The Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Ruldra
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Ruldra »

Damocles wrote:
stryc9 wrote:Well, I don't think I've had my ass handed to me so badly by a 16 bit shooter in a long time :shock:

Yes, that's right, I've been playing Undead Line.
Check out my badly-written strategy guide in my sig for specific tips.

tl:dr

Whore out the spread daggers like she owes you money. Switch out weapons for particular bosses if you feel like it.
Any tips on how to beat Dracula at the final stage? Never got past him.

If you use daggers you'll get swarmed by his drones and the level will rape you if you try to bring another weapon to that fight.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Damocles »

Dracula is actually fairly easy, if done correctly. As soon as he appears you should be point-blanking him while firing off at least one Option (err...rotating mace...thing). Actually, check that. You should be nearly point-blanking him. Keep slightly offset so that one stream (to your right) misses the boss entirely. That streams should help keep most of the homing Options at bay. Your Option should make care of the rest. Your option will probably run out, but the boss will soon follow. Also, keep in mind that the firing animation of the boss will hit you if you are too close.

The other option is to focus on the homing shots and only pepper the boss when possible. This takes much longer and you are much more likely to get swarmed.

This is with the spread shot.


I really need to go back and update the S/T. There is sooo much more that could be elaborated on.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

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Damocles wrote:Check out my badly-written strategy guide in my sig for specific tips.
I was hoping you'd drop by. I will check out your guide when I have time later today, thanks :)
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BIL »

Alisia Dragoon + Elemental Master get!

AD only recently clicked with me, but I had to jump on it immediately when it did. As a sidescrolling action lover, the slightly limited player movement bugged me at first, making me wish Alisia could slide and/or double jump to deal with the fast, targeted projectiles this game favours. Normal difficulty thus felt a bit Euroshmuppish, seemingly balancing all the bullets by a massive lifebar. Hard blew that notion away, though, forcing me to learn how to play. Both Alisia and her familiars will be quickly torn to pieces if you're letting them get hit, and enemy presence is relentless. It's actually a very safe-spot oriented game, which makes sense given the multi-homing weapon. Finding a safe(ish) spot and letting rip while bullets whizz over your crouch and under your jumps is quite satisfying, especially given how many enemies you'll be mowing through in the process. Interesting balance of vulnerability and horde-frying power.

The familiars likewise are a lot more involving on Hard. I used the fullscreen-bombing bird virtually the whole way through Normal, but it's too slow to handle everything on Hard. The flamey thing's shielding+melee damage and the lizard's targeted boomerangs are both invaluable in tight situations. I assume the dragon is for brute force, but I've preferred to get up close and cockslap the flamey into hard targets so far. Getting near the end of Hard, very tough and rewarding sidescroller with quality art and music.

Always liked EM, but found it too easy even on Mania to justify owning. I realised recently that even if I can guarantee a clear 100% of the time, something that'll usually knock a shooter without compelling scoring out of must-own territory for me, it's still a frantic and unique clear. Good level designs that make you run all over the place rapidly switching weapons and firing in both directions, with a great assortment of terrain types (water, ice, lava hazards, etc...). Also, I'm a Gun.Smoke fan. Hard for me to pass up a well-made "walking man" shooter, and the dual-way firing, quick player movement and obstacle navigation all feel great.

I half-wish the collision handling was a bit tighter - bullets and enemies pass right through Raden without stopping, and with no impact, just a visible hitspark and a very brief invincibility window. Ultimately though, this actually makes things more hectic since you can easily get taken down by the aggressively crowding enemies, and blundering through bullet patterns will likewise wither your HP. The hit detection itself is tight as well, with an easily-judged hitbox (don't get hit, basically - no Cave-style bullet/player sprite overlap patterns here).

Art and soundtrack are spectacular as well, sealing the deal. Toshiharu Yamanishi's soundtrack is one of those God Tier MD OSTs that just obliterates the competition. Tecno Soft, like Konami and Treasure, are one of those third-parties you can feel just owning the MD hardware. Shame they over-egged TFIV a bit. Will probably get that too at some point.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Bloodreign »

AD clicked with me a day after I saw it in a game shop. It sat subconsciously in my mind so I fired up a ROM of it out of the blue. I played it a bit and really started liking it, so the next day I went back and got the cart I saw. Neat little action platformer that is seriously underrated.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BrianC »

