Silent Hill (Spoilers, All Series)

[BIL]

The amusement park is actually in the right place. SH1 took place north of Toluca lake (Old Silent Hill, the shopping district and the resort area), SH2 took place south of it (South Vale, Paleville) until James rows across to reach the Lakeview, which is right next to the amusement park and lighthouse. I always love how when James remarks on the hotel being just like he recalled, he's literally standing across the road from the site of SH1's most cataclysmic events at the amusement park and lighthouse. Lovely sense of mundane consistency connecting the games' events on the other side.

SH3's problem is, besides the south side having no significance to its story, it doesn't even let you make the trip along Nathan avenue, cementing the rushjob feel. It'd have been cool to casually cross the bridge where James found an obliterated chasm.

re: the Memory of Alessa, there's a really simple trick to destroying it without hassle. It'll only use melee attacks when near Heather, so for the machinegun and pistol forms just stay in close and block. Ditto for the pipe and knife forms. Such an awesome spectacle, that fight... certainly among the most spectacular audiovisual shows on the PS2. I love the horridly soulless "arghhhh" it makes when a form is destroyed, too.

[Op Intensify]

Fine then. Just realize that Homecoming sucked so bad, its Japanese release was canceled.

but I'm doing them all.

Including the upcoming Vita multiplayer action game from WayForward?

[njiska]

Fine then. Just realize that Homecoming sucked so bad, its Japanese release was canceled.

but I'm doing them all.

Including the upcoming Vita multiplayer action game from WayForward?

The rules I set for myself are that I must play every main series game, same rule I used for my Mega Man marathon, so by virtue of being a side-story I don't have to play it. That said I probably would play it, if it weren't for the fact I don't own a Vita. So no, I won't be playing that one. When I get the the Resident Evil part of my Survival Horror Marathon I won't be playing games like Outbreak or Dead Aim, but will have to replay shit like RE5.

And yeah, I realize that the western developed games aren't great, but that's kind of the whole point of this. When I do a gaming marathon I want to try and experience to full series, both the good and the bad. That way I gain a greater value from what was done right and a better understanding for where things went wrong.

[BIL]

Knew I'd left this somewhere. Neat map displaying the geography of the KCET games' town, which actually does a more respectable job than the official Lost Memories version (that only covers SH2/3's map, with SH1's area inset).

http://guy-onthe-couch.deviantart.com/a ... -101671111



Doesn't include the outsources, luckily. Piling more and more real estate into a supposed obscure resort town instead of just using it more sparingly like SH3/4 did is retarded.

[njiska]

That is pretty. It's also huge.

Since this thread is going good, I did want to ask, what do you guys consider to be the worst ending of Silent Hill 2? I mean Leave can be pretty much universally interpreted as good and "In Water" is universally bad, but I can't decide where "Maria" falls. On the one hand James gets the kind of woman he wants, but on the other he hasn't learned anything and it's heavily implied that Maria is sick like Mary was. To me that's a hell of a lot cruel existence than to just drive off and drown, but I'd like others thoughts.

[BIL]

"Leave" and "In Water" are the escape endings. The former is the only positive outcome for James, in that he has some chance of moving on with his life free of obsession and guilt. Whether it's truly a good ending is like much of SH2's story quite subjective. It could also be interpreted as a criminal walking free of punishment. I take the view that he failed under extremely difficult circumstances, desperately regretted it, and demonstrated he was a man worth giving a second chance. So I consider him to have earned it. It'll certainly be a harder path than indulging himself with oblivion as he does in "Water," which is technically the least productive outcome (Jimmy's dead, game over) but quite arguably not the most horrible.

"Maria" will return James to square one, at best. She's obviously headed for the same agonising terminal illness as Mary's (regardless of whether James believes he can "cure" her, is in denial, or just doesn't care and wants short-term gratification). That's not even considering her proven murderous streak when rejected.

"Rebirth" involves screwing about with the town's indigenous beliefs. Even if you interpret the various "gods" of the series as merely further monsters manifested from the human mind, like I do, they are still extremely dangerous to toy with, as SH1's climactic bloodbath demonstrates. On balance I don't see James's amateur necromancy going well, and given how merciless his otherworld has shown itself to be, certainly not reuniting him with Mary no strings attached. Even if nothing happens at all, he's still immersed in morbid obsession to an even greater degree than he was at the games's outset.

Both of these endings set James up for even worse nightmares than the one he's just lived through. "In Water" is an escape much like "Leave," just a far more self-indulgent one.

[njiska]

Just started The Room. Dear god do I miss my tank controls and not being raped to death by ghost vision. I seem to remember the game not being this shit.

