Mega Man Miscellanies

[Moniker]

So I recently pulled my PS2 out of storage for Persona 4 & the two mega man anthologies that after painstaking effort I finally managed to get. I'm noticing a lot of input lag as compared to mega man on the VC or nesDS. Do I just need a new controller, or is this standard for the PS2 and I've been spoiled by current-gen controller tech? Been a few years since I've used the console so I can't really remember if it controlled better in the past.

[szycag]

I think the PS2 version of MMAC has some input lag. It's nothing to do with the controller. From what I read it varies between the games.

[Moniker]

Ho hum. Yeah I checked some other sites and it seems like a general problem. Will hafta see if I can deal with it and/or if it's worth it. Haven't tried 7 or 8 yet, which is the main reason I got it, so hopefully those are a bit better.

[Jeneki]

Try playing with a HORI joystick or some other non-dualshock controller. Mega Man Anniversary Collection has some ... interesting code that pops up when using non standard controllers.

[Casper<3]

Ho hum. Yeah I checked some other sites and it seems like a general problem. Will hafta see if I can deal with it and/or if it's worth it. Haven't tried 7 or 8 yet, which is the main reason I got it, so hopefully those are a bit better.

Why? oh why!? Those are two of the worst megaman games in existence. I think you're the first person to ever suggest you actually like them. :/

I've beat the whole anniversary collection for the most part so it's deff doable.

[DJ Incompetent]

I don't remember any input lag.

I cleared both arcade games with no hits, buster only on that version.

[Moniker]

Ho hum. Yeah I checked some other sites and it seems like a general problem. Will hafta see if I can deal with it and/or if it's worth it. Haven't tried 7 or 8 yet, which is the main reason I got it, so hopefully those are a bit better.

Why? oh why!? Those are two of the worst megaman games in existence. I think you're the first person to ever suggest you actually like them. :/

lol, I knew someone was going to say that.

I'm something of a MM apologist. If it even faintly resembles classic MM gameplay, I'm all over it. They're certainly the weakest of the main series, but I can't help myself. I think 8 at least is pretty good, objectively, outside of the stupid minigame interludes. I also have somewhat unusual Mega Man tastes. My favorites are 4 and 6 - most people would cite 2, 3 and maybe 5. This is outside of 9 & 10, which completely blow me away, esp 10.

In other news, I found that the lag seems to be better in navi mode, and not so bad outside of Mega Man 2. The music remixes are pretty good, and the game assist crap isn't intrusive enough to put me off. But it's sort of a shame because I was all pumped up to 1CC Mega Man 2 without being tempted by emu tools. They screwed with Mega Man 2's difficulty options, making easy (normal) mode different from the original, I guess to standardize it across the games. They just reduced HP and removed the egg-dropping birds... I think the normal (difficult) mode has been changed too -- enemies seem to have more HP.

But that's all nitpicking. Being able to swap weapons with L/R is a pretty awesome UI improvement. Speeds up the gameplay considerably.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Why? oh why!? Those are two of the worst megaman games in existence. I think you're the first person to ever suggest you actually like them. :/

There are no bad entries in the main classic series. You're shallow as fuck to be thinking that. Out. Out with you.

[Casper<3]

Ho hum. Yeah I checked some other sites and it seems like a general problem. Will hafta see if I can deal with it and/or if it's worth it. Haven't tried 7 or 8 yet, which is the main reason I got it, so hopefully those are a bit better.

Why? oh why!? Those are two of the worst megaman games in existence. I think you're the first person to ever suggest you actually like them. :/

lol, I knew someone was going to say that.

I'm something of a MM apologist. If it even faintly resembles classic MM gameplay, I'm all over it. They're certainly the weakest of the main series, but I can't help myself. I think 8 at least is pretty good, objectively, outside of the stupid minigame interludes. I also have somewhat unusual Mega Man tastes. My favorites are 4 and 6 - most people would cite 2, 3 and maybe 5. This is outside of 9 & 10, which completely blow me away, esp 10.

