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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:25 pm 


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Well I've finally been annoyed enough to post about this here.

There are some that might think some of the worst threads might reside on shmups farm...

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No the worst thread on any site I regularly visit resides on another forum. There is an old racist on there. Imagine Zen, but worse and will never be banned for reasons unknown. He made a thread roughly a week ago about "Inner City Culture". I'm sure many can already smell the bullshit and I don't think I have to say what "inner city" means... Others and myself briefly attempted to interact with him (always a mistake) but there is no winning. The thread keeps getting bumped sometimes multiple times a day by him dumping news stories of "inner city" crime/violence.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:29 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
There is an old racist on there. Imagine Zen, but worse and will never be banned for reasons unknown. He made a thread roughly a week ago about "Inner City Culture". I'm sure many can already smell the bullshit and I don't think I have to say what "inner city" means... Others and myself briefly attempted to interact with him (always a mistake) but there is no winning. The thread keeps getting bumped sometimes multiple times a day by him dumping news stories of "inner city" crime/violence.


Dunno if this'll make you feel better, but it may give some clarity on what's going on. I've seen it happen in other forums:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P55t6eryY3g
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:13 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
The thread keeps getting bumped sometimes multiple times a day by him dumping news stories of "inner city" crime/violence.

And if you attempt to respond in kind with accounts of far-right and/or white supremacist extremist acts be prepared for completely good-faith and self-aware accusations of "cherry picking". :roll:
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:29 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
The thread keeps getting bumped sometimes multiple times a day by him dumping news stories of "inner city" crime/violence.

And if you attempt to respond in kind with accounts of far-right and/or white supremacist extremist acts be prepared for completely good-faith and self-aware accusations of "cherry picking". :roll:


Everything is out of the playbook here for sure. I'm going to spoiler this because I'm putting in a lot of direct quotes and they are pretty bad.

Spoiler: show
"Weird. Black rappers always seem to be in the middle of this stuff. And shot by their bruthas. Hard to fathom. Rock and rollers? Not so much."

Blatant racism.

"Sick, perverted culture of violence. No morals. No parents. No faith to guide them."

Ah yes, it's jeebus that is needed.

And like I said, one user pointed out early in the thread that it has everything to do with economics and nothing to do with skin color. Masterfully ignored.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, this was posted in response to someone bringing up an article where a white person attacked a Mexican because they were Mexican.

"Thanks for the link. It highlights how few incidents of that sort of stuff actually occurs in a country of 327 million people. It helps demonstrate how the nightly slaughter in our inner cities is much different than isolated violence."

So yeah, cherry picking basically nailed it.

In case there were any doubts about his political leanings.

"Leftists don’t want us to be able to defend ourselves with our guns.

Why vote for Trump? Why can I vote for a guy that personally turns my stomach? One of the reasons - Because he won’t do that. Warren, Bernie, et. al. - they will.

Policy over personality."

Pretending to care here

"Odd, but the white kids in poor areas aren’t shooting each other at alarming rates. No roving white gangs.

Does anyone really care about these black deaths? Dems only use it to attack gun ownership. Republicans ignore it. Aren’t these lives equal to those in white suburbia?"

Everyone has just been ignoring him and the thread the last few days, so maybe he will just get bored...


@MM: I'll check that out when I have the time.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:22 pm 


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Happy New Year you fuks! I hope for you all to... fuck alot in 2020 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:43 pm 


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^ :lol:

"I hope you fuck a lot this year" will be my standard well-wishing message from now on :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:38 pm 


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:mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:16 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Happy New Year you fuks! I hope for you all to... fuck alot in 2020 8)


Is your mum still available this year or.. ?
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:24 am 


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As much as I can't stand Mike Matei, at least he's on the right side of this "debate". I don't care if he's "cheated" in the past - it's not like he's claiming official world records or whatever. I've cheated plenty of times, the difference is in whether you recognize that you cheated (even if you still don't admit it).
The question here though is why is it even a debate?

