Weightlifting/exercise thread

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Stevens
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Stevens »

Damn homey. I thought I got an early start. You always up that early?

I feel the first 4 hours of my day are my most productive. I'm up at 5. I'm eating at work today so I spent about 30 minutes cutting some lettuce, cucumber, and red pepper. Ill toss a little salt on it and some avocado, probably eat around noon.

Then I fill my two water bottles, they're a liter and a half each (It's hot and gross at work), with a counter top reverse osmosis filter. Great purchase btw.

Fasted 27 hours Sunday to Monday and about 20 Monday into Tuesday. Still toying with pushing Sunday's fast into Tuesday. Think I will at some point.

Coffee - Cold brew it at home, have for like a decade now. Ill do two ounces in the morning and by 6:15 or so no more caffeine for the day.

Leg day! Stay strong farm.
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DDDP
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by DDDP »

I'm up at 5am too (EDT) but wfh eliminates 95% of the driving and prep. I'm very blessed and grateful for that. Plus my gym stuff is hanging in my garage-office, so I'm getting a few reps of something invigorating while the tea-water boils. I've toyed w the idea of putting a spare crt + shmup setup out here but it would be too distracting.

Nicely done on the fast by the way! Keep up that patient consistency. What is on the docket for leg day? Do you primarily use machines or plates or what? My bodybuilding buddy follows the more traditional "muscle group day" method and when we do leg days together... it's killer. I admit I'm a bit out of my element compared to you guys; you all seem to keep meticulous track of your progress, goals, expected outcome etc and I can barely be arsed to write the day's "big lifts" on my whiteboard (divided into 7 columns / 7 days) :lol:

EDIT: oh thanks again for the mix GaijinPunch. It was good house. Relaxed and upbeat with the proper amount of "hooks" to pull my ear back into it throughout the mix.
Randorama
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Randorama »

GP:

I admit that these days I struggle to eat anything processed. I mean, imagine that you eat chips/crisps and you only feel the actual chemical ingredients in them, and not the flavour they should form on your tongue...

Mac'n Cheese should be cultural heresy for me ("yank food!"), but then again there are plenty of similar dishes in Italy and central Europe (something similar in Italian cuisine is "timballo", I think).

Never digested them, and to be honest I would also struggle with the lightest lasagne variants. My grandma at some point was despairing about my attachment to my roots, or something.

Certainly, once in a blue moon sounds consequence-free, with the diet you follow (I mean, I still eat chips).

DDDP: I actually have a weekly schedule for everything, but for training it really boils down to "daily schedule, x5 (i.e. Monday to Friday), and then x23 (i.e. a semester, as i worked in Academia)".

You can have a well-oiled weekly routine and then you can add weeks, months and even years as the next steps of planning (...and at work I use similar planning principles, so it all adds up).

Schedules are in a sense a form of freedom: you decide what to do, what goals to reach, etc. and then you execute the plan. No need to check what to do next means that you can enjoy the scenery along the ride :wink:

The Coffee rant:

I am usually up at 7.30, drink scented black tea with danish pastry/biscuits/a carb source of vegetable fat as a breakfast (I struggle to absorb fats, otherwise).

By 8.30, I have a cup of Italian espresso ("short black"?), so it's 6 grams or so (1/4 oz, more or less) with, uh, 50 cl of water (or 30? Whatever the size is).

Force of habit, but I guess that they would shred my passport if I would stop drinking coffee. I already eat pasta once per week only, so I must be on a "suspects" list or something....

I have another cup of tea at 10/10.30: Pu'er/Pu'erh, which is a Chinese variety from the eponymous city.

This could be described as the tea for coffee drinkers, as it is strong and has a musty flavour. It should be a Chinese variant of Assam tea, and it is "almost-black", strength-wise. I train after this, usually.

I work from home on mornings, and go to the office in the afternoons 2-3 times per week (meetings, use of specific software, projects on the cloud...).

I have another espresso/short black after lunch, and two more "yellow" and "green" tea cups (depends on mood) within 5 pm. So, I'd say that I total 12 grams of coffee (more or less), and another 10 grams of tea.

N.B.: I am pretty sure that "yellow" is a fake label for the variety I drink, which is a fruitier, stronger version of green tea. Yellow tea is supposed to be VERY rare.

I usually sleep at 12.30, as 7 hours serve me well for the night, but the last 20-30 minutes of the day I rest on the bed, in the dark, usually screen-reading or writing zany stuff like this post.
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MJR
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

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I guess I could join in, since I've been begun doing weightlifting. I started two years ago doing gradually larger weights on dumbbells at home (max 27lb / 12,5kg), and then pandemic happened. After my second shot, I went to a local gym and planned up a training program with a professional. Been doing it for 6 weeks, 2-3 times a week, and here's where my training program currently is:

Leg press 220lb
Prone leg curl 50lb
Leg extension 50lb
Pullover 95lb
Combound row 80lb
Vertical chest 80lb
Overhead press 55lb
Abdominal 100lb

All done 2 x 15reps. I could put more, but I decided to keep it very safe and careful. Some people mentioned that the leg extension is dangerous to knees. True, if you extend them to the full. The trick is to keep them always slightly bent, at least that's what the training instructor told me and I chose to believe him.
After that, I go for three sets of dumbbells (27lb kg for bicep curl, 33lb for shoulder press and 44lb for bench press), all 3 x 7

Then 2-3 times a week I run, 6-7 km / 3.5-4.5 miles including long patch of stairs on a hill, and take three hera protein shakes per day. I also keep food diary, and make sure I eat 500kcal less than I need every day but no more or less. Also some extra vitamins/magnesium/zinc based on the data on my food diary.

