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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:00 am 


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Blinge wrote:
So is this intermittent fasting / time restricted eating malarky a load of bollocks or what?

Doesn't seem to be much real science about it.

The idea is to keep your blood sugar low, preventing insulin generation. Apparently a side effect of insulin is that is causes the body to store all the excess calories. Replacing most processed meals with stuff high in fiber should have the same effect.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:07 am 


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that is a massive oversimplification from what i've seen.


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:19 am 


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Blinge wrote:
So is this intermittent fasting / time restricted eating malarky a load of bollocks or what?
Doesn't seem to be much real science about it.


Any answer, would depend on how you intended to apply and a more specific description of what, you personally understand by "intermittent fasting / time restricted eating".

As for; "Doesn't seem to be much real science about it"; where's the profit in people not purchasing food? :wink:

If you have a good grasp of basic Endocrinology, are prepared to do your own experimentation and research, have the ability to be objective with your findings and can repeat your results,
you may find you are quite a ways ahead of "real" science, when it comes to this subject.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:47 pm 


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FWIW, I had a friend at work do The Whole 30 twice and lost quite a bit of weight. He's trying the intermittent fasting now, but he lost a good percentage of weight (and is REALLY tall) so not sure how it will work on his now even more freak of nature physique.

I did it too, for shits and giggles. But just once. Lost 18 pounds. Keep in mind though, every fucking winter I put on weight, and drop it in the summer. As late as a few years ago this was at least 10 pounds each swing, and maybe 15. (Keep in mind I do a fair amount of cardio exercise - and always have). The last couple of summers though I was not able to put off what I put on (I think we can blame a lot of this on living in the US and the average portion size when compared to Japan). Anyway, The Whole 30 got me back to my usual summer weight while in Japan. Actually a little lower as I lost a few more pounds in the next week.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:57 pm 


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Zen wrote:
If you have a good grasp of basic Endocrinology, are prepared to do your own experimentation and research, have the ability to be objective with your findings


I am not going to tell you guys I know a lot about IF, but I know a lot about my experimentation with it and am willing to share that with you.

What you should know about me - cleaned my diet up back in 2012. Went with the eat real food with a few ingredients you can pronounce approach. At the time was still eating throughout the day. Weight dropped from 190ish to around 175/180.

Fast forward to June 2016 - real food approach is still serving me well. I had been getting up for work around 5:30 - going to work and eating around 8. I started to notice I was no longer hungry at 8 so I figured lets see if I can make it to noon. I made noon easily and condensed to an eight hour window (noon to 8).

I wasn't sure what to expect. My barometer became these three points:
- Am I starving before noon?
- Am I getting light headed?
- Are my work outs suffering?

The preliminary answer to all three was no. As the months went on the answer stayed no so I just kept at it. Weight leveled out around 170 at this point. Eight hour eating window was great - and in the instance of social gatherings I am flexible enough that I am willing to break it and at the point where if I do getting back on track is like breathing to me. It just happens naturally.

Let's fast forward to September 17'. I now am no longer hungry as noon rolls around. I figure what the hell - let me see if I can push breakfast back a few more hours. I naturally wake up now between 4:30 and 5 AM - I tried to push eating back to 4 PM (same barometer questions) but there were times I wouldn't eat till 4:30/5 PM and I was ridiculously hungry by then. 20 - 21 hour fasting window proved to be a bit much. I settled on 3 PM (so I eat between 3 and 4) and adhering to the same questions this worked beautifully for me.

Up around 5 - relax - little water and black coffee. Black coffee is not a fast breaker and beneficial with regards to fat burning, insulin sensitivity, autophagy, and AMPK (it's an enzyme that inhibits fat storage).

I get to the office (I work in a gym - and when I am not playing vidya games this is the stuff I immerse myself in:) around 7 AM. Work out in a fasted state and go through the rest of my work day on just water. Eat around 3/3:30 - and then again around 7. Wash rinse repeat. Been almost a year at the 19/20 hour window. It is pretty restrictive though - on the weekends I eat breakfast whenever I feel like it but will still close up shop by 8 PM if we are home.

