Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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BIL
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

Post by BIL »

We need something between cantankerous "GET OFFA MA LAWN" Little Annoyed Hell and hippy love-in Made Me Smile. Because some of the most abject dumbasses (see the Youtube screencaps, last page or so) make me all
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It made me schadenfreude? >:3 Then again I'm sure if I had to interact with these noobs beyond the odd YT snipe I'd go full Little Annoyed Exterminatus on their asses, so maybe not.

BREAKING

i) I've just been informed that POW Armor is cool, he is Earth forces technology and didn't mean to ram deep into my ass ruining the 2-ALL nomiss.

ii) I can't find anything (in English) about BGR-44's supposed falsificare woes. Something about Xevious 3D/G? Hmm.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

orange808 wrote:Absolute amateurs. Probably watched Storage Wars one too many times. :)
Definitely. I've never been into it myself but I have a buddy that is. He said that show definitely hurt his profits. Everyone is an "expert" now.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

Post by kitten »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:And that's OK! Just put a disclaimer on the video or a note in the description that it's a tool-assisted playthrough for the purposes of showing a complete run through the game, and isn't necessarily representative of how a skilled player would run through the game.
^ steamflogger, this. apologies ahead of time for the long-winded rant, just skip to the last paragraph if it's tl;dr.

it's the complete and total lack of transparency and honesty that really, really gets to me. in a surprising number of cases, my runs on a game i have on my youtube channel are the only legitimate run of the game i can find on youtube, at all (and very frequently the only one captured off actual hardware). for something like hiho densetsu, the only other run i could find - cheated or not - had been uploaded within the last year, and it was by a japanese player (Zetuei Retro Games) who 1. had unnaturally streamlined play, 2. had an incredible volume of these games all with effortless nomiss runs on their channel, 3. had zero commentary on the substance of the game or any interesting parts of the run, and 4. had totally indiscriminate taste with no obvious specialty. all these factors highly suggest they just pop stuff into the emulator, bang out a heavily tool-assisted run, and then upload it - only, of course, there's no mention it's tool-assisted.

usually i watch a few key portions of videos by a person like this until i'm completely dead certain (world of longplays, shadowserg, nintendocomplete, saikyomog, heroes of xanadu sloth, etc. - all names that come up frequently on YT searches for runs of classic games) they're cheating, but in this case i was so tired of it i just skimmed the channel and skipped around the hiho densetsu video and felt there was almost no way it could be anything else. none of them say their runs are cheated, many subtly suggest they're legitimate, and dipasses like nintendocomplete explictly state "no cheats" - which is a brazen lie. this leads to a state of really dull player awareness and many confused players being put off a game because when comparing strategies, they see the runner do something that seems to require almost impossible luck or prescience.

one of the biggest indicators you're watching a save-stated run in classic action games is in choke points like boss fights, because the player will take nonsensical risks against patterns with a degree of randomness and never suffer the consequences. a common thread in a lot of these runs is the player taking lazy, stupid hits during the stage and then becoming a total savant at the game during the boss when they're low on health and actually forced to push the rewind button. keep in mind this is remarkably different than an experienced player tanking hits to continue blowing through a stage when they know they'll still be in a safe range for their usual performance on the boss.

a huge motivation for me having started doing recordings is because of the absence of actual runs of many games. i found myself constantly wanting to watch demonstrative plays by actual players who had gotten an efficient run of the game down, and they just didn't exist. it was really frustrating, but more than that, it felt depressing. what did other people like me out there have to compare their runs to? how many people out there are watching cheated runs and losing the ability to discern between real and tool-assisted play? with the accessibility of emulation tools, the articles from every direction spouting that arcade culture is toxic/worthless/antiquated and should be cheated through if played at all, and the total ubiquity of cheated plays on youtube, where the hell does one go to watch someone just play these games well?

if you're lucky and the game was popular back in the day and it's not a shmup (because fuck autoscrollers, am i right?), there's probably a GDQ run or replays up on speedrun site archives - but speedruns very, very frequently gloss over a lot of the substance of a game and many of these games don't have speedruns done for them, anyway. there's also a problem with speedrunning being growingly seen as the idyllic way to exercise skill in a game, which leads to absurdities like ocarina of time being seen as one of the greatest coliseums in retro gaming for a high skill ceiling and interestingly technical play to be exercised. while speedruns are often fun to watch and do demonstrate some kind of skill (sometimes really impressively), many are extremely boring or repetitive to actually play and i feel like they turn gaming into a spectating event that fuels the divide that makes most people think they're just not suited for tough games.