[trap15]

Started replaying the first game last night with some friends. So good. Harry > James, any day of the week

[Marc]

God the combat in 1 is clunky. It help the feeling of immersion - the unprepared everyman stuck in a horrible nightmare - but it's not half frustrating for the player at times

[njiska]

God the combat in 1 is clunky. It help the feeling of immersion - the unprepared everyman stuck in a horrible nightmare - but it's not half frustrating for the player at times

It's still a thousand times less clunky than SH4. Fighting these jackals is giving me a head ache. An ache that is then raped by ghost vision.

[BIL]

It's still a thousand times less clunky than SH4. Fighting these jackals is giving me a head ache.

Not at all. SH4, for all its design flaws and production shortcuts, has easily the smoothest combat of the four games. Lots of invincible frames to exploit. Not to mention that you shouldn't be fighting sniffer dogs at all, early in the game, but sneaking past them. They'll ignore you as long as you don't run or get too close. If you have to fight one, let it walk into your striking range, floor it with a flurry of light hits, stomp on it and walk away while any others in the area flock over to cannibalise it.

The first three games' melee weapons are generally useless with one major exception each, which make all others obsolete with firearms taking up the slack (SH1's Emergency Hammer, SH2's Iron Pipe and SH3's Katana). SH4 has its better weapons too but even its worst are more workable than the best of SH1-3's, and guns are a mere convenience rather than a necessity.

Unfortunately, SH4 requires at least a couple playthroughs' familiarity to avoid aggravation. Once you know what monsters to fight/avoid, what items to take/leave, how to minimise transit between 302 and outside, how to manage AI and where to use anti-ghost items, it's a surprisingly fast-paced and satisfying game. At this point in my relationship with it I have a blast basking in the customarily rich KCET production while smacking baddies, trapping ghosts and herding the AI about.

Played blind or unfamiliar, though, and it's even more awkward than typical survival horror. If the story, atmosphere and settings don't interest you, the pace-straining second loop will probably kill the game.

Still, I'd take more flawed, experimental but original sequels like SH4 over the bland rehashing of SHO and SHH, the irrelevance of SM or the botched attempt of Downpour to recapture SH2. Assuming I wanted more SHs in the first place.

[njiska]

Played blind or unfamiliar, though, and it's even more awkward than typical survival horror. If the story, atmosphere and settings don't interest you, the pace-straining second loop will probably kill the game.

Still, I'd take more flawed, experimental but original sequels like SH4 over the bland rehashing of SHO and SHH, the irrelevance of SM or the botched attempt of Downpour to recapture SH2. Assuming I wanted more SHs in the first place.

I'll admit this is probably part of the problem, as this is my first playthrough of SH4 in 8 years, but from the initial impact it feels really clunky swinging that pipe. Namely because every strike feels like it's going wide, but also because i'm really not used to how movement works. Going from tank to 2D is really fucking with my head when it comes to something like backing away from an enemy. Doubly so when it means crossing a camera angle.

As for the ghosts, I didn't like them in 2004 and I don't like them now. They feel out of place. Not as out of place as breaking melee weapons and vests full of TVs (my only memory of origins), but not Silent Hill-esque either.

[Marc]

Holy fucking shit. I just downloaded the Book Of Memories demo for Vita. They turned Silent Hill into a fucking isometric brawler. This is by far the most offensive piece of shit I have played in a long long time.

[njiska]

Holy fucking shit. I just downloaded the Book Of Memories demo for Vita. They turned Silent Hill into a fucking isometric brawler. This is by far the most offensive piece of shit I have played in a long long time.

It never was intended to be a traditional Silent Hill game. It's a complete side project that's just set in the same world. I'm not the least bit offended by it, though I have no opinion on whether it will be fun or not. Wayforward did Double Dragon Neon, which is completely not a Double Dragon game, but is fun.

[BIL]

At least it's confined to a portable. Unlike that time they turned Silent Hill into Hostel.

[Marc]

Holy fucking shit. I just downloaded the Book Of Memories demo for Vita. They turned Silent Hill into a fucking isometric brawler. This is by far the most offensive piece of shit I have played in a long long time.

It never was intended to be a traditional Silent Hill game. It's a complete side project that's just set in the same world. I'm not the least bit offended by it, though I have no opinion on whether it will be fun or not. Wayforward did Double Dragon Neon, which is completely not a Double Dragon game, but is fun.

I like Neon, though I've only played the demo as of yet. This... Its just bad.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

http://www.gamrreview.com/news/89301/hi ... hill-game/

Silent Hill a Hideo Kojima Production. What do you guys think?

I'm not too sure about Kojima messing with Silent Hill, but it could not be worse than any of the western-made ones.

I vote for Akira Yamaoka producing a new game. SH3 is the shit. Especially the music.

[BIL]

I'm very fond of MGS, and have always appreciated Kojima's dedication to those games (can't imagine the MGS HDC ever turning out like SH's did). But as lame as the western stuff has been, an SH with his tendencies for rambling, melodrama and over-exposition could be pretty bad too. He would certainly pique my interest more than yet another farmout to nobodyville, though.