It has worked well so far, I can run longer without getting exhausted, lift more, and the composition of my body has been making steady progress. I am progressing very slow, but it's fine since at age of 47 I am trying to avoid injuries. I only exercise and lift enough to get "sweaty" but not so that it is painful. When I was 30, I did Hapkido (got blue belt), but I no longer feel comfortable doing flying kicks with 102kg / 224lb body weight.. :lol:
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Stevens
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

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DDDP wrote:I'm up at 5am too (EDT) but wfh eliminates 95% of the driving and prep. I'm very blessed and grateful for that. Plus my gym stuff is hanging in my garage-office, so I'm getting a few reps of something invigorating while the tea-water boils. I've toyed w the idea of putting a spare crt + shmup setup out here but it would be too distracting.

Nicely done on the fast by the way! Keep up that patient consistency. What is on the docket for leg day? Do you primarily use machines or plates or what? My bodybuilding buddy follows the more traditional "muscle group day" method and when we do leg days together... it's killer. I admit I'm a bit out of my element compared to you guys; you all seem to keep meticulous track of your progress, goals, expected outcome etc and I can barely be arsed to write the day's "big lifts" on my whiteboard (divided into 7 columns / 7 days) :lol:

EDIT: oh thanks again for the mix GaijinPunch. It was good house. Relaxed and upbeat with the proper amount of "hooks" to pull my ear back into it throughout the mix.
Leg day is very simple! Pistol Squats. One set each side. +1 rep for progressive overload. When I get around 12 -13 I'll increase the depth about an inch.
For about a year I was doing them with a base that was 13 inches from the floor, I cut that to 12 about a month ago. I stayed at that depth cause it as working at the time and I wasn't seeing the rush to move on. It allowed me to really hone my technique, which admittedly I am still doing.
Did 11 on each side today. Funny thing is even though the base (which is a plyo box and some books) is 12 inches off the floor my ROM on them is >95%. I'm really not far off from resting at the bottom, but naturally I lack the ankle mobility. Hopefully the path I am taking will get me there.
I have done full ROM PS's with a counter weight/with my heel raised. I dialed it back cause I wanted them legit and knew that while it was cool to do them those ways in the long run doing them with my feet flat on the floor (barefoot) would yield far greater long term gains. Full disclosure the leg in front of me is not straight throughout the exercise, but I'll get full ROM first then concentrate on correcting that. Strength is the more important thing here: )

Welcome to the party MJR, looks like a solid program! Stay strong!
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DDDP
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by DDDP »

MJR wrote: It has worked well so far, I can run longer without getting exhausted, lift more, and the composition of my body has been making steady progress. I am progressing very slow, but it's fine since at age of 47 I am trying to avoid injuries. I only exercise and lift enough to get "sweaty" but not so that it is painful. When I was 30, I did Hapkido (got blue belt), but I no longer feel comfortable doing flying kicks with 102kg / 224lb body weight.. :lol:
Sweet, another voice joins the fold! Have you given thought to exercises that focus on joint / connective tissue strength and health? Isometrics, active stretches, advanced yoga, floor / parallette gymnastics, light medicine ball work, and so forth? It's worth looking into as a supplement to your weightlifting, which can sometimes grow the red muscle tissue faster than the connective/tendon tissue and cause problems. Which I guess makes sense, since collagenous tissue takes up to 3 years to fully repair/replace in the body. When I was coming down in weight I was more fearful of my joints/tendons than whether I would lose fat at such-and-such rate. Avoiding a busted knee was more important than a beach-bod by summer. So I invested a lot of time into isometrics and light weight + high volume work. My joints are built like well-lubricated stainless steel bearings. Flexiblity / stretching pays off exponentially as well. You'd be amazed how strong you feel / relieved you feel when you can touch your toes and back-bridge on a daily basis without pain, like being a kid again. And these are not unreasonable progressions to reach in a few months of patient stretching.

Looking forward to hearing more and learning more from you and the rest.

@Stevens oooo pistol squats, my bane. I cannot do a single one with clean form but I am working my way -- slowly -- into a deeper and deeper angle. Shrimp squats are easy peasy, so I dunno what it is. I comfortably do a sum of 15-20 minutes of bus stop squats throughout the day, so I know it isn't flexibility / range of motion either. Any suggestions for a regression? Am I gonna have to get out the chinup assistance bands and strap em to a ring or something (please say no)?