i really feel like when you punch a classic game's name into youtube, the very first result should be a full play of the game by someone who has pared it down to an efficient run. instead, it's usually by world of longplays or a variety of other tool-abusing channels, and you don't even get so much as a blurb in the description that it's tool-assisted. i really feel like the misinformation is insidious and in most cases totally unquestioned. what makes it extra painful is that with tools, it's not that much work to simulate an actual, efficient run with just a little bit of research or practice on efficient strategies, but people don't even put that level of effort in. it's very frequent that my uploaded runs are also faster than people bumbling through with tools! with my most recent scrolling action upload - ankoku densetsu (e.g. the legendary axe II) - the run is almost 10 minutes faster than most (25m total), which is a hugely substantial amount of time. i just. eugh. it drives me nuts!

i don't feel like "this run was assisted by usage of emulator tools" is at all a difficult thing to put in the description of a video, but so, so, so many people out there have these as their primary source of information for classic games and don't even know how emulator tools work - or that you could even save replays that don't show you abusing the tools. it feels like some cynical dark ages shit that in an age with information this immediately accessible that the primary or only video resource for any single classic game be someone playing it for their very first time and just hitting the rewind button on every mistake without even telling you that is what is happening. do these games deserve that little respect? it's not just the poor material available but the prevalence of the mentality not to bother correcting it that really gets me. things could be so, so better.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Heh, I will almost always read posts that long if someone takes the time to make them to explain their feelings to me. It's really only fair.

I appreciate the people that put out legitimate runs like yourself. I think that is MUCH more useful than watching a TAS and not being able to glean useful gameplay information from it.

I was wondering in all of this where is the damage to the gaming community, and your second paragraph states it succinctly. Pushing people away from old games because people don't understand the reality of the situation is a big negative. The no cheats line really hammers it too, that's totally weak.

Did you check speedrun for runs? Anyone that submits one there has to submit the footage. Some stuff is only still on twitch, which is hard to search outside of looking on speedrun. Doesn't have to just be GDQ. I know a few speedrunners in particular that will actually talk about the gameplay while running a game. I would agree though that speedrunning is very different than a normal run. If there are bugs people will find them and the crap in stuff like OoT and Super Mario 64 is particularly dumb. Does it require skill to execute? Absolutely. Is it interesting to watch or even really *playing* the game? Opinions on that will vary...

After reading the two passionate responses I understand why you guys want them to be labeled as TAS runs.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Steamflogger Boss wrote:Did you check speedrun for runs?
i do, occasionally. was really useful for when i was playing tonma, which i pared down to what would pretty comfortably be 2nd place on there. i think that's a kind of rare instance where the speedrun still fights everything in a fun way that jives largely jives with the intended way to tackle the game, but it does tread over some interesting parts and have a couple strategies so efficient on bosses it takes the fun of 'em out.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

kitten wrote:none of them say their runs are cheated, many subtly suggest they're legitimate, and dipasses like nintendocomplete explictly state "no cheats" - which is a brazen lie.
It's really only "no cheats" if they're using it in the limited sense to define cheating as using codes or hacks that allow you to do normally impossible things such as with an invulnerability or infinite ammo cheat would. Using savestates and slowdown to complete a game still absolutely count as a form of cheating, just one that's different in the sense that the footage you get from recording a tool-assisted run is all theoretically doable, but only doable in the sense that you'd need to be a robot capable of perfect reaction times and frame-precise.
kitten wrote:i think that's a kind of rare instance where the speedrun still fights everything in a fun way that jives largely jives with the intended way to tackle the game, but it does tread over some interesting parts and have a couple strategies so efficient on bosses it takes the fun of 'em out.
That's one of the reasons I'm a bit sad that speedrunning is the current modern fad. I mean, I understand why that's the case - you get the visceral satisfaction of seeing the game "beaten" quickly but often it's not even the entire game you get to see and a lot of stuff gets skipped over for the sake of speed. I think a slower, more skillful run can be a lot more interesting where the player sometimes stops to show an unusual oddity or whatnot, but in terms of a metric for "who is good at a game" it's a lot harder to judge overall as opposed to completion speed, a quantifiable metric. And the modern adoration of speedrunning as The One True Way To Play games also means that score play or consistent survival play demonstrations are far less popular. Indeed, many live speedruns boil down to the player making risky attempts and simply restarting quickly when they die. It's far more interesting to me to see someone who is able to demonstrate consistently safe strategies to get through a game in something like a platformer rather than trying to rush through but constantly taking risks.

