Castlevania Miscellanies

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: Castlevania Mischief

Post by BIL »

Oh no, lager is kicking in! Apologies if this is a bit leaden.
Ronyn wrote:I am amazed at how D's Curse generates deference for sporting a mild level select, presenting one tier enjoyable while the other can be frowned upon. But that it is in this state viewed as a complete game when the gripe part can easily be dropped and ignored is bewildering to me. It almost constitutes a golf clap from my part of the field.
What really helps is that each half is genuinely distinct and contiguous enough to feel like a discrete game. There's no sense of loss, or sense of repetition if you play both back-to-back (Contra Hard Corps drives me up the wall on both counts... welcome to the jungle, we've got long stretches of tedium!)
In my opinion SCIV has it's flaws (length, tautness, 8-way), but now I can't help but imagine how players might think if it had simply given the same treatment as The Curse. Take your pick and leave the rest. You like?
CV4 is a subtly different case. It takes overly long to reach a boiling point, but I still value that preamble for atmosphere and the sense of journey (I wish the outer areas kept the downbeat mood, ala st1's haunted stables and st2's grim forest. I want a sense of overgrowth and neglect, not ROTATION STATION).

I could easily start it off at Dracula's front door via Loop 2 PW every time, but yuuuck! I fucking refuse. I love the abrupt sense of "holy shit, I'm not welcome here" as 63rd ARMOURED BONEY-KUN DIVISION rolls up. And everything from that point is good to great, occasionally excellent, so there's nothing to choose. Slow burner + overly long duration means it's something I play less readily, but that goes for some of my favourite games ever like the first two Silent Hills.

CVIII gets going quick enough, but one half is notably aggravating and gimmicky, best seen occasionally if ever. You can only play one, so the choice makes itself really. A side, B side.
BrianC wrote:Control gripes aside (and honestly the slight slowness in Belmont's revenge never bothered me that much. I found Legends and Adventure to be worse in the slowness), Dracula Densetsu II/Belmont's Revenge still has far superior level design compared to XX.
I dunno, I wouldn't even compare them directly (beyond their obvious shared affliction). DDII's a friendly game with lots of novel mechanics and variety, almost a mini-Rondo in that regard. XX is as stripped-down and punishing as the series got post-CV1, relying on a small but effective set of building blocks.

The arcade game is conspicuously absent from the this discussion. I've barely ever played it, but I know it's got its fans here and there. I think you're quite into IIRC, SuperDeadite? I'm nowhere hardcore enough for PCBs, but I did get Hamster's crummy, possibly MAME-stolen PS2 disc for a rainy day. :mrgreen:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Obscura »

Dream romhack -- add the cool sinking Atlantis stage to CV3's top route.
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BIL
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Well observed - that stage is indeed the great exception! And it's also the only way to hear "Aquarius" on that route, so win/win.

Although it means you also have to hear the rather over-stretched "Pressure" twice in the same run. :lol:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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BIL wrote:It just hit me that CVIII is the indulgent double LP of the FC games
That's a great analogy!

Yes, upper path all the way. I play lower path once in a while for variety's sake, but melting blocks/falling blocks can suck my dirty cock :X

I also slightly prefer CV1 to 3. It's just your meat and potatoes CV and hits all the targets, is short to romp through(which I prefer) and just has this timeless classic aura about it.


I really need, to set up an x68000 emulator, and play CV on there...
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
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Re: Castlevania Mischief

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Ronyn wrote:I am amazed at how D's Curse generates deference for sporting a mild level select, presenting one tier enjoyable while the other can be frowned upon. But that it is in this state viewed as a complete game when the gripe part can easily be dropped and ignored is bewildering to me. It almost constitutes a golf clap from my part of the field.
Think about it this way. We are not playing the role of high brow video game critics trying to draw a full image of the quality of the game. Saying I prefer CV3 to CV1 is entirely a question of how much I enjoy playing each game, and when CV3 gives me an option of playing it in a way that I highly enjoy, I don't think the other path is relevant.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by BrianC »

I have means of playing Vs. Castlevania via real hardware, but I can't think if of a real reason to play it over the original. At least it has a noticeable difference. Vs. Goonies seems to be the exact same game as the cart aside from palette differences.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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VS Castlevania's first loop would make a fine third loop for the FC game. Though tbh, once the damage scale gets really nuts, I think it detracts slightly. I like that trad CV generally has a margin of error, it encourages risk and daring. If I wanted to record a literal no damage run of CV1, I'm pretty sure I could. I'm also quite sure I'd hate it.