@Randorama I fully agree, solid discipline and faithful routine means freedom. I enjoy that aspect of looking ahead into harder progressions and puzzling out how to get there, inserting the daily/weekly exercises into their slots. I've already built the "slots" through my faithful daily habit, so now it's just a matter of what "toys" I wanna play with in the gym that day. My schedule affords me the lazy (imo) route of being a volume guy, so I pretty much just fire-and-forget my daily routine by adding it to my board ("yeah, I guess I'll do a third day of those, but I'm sick of THAT" *scribbles off board*) several times a week and then poof, I have the progression after awhile. I don't set timed goals or anything because I think I'd get discouraged, and I don't count calories or weight myself, for the same reason.
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MJR
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by MJR »

DDDP wrote:
MJR wrote: It has worked well so far, I can run longer without getting exhausted, lift more, and the composition of my body has been making steady progress. I am progressing very slow, but it's fine since at age of 47 I am trying to avoid injuries. I only exercise and lift enough to get "sweaty" but not so that it is painful. When I was 30, I did Hapkido (got blue belt), but I no longer feel comfortable doing flying kicks with 102kg / 224lb body weight.. :lol:
Sweet, another voice joins the fold! Have you given thought to exercises that focus on joint / connective tissue strength and health? Isometrics, active stretches, advanced yoga, floor / parallette gymnastics, light medicine ball work, and so forth? It's worth looking into as a supplement to your weightlifting, which can sometimes grow the red muscle tissue faster than the connective/tendon tissue and cause problems. Which I guess makes sense, since collagenous tissue takes up to 3 years to fully repair/replace in the body. When I was coming down in weight I was more fearful of my joints/tendons than whether I would lose fat at such-and-such rate. Avoiding a busted knee was more important than a beach-bod by summer. So I invested a lot of time into isometrics and light weight + high volume work. My joints are built like well-lubricated stainless steel bearings. Flexiblity / stretching pays off exponentially as well. You'd be amazed how strong you feel / relieved you feel when you can touch your toes and back-bridge on a daily basis without pain, like being a kid again. And these are not unreasonable progressions to reach in a few months of patient stretching.

Looking forward to hearing more and learning more from you and the rest.
Thanks, very good points there! If push ups and pull ups count, I do those few times a week. But I know I should do more. For this very reason (fear of joints and tendons getting damaged) I am very very careful of not putting too much weights too fast, it's a delicate balance since I don't want to lose progress either. I do also stretching exercises I learned from hapkido; these are invaluable if you need to stay in one piece. Thankfully I have always been able to touch my toes because I never gave up stretching.
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Stevens
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Stevens »

DDDP wrote: Sweet, another voice joins the fold! Have you given thought to exercises that focus on joint / connective tissue strength and health? Isometrics, active stretches, advanced yoga, floor / parallette gymnastics, light medicine ball work, and so forth? It's worth looking into as a supplement to your weightlifting, which can sometimes grow the red muscle tissue faster than the connective/tendon tissue and cause problems.

@Stevens oooo pistol squats, my bane. I cannot do a single one with clean form but I am working my way -- slowly -- into a deeper and deeper angle. Shrimp squats are easy peasy, so I dunno what it is. I comfortably do a sum of 15-20 minutes of bus stop squats throughout the day, so I know it isn't flexibility / range of motion either. Any suggestions for a regression? Am I gonna have to get out the chinup assistance bands and strap em to a ring or something (please say no)?

@Randorama I fully agree, solid discipline and faithful routine means freedom. I enjoy that aspect of looking ahead into harder progressions and puzzling out how to get there, inserting the daily/weekly exercises into their slots. I've already built the "slots" through my faithful daily habit, so now it's just a matter of what "toys" I wanna play with in the gym that day. My schedule affords me the lazy (imo) route of being a volume guy, so I pretty much just fire-and-forget my daily routine by adding it to my board ("yeah, I guess I'll do a third day of those, but I'm sick of THAT" *scribbles off board*) several times a week and then poof, I have the progression after awhile. I don't set timed goals or anything because I think I'd get discouraged, and I don't count calories or weight myself, for the same reason.
On your first point - More people need to shout that from the roof tops. Connective tissue takes forever to catch up to muscles in terms of growth and repair. Progress carefully people! This is one of the biggest reasons that even if 2 or 3 reps of something harder seems like a good idea you're better off regressing to a previous level you can do 5+ reps of. Far less orthopedic stress and far less chance of injury. As I like to say - you actually get stronger faster. Also at our collective ages it takes far longer to heal.

I'm familiar with, but never attempted shrimp squats. I believe as far as balance is concerned they are a bit more difficult than pistols. In fact one of the first pistol progressions beyond a full ROM pistol squat is moving your arms behind you. Since your knee is the first thing to the floor its depth isn't as deep as a pistol.

As far as progressions - it really depends on what you have on hand. I started with a regular old chair with my pistols and as my strength and balance increased I moved to plyo boxes and as I stated earlier a really low plyo box with books on top of it. I feel with all exercises it is really important to know where you are stopping - which is why I love things like the books/boxes when I do pistol squats/handstand push ups. I don't like guessing if I'm going far enough. That was a lesson learned through injury a few years back. A few mechanical tips that have helped me greatly with regards to my balance - full credit to Pavel:

- Tight, engaged core

- The power of a fist - arms straight out in front. Strong. Really squeeze your fists. The amount of power and balance they help you generate is remarkable. As he says in Naked Warrior - shake someone's hand. Now engage your core and make a fist and do it. The increase in force you can generate is amazing. Will really help you keep your balance as your depth increases.

The following I figured out on my own:

- One max inhale on the way down.
- One strong exhale on the way up.
- At the bottom I refer to it as touch and go. Feel my butt hit the bottom and I reverse directions. I don't use momentum, just a gentle reverse. Coming out of a pistol from a dead stop is something for later on: )

Any other questions fire away! I'll try to be as helpful as I can.

What are bus stop squats? Never heard of them and couldn't find anything on the Google.

