for both meals, or perhaps even tuna. Alternatively, bigger portions of salmon/protein shake/etc. for breakfast, or perhaps chicken.
You quite literally need to learn to eat more proteins, because in my experience protein increases tend to give a rather unpleasant feeling of "stuffiness", during the day.

The other issue is that if your body fat percentage is also low (you can check online in various ways), then getting the daily intake right is a necessary precaution against burning muscular mass to produce enough power to lift/cycle. Cycling in particular is deceptive: it requires more power than running when you push big gears (higher resistance on spinning machines), and thus requires more proteins.

Professional cyclists have protein problems all the time because they can reach 3% body fat in some cases (ultra-light body=easy to climb uphill and sprint to the finish line), and in fact they eat protein gels DURING competitions (and, like, chicken breast at 5 am...). More than one pro says that gels are terrible, but the feeling of your body literally burning muscle just to move is also terrible.

My own experience is that slowly increasing portions and adding a side of legumes hidden in the veggies side (say: tomatoes, lettuce, carrots and lentils) can be really helpful, but I am a big eater (luckily!). Basically, at this stage you also need to train dietary patterns, and that is an extra layer of mental work that requires patience. On days that you're tired, completing big meals is a challenge.

...and then there is sleep as another component of the big picture, but this message looks long enough already.

EDIT:

10 vs. 8 reps is a bit tricky. It is generally also fine to try 9 reps (and in general, odd-number reps) when you use the pyramids method. My own experience is that experimenting with new measures/exercises/schemas should be considered a "moderate exercise day".

Better to say "today was too light: let's increase workouts" than "today was a killer: tomorrow I will not move from the bed", especially when bodies lie and tell us "bro this is too easy, let's add 30% more!".
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:15 am 


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Plot Twist: I'm a pescatarian technically, but I do not eat that much fish. Almost never as a main (except tuna salad). So that's part of the challenge. :) I have a ton of lentils and shit here, so adding 20g here and there at every meal is probably the best way to go.

I've hurt myself many times in the gym, so hopefully I don't do anything stupid this time (knock on wood). I have a reference of what I just finished so I should be pretty dialed in. For the lifts I will repeat, I will probably do the same weight I used for 8 reps 6 weeks ago for 10 reps now and go from there. New stuff, will take it slowly.

Sorry guys, no before and after pics.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:57 pm 



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Well, salmon and tuna increases could work, and there are a few other options that are protein-rich and could be interesting to you.
An alternative is to add half a can (or even less, depending on needs) of chick peas or other high-protein legumes, per meal.
We are ultimately talking about one-two extra tablespoons of food in your lunch and dinner, so even on days in which you are dead tired, you should be able to gulp down the important proteins.

I wanted to post my current schedule but I am feeling lazy about writing a longer post (ah!).
I am quickly ammassing and saving edits, though.
I must say that I have had a lucky streak for no less than 2 years when it comes to injuries, so I consider myself blessed.

Well, considering how the last 12 months have unfolded, I may be really lucky but "Winners take chances", or so the poem recites.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:22 pm 


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There's crazy amounts of protein in seafood, so if your beliefs and tastes allow I'd say to take advantage of it. Just space out your intake due to our shitty civilization's mercury pollution.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:06 am 


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Randorama wrote:
An alternative is to add half a can (or even less, depending on needs) of chick peas or other high-protein legumes, per meal.


I will probably do something like this. Legumes are easy to make. Ultimately I should finally learn how to make a fucking Dal curry... but, would need to find an Indian shop to get the real curry powder I'm convinced!

Quote:
I must say that I have had a lucky streak for no less than 2 years when it comes to injuries, so I consider myself blessed.