I'm loving Alisia Dragoon too. I was suprised that Gainax was involved with it.
BIL wrote:Might as well ask this here too - does anyone know if Tengen's Japanese Mega Drive cartridges are known for shoddy manufacturing quality? As in sudden deaths / malfunctions, etc. The stories of Grind Stormer (Genesis) carts either dying or turning up DOA are well-known - just wondering if it's isolated to that game, or its region.
According to some posts on sega-16, it sounds like there have been similar problems with other US Tengen carts like Dragon's Fury. I had a Gauntlet IV malfunction on one Genesis, but it worked on another one. I got another Gauntlet IV cart and it works fine. It's not a manufacturing defect, but I found out the Dragon's Fury has a bug that doesn't seem to be in Devil Crash MD. In Dragon's Fury, the ball can sometimes go through the left gate blocking the outlane on the lower playfield while it's up.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by louisg »

BrianC wrote:I'm loving Alisia Dragoon too. I was suprised that Gainax was involved with it.
BIL wrote:Might as well ask this here too - does anyone know if Tengen's Japanese Mega Drive cartridges are known for shoddy manufacturing quality? As in sudden deaths / malfunctions, etc. The stories of Grind Stormer (Genesis) carts either dying or turning up DOA are well-known - just wondering if it's isolated to that game, or its region.
According to some posts on sega-16, it sounds like there have been similar problems with other US Tengen carts like Dragon's Fury. I had a Gauntlet IV malfunction on one Genesis, but it worked on another one. I got another Gauntlet IV cart and it works fine. It's not a manufacturing defect, but I found out the Dragon's Fury has a bug that doesn't seem to be in Devil Crash MD. In Dragon's Fury, the ball can sometimes go through the left gate blocking the outlane on the lower playfield while it's up.
You mean while the outlane is latched shut? That bug got me so many times. Good so know it's not in Devil Crash MD! Though Devil Crash MD seems more expensive than the PCE one. Hrm.

I may have to give Alicia Dragoon another shot. It didn't click with me back when I played it, but I always *want* to like it because of the art style, and the fact that it's got that Thexder weapon scheme.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BIL »

BrianC wrote:According to some posts on sega-16, it sounds like there have been similar problems with other US Tengen carts like Dragon's Fury. I had a Gauntlet IV malfunction on one Genesis, but it worked on another one. I got another Gauntlet IV cart and it works fine. It's not a manufacturing defect, but I found out the Dragon's Fury has a bug that doesn't seem to be in Devil Crash MD. In Dragon's Fury, the ball can sometimes go through the left gate blocking the outlane on the lower playfield while it's up.
Thanks - I'm sure I'd heard something about a flakey Gauntlet IV cart before, come to think of it. Probably what made me wonder about Tengen carts (besides G.S.) initially.

Never heard anything about the Japanese carts, so hopefully they're not affected. Pretty sure if Slap Fight and Snow Bros carts were regularly dying word would get out, at those prices.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BrianC »

louisg wrote: You mean while the outlane is latched shut? That bug got me so many times. Good so know it's not in Devil Crash MD! Though Devil Crash MD seems more expensive than the PCE one. Hrm.
I don't think the bug is on PCE either, just Dragon's Fury. Devil Crash MD isn't super expensive, but only a few are on ebay, with none of them from some of the lower priced sellers. One of them is priced especially high.

Edit: Looks like the bootleg one is no longer up. Yay!
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BIL »

louisg wrote:I may have to give Alicia Dragoon another shot. It didn't click with me back when I played it, but I always *want* to like it because of the art style, and the fact that it's got that Thexder weapon scheme.
What stopped me from enjoying AD fully was playing it like Strider 2... ie diving headlong into stages all guns blazing. This'll inevitably get you shot up and swarmed by popcorn, annoying on Normal and fatal on Hard. Despite the flexible jumps and powerful homing weapon, AD actually plays more like Castlevania IV with a rapid-firing, full-screen, multi-tailed whip. Alisia is simply not agile enough to dodge much, so moving along methodically taking out enemies with lightning while maintaining safe positioning is the way to go. The opening of stage 3 (airship) is a perfect example. Lots of turrets firing fast shots, each taking several seconds of uninterrupted fire to destroy. Try to improv-dodge one bullet and another will nail you on the next step. Instead, stay in their sizeable blind spots and let the lightning do its thing while bullets fly uselessly past. Once you get the level designs down you can really mow through unscathed, run-and-gun style, but it's definitely a methodical sidescroller more than an improv-friendly one.

Since I love both kinds, but abhor ones that demand neither, I was pleasantly surprised by Hard. Normal can give the impression you're just meant to soak up damage, but you won't make it far past the very first area on Hard if your counter-offensive play isn't good.