In that sense I actually prefer tool-assisted speedruns over live ones - if I'm gonna see the game done quickly and with potential amusing glitches exploited, it's nice to see the game beaten as quickly as theoretically possible. And speedrunning isn't even necessarily a sign of overall skill with a game either. I've seen people attempt to speedrun stuff like Bayonetta where you essentially just spam charged Durga Fire kicks with PPPKKK all day long and even then the people livestreaming aren't necessarily actually taking advantage of more advanced stuff like lock-on Shuraba Tetsuzanko sniping to quickly finish off distant enemies, etc, or are speedrunning the game before they've even done the harder difficulties, or challenged the insanely fun (and long) secret chapter, the superboss, etc. In a game with such a fun and varied set of weapons that's got such stylish play it's a shame to reduce it down to one or two optimal attacks instead of learning and showcasing what the combo system has to offer.

It's nice that the shmups community in general is a lot better about recognizing skill play that doesn't necessarily involve speed as the main metric, but vast majority of attention out there for gaming in terms of events seems to go to speedrunning, when it isn't PvP or VS games.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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I've lots of respect for speedrunners, and I tend to consult their notes for technical data, but the only games I really enjoy seeing run are those where slop is inherently punished. Castlevania: Bloodlines, Revenge of Shinobi and The Ninja Warriors Again are all good stuff played at maximum speed, since you need to demolish the stages with absolute minimum damage taken... which is what the games are built for anyway!

Obviously sometimes bumpier play is an artform in itself, much like that Garegga superplayer might seem to be slumming it until you try copying him and the game curb-stomps you into next month. Funkdoc's GDQ2013 Castlevania IV run is masterful.

Ninja Spirit's PCE mode is a joke by comparison, didn't enjoy that one at all. Tanking through the last boss's salvos, lame.

Double Dragon Advance's AI doesn't appreciate being ignored. :lol:
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Lots of respect for speedrunners, and I tend to consult their notes for technical insight,
Agreed, one of the best aspects of tool-assisted speedrunning is that there is a massive wealth of information available in terms of the nitty-gritty in how games operate that often is really helpful to live play. There's tons of games on TASVideos with detailed notes on how things work that I often find super helpful and pertinent for learning a game even if I'm not speedrunning it.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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oh my god this run is embarrassing

- -

watching this same guy's bc09 run, right now. plays really well! buncha stuff you can't do on console because of performance. that game is a huge personal favorite and really unfairly hated, imho. early in the run he talks about the shotgun & grenade launcher possibly having their model swapped in-game, which is definitely not the case, though i guess i can see why one might think that since the shotgun in the game is a big, bulky thing with a revolving magazine. i assume the aa-9 in its title is a reference to the actual aa-12 shotgun, which you often see depicted with a big ol drum mag.

specifically says the grenade launcher "doesn't look like a grenade launcher" and gets backed up by his couch (they bring this up a couple of times as a joke), even though it looks a hell of a lot like an m79 or even more like a china lake. i mean, the china lake is kind of obscure, but not knowing an m79 feels weird to me :[ ain't you kids ever watched terminator 2???
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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A friend of mine just got return scammed on eBay through a GSP sale. On the bright side they technically committed international mail fraud on the return so this might get interesting.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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This run of SideLine marked as a "longplay" that doesn't actually complete the game (runs outta credits on first phase of final boss), and inexplicably has a floating mouse cursor on screen over the entire time. More bemusing than truly annoying.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Amazon's trash ass cheapskate new couriers. Never thought I'd say this but give me fuckin UPS any day over this horse shit.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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People ostentatiously humming, cooing and generally colour-commentating themselves to nobody in particular, in library within earshot.

No matter how distracted, I don't wanna be that prick who says "THIS IS RIBRARY." 3;< (no offense to actual ribary dude, he own)

Related, forgetting my earbuds when I have to work somewhere with said hummers.

Also, unrelated, an eternal torment.

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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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I complain to my doctor that I'm bothered by strong coughing. He recommends me a medicine that makes it even stronger.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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I almost never go to a doctor. Waste of time and money.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Funny, I just watched one of those Reddit videos about getting a second opinion when patients didn't feel they were properly diagnosed. Let's just say that some symptoms that were dismissed as pneumonia and possible kidney stones ended up being an autoimmune disease and ruptured appendix or spleen.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Steamflogger Boss wrote:I almost never go to a doctor. Waste of time and money.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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When you are having an online discussion, and someone brings up some kind of concept I don't know of - an organization, a game, an community, a piece of technology, whatever - and in the interest of actually following along with the discourse, I (or anyone else) ask what it is, and they just respond with a link to a wikipedia article, official website, etc. Or even worse, shame people for not being able to google on their own.

Like, if you're bringing up the thing, at least be ready to use a few words to outline what it is and describe its relevance in the current context. And if you think I need to know more, at least try to sell it.
If I am intrigued enough to want to know more I'll do the research, but don't expect me to go into detective mode for something I have zero initial investment in.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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In the same fashion people who use way too many acronyms, for every damn thing and discussion topic, it's abuse and they force you to ask. :x

(Or the full name is written just once somewhere within a long discussion, then it goes on for pages only using the acronym, and you're like 'what and where the fuck?')