As much as I hate seeing that twitter thread, I think this screencap sums up the aggrevating situation very well, and the approach I keep running into everywhere, that's hard to grasp:

Image

First of all - it's just video games, no one should get riled up about shit like this. But in the context of video games there's nothing wrong with caring about what's probably the most central thing about them - How they are played, and getting enjoyment from them.

With that out of the way, it pains me that people actually believe so hard in what they are saying. That having some sort of consequence for failing in a video game is archaic, bad design, "fake difficulty", etc.
Why the hell are you even playing a game which is about succesfully completing an action (jumping a hole, defeating an enemy, etc.) if you don't want it to make a difference whether you do complete said action or not?
I kiiiiiind of get it if you've grown up playing only modern game with a focus on story and setpieces, and barely any action gameplay. I'm sure it makes it hard to grasp the idea of a pure action game. But I get this approach more often from people of my own generation who feel like they are too adult and busy and kids-having to sit down and spend time on playing any single stage of an old-school game more than once.


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:38 am 


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SEE SUMEZ, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE WRONG. *dusts off the gloves*

Nah this whole accessibility bullshit gets to me. In a modern all-inclusive world you cannot allow a game to have challenge because that's gatekeeping.

Also the semantic arguments are annoying. I know someone who refuses to budge from claiming to have 'beaten' a shmup, despite credit feeding the entire thing. Where is the act of beating occuring?
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:47 am 


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The difference between completing and beating is worth recognizing.


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:49 am 



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Sumez wrote:
I'm sure it makes it hard to grasp the idea of a pure action game. But I get this approach more often from people of my own generation who feel like they are too adult and busy and kids-having to sit down and spend time on playing any single stage of an old-school game more than once.



Please forgive me for the selective remark, but I will never believe that you've never shouted at the screen something like "enough, you stupid dinosaur game! I don't have time for this, let me win without making a fuss!" :lol:



...as someone who is in academia, I am witnessing an inordinate amount of young'uns who seem hard-wired with ridiculous levels of entitlement, ultimately boiling down to a pure consumeristic attitude: "I paid for this, so I want to purchase a result without an effort".

I found the attitude to be present in various amounts across different generations (I do teach across different age groups), because consumerism is certainly not a new phenomenon, and this seems to hold across different countries, from what I have seen. I have been going around a bit, so to speak.

I would go on and say that all these rants about what counts as cheating and whatnot are related to what counts as obtaining vs. purchasing a result. There is also much more at stake (say, gate-keeping as a mechanism of defining in-group vs. out-group), but I think that Kitten and everyone else have discussed the matter in a rather appropriate manner.


Also: @Ed: deal! Can we get some unmotivated capital punishment for the offenders? :wink:

@6t8k: I would say that pathological procrastination is an Asian malaise, but I should probably shut up, as an Italian. I lived and worked in Germanic countries, so I picked up the healthy habit of completing task on time and in an orderly fashion. I even received complaints about this :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:39 pm 


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It's this meme all over again .. :lol:

Also, actually trying to play a game while constantly hammering the rewind button looks really annoying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dze5dWLSF8


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:49 pm 


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Wow, even in the comments to that video.


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:19 pm 


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I always thought Volgarr the Viking had the best trailer for communicating THIS IS HOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PLAY OUR GAME, NEWBS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN9mKr_O2og

On a similar note, I want to say nobody is a "master" of Tetris if you're playing one of the versions that allows you to "hold" an inconvenient piece. Damn kids.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:25 pm 


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Udderdude wrote:
It's this meme all over again .. :lol:

Also, actually trying to play a game while constantly hammering the rewind button looks really annoying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dze5dWLSF8


SEE, I CAN BEAT IT!!
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:54 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
On a similar note, I want to say nobody is a "master" of Tetris if you're playing one of the versions that allows you to "hold" an inconvenient piece. Damn kids.


NES Tetris forever.

Blinge wrote:
Udderdude wrote:
It's this meme all over again .. :lol:

Also, actually trying to play a game while constantly hammering the rewind button looks really annoying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dze5dWLSF8


SEE, I CAN BEAT IT!!


L o fuckin l.