Like Zen said - it is really a giant experiment that you figure out as you go along. Two years and counting - my blood work is great - my weight is still 170.

I'm glad this topic came up here. Although here? Of all places? There seems to be a few people here that know their shit too so that is always a plus. I would love to hear more thoughts and kick this stuff around. I'm also happy to answer any questions anyone has about my experience.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:02 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
I did it too, for shits and giggles. But just once. Lost 18 pounds.
Impressive. Anything to report back on the mental front from your trip? You didnt speak to God or anything like that? :wink:

Stevens wrote:
I'm glad this topic came up here. Although here? Of all places? There seems to be a few people here that know their shit too so that is always a plus.
Its not that unusual really. Most of us here are pretty OCD about our interests and as those interests happen to be niche tier gaming, well, your bound to meet some interesting characters.
For example, I put more mass on a film discussion in off topic here, than I would in a dedicated film forum.
Your own approach to IF seems to have worked out well. That's what its all about. There are chaps on dedicated forums, arguing this stuff for years, who have never even tried it :roll:


So we are all on the same page here, I define Fasting as anything past two or three days and this is exceedingly important; water only. Nothing else.
Toothpaste? No. Water only. Medicine/drugs? NO. WATER ONLY!
Intermittent fasting, I define as going some hours beyond stomach emptying. This can vary, of course. Ultimately, ensuring no backing-up of calories, is the optimal approach to timing Macro intake.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:51 pm 


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Zen wrote:
Impressive. Anything to report back on the mental front from your trip?


Agree with your definitions on fasting. I've never just straight up fasted myself.

I will take a stab at the mental front - nothing super major but, how do I put this? I'm not a slave to eating anymore if that makes sense. I don't spend time thinking about when or what I'm going to eat, I've made these decisions ahead of time. It's one less thing to think about. I'm rarely straight up hungry and low blood sugar rage is a distant memory.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:35 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
I'm not a slave to eating anymore if that makes sense.
Its a huge step.
An infinitesimal number of people ever make it.

Between gut and cock, is a miracle that anyone gets anything done.
In the main, people grossly underestimate how much they are being led by both.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:06 pm 


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Zen wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:
I did it too, for shits and giggles. But just once. Lost 18 pounds.
Impressive. Anything to report back on the mental front from your trip? You didnt speak to God or anything like that? :wink:


Nah, not really. But it is worth knowing my background. Up until age 19, I was pretty huge. I grew up in Texas, and was an offensive lineman. So not hard to believe I weighed a bit over 250 at age 16. I could hold my own in the gym though (benched 290, etc.). 1 year of college, and I didn't gain a single pound: however I lost all my muscle, and gained 2 inches on my waist. At 19 I lost a good 65 pounds or so. I more or less kept it off for the next 20+ years, but I would fluctuate... usually put on 10 or so in the winter and lose it in the summer. I did have a couple of times I got up to a soft 205 or so, but would within a year get it down to 180-185 (and once below 175 which did not look healthy). That's all to say, I will almost always see a fat kid in the mirror. I also come from shitty genes (lots of heart attacks) so try to stay healthy.

Anyway, the American lifestyle the last few years was making it hard for me to get to my party in the desert physique each summer. GF was quite keen to try something new (she works out all the time) so offered to make most of the food. There's no question it was healthy and it helped, but I think some of it is a bit ridiculous. No dairy at all was a bitch (especially b/c I like a shot of cream in my coffee) and not totally sure it helped. Also worth noting is that for most of it, my girlfriend made us similar portion sizes, which was far lower than normal for me. So not only was I eating better, I was eating way less than usual (but not less than other diets I had been on, I would say).

I did get light headed a bit, but also keep in mind I was swimming a good 3000 yards twice a week, and did HIIT (to the tune of 5+ miles) on a treadmill twice a week, at the age of 43. Bicycle is also my main form of transportation.