Plays quite similarly to Metal Black, actually. Slow-ish character that would be overrun by swarming enemies if not for a massive attack range evening the score. edit: Alisia's full-power blast actually resembles the Black Fly's lightning bomb too, haha.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by handsome_rakshas »

Can anyone tell me what a good price to sell Undeadline would be? The only thing is that the copy I have is completely mint. I'm talking "I'm a Japanese boy in 1989 and just peeled the plastic off" mint. It dosen't even look like them manual has been flipped through. Any ideas, thanks!
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by stryc9 »

handsome_rakshas wrote:Can anyone tell me what a good price to sell Undeadline would be? The only thing is that the copy I have is completely mint. I'm talking "I'm a Japanese boy in 1989 and just peeled the plastic off" mint. It dosen't even look like them manual has been flipped through. Any ideas, thanks!
I got a copy in good condition for $100 a few weeks ago, not sure if that's good or not but it doesn't seem to be a very common game.

On a similar note, the Japanese Keio Flying Squadron I've seen the guy was asking $250, but I managed to snag one for $40 without the spine card (I don't care about spine cards).
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

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Bumping this quality thread with a Crosspost Plus Alpha from the "shumps ticker" thread. Picked up some MD shooters I'd been after for a while, finally got good condition + complete copies.

Gley Lancer Digging what feels like an Image Fight* influence in the powerups, option controls and certain enemies, along with its sense of an archetypal memoriser given a degree of console flexibility via generous firepower and speed control. Excellent pacing provided you play on Hard from the get-go, and a respectable challenge too. "Huge battleship" level is more Thunder Force III tedious than R-Type II menacing, a shame, but the stage's boss rocks with his cluster grenade attack - like Gradius Gaiden's Neo Bigcore ("Formidable Guardians" boss) half a decade earlier. Doesn't hurt that this game looks and sounds splendid and more importantly controls like a dream.

Regarding the Thunder Force III comparisons earlier in this thread: I really don't see it. TFIII lets you switch weapons freely, while GL forces you to decide the best for each area. TFIII's defining mechanic is its multi-weapon system, GL uses Image Fight-style gunpods. TFIII has instant respawns suited to its fast-moving stages full of sudden deaths, while GL has checkpoints and less sudden but tougher to recover deaths that demand you no-miss each segment. As a fan of both developers, GL plays a lot more like an Irem shooter than a Tecno Soft one in my book. Glad to have both in my game library, regardless.

*I'd cite R-Type Leo, but with it and GL both released in 1992, it's hard to say how much inspiration Masaya took from it if any.

Gynoug Some of the more intense bullet patterns I've come across in a 16-bit original; almost brings to mind Sengoku Ace. Bump the difficulty up one so mini+main bosses can stick around long enough to chuck a few of these out. Interesting variation on the Gradius piggybank - collecting the same subweapon multiple times consecutively before activation = bigger guns. Loud and proud shoutout to "Maximum Speed" stages as well. Unfortunately there's a tendency to pad out levels with repeating waves which Masaya had clearly learned to avoid by Gley Lancer, but it's not a game killer. Used to hate the stubby, tiny sprites (where's my Michael Bolton / Fabio angel barbarian stud?!) but they facilitate those furious patterns and allow tons of enemies onscreen with zero slowdown.

After an aesthetically ho-hum first four stages the roiling, pulsating "bloodstream" stage is a total stunner. Instantly one of my favourite organic levels in the genre. No news that the bosses are consistent knockouts as are most of the minibosses. Manual is friggin' rad. Sad this didn't get a Saturn sequel like Assault Suit Leynos, refinement of this gameplay and that aesthetic would've been a welcome horror shooting venture.

Koutetsu Teikoku / Steel Empire Only hori I've played whose action gives me that Gun Frontier / Battle Garegga feeling of taking on monster machines who retaliate with salvos of bullets, rockets and grenades loosed from bristling turrets and cannons, as opposed to say a torrent of wine gums disgorged from beneath a loli's skirt. I like bullets and missiles whizzing past my ship. Lifebar is probably a blaring warning siren to some, but it actually works out well; the devs commendably used the leeway to design levels and bosses that'd approach typical coinop difficulty, were this a one-hit affair. Patterns are well-designed and the game is entirely no-missable on max difficulty, no lame spam here.