As to your last few points:

Setting goals is a great thing. Saying I'm going to do it by a certain day/time is not, at least with intermediate/advanced stuff. Our bodies will always get stronger, but they do it at their own pace. The further you go with this stuff the longer it takes to build strength.

I don't count calories either. If you're diet is basically on point - you're eating real, good food you're fine. I weigh myself like once a month or when I move to a harder progression of something because it isn't uncommon for me to put on a pound or two when that happens.
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MJR
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

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Stevens wrote:
DDDP wrote:
Welcome to the party MJR, looks like a solid program! Stay strong!
Oh and thanks! :)
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Randorama »

One on calories:

Diet tends to depend on where I live: I moved a lot over the years, so I had to adjust to local foods to a certain extent (but less than what one may expect).

Nevertheless, I knew some general rules from studying basic nutrition when I was in the Navy (!), so I made a life plan to stick to them. Generally speaking:

1. Fresh food (duh, obviously). Processed stuff every once in a while/in very small portions is fine;

2. Devise a very ample choice of possible foods for breakfast/lunch/dinner/tea/whatever time you eat. Be sure that, whatever combination you choose, "it adds up": macronutrients and calories are more or less right;

3. Mix & enjoy. Once you know that you cannot overdo it because any combo is the right combo, it's problem solved, in general, and you'll handle feasts/junk food/etc. without even worrying.

4. Oh, train, of course.

On 1, I eat miso & soy sauce, some cola and the occasional sauce at restaurants. Croissants and the like, they're from a bakery: fatty food, but nothing industrial.

On 2 & 3, I can happily include any type of dinner outside, and I am generally fine. 4...well, you know the deal :wink:

I generally lose weight during the week even if I eat *a lot*, and put it back over the week-end. The 4-5 kgs I should have put during the break are almost gone: I just cut on portions a bit, and problem solved.

An healthy diet without abuse of carbs (e.g., tons of pasta, rice) makes putting up weight next to impossible: imagine getting 3000 calories worth of healthy salads with vegetable proteins, every day... :wink:
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

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I need to cook more. I'll cook Lentils... and then pour one of those "curry packages" over it. I don't think they're particularly awful when compared w/ most other horse shit in America... just not amazing. I don't have tons of time though either. Maybe there should be a shmeetup revolved around this thread.
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MJR
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

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Randorama wrote: An healthy diet without abuse of carbs (e.g., tons of pasta, rice) makes putting up weight next to impossible: imagine getting 3000 calories worth of healthy salads with vegetable proteins, every day... :wink:
This is why I use supplemets. After calculating everything through my calorie intake and food I eat, I deduced that I just can't eat enough without them. I need 3000-3600kcal daily (and 160-200 grams of protein) which is an overkill for me if eaten through normal food. Or of course I could, but I don't want to. I still prefer eating chicken salad for dinner and porridge for breakfast, so I just have supply rest with protein shakes and vitamin etc pills. So far supplements with healthy and varied diet have given me very good results. I don't argue against that eating food should be your first choice. But I have found that there are limits on how much I can cook and carry home and gulp down :)
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Stevens
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

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Randorama wrote:
An healthy diet without abuse of carbs (e.g., tons of pasta, rice) makes putting up weight next to impossible: imagine getting 3000 calories worth of healthy salads with vegetable proteins, every day... :wink:
Pretty much this. You would have to spend six hours eating, if you could even physically eat that many vegetables.
GaijinPunch wrote:I need to cook more. I'll cook Lentils... and then pour one of those "curry packages" over it. I don't think they're particularly awful when compared w/ most other horse shit in America... just not amazing. I don't have tons of time though either. Maybe there should be a shmeetup revolved around this thread.
Not sure if you mentioned it earlier, have you ever considered cooking most of your food on one day and then eating it during the week?

Be down for a meet. Sucks we're all so damn far from each other.
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Randorama
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Randorama »

MJR: agreed on supplements. "Natural" is good as long as it does not give you nausea, and supplements can be quite healthy if you select carefully. I take fat supplements because I simply cannot eat enough olive oil et similia, during the day (!).

Steve: I do nibble all the time, which is something I don't mind doing when working (you know, stress relief actions: I also drink tea in this manner). Dinner is usually a long nibbling session, in fact.

I know that the problem is *far bigger* for professional sportsmen such as swimmers, cyclists, rugby players...i.e. people who consume 9k, 10k calories per day, when training.

When I was a grad student and Teaching Assistant in Australia, I had Ian Thorpe (the olympic swimmer) in one of my classes. He told me that his solution was to ingurgitate vast quantities of greasy pizza (...easy to find, in Australia).

Cyclists spend whole days on the saddle eating ultra-proteic, ultra-caloric gelatin creams, these days, otherwise they would need to eat *kilos* of pasta/rice while being nauseous from training.
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by DDDP »

Groovin tunes today. Lots of shadowboxing and bagwork, with ring holds in between as cooldown isometrics. Also some mean abwork. This is my favorite sort of music for boxing drills.