I have too, but you may have jinxed me. Last time I injured myself was probably 3 years ago, and it was when I decided to do a similar workout. Sad thing -- it wasn't even heavy weight at all. Anyway, fingers crossed! I will definitely be careful as I know I'm no spring chicken. Part of the reason I'm doing this. I generally am good about making exercise part of my lifestyle - even going when I'm dreadfully hungover. But sometimes the world around me prevents me. 2011 that fucking tsunami meant the state run gyms (the ones I went to) were closed for a while. A couple of years later they had to renovate the main one I went to b/c it was too old (less than 20 years, btw). Fucking Japan.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:45 pm 



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+1 for Mortificator's comment: after all, I have seafood often enough because of this reason (and crossing fingers that I don't die from mercury poisoning....).
I would add that I understand "seafood" as "sea critters with shells", as I somehow believe that in American English you started calling "seafood" anything from the sea.
Nothing against it, but just to be sure, my seafoods of choice are shrimps, vongolae, crabs and a few other crustaceans.

Mortificator, I tried to resist but...was your injury because of the two many Cho Reppa Dans? (Re: the joke on Andy Bogard, somewhere :wink: )

GP: "dreadfully hungover" :| :| :| Enjoy responsibly, not much because of the age, but because after a given point, any alcohol quickly turns into love handles (ahem!).
Jokes aside, drunken training sessions were OK when we were young and awesome. Now that we are only awesome, they are best avoided.

If you happen to have a good amount of patience, you can try to learn to prepare "pasta & fagioli", or in general to mix legumes to your pasta.
Boiled lentils and tomatoes, diced thin, are a lovely fresh condiment you can add to any pasta+oil base (and parmesan cheese, of course).
Really, lots of veggies and legumes can be boiled/lightly steamed/stir fried, added to pasta and turned into delicious meals.
Digesting will take longer though, as now I am used to rice and any time I eat pasta, I need to factor one more hour of digestion time.

...and said this, I am entering TL;DR territory:

Monday to Thursday, I give myself 2 h 10' to do the following:

40 minutes of calisthenics;
40 minutes of weightlifting;
40+ minutes of running & cycling;
10 minutes of stretching.

Friday, I warm up five minutes, then row one hour (today I eat 4 mins/1 kilometre), then stretch another five minutes.

For calisthenics I am finishing a semester of the following:

3 sessions of V-sit exercises
(hands and ass on the floor--> raise legs to form a V, raise body with arms pushing on the floor, hold 10 seconds-->open legs at 120 degrees, hold 10 seconds-->close, hold 5 seconds, legs to chest, raise)

6 sets of pull-ups with different grips (very wide, very narrow, standard, back and forward for each width), 15 repetitions if without weights, 12 if I wear 10 kgs (22 lbs?), 10 if I wear 15 kgs (31 lbs?), 7 if I wear 20 kgs (40 lbs?).

On two sets, I don't use weights but I raise my legs to V-sit position.

6 sets of push-ups, very close hands and scorpion feet, and I aim for speed and momentum (yes, this is a way to work on endurance, not strength; it's used in sports like rugby).
I lower the load to 10 kgs, basic weighted vest (60 reps), and do 2 sets without vest (90 reps).

6 sets of dips (push-ups at the parallel bars), same weights as per pull-ups, 2 series without vest but I am trying to learn doing them with legs in L-sit position (balance needs to improve).
30 repeats are OK at 20 kgs, but maybe 1-2 series. I focus on endurance if I am not wearing a vest, and can do up to 50 repetitions.

6 sets of front axis pull ups, i.e. pull ups in which I grab two bars aligned with the front axis of my body. Same weights and numbers as above, but these ones are definitely easier (ex-swimmer, and the movements focus more on the dorsal muscles used in butterfly/free style strokes).

I randomize weight loads and actual execution of the exercises, but I make sure that:

A. By Thursday, I have used 20 kgs loads at least two days, 15 kgs one day, 10 kgs a fourth day;
B. I do the 3 (V-sit)+6 sets (x4) each day.