The long term effects of the diet for me which I am glad I took away:
- I check labels for added sugar, and usually pass on them. For example, "Natural Peanut butter" that has added cane sugar, I will opt out of for the stuff made w/ just peanuts. You'd be surprised how often plain ass oatmeal has added sugar. This was the most eye opening thing.
- I've written off cereal totally -- and I work in an office that has 30 brands or so in the kitchen, there to be eaten whenever.
- I lay way off the cheese. I buy groceries for lunch, and sliced cheese was a staple. Not any more. I will eat it, just not as much.
- Also don't buy crackers/chips for lunches or to have around the house, since I inhale them. At a restaurant, or for a specific meal, I'm cool with.

My main advice to anyone, backed up by my own experience and the aforementioned guy at the office: if you do it with a partner and they don't hit their goal and you do... lie.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:24 pm 


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Height, for context. 6'2"/3"?


GaijinPunch wrote:
1 year of college, and I didn't gain a single pound: however I lost all my muscle, and gained 2 inches on my waist.
Alcohol?

GaijinPunch wrote:
heart attacks
Gotta get your macros right, then. Pay close attention to your micro nutrient status, your teeth (yeah, I know that might sound strange),
never let them put you on Statins, keep your DHT up and tell the prostate alarmists to stick the finger up their own arse.

GaijinPunch wrote:
The long term effects of the diet for me which I am glad I took away:
If its at hand, its a temptation. You've obviously got a palate for that Acrylamide Umami. "Stay hungry".

GaijinPunch wrote:
My main advice to anyone, backed up by my own experience and the aforementioned guy at the office: if you do it with a partner and they don't hit their goal and you do... lie.
:D
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:28 pm 


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All these zany fads to monetize the incredible advice of "just eat less". Such goofy creatures humans are. I wonder if it's possible to monetize my "poop tracking" system somehow - probably not. Too scientific and useful... comparatively.

Here's a quote from Mr.Tate to give a male's perspective on the issue:

Quote:
There was a time at the Old Westside gym where I couldn’t gain weight to save my fucking life.

There was this dude who trained there who could just put on weight like fucking magic. He’d go from 198 to 308 and then to 275 and back down to 198. And he was never fat. It was amazing.

I finally asked him one day how he did it.

“You mean I never told you the secret to gaining weight? Come outside and I’ll fill you in.”

Now remember, we’re at Westside Barbell. And this guy wants to go outside to talk so no one else can hear. Think about that for a minute. What the hell is he going to tell me? This must be some serious shit if we have to go outside, I thought.

So we get outside and he starts talking.

“For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don’t care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that shit down and eat. That’s your breakfast.”

At this point I’m thinking this guy is nuts. But he’s completely serious.

“For lunch you’re gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don’t want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don’t care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can’t let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter.”

“For dinner you’re gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don’t like sardines, don’t put ’em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that fucker up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that shit over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the shit out of it.”

“Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that fucker. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals.”

This guy is in a zen-like state when he’s talking about this.

“Now you’re on the clock,” he continues. “After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you’re full. Don’t listen to that shit. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I’m telling you now, you’re going to get three or four pieces in and you’re gonna want to quit. You fucking can’t quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.

And if you can’t finish it, don’t you ever come back to me and tell me you can’t gain weight. ’Cause I’m gonna tell you that you don’t give a fuck about getting bigger and you don’t care how much you lift!”

Did I do it? Hell yeah. Started the next day and did it for two months. Went from 260 pounds to 297 pounds. And I didn’t get much fatter. One of the hardest things I’ve ever done in my life, though.


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No dairy at all was a bitch


Yesterday I had bisquits and chicken gravy for dinner. It was delicious. One of the top 10 best meals of my entire life.

Giving something like that up would be like giving up on life itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:27 am 



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BryanM wrote:
*snip*


:) Had a good laugh.

Thanks for this, this is awesome on all levels and is one of the most scientifically-accurate random anecdotes I've heard on the internetz. Layman's summary of thermodynamics if you will. Now if I can only find something similar on the (non)effects of alcohol on recreational lifting and weight management.