And to finish a farm specific: posting the pic of a random pcb without naming the game in the 'cool things you just bought' thread. *middlefinger* :evil:
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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I completely agree with the first part, but obviously I'm guilty of the "PCB with no name", which is of course a totally intentionally douchy move.
I try to take pictures that leave in enough details to hint at exactly which the game in question is, and enjoy seeing if people are familiar enough to figure it out. I only do this because I actually enjoy that kind of detective work myself.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Sumez wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:I almost never go to a doctor. Waste of time and money.
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Don't get me started bro...
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Sumez wrote:I completely agree with the first part, but obviously I'm guilty of the "PCB with no name", which is of course a totally intentionally douchy move.
I try to take pictures that leave in enough details to hint at exactly which the game in question is, and enjoy seeing if people are familiar enough to figure it out. I only do this because I actually enjoy that kind of detective work myself.
Actually weren't thinking of you specifically lol (didn't notice you posted one recently).
It's just something that I've always found extremely stupid and irritating on this forum, probably the shittiest 'farm tradiditon' after the politics threads. :twisted:
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Hell yeah the acronyms, this winds me up on a daily basis because it's a business staple - just assuming everyone is in your little bubble.... or that if they don't know the acronym, their existence is unimportant. Especially when it's in no way unique - hello GOW. My brain gives a default translation of oh fuck off.

Also: random Japanese names for Western localised and popular games. I love you BIL, but my brain struggles with those Shinobi sequels and I have no idea what magic it peforms whenever I see whatever the hell the Japanese title is for Mercs :D But hey, at least it's written using the Latin alphabet....

Pair the two by referring to Streets of Rage as BK. Stop making me hungry.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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If it's any consolation I swear I don't do it to be an Elitist Prick™. Image :lol: It's strictly business! The business of differentiation. :cool: Splatterhouse III? That noob K.LOBB screwed up its BOMBA balance (someone did, at any rate). Splatterhouse Part 3? Now we're talking, time to bust some fuckin heads with precision ultravaiorence. Image Why's this Ghouls n' Ghosts way the hell harder than you remember? Is actually Daimakaimuira. Image

If it's something with no real regional difference like Contra III I'll tend to use that, even if it's not what's on my shelf. I ain't calling it Probotector though. I don't protect robots! I shoot the fuckers! Image :wink:

TBH I was aghast to learn The Revenge of Shinobi was "The Super Shinobi" in Japan, the former being one of the chief ruiners of my preteen boy brain. Makes total sense though. TSS (no not Twinkle Star Sprites!) is clearly its own sub-series, followed up by TSS2. "Revenge" makes it sound like a sequel to the AC game, and "III" cements the impression. I think it's worth distinguishing the stripped-down, deadly-unforgiving AC line from the more showpiece-oriented doublejumps, lifebars & command moves "Super" one.

(Little Annoyed Hell GAIDEN: I wish Shin Shinobi Den had been called The Super Shinobi III - because fugly aesthetic aside, that is sure as shit what it is!)
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Got a fun one... People that drive massive vehicles but then...they can't really handle driving/parking them. In a parking lot today there was a large van parked diagonally across two spaces. Like wtf.

Then just something funny. I was in the self checkout area and another guy also using the self checkout started talking about how it was taking jobs away from people. I lol'd.

Gotta agree with BIL that regional difficulty differences can make them to be like two different games. Ninja Gaiden III? Props for 1CCing that one. Ninja Ryukenden III: Yomi no Hakobune? Eh, anyone can do it.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

Post by Xyga »

Steamflogger Boss wrote:Got a fun one... People that drive massive vehicles but then...they can't really handle driving/parking them.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

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Steamflogger Boss wrote:Got a fun one... People that drive massive vehicles but then...they can't really handle driving/parking them. In a parking lot today there was a large van parked diagonally across two spaces. Like wtf.

Then just something funny. I was in the self checkout area and another guy also using the self checkout started talking about how it was taking jobs away from people. I lol'd.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

Post by BulletMagnet »

Time to triple up on the red white and blue with Binding Arbitration Clauses: just encountered yet another one on a game I picked up (and after waiting over an hour for updates to download), so back to the store it goes.
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Re: Little things that annoy the hell out of you

Post by Xyga »

Millions of administration and law workers paid because they're certified qualified for the job...not a single one can make a fucking pdf.

punk ass bitches

EDIT: also people who give the cold shoulder / silent treatment for fucking nothing, no explanation, not the balls to speak their heart, talk with/confront people.
So easy, no risk of being wrong and realize maybe you're being an ass, eh?
Well whever you are if you do that you're just a pathetic worm.
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