I found it funny how despite the tightened parameters, the Stage 5 Red Boney-Kun Extend-O-Matic still works just fine. :lol:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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When you get hit in Vs. Castlevania, you're halfway dead, so you really gotta make sure not to get hit. I think that alone is a great reason to play it over the original. For a game with a dangerous reputation, I never really considered the original CV1 particularly hard, so I love to see a tighter version of it.
Oh, and keep moving or you're gonna time out.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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No joke, when I first played and the low timer warning went off, I looked up to see if it was my alarm clock. :lol: I forgot the game even had such a thing.

ULTIMATE CV1 BLEEP/BLOOP TRIVIA: compare the end-stage heart tally of the NES and FC cartridge versions. :cool: I almost prefer the NES's tally sound tbh, it's slower but pleasingly nostalgic.
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Re: Castlevania Mischief

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Ronyn wrote:I am amazed at how D's Curse generates deference for sporting a mild level select, presenting one tier enjoyable while the other can be frowned upon. But that it is in this state viewed as a complete game when the gripe part can easily be dropped and ignored is bewildering to me. It almost constitutes a golf clap from my part of the field.
When I was younger I felt the same as many here where there was one preferable route I had to play in order for it to be enjoyable. Nowadays that I'm much more experienced, the appeal of the game is the variety. I play every route and character almost equally now, and I'm still finding neat things to do with each of them I was unaware of when younger. Routes I used to despise are now fun to play as my skill and patience has increased, and I can even try to challenge myself further by only playing as specific characters instead of switching between them. To me III might be the absolute best in the linear franchise due to its breadth of variety and room for experimentation.
Ronyn wrote:In my opinion SCIV has it's flaws (length, tautness, 8-way), but now I can't help but imagine how players might think if it had simply given the same treatment as The Curse. Take your pick and leave the rest. You like?
I'm sure it would have been fine, but honestly I wonder if it would have made the same impact. It's easy to look back on it now and pick apart its supposed flaws (thanks to the majority of us now having 30+ years of gaming experience under our belts), but at the time of its release it struck me as a massive evolution over the previous NES incarnations. The huge sprites, visuals effects, eight way whipping, controllable mid-air movement, and the upgraded music were nothing like anything we got in the series on the NES (or in NES games in general, if I'm honest). It was truly "next-gen" at the time and that's always left an impact on me (and I'm sure others as well that were there to experience it).
BIL wrote:VS Castlevania's first loop would make a fine third loop for the FC game. Though tbh, once the damage scale gets really nuts, I think it detracts slightly. I like that trad CV generally has a margin of error, it encourages risk and daring. If I wanted to record a literal no damage run of CV1, I'm pretty sure I could. I'm also quite sure I'd hate it.

I found it funny how despite the tightened parameters, the Stage 5 Red Bonkey-Kun Extend-O-Matic still works just fine. :lol:
Timer aside, I was always under the impression that VS Castlevania was just NES Castlevania's second loop. Is that not the case? I thought I fired it up once on my flash cart but didn't notice much of a difference in the enemy layout. I'll have to try it again just to give my brain a refresher.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Speaking for myself and my circle of friends who played it when it came out, we all derided it as a "baby game", because it was so much easier than old Castlevania. When Bloodlines came out, all of us who were so sure of SNES superiority were forced to reevaluate our beliefs!
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Obscura wrote:Speaking for myself and my circle of friends who played it when it came out, we all derided it as a "baby game", because it was so much easier than old Castlevania. When Bloodlines came out, all of us who were so sure of SNES superiority were forced to reevaluate our beliefs!
That's interesting, my friends and I didn't have anywhere close to an easy time with it, particularly from the torture chamber and on. The final stage into the boss rush in particular gave us hell for a while too. Naturally I can pretty much sleepwalk through the game now, but for nine year old me it certainly wasn't easy.

Bloodlines I wrecked in pretty much my first playthrough, but I guess I was four or five years more experienced by the time I played it (I think '95 or '96 is when I tried it, it had dropped to $20 by then when I snagged my first copy).
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Re: Castlevania Mischief

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Austin wrote:Timer aside, I was always under the impression that VS Castlevania was just NES Castlevania's second loop. Is that not the case? I thought I fired it up once on my flash cart but didn't notice much of a difference in the enemy layout. I'll have to try it again just to give my brain a refresher.
IIRC it's a bit tougher on the damage scale... although having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if it used the Loop 1 fishman patterns, which are subtly deadlier in 2-1, and flat-out *ANGRY GAY SOUNDS* bullshit in 2-4. Easly the loop's biggest threat. In fact I'm almost certain it uses Loop 1's fishmen, because in my time with it I don't recall needing the rocket surgeon-esque analysis and planning of a CV1 Loop 2 catacomb.