Strip out the neat Laputa-derived aesthetic and you'd have a competent hori not really worth its price tag. It's more one to get for the excellent presentation knowing the underlying game is sound. The naval battle stage is a w e s o m e. Rayforce-worthy sense of being a tiny craft entering a vast warzone when you pass your own smashed fleet in pursuit of the secret weapon that sank it.
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Ended up getting BK1 largely on your post, thanks for the excellent writeup. :smile: I already had the latter two and figured the first wouldn't hold my interest, but it does indeed have a faster, stripped-down feel that makes it more than worth having. I particularly like how there's no vertical scrolling or area transitions, just a constant procession of beltscrolled ass-whooping. The slightly choppy feeling takes getting used to, but it's entirely consistent and easily adjusted for. Utterly killer soundtrack as well. Shame Adam got the boot for Max and Sammy in the sequel. I like playing as Max but both of their character designs suck and have dated horribly. Badass Black Guy in PVC trousers and biker boots over CAPTAIN 90S JR. and spandex puro beefman any day.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Rob »

BIL wrote:but it does indeed have a faster, stripped-down feel
You've gotta try Streets of Rage 3 (the NA release).
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BIL »

Good to see you posting again! I've played SOR3, but what I meant by "stripped down" was more the lack of any inputs beyond basic movement and attack/jump (disregarding bomb). The first is like going back to the original Mega Man after playing lots of the X/Zero games, primitive but not unpleasingly so.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Friendly »

The return of the legendary Rob! (7000th post, no less)
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by RGC »

Nice write-ups, BIL. You've inspired me to revisit Gleylancer, although it may have to be through filthy emu for now (pah!), since prices seem to be ever inflating on the cart (>£120, why is that?).

Welcome back, Rob.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BIL »

Yeah, it's unfortunately on the ridiculous side of MD carts, though at least not (yet) quite as bad as Eliminate Down. I'm pretty much at the end of the road for my console library and have an enduring boner for that particular type of arcade-styled 16-bit original, which helped.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Strider77 »

I love this thread....

I can vouch for Eliminate Down though... it's quite good. You've probably emulated it though.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by EmperorIng »

[On emulation] I've been playing some Twinkle Tale and Revenge of Shinobi. I'm no good at either, but the good music and gfx keep me going. Those samurai in Revenge of Shinobi... just don't know a good way to handle them.
RGC wrote:Nice write-ups, BIL. You've inspired me to revisit Gleylancer, although it may have to be through filthy emu for now (pah!), since prices seem to be ever inflating on the cart (>£120, why is that?).

Welcome back, Rob.
It's the same reason why the Saturn Radiant Silvergun is so expensive - reputation. Even though you always find RSG around the internet, everyone buys the reputation of it being an super-rare Saturn game, so the price is inflated, probably $40 more than what it's really worth. Same with Ikaruga.

Gley Lancer is still pretty fun though. Good music, too. I believe it uses the Cube sound engine, which is one of the best Genesis sound engines.

And hey, the guy who single-handedly got me into Takumi games. Nice!
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

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EmperorIng wrote:Those samurai in Revenge of Shinobi... just don't know a good way to handle them.
Crouch-walk up to them and kick twice - job done. They can't hit you while you're ducking. Or if you want to be more stylish, follow the first kick with a standing stab. If you've a POW just walk into sword range and let rip to demonstrate their kenjutsu ain't shit compared to Joe's. Or hop over their heads and stick two shuriken in their back! Jumping over most enemies' heads will give you time to stab/shuriken the bastards. Not dogs though. ;]
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Marble »

MD is a console I loved as a kid but these days so many of the games just aren't fun to me. It's not like I've explored the whole library by any means; there's still a lot of games I'd like to try out. It's just that the only MD games I ever play these days are arcade ports.

Anyway, I think the best belt-scroller on the system is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Return of the Shredder/The Hyperstone Heist. It has a lot of problems, yeah. A lot of the levels are very similar to Turtles in Time (though the bosses are all different, even ones that look similar have different patterns). The entire fourth stage is a bland cave that's just a rush of previous bosses, though it has a unique boss at the end it's possible to milk it for infinite lives/score (if you really care), but besides that everything is pretty good.