For weights, I use a number of machines like the leverage press for the chest or the high pully for trap(ezoid)s.
I usually follow these rules:

A. 3 machines, pyramid+reverse pyramid (i.e. decrease to 2-3 reps at 100 kgs, then go down again), one movement for lower body, 2 for upper body;
B. No faliure/killing efforts, and focus on functional movements that I used in the sports I played.
Case in point, I do the vertical leg press (back almost parallel to the floor, push weights up), which is a key machine for training in cycling (and yes, I can do 2-3 reps at 340 kgs, but 400 kgs I could recover).

I believe that the weight part should be lighter than calisthenics, and more focused on increasing strength and endurance while avoiding dramatic size increases (see the "avoid failure" and "functional movement" comments). Calisthenics require more focus and concentration, too, and I also need 40' or so in which the machines guide my movements and ease my cognitive burden, so to speak.

For running/cycling, I tend to mix 30/10 minutes, 20/20 minutes (i.e. I run 30 or cycle 30 minutes). I add any leftover time from the first two parts to this part, so I may e.g. run 23 mins and cycle 20 mins.
I try to run at a decent pace (13, 14 kmts/hour), and cycle on a spinning machine at 30 kmts/hour, but with quite high endurance/gear (ex-cyclist, *way* easier than running).

I conclude with 10 minutes of stretching, but extra minutes are fine if the body asks for them.

Grand total is around 10 hours per week, but with an emphasis on asymmetry: Friday rowing feels definitely lighter to me (ex-rower, too...), and one hour of rowing feels like one hour of deep meditation at times. Nothing but the rythmic sound of the machine and the muscles slowly tensing and then expanding, getting tired but satisfied. Every once in a while I am actually tempted to spend one week just rowing 2 hours, Monday to Friday, and be one with the universe or something.

On top of this, I only walk to move around (2 kilometres per day, 5-6 kmts during week-ends, per day), and buying groceries has become a sort of rucking training session (i.e. I bring a backpack to buy food for at least one week, two people).

Diet, I may go for another TL; DR if you guys don't kill me after this one :lol:
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Last edited by Randorama on Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:26 pm 


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Nice! That's a good workout. I actually do pullups ("pretty" wide, and not wide at all). I was up to 3 sets of 10 reps at one point but that was a while ago. I will probably do about that much on back day in my upcoming cycle, if possible. Gotta remember I did very few pullups for the whole pandemic (despite having a pull up bar the park I walked in every day). That really is embarrassing.

The one thing I'm worried about is dead lift. Never been my strong suit but i need to strengthen my back, badly. I will do pretty light weight. I did the bar yesterday after a jog and wound up inadvertently doing stiff leg dead lift -- a great exercise, but not for the back. :)

Drinking: I have reeled it in considerably. This week I've actually had a bit of whiskey and a few beers but nothing too crazy. For most of the pandemic I only drank on the weekends, and even then, just a few cocktails. I'll still go to a picnic and have quite a few beers but my consumption in California is probably about 20% of my overall consumption in Chicago.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:57 pm 


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Dude, 'member Tae Bo? I would have forgotten all about it if I wasn't reminiscing about the 90's due to all the Tokimeki reminiscing going on, and that's even with my underjustified animosity toward Billy Blanks. Something about those corporate Zumba images on image search make my skin crawl, the models look like the life's been squeezed out of them.

I never really understood why these fad aerobics videos were never about actually learning how to dance a bit, since if you're gonna look like an idiot bouncing around your living room, well, wouldn't it be ideal to have something to show for it?


Last edited by BryanM on Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:49 am 


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BryanM wrote:
Dude, 'member Tae Bo? I would have forgotten all about it if I was reminiscing about the 90's due to all the Tokimeki reminiscing going on, and that's even with my underjustified animosity toward Billy Blanks. Something about those corporate Zumba images on image search make my skin crawl, the models look like the life's been squeezed out of them.

I never really understood why these fad aerobics videos were never about actually learning how to dance a bit, since if you're gonna look like an idiot bouncing around your living room, well, wouldn't it be ideal to have something to show for it?


Barely -- those guys rose to fame when I was in the East. You'd have to have gone way our of your way (or actually like American Football) to know about them.
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