EDIT: Deleting the rest, realized that I'm repeating all the things I said on the last couple pages a few years ago.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:20 am 


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Zen wrote:
Height, for context. 6'2"/3"?


Yep, right about there.


Quote:
GaijinPunch wrote:
1 year of college, and I didn't gain a single pound: however I lost all my muscle, and gained 2 inches on my waist.
Alcohol?


Yes, but also cheap, shitty cafeteria food. Pancakes and Cap'n Crunch for dinner, etc.

Ironically I'm far healthier now then when I was even in my late 20's and had put the weight off. I quit smoking in 2003, and was up to about a pack and a half a day (#Japan). I drink a fair amount, but less than I used to. Exercise and diet [see above].

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If its at hand, its a temptation. You've obviously got a palate for that Acrylamide Umami. "Stay hungry".


For sure. I eat out of boredom. Not a good trait. So, I just make sure to have minimal bullshit lying around. I have snacked a bit more this last week as I don't seem to be putting any on. But still, that's more of a weekend thing.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:24 am 


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BryanM wrote:
snip


God damn. How much lifting was involved? I assume some typeof weights every day. Every time I try to bulk I put a shitload on in my gut. Probably not going to do that again.

Quote:
Quote:
No dairy at all was a bitch


Yesterday I had bisquits and chicken gravy for dinner. It was delicious. One of the top 10 best meals of my entire life.

Giving something like that up would be like giving up on life itself.


I know some people that go on fasts and have to give up on coffee. Fuck that... might as well not breathe.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:00 am 


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BryanM wrote:
All these zany fads to monetize the incredible advice of "just eat less". Such goofy creatures humans are. I wonder if it's possible to monetize my "poop tracking" system somehow - probably not. Too scientific and useful... comparatively.
I think we all know about "Calories in/calories out" etc., BryanM. Its interesting and informative to get to read about chaps experience with fasting.
also;you gotta mix your patented "poop" angle, into a discussion that relates to food?

BryanM wrote:
Here's a quote from Mr.Tate to give a male's perspective on the issue:
Whinny "Natty" = male?

GaijinPunch wrote:
God damn. How much lifting was involved? I assume some typeof weights every day. Every time I try to bulk I put a shitload on in my gut. Probably not going to do that again.
It a pretend "lesson", by a member of the "Natty" cult. Bitter, bitter bastards, of interest only from a psychopathological perspective.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:46 pm 


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How much lifting was involved? I assume some typeof weights every day. Every time I try to bulk I put a shitload on in my gut.


Not really, even the programs he used for his bodybuilding years were 50% rest days.

All increasing mass can do is raise the upper limit of what a body can do. If you're not already at that limit, it's hardly magic. This story is always more of a parable to tell ~150 lb kids that can't get past a ~135 lb bench to shame them into stop being sissies and eat an extra sandwich everyday.

There's always some pointdexter in the comments that opines that Dave was on steroids or growth hormone whenever this anecdote gets mentioned, and it's always redundant since we're talking about an elite athlete here.

Fallon Fox, the trans-sexual who beats the shit out of women in mixed martial arts always comes to my mind when weight gain comes up. You can just glance at the guy and see how scrawny and underscaled he is - at a higher weight class he would have destroyed all of his female opponents. Instead of all of them minus one.

Quote:
I think we all know about "Calories in/calories out" etc., BryanM.


The human body is not a bank account, Mystery Person. Fat and blood itself has a metabolic cost. A "tax" if you will.

If it worked like you're suggesting here, everyone would be 20,000 pounds or dead. Because you'd always be in the mythical "surplus" or "deficit" mode. They're not, because the entire concept doesn't match reality. At all.

X Average Calorie Diet for Y Body Trends toward Z Pounds and no further.

Quote:
also;you gotta mix your patented "poop" angle, into a discussion that relates to food?


Gee whiz, I wonder what could be more important to a diet than the end raw daily excreted output of said diet.