If proven talents like Hiroyuki Owaku, Masahiro Ito and Takayoshi Sato were expressing interest in working on a new SH under Kojima, I'd be enthusiastic. I'd love to hear Yamaoka work with the old SH teams again, goes without saying.

[njiska]

Kojima is only a good fit for Silent Hill if he were to go back to Snatcher days. The man can do a good, atmospheric story, but he hasn't in a long time.

Personally if we're talking about other developers making a new Silent Hill game, then I want one made by Suda51. His perchance for the absurd aside, he actually did a very good job with Fatal Frame IV and could probably bring the Silent Hill back to what it used to be.

[ryu]

just played the first few segments of downpour. gotta vent.

it's no game to write home about. horror for complete wussies i guess... so far it played a lot like shattered memories, and was about just as spooky (maybe a little spookier..but you know what that means). the presentation's pretty awful. lots of framerate issues, parts where the fog just disappears and very clunky character animations. bad script. also, if this was a movie then murphy (the player character) would be as good an actor as tommy wiseau. well, no, he'd be worse. it's kinda funny when you know he's supposed to be emotional but just keeps a neutral face and voice.
the worst glitch i've encountered so far is when you enter the basement of the motel at the start, and turn back to leave that place. i guess the playtesters never bothered to do that because backtracking probably isn't a thing you're ever supposed to do in an archetypical game of 20xx. i also had a monster spawn right behind me once. that was dumb.

btw i like that the first gun seems to be missable. nice detail.

the physics are damn annoying. you can pick up anyhing for a weapon, which means murphy will always have to discard his current weapon before he can grab a new one. this happens on the general "check" button, so youll often accidentally have murphy pick up chais and what not. you'll also keep discarding your weapon involuntarily because you never know when an item could be needed for a puzzle (instead of being a weapon).
devs need to understand that it's often better to leave out some of the gimmecks a physics engine comes with.

the graphics are so-so. some models look nice enough,some are just plain ugly. animations are still awful though. i liked some of the otherworldenvironments... however not a single place had much of an atmosphere worthy of a silent hill game (of old days).

melee combat seems to be abit messy, but it's not that bad. i've only fought 2 monsters so far so i can't say much here. the game seems pretty easy so far though.

my bottom line is that the creators have probably never even played a silent hill game before. and if they have, they sure as hell didn't get what it was about. horror for wussies is literally the only thing i can call this so far. downpour at least neither seems worth playing for the action, nor for the plot.

but maybe it gets better? i doubt it though.

and the first few minutes of gameplay were sickening. that would have been fine as a cutscene, or if there had been a choice for the player - but the way it was was just dumb and sick.

is this also how modern gta games are like? I've never played any past gta2.

so how come some people say that this is a good game? it's a whole bunch of nothing so far.

[BIL]

nor for the plot.

but maybe it gets better?

Yes and no. Downpour attempts to deal in the same amorality as SH2, and gets it half-right. The content is sound. Murphy's situation is distinct from and just as troubling and bereft of easy answers as James's. There is real emotion, tragedy and moral challenge in his predicament. Unfortunately the narrative fails to nurture this. KCET credits the player with enough intelligence and maturity to form their own judgements, letting SH2's dramas resolve unhindered in a reflective, formidably impartial otherworld. Downpour not only makes the mistake of using the otherworld to "answer" the central dilemma on the player's behalf, it does so with all the melodrama, sanctimony and self-satisfaction the original series lacked. SH2's supernatural stage complements its moral ambiguity, Downpour's steamrolls its.

This is compounded by the same problem the previous three outsourced games have had, a sloppy multiple choice story that fragments the narrative into disparate shards depending on what boxes you've ticked. It obviously works in SM's context but jars here, even moreso than in SHO and SHH since Downpour makes an earnest attempt at character study only to reveal Murphy has no consistent character.

[ryu]

only to reveal Murphy has no character.

i think everyone who's played the first 15 minutes of this game can tell so much

[cj iwakura]

So uh, anyone going to see the film adaptation of SH3? I loved the first film, but only because they nailed the visuals and sound design.

All the dialogue was crap.

Bad news is, the writer's back, and Christoph Gans isn't.

[njiska]

I probably will, though I am confused by the trailer. Namely the existence of Heather in the film universe to begin with, as well as Sean Bean actually being Harry this time, as opposed to playing second string to a new character.

[cj iwakura]

I probably will, though I am confused by the trailer. Namely the existence of Heather in the film universe to begin with, as well as Sean Bean actually being Harry this time, as opposed to playing second string to a new character.

She's the daughter from the first film. Sean Bean is still Christopher, he was always the character from SH1, they just added the mother because they thought audiences would buy a mother as the lead more than a protective father(something I found kind of offensive).