In other news, I found that the lag seems to be better in navi mode, and not so bad outside of Mega Man 2. The music remixes are pretty good, and the game assist crap isn't intrusive enough to put me off. But it's sort of a shame because I was all pumped up to 1CC Mega Man 2 without being tempted by emu tools. They screwed with Mega Man 2's difficulty options, making easy (normal) mode different from the original, I guess to standardize it across the games. They just reduced HP and removed the egg-dropping birds... I think the normal (difficult) mode has been changed too -- enemies seem to have more HP.

But that's all nitpicking. Being able to swap weapons with L/R is a pretty awesome UI improvement. Speeds up the gameplay considerably.

You got me there. 5 is my favorite with 2 in a close second (in the main series) I just love 5 and 2 was the first megaman game I played so I have fond memories of it. I remember growing up whenever I went to someone's house that I had never been before I would always ask "do you have megaman!?" lol

[Mortificator]

Thanks for posting this. I've had the Anniversary Collection in the back of my mind for whatever distant date I feel like replaying the NES games, solely for the ability to change gear with the shoulder buttons.

[Moniker]

You got me there. 5 is my favorite with 2 in a close second (in the main series) I just love 5 and 2 was the first megaman game I played so I have fond memories of it. I remember growing up whenever I went to someone's house that I had never been before I would always ask "do you have megaman!?" lol

Yeah, the only thing I don't like about 5 is the weapon set. Gravity hold is pretty cool, but I really just can't seem to find a use for the others, although screwing around with Super Arrow is way too much fun, and Beat is a friggin wrecking ball. 10's weapons are relatively weak too, but I feel like every time I play I find a new use for one of them. I don't think I'll ever find a use for star shield or p. stone. The level design is superb, though.

[Casper<3]

You got me there. 5 is my favorite with 2 in a close second (in the main series) I just love 5 and 2 was the first megaman game I played so I have fond memories of it. I remember growing up whenever I went to someone's house that I had never been before I would always ask "do you have megaman!?" lol

Yeah, the only thing I don't like about 5 is the weapon set. Gravity hold is pretty cool, but I really just can't seem to find a use for the others, although screwing around with Super Arrow is way too much fun, and Beat is a friggin wrecking ball. 10's weapons are relatively weak too, but I feel like every time I play I find a new use for one of them. I don't think I'll ever find a use for star shield or p. stone. The level design is superb, though.

I'll give you stone man's weapon is crap but the star shield is awesome, you use it just like woodman's weapon in 2. I love the slidekick and ever since I was little Napalm Man's weapon was just the coolest thing ever. ...but just about every Megaman game has a handful of useful and useless weapons.

7 for me was just too drawn out, it was boring and slow with enemies that took forever to kill. 8 wasn't as bad but still suffered from the same problems and 7, except with more boring enemies. Not to mention around the time these games came out, they were competing with the X series. (which I personally believe X-X5 to be the highest point of all things megaman)

[Moniker]

A good chap on youtube named Mineyl did a series of excellent annotated megaman "gadgeteer" playthroughs where he only used special weapons (apart from the first level, of course). So far he's done 1-7 of the classic series. I've been badgering him to do X, 8-10, and &Bass.

Megaman 1
Megaman 2
Megaman 3
Megaman 4
Megaman 5
Megaman 6
Megaman 7

Really gives you a new appreciation of the games. I'll have to rewatch his take on 5.

[Moniker]

Apologies for the bump, but I got the MM Zero collection for DS* recently. Has anyone played these games? The difficulty is freaking staggering. They play really well, though, so I wonder if we have any Zero experts in the house. Worth the investment in time and frustration?

*Edited: not psp.

[Estebang]

Apologies for the bump, but I got the MM Zero collection for psp

Doesn't exist. You must mean "for DS."