Quote:
the "Natty" cult


What the kind of trippy new age drugs are you on, man?

I want some. So I can use your telekinesis to move things around, instead of lowly base physical matter that exists in the real world.

How fast can you levitate btw?


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:24 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
The human body is not a bank account, Mystery Person. Fat and blood itself has a metabolic cost. A "tax" if you will.

If it worked like you're suggesting here, everyone would be 20,000 pounds or dead. Because you'd always be in the mythical "surplus" or "deficit" mode. They're not, because the entire concept doesn't match reality. At all.

X Average Calorie Diet for Y Body Trends toward Z Pounds and no further.
What? I was commenting on your "just eat less" comment and agreeing with it.
What is it that you think I am suggesting?

BryanM wrote:
What the kind of trippy new age drugs are you on, man?

I want some. So I can use your telekinesis to move things around, instead of lowly base physical matter that exists in the real world.

How fast can you levitate btw?
WTF are you ranting about :lol:?
I have no Idea what it is that you think I have said, to cause this comment
BryanM, please be less obtuse.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:50 pm 



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Let me go on a late night tangent, please!


I have had problems in my last period in Oz (2010-2011) up until my first semester in Sweden via Hungary (i.e. 2012, then until early 2013), so I was around 92-93 kgs at some point, for a mere 1,75 mts, and generally unfit.
After one shoulder reconstruction, rehab and slowly setting myself back into a proper training regime, I was a decent 81 kgs for a few years, while slowly building mass back.
For someone who played rugby (scrum half), water-polo and did plenty of rowing, I was relatively in good shape, and training around 10 hours per week (mix of gym and 1-2 swim sessions per week).
Most importantly, I slowly stopped drinking for a while, and had regular access to decent, cheap fresh food (which in Oz is a luxury, apparently).

I started losing some more weight in 2017, even though I am not sure on why, and I noticed a decent increase in cardio and strength capacity: I spent a lengthy period simply repeating simple routines, and all of a sudden i felt that I could lift more, row (inside, on the C2 machines) and run (outside) for longer distances.

Now that I am in the Middle Kingdom, I am leading a very healthy life also because access to western shitty food is basically impossible.
There are one million fruit shops (and tropical fruit is the norm), and fresh juice and green tea are the standard notions of "snack".
Even "pub food" (burgers and chips) is generally fresh and unprocessed, to the effect that I have witnessed some "Anglos" complaining that the pub down my building does not feel "original" ("thank God!", as they added).
Mind you, as an Italian i am used to eating fresh food, but I realized that by Chinese (and especially Guangdong) standards I ate relatively greasy and salty.

I am down to 76 kgs on average, with days that I am 74-75 kgs (i.e. when i avoid anything western/fried stuff for 4-5 days).
I am swimming and running (1 session x 2 hours each, and 1 hour long distance+1 hour specific activities such as e.g. butterfly, medium short-medium distance training, etc.), and mixing 3 sessions of weight lifting (basic stuff like bench press, squats, dips, etc.) with indoors cycling (yes, the track!) or just plain cycling. Some days I just hop on a bicycle and have proper road racing sessions, in perfect Italian style. That, and I am acting as a "weight lifting teacher" for the girls' volleyball team of my Uni, since a tradition here is that prof's who are into sports also "teach" the undergrad student teams, in one way or another.

I am possibly in the best shape ever, even if I don't think that the extra skin/belly will go away, at this point. Now I just need to grow taller, since the "shortest" of my students is 1,86 mts. At least they are all chubby (...yes, I have also been asked to constantly pressure them to lose their "bloody cellulite" :lol: ).
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:45 pm 


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From 209 lbs, to 171 lbs at 5'7", am I reading that correctly? Outfuckingstanding!

As for height; I've never met a Terrier that did not carry himself like a giant.
Its all relative.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:08 pm 



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Zen: I think that I am 5’ 8" and 29/32 "something’s"...or so the conversion table says. It’s funny because The kids I train seem to be convinced that ‘all westerners are tall" :lol: (ah, Asians and height issues...).