Rando brings up a good point about I paid for this so I shouldn't have to expend any effort. Seems to be the prevalent attitude now.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:55 pm 


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RESURRECTION!!

for posterity.
https://youtu.be/sAXJX2XK9rQ

lmfao
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:57 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
On a similar note, I want to say nobody is a "master" of Tetris if you're playing one of the versions that allows you to "hold" an inconvenient piece. Damn kids.

<3

I'm kind of active in the Tetris community/communities (you won't believe how fractured a community based around an abstract game of tesselating geometric shapes can get), and this is obviously a recurring topic. Surprisingly, a vast majority of people playing Tetris nowadays are relative newcomers who grew up with versions that have the hold button, so to them not having it is the unfamiliar thing.

Me facetiously calling the hold button "cheating" has become a bit of a habit, but to play the devil's advocate I do see the relevance of the feature. As famous tetris-scholar Kitaru counter-argued when he thought I was serious about it, the hold feature is more of a strategic reordering of the pieces, than a crutch helping you dealing with "inconcenient pieces".
I guess think of it like kakusei in Espgaluda or bombing in Garegga. You can use it as a crutch to survive, but doing so will forego the ability to allow more aggressive play with more risky strategies and bigger rewards.
Its natural home is modern guideline based Tetris games which are designed entirely for versus-games, and different variations of T-spin setups, etc. are used to more effectively send lines to the opponent. But even in single-player Tetris, TGM3 uses it to demand more flawless and consistent play, reaching much higher speeds than the previous games in the series.

That said, however, I think it really just creates two entirely different games. And one of them is possibly my favourite game of all time, while I really don't care at all for the other.
In my perspective, the core puzzle of Tetris is all about being able to constantly deal with whatever bullshit you are given, and no easy way out. At any given moment you might be able to receive any of 7 different viable pieces, and playing well is centered around constantly being prepared for either of them. I don't want survival to be given, I want it to be the primary challenge, moreso than anything else.

Hell, the hold button is just of several aspects included in the current modern Tetris guidelines, and it's not even the worst. Consider stuff like 7-bag, SRS kicks, multiple previews, and move reset. All terrible additions to the game if you ask me, and all official games are forced to have it.


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:05 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
RESURRECTION!!

for posterity.
https://youtu.be/sAXJX2XK9rQ

lmfao


Lol wtf. How old is this video?
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:14 pm 


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Steamflogz that was a former member, a one atheistgod99

Ahahah. I found it!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53088&p=1197068&hilit=+yellow+devil+#p1197068

the TV under the table still gets me :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:22 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Steamflogz that was a former member, a one atheistgod99

Ahahah. I found it!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53088&p=1197068&hilit=+yellow+devil+#p1197068

the TV under the table still gets me :lol:


Great thread.

TV on the floor is so trashy.

An aside: checked your youtube channel. What a cutey playing guitar wow. :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:32 pm 


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Lol, I can't tell if I've seen that video before and forgotten it, but (re?)watching it I can't help the feeling that AG99 was actually just an incredibly well crafted troll account.

EDIT: I wish I could remember what he got banned for. He managed to edit the post away. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:19 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Nah this whole accessibility bullshit gets to me. In a modern all-inclusive world you cannot allow a game to have challenge because that's gatekeeping.

Also the semantic arguments are annoying. I know someone who refuses to budge from claiming to have 'beaten' a shmup, despite credit feeding the entire thing. Where is the act of beating occuring?


mashing that insert credit/start button every 10 seconds takes some serious skill :V

I agree that games have to retain a measure of challenge, otherwise there isn't really a game involved, it's just a glorified semi-interactive movie where your actions have no real impact. That being said, I do believe all games should have Judgement Silversword style unlockable cheats so players who really can't get through the game legitimately can toggle them if they just want to see everything or can't unlock stuff normally (if beating the game with a 1CC unlocks something, etc). That way players who aren't skilled enough to do it legitimately don't have to feel like they miss out on seeing all the content in the game (usually an invulnerability cheat that doesn't deny unlocking stuff or seeing the entire story is enough, for platformers you might also need something like that cheat in Mega Man 3 where you can jump out of pits).