GaijinPunch this one is definitely more up your alley my man

https://youtu.be/DqaWCV18hiQ

Stevens wrote: On your first point - More people need to shout that from the roof tops. Connective tissue takes forever to catch up to muscles in terms of growth and repair. Progress carefully people! This is one of the biggest reasons that even if 2 or 3 reps of something harder seems like a good idea you're better off regressing to a previous level you can do 5+ reps of. Far less orthopedic stress and far less chance of injury. As I like to say - you actually get stronger faster. Also at our collective ages it takes far longer to heal.
I think a lot more people are realizing this! Thankfully the research I've seen so far indicates that connective tissue can be built up and repaired, it just has to be done patiently with proper nutrition and stretching. The tissue growth in tendons and joints is stimulated mostly by stretching and "squeezing", NOT by heavy-weight hypertrophy. So the type of conditioning aimed at MAX muscle hypertrophy is mutually-exclusive to MAX tendon growth, and vice versa. You can get growth in BOTH at the same time, just not MAX.
What happens to a lot of bodybuilders is they get caught in a cycle of keeping MUH GAINZ while their collagenous tissue is still healing/strengthening, so they never fully let them heal and strengthen, leading to all sorts of long-term problems. Lots of practical wisdom in the mindset of a physical therapists seeking to shore up weaknesses / injuries / deficiencies with the intention of improving their MAX reps/weights.

Stevens wrote: What are bus stop squats? Never heard of them and couldn't find anything on the Google.
You've probably already heard of them. Slav squats. Steven Low who wrote the book Overcoming Gravity calls them "asian squats". I've also heard them called "resting squats". Flatfooted, squatting all the way down until you're resting. Minimum tension in legs and hips. Bouncy, almost.

The intention is to hold this position for 1 minute or more, then work up to 5 minutes. Also you can stretch the hips or twist/reach up to stretch the back and shoulders. Builds up ankle strength/stability, stretches the legs, loosens the back, loosens the hips. Pretty sure it is also included as one of those "ancient primal positions" if you follow animal movement / Ido Portal sort of disciplines.
Stevens wrote: As to your last few points:

Setting goals is a great thing. Saying I'm going to do it by a certain day/time is not, at least with intermediate/advanced stuff. Our bodies will always get stronger, but they do it at their own pace. The further you go with this stuff the longer it takes to build strength.

I don't count calories either. If you're diet is basically on point - you're eating real, good food you're fine. I weigh myself like once a month or when I move to a harder progression of something because it isn't uncommon for me to put on a pound or two when that happens.
Some people really benefit from that external structure / external motivation. If I had an in-person friend or coach that did the tracking and metrics for me I would probably benefit, and would probably go along with it. But to do that myself is too much of a timesink and thoughtsink when I have other stuff in my life to spend that organization-time on. Hey, now I totally get why people like going to gyms and getting coaches! :lol: But really, I enjoy my lonely routines cut off from the rest of the world too much. Whatever works!
GaijinPunch wrote:I need to cook more. I'll cook Lentils... and then pour one of those "curry packages" over it. I don't think they're particularly awful when compared w/ most other horse shit in America... just not amazing. I don't have tons of time though either. Maybe there should be a shmeetup revolved around this thread.
I'd cook heaps of food if there was a meetup! Personally I think I eat more delicious food now than ever before. Making my own food gave me the avenue to be healthier but also to learn basic technique and cook it in a tasty way. Now I gorge on delicious food while still getting fitter.
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Stevens »

DDDP wrote: I think a lot more people are realizing this! Thankfully the research I've seen so far indicates that connective tissue can be built up and repaired, it just has to be done patiently with proper nutrition and stretching. The tissue growth in tendons and joints is stimulated mostly by stretching and "squeezing", NOT by heavy-weight hypertrophy. So the type of conditioning aimed at MAX muscle hypertrophy is mutually-exclusive to MAX tendon growth, and vice versa. You can get growth in BOTH at the same time, just not MAX.

What happens to a lot of bodybuilders is they get caught in a cycle of keeping MUH GAINZ while their collagenous tissue is still healing/strengthening, so they never fully let them heal and strengthen, leading to all sorts of long-term problems. Lots of practical wisdom in the mindset of a physical therapists seeking to shore up weaknesses / injuries / deficiencies with the intention of improving their MAX reps/weights.

You've probably already heard of them. Slav squats. Steven Low who wrote the book Overcoming Gravity calls them "asian squats". I've also heard them called "resting squats". Flatfooted, squatting all the way down until you're resting. Minimum tension in legs and hips. Bouncy, almost.

The intention is to hold this position for 1 minute or more, then work up to 5 minutes. Also you can stretch the hips or twist/reach up to stretch the back and shoulders. Builds up ankle strength/stability, stretches the legs, loosens the back, loosens the hips. Pretty sure it is also included as one of those "ancient primal positions" if you follow animal movement / Ido Portal sort of disciplines.

Some people really benefit from that external structure / external motivation. If I had an in-person friend or coach that did the tracking and metrics for me I would probably benefit, and would probably go along with it. But to do that myself is too much of a timesink and thoughtsink when I have other stuff in my life to spend that organization-time on. Hey, now I totally get why people like going to gyms and getting coaches! :lol: But really, I enjoy my lonely routines cut off from the rest of the world too much. Whatever works!
Once you said Asian Squats I knew exactly what you were talking about. Our natural resting position. I can get down into one no problem. Spending significant time in one is another story. Just did 30 seconds in one, could have done 45 most likely but could start to feel it for sure.

Rotator cuff issues for body builders was along the lines that I was thinking. Not cause the RC is a tendon (I mean it has them), but cause like tendons they tend to get strong much slower compared to say ma pecz.

