Any RPG fans here?

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Fuzzypants
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Any RPG fans here?

Post by Fuzzypants »

I was wondering if we had some rpg fans in the house? I just got done beating popolocrois and was looking for some other games that are kinda like that. Either for the psp or ps1
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Vyxx »

I'm not sure if I could call myself an RPG fan per se, but I do enjoy a few series. I'm very select with RPGs because I either love them or hate them, and most are so time consuming I just stick to a few main series. Dragon Quest, Lunar, and Final Fantasy Tactics are pretty much all I play.

I haven't played Popolocrois so I can't comment but maybe you should check into Lunar: Silver Star Harmony for the PSP, it just came out in North America, it's the 2nd remake of a classic, now portable.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Fuzzypants »

oh yea i forgot about lunar being released in NA ill check it out thanks vyxx
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by BulletMagnet »

Like Vyxx I haven't played Popolocrois (though I do have a copy sitting around), but I can say that I'm super-hyped for Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey next week.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by gundamalpha »

I'm a JRPG fan with little to no time to play them these days :(

SO4 still stuck at the beginning, FFXIII just arrived on my doorstep, and spending minimal time on Lunar now. Looking forward to play Persona 2 S&P in the near future as I just finished the first Persona on PSP days ago.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Ganelon »

I'm a big RPG fan (SRPGs, JRPGs, CRPGs, ARPGs, dungeon crawlers, you name it) although I don't spend as much time on recent RPGs (same with shooters too *sigh*). I'm afraid I've never had interest in the overly cutesy Popolocrois series. Currently, I'm in a dungeon crawler mood so I'm going for a 100% of Wizardry Inochi no Kusabi on DS. I can only recommend that to dungeon crawler fans. The interface is very simple but clunky, and the game starts off very easy for a Wizardry title but is ending up pretty brutal. Lunar Silver Star Harmony on PSP is next, which is from perhaps my 2nd favorite traditional JRPG series.

And after that, perhaps one of the world's largest RPG backlogs, with over a thousand RPGs sitting around that i've played but not beaten. Indeed, so much to play and so little time.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by orange »

stoppin in to say mother 3 is the best
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by CMoon »

BulletMagnet wrote:Like Vyxx I haven't played Popolocrois (though I do have a copy sitting around), but I can say that I'm super-hyped for Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey next week.
Basically with BM but haven't checked out the PSP rpg catalog due to lack of console. No clue if there is enough to warrant purchase, but the DS definitely has enough old school RPG magic to have me hooked.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by KBZ »

Been playing some Shining Force EXA....and I like it alright!?
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Pirate1019 »

BulletMagnet wrote:I can say that I'm super-hyped for Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey next week.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by sjewkestheloon »

Star Ocean 2 on the PSP is a rather good port if you haven't played the original.

I'm a bit of an RPG junky and probably spend about 80% of my gaming time on them.

I'm currently playing Tales of Vesperia and Risen on the 360 and really enjoying both of them. ToV is a great and lengthy romp with some decent voice acting and fun story. Risen on the other hand plays like a Gothic game in every way, a plus in my books.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by ZOM »

Big JRPG & Dungeon crawling fan here, currently playing Breath of Fire III PSP - I had the german PS1 version since launch sitting around but I never got around to finish it and the localization is f*horrible; playing the PSP version in english now is a godbless. I'm enjoying the game more than I thought I would.

Also, if you haven't already, be sure to check out stuff like Suikoden I & II and Legend of Legaia for the PS1.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by szycag »

If there's anything as good as Earthbound or Chrono Trigger out there I'd like to know about it, because from my experience the stories and characters since the PSX era to now are just getting more and more self-important and schlock while the battle and management mechanics get more obscure and complicated. And the music isn't even catchy anymore either. And they're way, way, way too long. And they aren't FUN!

Mother 3 is none of that by the way. Freaking awesome game.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by CMoon »

How are the PS2 Suikoden games? I haven't played anything from this series, but noticed I could download the first one off PSN for $5 or something.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by MR_Soren »

I like RPGs, but I don't play very many because they take up a lot of time. Unfortunately I can't help much since I play most of my RPGs on Nintendo DS or occasionally PS2. I have never heard of Popolocrois.

I normally don't care for Final Fantasy or anything else that is heavily narrated or with a main character who talks a lot. Tactical RPGs are among my favorites because I enjoy the strategy. I also really enjoy the combat system in the Shin Megami Tensei games. I'm excited about getting Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey next week.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by professor ganson »

MR_Soren wrote:I normally don't care for Final Fantasy or anything else that is heavily narrated or with a main character who talks a lot. Tactical RPGs are among my favorites because I enjoy the strategy.
Same here. I like challenging SRPGs and shmups because I can usually skip whatever story there is and just enjoy the challenge. I think I would like traditional RPGs more if I could skip the story and the combat were more engaging. Occasionally I'll actually follow a story, if it's lighthearted and silly. If I want a serious story, I'll read a novel.