So VS's first loop is probably between CV1's first and second. It gets nuts from the second, so maybe that's the one I should be thinking of for a third CV1 loop.
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Re: Castlevania Mischief

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BIL wrote:it wouldn't surprise me if it used the Loop 1 fishman patterns, which are subtly deadlier in 2-1, and flat-out *ANGRY GAY SOUNDS* bullshit in 2-4. Easly the loop's biggest threat. In fact I'm almost certain it uses Loop 1's fishmen, because in my time with it I don't recall needing the rocket surgeon-esque analysis and planning of a CV1 Loop 2 catacomb.
The stopwatch is your friend there, man. :)
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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It is (I use it for the first half in my runs, until the midpoint island) - but there's only so much ammo down there, and taking the watch ensures you'll need to fight Franky/Igor with either the axe or dagger. Which is fine by me tbh, but I wasn't feeling up to it at the time, so I figured out how to keep the holy water and nuke 'em. :wink:

Ironically, in the 2-ALL I have up, I cave Loop 1 F/I's heads in with x3 Axe. I can kill 'em with the dagger fairly reliably too, but yeah, long way back if you mess up. In retrospect it'd have made for a cooler run, but at least I got a working non-watch Loop Catacomb demo out of it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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BIL wrote:It is (I use it for the first half in my runs, until the midpoint island) - but there's only so much ammo down there, and taking the watch ensures you'll need to fight Franky/Igor with either the axe or dagger. Which is fine by me tbh, but I wasn't feeling up to it at the time, so I figured out how to keep the holy water and nuke 'em. :wink:
Yeah, personally I just grab the stopwatch and use it immediately for the first section, then ditch it for the holy water right after. The second section is usually pretty consistent for me.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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BIL wrote: ULTIMATE CV1 BLEEP/BLOOP TRIVIA: compare the end-stage heart tally of the NES and FC cartridge versions. :cool: I almost prefer the NES's tally sound tbh, it's slower but pleasingly nostalgic.
Since we're on the subject... I randomly came across a Famicom copy in a bundle of stuff I brought recently. Are there any other noticeable differences that makes that version at least interesting to experience over the western release?

I'm not gonna save my game lol.
Austin wrote: I'm sure it would have been fine, but honestly I wonder if it would have made the same impact. It's easy to look back on it now and pick apart its supposed flaws (thanks to the majority of us now having 30+ years of gaming experience under our belts), but at the time of its release it struck me as a massive evolution over the previous NES incarnations. The huge sprites, visuals effects, eight way whipping, controllable mid-air movement, and the upgraded music were nothing like anything we got in the series on the NES (or in NES games in general, if I'm honest).
That's the story I hear a lot, but for me CV4 was actually the game that turned me off on Castlevania for years. I'd played CV3 as a kid and liked it but sucked at it, so it was distant in my memory (nevermind the fact that both games came out the same year - I didn't play CV4 until the mid/late 90s). It IS a much, much better game than I gave it credit for then, but it's definitely not as easily approachable as the earlier classic Castlevania games. I always found the graphics extremely off-putting, too.
Austin wrote:Timer aside, I was always under the impression that VS Castlevania was just NES Castlevania's second loop. Is that not the case? I thought I fired it up once on my flash cart but didn't notice much of a difference in the enemy layout. I'll have to try it again just to give my brain a refresher.
VS Castlevania is just NES Castlevania's regular first loop, with a couple of parameters tightened to give you less of a margin of error. Namely the amount of damage you take, and the timer. Not sure why BIL compares it to CV1's second loop at all?
The game still has the actual second loop (and as far as I recall it even has the 1up on the first stage of that).
Obscura wrote:Speaking for myself and my circle of friends who played it when it came out, we all derided it as a "baby game", because it was so much easier than old Castlevania. When Bloodlines came out, all of us who were so sure of SNES superiority were forced to reevaluate our beliefs!
But Bloodlines is much, much easier than CV4? I guess the moment-to-moment difficulty in CV4 is a lot more forigiving, but due to its sheer length keeping on to your lives for the entire trek takes a lot more practice.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Sumez wrote:Since we're on the subject... I randomly came across a Famicom copy in a bundle of stuff I brought recently. Are there any other noticeable differences that makes that version at least interesting to experience over the western release?
Was it CIB, good condition? It goes for quite a bit, so there's that. :wink:

Otherwise, not particularly. It's the bugfixed NES PRG1 rev, with a cooler title screen and an exclusive Easy mode. Which is of no use to veterans, but still a fairly interesting effort at noob-friendly CV1. Removes hit knockback to the joy of bumblers everywhere, IIRC makes the shot upgrade global, probably does some other stuff.
I'm not gonna save my game lol.
You can't, that's only in the FDS version. ;3 Which goes for a fraction of the cart's price, but has load times and disk flipping, yuuuck!
VS Castlevania is just NES Castlevania's regular first loop, with a couple of parameters tightened to give you less of a margin of error. Namely the amount of damage you take, and the timer. Not sure why BIL compares it to CV1's second loop at all?
Yeah, it's the second loop of Versus CV I was thinking of. I was saying it'd make a nice third loop for CV1 (which simply repeats its second loop, like a lot of FDS-based games). Even if it was just the wacky damage scale, it'd be something to shoot for.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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BIL wrote: Was it CIB, good condition? It goes for quite a bit, so there's that. :wink:
It's the original FDS version.
BIL wrote: You can't, that's only in the FDS version. ;3
I just told you! It's the original FDS version. :3
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Ah, if it's the disk then yeah - name entry / game save (why) and loadtimes / disk flipping (Akumajou Dracula: McDonald's Training Seminar no Nazo) are about all it's got. Image Game's identical to NES PRG1 otherwise.

I'd hang onto it for historical value if nothing else, it being the series' very first game. Wouldn't play it though. ;3
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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The arcade game (Haunted Castle) is by all accounts an unfinished game. Frankenstein's chain attack only has about half the animation frames that it should have, meaning you can get hit by totally invisible attacks. But, the game still has a lot of charm. The music is great as ever, and there are some really weird but interesting "WTF??" moments you won't find anywhere else in the series. Any fan of classic Castlevania should give it an honest try.

But it does help to know a few things.
#1. Play the Japanese version only. The other versions are flat-out broken.
#2. Learn how the mechanics work. This game only gives you one life bar, but it is actually refilled at the end of each stage based on the number of hearts you have remaining. The catch is that you can only refill the main bar. If you are one of those people who uses 3 credits and pushes start 3 times on the first stage, you just screwed yourself over.
#3. You can't die from falling off-screen. You will lose health, but not die. You can have just 1hp left, and fall off the stage again and again, you will not die until the timer runs out.
#4. Think outside the box, every stage has parts that will seem unfair and too difficult the first time you come to them. But once you learn the tricks, the game gets really easy.
#5. Understand how the bugs work. Probably the most notorious bug is that if you are on loop 2 or later, you will often spawn on the mummy stage with just the basic whip, making you very underpowered. But when this happens the very first mummy will drop the sword, every time.
#6. Use the stop-watch. It is highly overpowered and will freeze everything, including dracula himself. But there is a catch, enemies destroyed while frozen will cause their item drops to not spawn. You want to freeze, weaken, let unfreeze, then finish them off to keep your heart count up.

RE: Hamster Port. It sucks. Besides the ugly 480i visuals, it has some serious emulation bugs, especially on loop 2 or later as I'm guessing they didn't bother to test that far. Sometimes the sound volume will randomly change. Sadly the Japanese PCB goes for INSANE money these days.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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SuperDeadite wrote:RE: Hamster Port. It sucks. Besides the ugly 480i visuals, it has some serious emulation bugs, especially on loop 2 or later as I'm guessing they didn't bother to test that far. Sometimes the sound volume will randomly change. Sadly the Japanese PCB goes for INSANE money these days.
I take it you're talking about the PS2 Hamster port? Fortunately there's an Arcade Archives version on PS4 and it's pretty solid. It has all three versions included (JPN, USA, EUR).

I need to get back to learning this one. I spent a couple of nights with it when I got a PS4 a few months back. Finished it a couple of times, but not even close to a 1CC.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Yeah, the arcade game is its own beast. It's probably not even a good game, but it's an enjoyable one if you play by its rules.
And the game is basically all about figuring out the rules for each individual challenge it throws at you, nothing is consistent in that game. It's a memorizer at its finest.
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Re: Castlevania Mischief

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BIL wrote:CV4 is a subtly different case. It takes overly long to reach a boiling point
I now understand what you're talking about. Really sat down with CV4 over the last two days. Map screen and all it never dawned on me until I was on stage five or six that I wasn't even in the castle yet. Although some quick Google Fu has told me this started happening much earlier in the series. I knew you didn't start at the castle in Simon's Quest (it seems like we don't mention that here) but I honestly couldn't remember about DC. I actually did play DC a lot in eighth grade when it came out, but remember little about it and haven't spent significant time with a CV game since.