And yes, the Zero games are notoriously difficult, though relentless grinding in the early missions to level up your weapons helps a lot. No real way around it besides that, aside from hoarding healing elves for the toughest bosses, and farming crystals to get more of them.

MMZ1 has a Cyber-Elf that permanently freezes over all spikes in the game, although it needs an absurd amount of crystals.

[BulletMagnet]

I actually picked up the Zero collection myself, and from what I've played so far (mainly the first game) it's pretty brutal...personally, though, I'm not so much bothered by the difficulty of the levels/bosses themselves (though they can certainly be tough) as opposed to how incredibly unforgiving the game is (or at least seems) when it comes to failure.

Someone correct me if I'm off base here. Not only can each "cyber elf" enhancement only be used once throughout the entire game, but if you use up all your retries on a mission, that mission cannot be played again unless you go back to your previous save...and any pickups, enhancements, etc. found within that mission can never be obtained, thus making future missions that much more difficult, permanently. The game also takes the "original Rayman" approach to lives - if you use up all but one life finishing a mission, that one life is all you'll be able to draw from until you find more...making it much easier to fail (and be completely closed off from) future missions. Combine this with the typical Mega Man "you'd better make this particular jump at this precise angle the very first time you encounter it, or else some baddie from offscreen will suddenly laser you mid-jump and send you down into an insta-death bottomless pit" brand of challenge, and like Moniker I'm wondering if the nice spritework is really worth everything else.

Again, I feel like I'm missing something here - someone please let me know what I'm doing wrong.

[Moniker]

My current MO is to use continues to practice a boss, then revert a save and try and get it in one shot. Failing that, some more practice. Rinse, repeat. It's not awful but I do get bulletmag's feeling of "I'm doin it wrong."

[Ruldra]

It's been a few years since I played the Zero series. The games are very challenging but very much worth playing.

I recall having a LOT of trouble at the beginning of the first game (especially the first boss after rescuing Ciel), but after grinding the weapons a bit I didn't have much trouble later. There's one elf that doubles your lifebar and turns the game into a joke, but at the cost of a big dent on your rank.

I especially like the fact that keeping your rank high in MMZ2 (either rank A or S) gives you new moves at the end of each level. The bosses will be much harder and use new attacks on you, though.

Funny enough, I beat the first three games, and when MMZ4 came out I thought: "Meh, the series will go on forever just like MMX" and never played it. Turns out it's the final game in the series. I need to play it sometime just to say I've beaten them all.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I could never get into Zero 3 (and by extension, 4) for whatever reason. Played up to Deathtanz Mantisk's stage, turned off the game and never touched it again. Loved Z1 & 2 though. Managed to hold onto an A rank for both those games all the way up 'till the final stage. I love Mega Man, but man do I ever suck at them.

[gct]

I got the DS collection but I can't stand the controls, something about the grip being too thin with buttons near the periphery that fatigues my hands, so I played the GBA version of MMZ1 on my GBMicro.

I never really bothered with using cyber elves because I didn't have the heart to kill them like that, so I'm pretty sure I cleared MMZ1 without using any elves. I definitely did the weapon grinding early on, but I pretty much stuck to Buster and Z Saber the entire game, didn't find the other weapons too useful.

Bosses took a number of tries, but the levels were so short that starting from the beginning of the level each time, eventually I could breeze through really quickly and try the boss again.

Might get back to MMZ2-4 now that you reminded me about the series.

[Estebang]

Funny enough, I beat the first three games, and when MMZ4 came out I thought: "Meh, the series will go on forever just like MMX" and never played it. Turns out it's the final game in the series. I need to play it sometime just to say I've beaten them all.

The ZX games are similar enough that they can be considered new series entries, though they're definitely not as good.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I wonder at which exact point Capcom added grinding to otherwise pure action games (see Viewtiful Joe and DMC3).