I prefer the controls in this game to Turtles in Time (Here you run by holding down the C button as opposed to double tapping the pad or automatically running after you hold a direction for a certain period of time). The run itself is very integral to beating the game as well, which I like because I prefer games that reward for you fast-paced movement. From the run you can do different attacks which all have a strategic purpose within the game, for example there's the tackle (quite damaging, penetrates the guard of enemies who can block) and the slide (Which allows you to go under projectiles, knock enemies down and also grants a window of invincibility). An example would be in the last stage when freeze guns suddenly pop out of the ground, you can continuously slide to destroy them while remaining unscatched then establish a good position to fight the enemies. While there's only four enemies on screen at once (although it can be more with mousers) the crowd-control aspect is pretty fun because the enemy types and the many types of environmental hazards are varied pretty well. Plus the graphics and music are totally awesome. Overall a pretty good game.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BIL »

Took me 23 years or so since I first saw it on a promotional poster and thought "nice tanks," but I finally tried out Herzog Zwei tonight. Addictive as all hell even just playing the CPU... since my manual's in Japanese it took a bit of FAQing, but it's an easy game to grasp. Very much a coinop RTS. At first the very, very silly AI put me off a little, but working around its limitations is quite entertaining in itself. So yeah, don't deploy that expensive tank in front of a lava stream, the stupid fucker will drive right into it. Pick it up and plonk it down on the other side, job done. Looking forward to playing this head-to-head with a few fellow 16-bit reprobates soon.

Tecno Soft = YM2612 Overlords. This, Thunder Force III, Thunder Force IV, Elemental Master and Devil Crash MD's OSTs in the space of a few years is one hell of a canon.

Also gave the original MD Batman a shot - man, none of these games ever really lived up to the legendary FC sidescroller, did they? Might or might not keep this one around, it's fun enough and feels solid (nice diving double jump), but seems such a step down from the 8-bit game, even aesthetically.
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Drum »

Played a bit of Tempo. Pretty perfunctory platformer (as far as I can tell) but the animation really is lovely.
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.

Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Drum »

Ooooh, Super Tempo looks even better. It's like a Bubble Bobble sidescroller.
IGMO - Poorly emulated, never beaten.

Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

BIL wrote:Might or might not keep this one around, it's fun enough and feels solid (nice diving double jump), but seems such a step down from the 8-bit game, even aesthetically.
The 8-bit game verily is legendary. That and Another World are things I heard about years before the internet as we know it, in the midst of 16-bit struggle. Or was it the dawn of 32-bit era?
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BIL »

Come to think of it, I'm so wrong to say "even." FC Batman is one striking game. Needless to say, horsepower and style don't necessarily correlate...
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by Drum »

The Game Boy Batman by Sunsoft is pretty swell.

EDIT: In terms of gameplay, not looks. There's no mistaking it's an early GB game with those itty bitty sprites.

Played a bit of Generations Lost, which I thought was pretty cool, and Mahou Renjishi which is absurdly easy for the first few levels and then all of a sudden stupid hard. I think I liked it ok though. Will try on different settings (if there are some).
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by RGC »

Has anyone here done a MD->Jamma mod? I'm thinking of having a stab at this in the next week or so, to get more play time out of my fav console. Don't want her hidden away in the spare room anymore. :)
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Re: The Sega Megadrive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

Post by BIL »

Finished MD Batman with a couple of continues, but it's honestly not that compelling a sidescroller that I'd be motivated to do better. Particularly as Hard seems to be one of those "fiddle with the hitpoints" jobs that disinterest me even in first-rate action games (Hagane, Super Shinobi II, etc). Passable game with a total lack of hooks that feels absolutely primitive in comparison to the FC title, and several other action highlights from that system. A glorious HITLER NO FUKKATSU this game's grappling ain't!

The ability to knee-drop out of the game's tumbling double jump is midly interesting, but scuppered since it's so weak it won't kill any but the weakest scrubs, and you'll still take damage if you collide with enemies stunned by it. Bosses all suck - ironically the only good battle is versus Jack Nicholson (with 1HP), who's perched on a ledge above some toxic waste. Fun using the double jump to clear the gap, dodge Jack's bullet and smash knee into skull in one swoop, knocking him into the toxic shite below.

Gains nothing artistically from the extra bittage, either. Quite the opposite in fact:

Image

YES.

Image

NO.

Funny how Michael Keaton is on the FC's box yet it maintains only a vague thread with the 1989 movie, employing a fantastic comic book world of hulking mutants, flamethrowing mecha and supercomputers bristling with vicious security apparatus. The MD's box is Keaton-less but it attempts to mirror the movie closely, and comes off worse for it (so many Inexplicably Levitating Platforms in the museum). Oddly enough the FC game's demigod elemental wizard Joker is here too, albeit favouring Terry's power wave rather than Iori's 8 wine cups.

Music is comparably good, though. Besides it sharing the FC's boss theme riff, there are definitely shades of the brilliant Raf World and Gremlins 2 FC soundtracks in there. Along with Capcom, Konami and Tecmo, Sunsoft are my FC game music heroes.

edit: got the clear. achievement unlocked!
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