Today I was 76 kgs (167 pounds)...after training, but wearing cycling cleats :D

I have gone back to my mid-20’s weight, so I think that it is a good but not impressive result (still: thanks, of course!). What iI really appreciate is that I am handling the same training loads of 10 years ago, too. I have lost speed on any form of short distance activity except cycling. Actually, I was asked to join the senior track cycling team, of all things...

I must say that I really like proper sports rather than just lifting, but indoors cycling involves a good amount of strength and core training. I have seen lean guys in their 50s squatting 160 kgs with ease, 3 series x 10 repeats, before the actual cycling sessions. I guess that I have a lot to catch up :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:22 pm 


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Holy shit Rando - that's great! Feels good doesn't it:D?

Did a four day juice fast the week after Thanksgiving. This is something I've done before, but never since I started experimenting with IF.

I wasn't sure at first how long I was going to do it for, but by day three my supplies were running low and I kind of figured being that I fast 20 hours a day there was little point in going beyond day four. The entire fast from start to finish in all honesty was easy for me at this point.

Finished my supply of stuff and then broke my fast with Chinese food.

Back to normal the next day.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:07 am 



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I am slightly slimmer now (74 kgs for 1,74 mts), with heavier legs and still a solid core. Indoors cycling requires a powerful but not bulky core (bicycle control at high speeds requires strength), and powerful explosive legs. I should be at 9% body fat. I do gym-related exercises for upper strength (parallel bars, rings!), and I find them really beneficial. Squats for legs are a problem for my left knee, but I am having an easy time with everything else (e.g. leg pressing 200+ kgs). I am eating very healthy, but calorie intake is a pleasant problem in the less common direction: I need to be careful to eat enough.

Stevens: eh, I can were the same trousers of quite literally 20 years ago, but I can definitively lift more. I do feel that I have become more sensitive to cold. I currently leave in a warm place (Guangzhou, China), and the mild winter seems to have a negative effect anyway. I lived in Sweden before, so I wonder how much is shedding extra weight, and how much is simply adapting to a new environment (I live in a sub-tropical climate zone, so it's 2-3 months of coolness and 9 of roasting in humid weather).
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:54 pm 



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Randorama wrote:
Squats for legs are a problem for my left knee, but I am having an easy time with everything else (e.g. leg pressing 200+ kgs).


I'll be the annoying smart ass that offers unsolicited opinion, but here we go: That is not normal. Even ass-to-grass squats should have next to no impact on your knee joints, but only hips and ankles and ONLY IF you have structural/flexibility issues. In contrast, leg presses are knee destroyers that people that train strength athletes (like me) avoid like the plague, and trainers of body builders (unlike me) often have to live with despite the damage as it allows the higher volume training ideal for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

Sounds like bad form or habits, which may not be obvious previously but more pronounced at heavy weights. In any case, I wouldn't do leg presses if I had the slightest concern for my joint health, esp if you already have knee pain.

Edit: Have you tried doing lunges or reverse lunges? Those make an excellent replacement for leg presses.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:20 am 



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kane wrote:
Randorama wrote:
Squats for legs are a problem for my left knee, but I am having an easy time with everything else (e.g. leg pressing 200+ kgs).


I'll be the annoying smart ass that offers unsolicited opinion, but here we go: That is not normal. Even ass-to-grass squats should have next to no impact on your knee joints, but only hips and ankles and ONLY IF you have structural/flexibility issues. In contrast, leg presses are knee destroyers that people that train strength athletes (like me) avoid like the plague, and trainers of body builders (unlike me) often have to live with despite the damage as it allows the higher volume training ideal for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

Sounds like bad form or habits, which may not be obvious previously but more pronounced at heavy weights. In any case, I wouldn't do leg presses if I had the slightest concern for my joint health, esp if you already have knee pain.

Edit: Have you tried doing lunges or reverse lunges? Those make an excellent replacement for leg presses.