[njiska]

I probably will, though I am confused by the trailer. Namely the existence of Heather in the film universe to begin with, as well as Sean Bean actually being Harry this time, as opposed to playing second string to a new character.

She's the daughter from the first film. Sean Bean is still Christopher, he was always the character from SH1, they just added the mother because they thought audiences would buy a mother as the lead more than a protective father(something I found kind of offensive).

No I know all that bullshit, but what I'm saying is that Christopher is in Harry's role this time, rather than the mother and I'm confused because the daughter for the first film was trapped in purgatory silent hill with the mother. So how is she suddenly back in the real world?

[cj iwakura]

I probably will, though I am confused by the trailer. Namely the existence of Heather in the film universe to begin with, as well as Sean Bean actually being Harry this time, as opposed to playing second string to a new character.

She's the daughter from the first film. Sean Bean is still Christopher, he was always the character from SH1, they just added the mother because they thought audiences would buy a mother as the lead more than a protective father(something I found kind of offensive).

No I know all that bullshit, but what I'm saying is that Christopher is in Harry's role this time, rather than the mother and I'm confused because the daughter for the first film was trapped in purgatory silent hill with the mother. So how is she suddenly back in the real world?

Heck if I know. I assume they'll explain it.

(By the by, that was an amazing ending, perfect SH tone.)

[BIL]

Wait a second, was 4 even on Xbox? I thought only 2 was. Massively off-topic of course.

Yeah, unlike SH2 it was developed simultaneously for PS2 and Xbox, in-house.

[Blinge]

Still, I'd take more flawed, experimental but original sequels like SH4 over the bland rehashing of SHO and SHH, the irrelevance of SM or the botched attempt of Downpour to recapture SH2. Assuming I wanted more SHs in the first place.

So much this.

Silent hill ended at 4 imo, though i've never checked out shattered memories so i can't comment on that. I really liked 4 actually, i played it off the back of 1-3 and its a real curveball to get your head around. I hadn't felt that sense of dread from a game since Amnesia. I certainly think it's trying to portray Henry as something of a recluse, even before being trapped in his room, so when that safe place is invaded it was really unsettling. I love 2 but 3 is only marginally worse imo. There's a Silent Hill school of cult haters, thanks in no small part to that Yahtzee guy saying the cult is rubbish in his SH2 review; spawning loads of little assholes who regurgitate his every word. I do like the way SH2 deals with the occult though, just in small references to rituals etc that I suppose are just a callback to first game.

Downpour looks like garbage to me, like some highschool creative writing club attempting to ape SH2's story and themes as much as possible. I'd recommend Twin Perfects's review of that aswell, they really tear it apart

As for " Silent Hill Revelation 3D ".. the worst. it's one of the worst things that has ever happened. JWS and I watched it a year ago and were in stitches the entire time, it was so atrociously bad it became hilarious. It's just an insult, man.

Oh and I'm trying to speedrun SH2 as a little project. I'm finding it hard to shave any more time off than this, It's difficult to take care of Eddie and the Pyramid Heads quickly

[BIL]

I've still not worked up the strength to watch the Twinperfect Downpour review, two years after they incendiary bombed the HDC into the ground and airdropped ton after ton of salt onto its ashes. I love them, but those guys are SH geeks of the most exhausting calibre. Maybe after my next KCET marathon. I like to play SH1-4 back to back every couple of winters, when the evenings are long enough to comfortably clear one a night with plenty of stopping to bask in the environments and read all the documents and comments.

I do think DP (bahaha) had its better points, mostly at a conceptual level. Ostensibly righteous vengeance and the collateral damage done is a rich subject for surreal psycho-horror. Then again I think SHH's premise of communal, dogmatic self-destruction had the kernel of a good SH experience too. As usual the execution was awry, though not as badly in DP's case. At least you don't infiltrate enemy base and beat down waves of security guards to rescue Carl Winslow from Hostel. But yeah, IDGAF about more games, even moreso with these intervening years (so much to absorb, rethink and debate about SH1-4, with none of the non-KCET games' flab/corn/cheese).

I'm just glad Konami seems to have stopped flogging the series quite so mercilessly with farmout after farmout, if only for lack of profit. Right from SH3 and SH4 it was obviously being run into the ground. The former not being given the resources for even a flying visit's return to SH1's northern side and its immensely significant content (Midwich, Alchemilla, Green Lion...) is a shame for an otherwise potent epilogue. That chunk of SH2's southern side c/p'd in is about the only thing in SH1-4 that taxes my suspension of disbelief (even more vexingly, those streets are a lot more involving to navigate with SH3's monsters lurking in the fog. "Goin' good, goin' good..." "Baroooooo!" "Oh shi-" "SCREEE" "FUUU")