Oh side note the candy store by my house had a Haunted Castle cab - OH COOL A NEW GAME. KONAMI? HEY IS THIS CASTLEVANIA? I THINK SO. ONE LIFE?!?! FUCK THIS.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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I just had a conversation with a friend:

HIM: Did you see the new Smash Direct? That is, the new Nintendo Direct entirely about Smash
ME: I frankly don't give a shit about Smash unless they add Simon Belmont
NINTENDO:
Spoiler
Image
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Meh, I generally play zoning characters, gonna have to hold out for Sypha.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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To be honest I still don't care about Smash, I just want a Simon Belmont amiibo. If any stores in Europe are still planning on carrying amiibos at that point of course, I don't remember the last time I've seen one in person.
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Re: Castlevania Mischief

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Stevens wrote: Oh side note the candy store by my house had a Haunted Castle cab - OH COOL A NEW GAME. KONAMI? HEY IS THIS CASTLEVANIA? I THINK SO. ONE LIFE?!?! FUCK THIS.
You can insert more credits during play to restore your health, although I think there's a 3-credit limit.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Stevens wrote:I now understand what you're talking about. Really sat down with CV4 over the last two days. Map screen and all it never dawned on me until I was on stage five or six that I wasn't even in the castle yet. Although some quick Google Fu has told me this started happening much earlier in the series. I knew you didn't start at the castle in Simon's Quest (it seems like we don't mention that here) but I honestly couldn't remember about DC.
It's a fine concept imo, in both III and IV. Gives a nice sense of journey, and lets the castle itself bust loose without preamble. II doesn't really fit either traditional or Metroidvania format, but regardless, it completely missed its shot. The mansions should've been periodic returns to CV1's tight, linear killboxes capped off by memorable bosses. Instead they're big nothings, until the castle's literal nothing.

(I don't hate II, in fact I recommend people play it as a curio, just so they'll spot all the fun references in later games. I don't feel much of anything for it at all tbh. :lol: )

On the Metroidvania side, Order of Ecclesia made excellent use of the concept. The map's isolated locations are its "explore and acquire" phase, with a comprehensive criss-crossing required to unlock the castle. The castle is an enormous, dangerous labyrinth designed to kill your traditionally unstoppable endgame character, loaded with brutal action. Great game overall.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing Shanoa in Smash. One of the series' more viscerally violent characters. Fond memories of equipping DOMINUS AGONY and a pair of rapiers, then HOKUTO HYAKURETSU KENning the fuck out of intimidating BLACKMORE; damage output skyrocketing in a hammering racket as both combatants' HPs plunged into the red. It's killing me but I'm killing you a lot worse, motherfucker! Image

Also SHE HAWT, plus I dig augment protagonists. Image
Sumez wrote:ME: I frankly don't give a shit about Smash unless they add Simon Belmont
NINTENDO:
Spoiler
Image
Yo, that's MAH BOI. :shock: And Richter too! Looks like they've done the great men proud. Good they've used their rugged debut boxart incarnations and not some of the ones since, Simon especially. You gotta be a real hardcase to intimidate in hotpants.

"Son, I am disappoint in your sensible trousers."
Spoiler
Image
"Distract it with your flamboyant dance moves while I jump on its back and saw its head off."
Spoiler
Image
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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BIL wrote: Yo, that's MAH BOI. :shock: And Richter too! Looks like they've done the great men proud. Good they've used their rugged debut boxart incarnations and not some of the ones since, Simon especially. You gotta be a real hardcase to intimidate in hotpants.
Nintendo had a poll some years ago about who people wanted added to Smash, and I voted Simon Belmont entirely in the hope of them bringing back this exact version of the guy!
BIL wrote: "Distract it with your flamboyant dance moves while I jump on its back and saw its head off."
:D
Yeah, the trailer is really worth watching for the Castlevania fanservice, featuring many well known cameos, including Carmila peeking through a window, and a mock Dracula bossfight. Also Death straight up murders Luigi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV2T3B9yixw
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