[Ruldra]

My current MO is to use continues to practice a boss, then revert a save and try and get it in one shot. Failing that, some more practice. Rinse, repeat. It's not awful but I do get bulletmag's feeling of "I'm doin it wrong."

Yes, this is what I did as well. After you get the hang of the game though, you won't need to resort to this as much.

[Mortificator]

Yeah, I think a lot of players do that. The retry system ultimately doesn't amount to much more than an annoyance, which is probably why the rest of the series just uses lives.

Someone correct me if I'm off base here. Not only can each "cyber elf" enhancement only be used once throughout the entire game, but if you use up all your retries on a mission, that mission cannot be played again unless you go back to your previous save...and any pickups, enhancements, etc. found within that mission can never be obtained, thus making future missions that much more difficult, permanently.

That's not quite right. Let's say you die while playing a mission. The continue screen that comes up gives you a choice between loading a save, and thus having to start the mission over, or spending a retry and respawning at a checkpoint. If you run out of retries, you don't fail and lose access to the mission, but the "retry" option obviously won't be available anymore. Failing missions and continuing the game with the consequences only occurs if you choose "give up" on the continue screen or use the escape unit in a mission, which can't be done for the first couple or last few missions.

The Zero games are kinda Raizing-like in that they seem typical of their genre at first glance, but have this difficulty system under the hood you need to know about. Cyber-elves are Zero's analogue to Garegga's rank. If you've used all the elves with permanent effects, it's hard to die from anything but bottomless pits, as even bosses can only take tiny chips off your gargantuan life meter. On the other extreme, you could use no elves at all, making the game balls-hard yet still beatable. The idea is to use Cyber-elves to the point that the difficulty becomes comfortable for you.

Cyber-elf usage incurs a penalty to the calculations for your letter grade, but that's really just scoring in the first game, with the only in-game effect being that bosses have an additional move if you fight them while at A or S.

grinding in the early missions to level up your weapons helps a lot

This is very helpful, especially since in the beginning where you don't have much freedom to find and feed elves. Liberal buster use on the way to Aztec Falcon will raise your buster skill to two stars and make the fight much easier. You could also spend more time, get your saber up to four stars, and totally own him with its charge attack.

[ED-057]

I wonder at which exact point Capcom added grinding to otherwise pure action games (see Viewtiful Joe and DMC3).

Would suiciding repeatedly on skullman`s stage just to stock up on energy tanks count as grinding? *trollface*

[Blade]

If only Zero collection was on something besides DS...I would've loved to pick it up elsewhere.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

If Mega Man Zero ultimately proves to be too hard for you, there's always the phenomenal Battle Network series which are just as mentally taxing but in a different way. The GBA era is the pinnacle of Mega Man IMO.

[Ruldra]

If Mega Man Zero ultimately proves to be too hard for you, there's always the phenomenal Battle Network series which are just as mentally taxing but in a different way. The GBA era is the pinnacle of Mega Man IMO.

I second this. The Battle Network series is a bit childish (they kinda remind you of Pokemon), but they're very good games. Had a great time playing Battle Network 1 and 2.

Beating all bosses in BN2 with rank S in an attempt to fight Bass was one of my favorite moments playing the GBA.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I know that feel man. Came dangerously close to fighting DuoSP in BN4, but pussied out when it came time to use dark chips to complete the P.A. folder. Even though the requirements for 100% completion are kinda bullshit, it's still addicting as hell playing them to the end. Oddly enough, ShadeMan ended up becoming the hardest part of the game when it came time for my S rankings.

[njiska]

Lately i've been trying to marathon through both the classic and X series. Since I had a copy of the X collection I decided to give X3 a whirl. All i can say is what the hell happened? I know it's the PSX version, but I had no idea they had replaced all the audio with rearranged tracks. The theme for the intro stage in the SNES version is one of my favourites, but the rearranged version is just so terrible and docile. Is the rest of the game going to sound this weak?