Re - Lonely routine. I hear you 100%. In my school building it is well known that I get in at 7 AM to workout. And if you're not a PE person or the guy I directly work with you better not come around until at least 8: )

Re - Push Ups. So today I skipped archers in favor of sliding 1 arm since I'm home for the day and felt like experimenting. I can say with certainty that sliding 1 arm are not my way forward. Discomfort in my right wrist when it is the sliding arm can't be ignored. Next week I'll start Incline Archer Push Ups as I feel I am at the point where I can move on the something harder.

Going to start with my feet 6 inches off the floor and build from there.
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Randorama »

"Asian squat" indeed. A common sight in China is someone squatting, smoking a fag and checking the phone during a break. An unwritten rule is that women with a skirt shouldn't be peeped at, when they squat :wink:

Connective tissue: my 2 cents is that gymnasts must work a lot on increasing their flexibility and connective issues, because the sport forces them to follow movement that require high dexterity AND strength.

I am really skeptical about people obsessing over "size", if they do not play contact sports like rugby, NFL, hockey (i.e. in which being big means being harder to get tackled/charged).

Besides, proper calisthenics/gymnastics will still make your body fairly big, and tense to ridiculous levels, though not "huge"...I'd add a penis joke here, but I digress.

DDDP, motivation: in Chinese culture, collective training sessions are an ancient method for those who struggle to train alone (...I currently work in China). They work wonders to start training (peer pressure, but also support when motivation wavers), even if for people like us they are probably a hassle.

I may have some interesting news to share on this, soon.

Cooking: yes, cooking your own food gives you so much control on diet that it should be mandatory. As an Italian, I do advocate a "slow food" philosophy for anyone (and making time for cooking).

I admit that the bulk of cooking comes from my wife, but I do cut all veggies, meat, etc. into ready-to-use portions, wash dishes, cook on week-ends, etc. A rice cooker is also a fantastic kitchen tool to have at home.

Steve: what kind of discomfort? I wonder if I should also be mindful about wrists problems.
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

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Stevens wrote:[
Not sure if you mentioned it earlier, have you ever considered cooking most of your food on one day and then eating it during the week?

Be down for a meet. Sucks we're all so damn far from each other.
I'm overdue for an NY trip by like 2-3 years. I have a lot of people there. I'm about to fly over it as well... going to see some friends over yonder that I've not seen in far too long. It took me 18 months but I realized the pandemic took a bigger emotional toll on me than I thought. Would love to see my son but that's a bit of a shit show right now... Spring, if I'm lucky. Why do Japanese have to make everything so fucking difficult (govt. and individuals)?

As for my food, I have definitely considered doing that. It's just a time thing right now, and I'm not eating shit. It's a solid "decent". I'll slowly learn a few things and get up there.
GaijinPunch this one is definitely more up your alley my man

https://youtu.be/DqaWCV18hiQ
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Stevens »

Randorama wrote: Steve: what kind of discomfort? I wonder if I should also be mindful about wrists problems.
Palm up it would be just south of your index and thumb. Probably in the tendons? I've only ever noticed it sliding my arm out, it doesn't happen during archers.

A nice little warning I suppose. Ill listen to what it's saying and find another way there. Love this stuff.
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by DDDP »

Randorama wrote: Connective tissue: my 2 cents is that gymnasts must work a lot on increasing their flexibility and connective issues, because the sport forces them to follow movement that require high dexterity AND strength.
This is generally true of all athletics, which is why I think keeping 1-2 "sports" in one's life is important, even if only as a "diagnostic tool" to flush out impingements, tears, soreness, etc from heavier work in the weekly routine. All fitness boils down to "forcing your body to follow movement", which signals the short-term and long-term growth factors that result in tissue development. It's just a game of what sort of "forcing" you want to do, and how far your body can go without injury. The body will always respond. Folks forget that response is sometimes *snap* though. :lol:
Randorama wrote: I am really skeptical about people obsessing over "size", if they do not play contact sports like rugby, NFL, hockey (i.e. in which being big means being harder to get tackled/charged).
Size is important cause you gotta make sure the oxandrin and the third scoop of preworkout is kicking in properly. Getting a pump on and checking for ruptured muscle heads is the standard method to verify a SIZE LEVEL-UP. If the bar don't bend you ain't my friend.

Re: China workouts. I'm already deep into kettlebell'ing but in another time and place I'd be doing those group sessions of stone-lock throws + swings I've seen in some video demos!! seems like an efficient way to stay in shape.

https://youtu.be/hCCg5XXKayQ
Stevens wrote:Rotator cuff issues for body builders was along the lines that I was thinking. Not cause the RC is a tendon (I mean it has them), but cause like tendons they tend to get strong much slower compared to say ma pecz.
^^ One of the loudest reasons I paired gym rings w kettlebells when I started my home gym last March.

My dad suffered/suffers from rc limitations and pain as well as the classic "pulled forward" posture earned by overdeveloping chest muscles from h.s. football. Common issue for guys. Rings basically "fix" this as they can be used to build up all supporting muscles in shoulder without needing to stimulate via targeted hypertrophy, which can inflame and injure in muscle groups that surround joints. I especially think the scapular development and the serratus development from rings is invaluable. These areas are annoying to drill with the other tools I have on hand. Rings work so effective on shoulders that I've (slowly) taken my dad through some of the same isometrics and holds on the rings. Lo, he's repairing decades-old impingements and limitations that he never thought he'd fix now that he's "past his prime".