Sumez wrote:
Surprisingly, a vast majority of people playing Tetris nowadays are relative newcomers who grew up with versions that have the hold button, so to them not having it is the unfamiliar thing.


Really? I thought everyone was nuts for the NES version of Tetris and the TGM versions are relatively unknown by comparison. At least that's the impression I get from tournaments, but I suppose an NES is a lot easier to setup for a tourney than an actual PCB but maybe it's part of that.

Quote:
I guess think of it like kakusei in Espgaluda or bombing in Garegga. You can use it as a crutch to survive, but doing so will forego the ability to allow more aggressive play with more risky strategies and bigger rewards.


This is an apt comparison. I prefer the modernized arcade games over the older NES game, but I can see the charm of not having a hold button as a limitation. Having played through stuff like Giga Wing without reflect and Espgaluda without Kakusei, it helps you appreciate those abilities more when you don't have them, and appreciate how capable the player character is without them.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:27 pm 


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PRGE also has TGM tournaments and a bunch of Tetris tournaments in general. The NES one is what everyone cares about and gets the pub though.
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:52 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:

An aside: checked your youtube channel. What a cutey playing guitar wow. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:59 pm 


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UWUUUUUUUU
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:09 pm 


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I'd argue this crosses over the line to be more than "little" but DJ Durkin is employed by a college football program again. I don't expect most of shmups farm to have much knowledge of American sports so here are the cliffs notes: football coach that basically killed a kid.

Not cliffs notes: https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -dj-durkin
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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:51 pm 


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Most modern games have super-easy modes as a concession to accessibility and (notably given the narrative focus in modern gaming) I think that's the right way to handle it, as is putting rewind in retro re-releases. It's a neat "let's get through this" for anyone wanting a quick blast or a natural extension of save states for practice (let's not go there AGAIN :D). It's no more "beating the game" than only clearing something with a tonne of Action Replay codes enabled. But you can quickly get up to speed with sections of the game that you might have to fight through 45 mins of "this is easy" to get around to attempting it again, and that's pretty key in making retro accessible when there are SO MANY games out there worth playing (and cheap/naughty free). But you only beat the damn thing if you didn't use: cheat codes, glitching, save state scumming, rewind - this is not new, it's just the level select cheat of the modern age.

I like what Shadow of the Tomb Raider went for, in offering customisable difficulty for different aspects of the game, even if the game is too broken for it to make much difference. Dial up the combat but make the puzzles easier to get through, if murder is your thing (like the 2013 reboot taught you it absolutely should be). Or plough through goons to get to the bit where you stand in a dark room and don't even get Lara talking to herself to help you out. It's your choice and that's the key, letting you work out what's for you.

For the most part devs don't think about difficulty settings but they really should. It's always just scaling your health vs. enemy health (and usually in a non-linear "piss easy -> meh -> masochists only" scale) when there's the chance to do so much more. You can lead a novice player towards "normal" difficulty by having fewer enemies that are just as threatening, so it's not just a slaughterfest that does nothing to prepare them for the real game (see also: CAVE novice modes). But make hard a fun challenge (more/remixed enemies, better AI) instead of "lol now everything takes forever to dispose of and insta-kills you".

Damn, I want to play MD Mercs on the hidden exploding everything difficulty now.


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 Post subject: Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:21 am 


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Aww man. poor AG99. I hope he's okay, I don't wish no harm on him. but damn...

Sumez wrote:
Lol, I can't tell if I've seen that video before and forgotten it, but (re?)watching it I can't help the feeling that AG99 was actually just an incredibly well crafted troll account.

EDIT: I wish I could remember what he got banned for. He managed to edit the post away. :(

mabes. not impossible. but I'd tend to go with the genuine option myself

if it was all a work tho and he created this disfunctional character and stayed with it all this time non-stop then... my hats off to him, really. that'd be masterful trolling of the highest-level. truly GOD tier (pardon the pun :lol: )
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