It's a rugby knee that mysteriously gives problems on squats but not leg presses. I had a few twists/sprains when playing rugby, and it gives me problems whenever I lower my body (more of a itch than true pain). I feel the same problem when trying pistol squats, for instance.

Leg press is used in cycling because it partly simulates the downward pedalling movement in terms of explosiveness, but it is often a "last resort" measure (as in: anything else is better). Just to be sure: I had no problems with pushing heavy workloads, the 2-3 times I tried them out (i.e. they are not really part of my training schedule). Exactly why they don't give me a problem is a mystery, though.

Re: lunges and reverse lunges. I am going to try them next week, thanks for the tip!
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:59 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
kane wrote:
Randorama wrote:
Squats for legs are a problem for my left knee, but I am having an easy time with everything else (e.g. leg pressing 200+ kgs).


I'll be the annoying smart ass that offers unsolicited opinion, but here we go: That is not normal. Even ass-to-grass squats should have next to no impact on your knee joints, but only hips and ankles and ONLY IF you have structural/flexibility issues. In contrast, leg presses are knee destroyers that people that train strength athletes (like me) avoid like the plague, and trainers of body builders (unlike me) often have to live with despite the damage as it allows the higher volume training ideal for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

Sounds like bad form or habits, which may not be obvious previously but more pronounced at heavy weights. In any case, I wouldn't do leg presses if I had the slightest concern for my joint health, esp if you already have knee pain.

Edit: Have you tried doing lunges or reverse lunges? Those make an excellent replacement for leg presses.


It's a rugby knee that mysteriously gives problems on squats but not leg presses. I had a few twists/sprains when playing rugby, and it gives me problems whenever I lower my body (more of a itch than true pain). I feel the same problem when trying pistol squats, for instance.

Leg press is used in cycling because it partly simulates the downward pedalling movement in terms of explosiveness, but it is often a "last resort" measure (as in: anything else is better). Just to be sure: I had no problems with pushing heavy workloads, the 2-3 times I tried them out (i.e. they are not really part of my training schedule). Exactly why they don't give me a problem is a mystery, though.

Re: lunges and reverse lunges. I am going to try them next week, thanks for the tip!


This is triggering the shit out of me :lol:

Also; good luck with those lunges and any reconsideration of the squat, Randorama.
My condolences to your knees, in advance.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:32 pm 


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I like pistol squats, they have served me well.

They're putting scaffolding around my office. Colleagues are all "boo it's going to be dark and depressing" and I'm like PLAYGROUND:D

It's perfect to start working on my press flag.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:36 pm 


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Squats kinda hurt my back. I'm in the long torso camp, which is a fucker for the most part. I've thrown my back out badly about 3 times (all before the age of 30). I've realized now the key is continual stretching of it at any cost. But still, I stay away from exercises that demand perfect form.

That being said, I am doing more weights than cardio these days and I might be adding dead lifts. I'm doing two types of lunges. Normal, and the kind where you put your foot back on something. Debating doing the one -legged squat thing. We shall see. Are you guys frothing at the mouth yet?
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:37 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Are you guys frothing at the mouth yet?


I'm certainly frothing somewhere.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:41 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:

Debating doing the one -legged squat thing. We shall see.


If you decide to move forward with this I can point you towards some excellent progressions if you wish. Taller individuals can have some extra difficulty due to the length of their femur, but it is still attainable. A counter weight can be helpful too.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:59 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Squats kinda hurt my back. I'm in the long torso camp, which is a fucker for the most part. I've thrown my back out badly about 3 times (all before the age of 30). I've realized now the key is continual stretching of it at any cost. But still, I stay away from exercises that demand perfect form.

That being said, I am doing more weights than cardio these days and I might be adding dead lifts. I'm doing two types of lunges. Normal, and the kind where you put your foot back on something. Debating doing the one -legged squat thing. We shall see. Are you guys frothing at the mouth yet?

Not that I enjoy watching footage of injuries but could you get that on camera if you decide to go through with it? For educational purposes, you understand.

And make sure you mic that bitch up, GP. I want to hear the tear!
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