@GaijinPunch here's another for you then! (same artist, different mix) Hope it gets you poppin on your feet. Rhythm is the soul of efficient fitness imo, even if the beat is in your head. And for the sake of completeness, I want you to imagine a 6ft, 200lb man beating the tar out of a heavybag to this tune so hard that the garage trusses shake :lol: :lol:

https://youtu.be/_67PVPv1oUk
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

I met a very impressively built woman yesterday who told me she does CrossFit. Little did I know what she meant, but I could tell she'd been doing it right. It has to be said, rarely do I see someone obviously into such athletics, in person, who leaves impression this lasting.
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by bkk »

MJR wrote:The trick is to keep them always slightly bent, at least that's what the training instructor told me and I chose to believe him.
Congrats on getting into a routine! That is the most important thing.

Based on your post I think your program and trainer are terrible, and strongly urge you to read and understand Starting Strength (and, ideally, do the program described in it).
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Randorama »

Steve: I will wait a bit before training for sliding archers. It seems that everything is going fine with declines and archers, so I am not in a hurry (the 15+ reps mark is the current target).

Btw: do you think that one-hand inclines may be another route to the one-hand push-ups?

DDDP: Sorry, I am not sure that I get the lingo regarding size :wink:

...obsessing over size, body-builder style, is something I still do not understand. Please keep in mind that I did practice sports in which non-trivial muscle size is a natural consequence of the necessary training involved in the sport (rugby, scrum-half position; rowing, 4 without). Training just to become bigger...I cannot see practical applications, but please feel free to correct me.

Btw, kettlebells are a Russian invention (or so Pavel Tsatsouline says, and it's better not to question The Strong Man from Russia!). But collective training sessions are very common, especially for seniors.

More on this in a later post, when I have some time.
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Stevens »

Haha. In my last post I said Incline Archers, meant decline.

One Arm Inclines and work your way down on like a set of stairs? Sure.
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

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bkk wrote:
MJR wrote:The trick is to keep them always slightly bent, at least that's what the training instructor told me and I chose to believe him.
Congrats on getting into a routine! That is the most important thing.

Based on your post I think your program and trainer are terrible, and strongly urge you to read and understand Starting Strength (and, ideally, do the program described in it).
Thank you. I did actually an error on my post, it was not the leg extension where I was instructed to not extend my leg fully to avoid injury, it was the leg press. Sorry about that, this is so new to me that I can't remember the names properly.

As for your comments about my trainer and book - I knew that someone would come up and say that my trainer and program is terrible and I should read a book instead. I don't know enough about the subject to start an online argument about whether you would be right or wrong. But I know enough to see that training is similar to nutrition and health advice - there are lot of very strong differing opinions online about it, and some people are very fervent advocates about certain books. Quick googling shows that this book is no exception (As it shows that this book has also it's detractors). To really know whether some diet advocated online - or training program advocated online would be better than what health officials and gym instructors recommend, I would have to be an expert and study hell of a lot. I don't have that luxury.

So, I simply have to take a choice: Do I want to believe my gym instructor or do I want to read some american book that was written by someone whom I don't know and recommended by someone I dont know as a person. That depends on what one would think about american self-help books. I have never been very trusting about any self help book written in US - sorry. So, I choose to rather believe my gym instructor. I don't believe that it is significantly worse option. If I am wrong, and you are right, then I will probably not develop much progress, and I will probably sustain an injury later down the road. If this happens, I let you know, admit you are right and then I will start looking for alternate sources of information, including the book you recommended. But so far, I believe that the risk would be equal - if not greater - if I follow the advice from some book recommended in the internet.

I do not mean this (or anything I said above) as dismissal to you or your advice (although I am little bit dismissive about US self help books.. I admit that). It simply proves what I said that this is a subject where lot of people have their own strong opinions.
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Randorama »

MJR wrote: [...]I do not mean this (or anything I said above) as dismissal to you or your advice (although I am little bit dismissive about US self help books.. I admit that). It simply proves what I said that this is a subject where lot of people have their own strong opinions.
I believe that I agree with some of your points, but I decided to butt in and add my 2 cents.

I generally ask for explanations when people criticise some of my actions or ideas and I offer explanations when I criticise someone's actions or ideas (e.g., "bkk, sorry but: terrible. Why?" and so on).

I don't have an opinion on your program, but I would suggest...everyone to read as much as possible on general health, training, and so on, of course trying to be selective about your readings.

Personally I always aim for works that are well-researched and written in a sober style (...not the self-help style, I guess? I don't know it, to be frank).

No book is perfect, so I don't worry if authors included chapters that I know to be bollocks - I will forget about them, anyway, and probably find something better researched on the topic of those chapters.

I would also add this...

There is no special need to "believe" authorities: an expert should in theory be able to give an understandable explanation of whatever advice they offer to customers who seek their advice, and the outcomes of the advice.

If the explanation is sound and has immediate consequences (e.g., "do this exercise like this and you will increase your strength in your legs" or "eat this because it will increase your deficitary vitamins levels"), then there will be a practical proof of the validity of the explanation.

Belief, as far as I am concerned, is about trusting something/someone because of one's feeling about the person/idea and their validity (I don't want link to a definition of the word, sorry - I won't debate this point).

Training requires a certain amount of reasoning and specific knowledge on how to perform skills correctly (and why they matter), because the human body is a complex system and works in a certain way.

Knowledge of these mechanisms is important because it allows us to monitor, correct and improve our goals and results, and to avoid mistakes on which we can apply immediate corrections (if it hurts, you know it first).

So, I'd prefer to have sound knowledge of the principles behind a training schedule or diet, rather than beliefs about the "authority" providing me schedules and plans.

This also because "authority", in this case, comes from having knowledge that can be shared, explained in detail and commented upon.

Your coach will probably be happy if you ask why you're doing certain exercises and what benefits they will give you. Maybe he is also fine with blind faith in his knowledge, but why not ask?

If your coach cannot explain you, then you should question how he/she obtained the authority and expertise to coach in the first place. Teaching/coaching/guiding people cannot revolve around blind orders.

Reading some science behind the exercises, nutrition, etc. should also make you understand the explanations easily, and make you less passive towards a domain of knowledge that tends to be underrated: well-being.

I do not think that you deed to become "an expert" within any short amount of time - I am still not an expert at 42, but since I was a kid I would always ask my coaches "why" questions on anything. It adds up over time.

Mens Sana in Corpore Sano - train hard, read widely and critically, find the luxury time to know yourself more, and find a balance about trusting the authorities and helping yourself.

The 2 cents from someone you don't know from the internet, of course (I can give references and some more background about myself, though...).
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by MJR »

Randorama wrote:
The 2 cents from someone you don't know from the internet, of course (I can give references and some more background about myself, though...).
Thanks. Your stuff is quite agreeable, on general level; it is certainly good to get knowledge as much as you can and quite as varied topics as you can. You suggestion of asking coach questions is also very good one. I choose to believe him as "authority", for now, because at this point training without any coaching = training blind, or training blind on some book is not an option. When your options are limited you need to make the most informed and likely choice available. What you choose to believe is pretty much dependent on multiple things; it can't be just boiled on few certain points, you have to use common sense. My instructor has picked my program on my age, height, weight, current shape, strength and so on, so it is common sense to me to go with his suggestion for now, rather than just apply someone else's program or try to figure out something based on a book.

I know that at some certain point, I need to read more on the subject, if I need to make progress, but it depends on multiple factors; how satisfied am I with my progress, and where I wish to aim, what kind of body composition I wish to aim. I am not looking to compete on olympics level, and I do not wish to turn myself into a mountain. So it is reasonable to believe that my current program is good enough, because I am very satisfied with results so far.

But things can change, I might wish for more progress and better results later, and I might have to start study the thing more if I get really crazy about it. Then I should get myself to read every book on the subject I can. Only one thing I know for sure: I will never, ever touch steroids, hormones, or similar kind of crap :) (not that any of you had suggested it, I just felt the need to say it)
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by bkk »

MJR wrote:If I am wrong, and you are right, then I will probably not develop much progress, and I will probably sustain an injury later down the road. If this happens, I let you know, admit you are right and then I will start looking for alternate sources of information, including the book you recommended. But so far, I believe that the risk would be equal - if not greater - if I follow the advice from some book recommended in the internet.
I imagine this would have been my exact response if I were in your position. The reason I recommended that book specifically is that it provides a solid, biomechanically grounded reason for every decision it makes. You'll also note that I primarily suggested you read and understand it, which would not prevent you from carrying on with your current program (which, again, regularly doing a program is more important than anything else).
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by Randorama »

Steve: thanks. Just to day-dream a bit: Once I can be sure that I can be safe with archers, would you propose to try archers & decline positions? It sounds intriguing. I will try one-arm inclines tomorrow, as I feel curious about them.

...Pistol squats: I tried the basic pistol squat movement on Friday, and I think that I need a reference support to keep my balance steady.

I can go quite low (30 cmts/one foot from the ground?), but even stretching my arm and "feeling out" a pole while lowering my body (i.e. fingers touch the pole, I get a sense of the right balance position) are a bless. Is this a good starting option to develop more balance?

MJR: Just to be clear; my 2 cents are that your coach can explain you his decisions in detail, and can eventually correct these decisions if some issues arise along the way (e.g., an exercise suddenly gives you trouble/injuries).

As an educator, I never stop at answering questions and always give further readings to students who wish to read. Coaches are indeed educators, so they may be very happy to share the sources of their knowledge.

...Coaches can also write books and these books can explain training techniques, goals, results, etc. in thorough detail (bkk's point is spot-on: thanks, bkk!).

When reading books, you can ask yourself if the coaches/authors are spot-on or they are going on wild tangents. Danny Kavadlo's books, for instance, seem to always contain some personal tangents on matters other than training, but his "dissections" of exercises tend to be very thorough.

Nobody's perfect, and especially not me, but still...I'd suggest to get informed from various sources, to take it slow and steady, and to listen to your body (even small pains are revealing).

Physical exercise is a subtle intellectual pursuit, after all :wink:
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Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread

Post by MJR »

Thanks all for your informative and friendly responses, they are all appreciated (despite my caution). Part of the reason why I've been training carefully and not too hard is also because I try to make sure don't get injured - I've done that couple of times in the past and I don't wish to repeat it. I'm going slowly, getting new information slowly (as my time permits me), and sticking to routine. (cardio every second day, weights every second, rest 1-2 days a week).
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