I don't like WRPGs or action titles like Demon's Souls.

Perhaps I should give dungeon crawlers a chance. I've been thinking about playing Etrian Odyssey. Any other challenging RPGs (apart from SRPGs) I should be checking out?
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Pirate1019 »

CMoon wrote:How are the PS2 Suikoden games? I haven't played anything from this series, but noticed I could download the first one off PSN for $5 or something.
Suikoden III seemed alright, and I've heard that III was the series' sweet spot. It had an interesting idea. You play out the story from 3 different perspectives. Each perspective is split into chapters and you can choose what order you do them in. The combat was unusual because you fought with characters in pairs, and who was with who and what position they were in changed their skills and stuff.

I guess I should say as a disclaimer that I never finished the game.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by ZOM »

IMHO Suikoden III is pure garbage and it makes me ashamed to be a Suikoden fan, but then came Suikoden IV and...er, it was even more garbage. Ok, that was a bit overexaggerated right there but those two games made many fans unhappy to say the least. However, what followed after that was a masterpiece: Suikoden V got a bit more back to the series' roots while still changing some mechanics enough to make it a very interesting title in the genre. Personally, I rank Suikoden V right there with number II which is arguably the most popular in the series.

Long story short: CMoon, go play Suikoden V!
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by CMoon »

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm in a weird in-between with rpgs, with my preference mostly going to the old-school sorts that bore everyone else, but that doesn't mean I want complete linearity. As much as I like the DQ games, the whole horse & carrot (finish next adventure, go to next town, buy new weapons, repeat forever) isn't what I'm looking for either. I'm probably happiest with the wizardry style dungeon crawler, but even this can get tiresome without something to mix things up. Hence I love Nocturne.

There's definitely a good number of rpgs on the PS2 still that I want to check out, and most are cheap. I think my local gamestop has Suikoden V for pennies, so I might just go and pick that up.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Ruldra »

Front Mission 4 for PS2 is a really good game. It might not be everyone's cup of tea but I personally loved it. There's also the sequel, it was released only in japanese but there's a translation patch made by fans here.

Any good RPGs for PS3 besides Demon's Souls? I'm not too fond of cartoonish stuff like Disgaea 3 or Valkyria Chronicles, and I might pass up FFXIII. Anything else worth checking out?
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Ganelon »

No, not really. The only one that might possibly be interesting is Wizardry Torawareshi Tamashii no Meikyuu for JP PSN, which just got a DLC scenario last week. It's a very bare-bones Wizardry though (no music in the dungeons) but most dungeon crawler fans probably won't care.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Fuzzypants »

thank you guys for the responses..Have some titles to play now thankfully...I'm a little "weird" with my rpgs I don't mind the cutesy rpgs but I also like dragon quest, older final fantasy, star ocean, etc.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Imhotep »

Despite not being an rpg fan at all, there's a handful of them that are favourites of mine.

I'm playing Panzer Dragoon Saga at the moment and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

Besides that, I think the Paper Marios are great games, very charming and fun.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by PainAmplifier »

I'm a pretty solid fan of RPG's. I'm far more in favor of older style RPG's though.

It feels like the RPG genre as a whole started to die a slow death as 3D graphics started getting better. True RPG's on the PC are pretty much extinct now, and most of the console RPG's have either become 'action/adventure' games more than 'role playing' OR they have fallen heavily into the 'Visual Novel' style of game design. (FF series starting after VII for example.)

I'm a bit out of touch on any PSP (don't have one) or PS1 (didn't get a PS until the PS2) RPG games however. So you probably already have or know about the ones that might be/still are availalable for those two platforms.

If it was the PS2 I'd have a few worth mentioning, but that's pretty much the extent of 'good' RPG's I can recall.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by alits »

PainAmplifier wrote:I'm a pretty solid fan of RPG's. I'm far more in favor of older style RPG's though.

It feels like the RPG genre as a whole started to die a slow death as 3D graphics started getting better. True RPG's on the PC are pretty much extinct now, and most of the console RPG's have either become 'action/adventure' games more than 'role playing' OR they have fallen heavily into the 'Visual Novel' style of game design. (FF series starting after VII for example.)

I'm a bit out of touch on any PSP (don't have one) or PS1 (didn't get a PS until the PS2) RPG games however. So you probably already have or know about the ones that might be/still are availalable for those two platforms.

If it was the PS2 I'd have a few worth mentioning, but that's pretty much the extent of 'good' RPG's I can recall.
The DS has plenty of great old school pc style rpgs on it.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Ganelon »

RPGs are still RPGs. It hasn't changed. There have been graphic adventure games with RPG elements since the 80s and that hasn't changed; they're still rare. There are a lot of random action games that now incorporate RPG-esque leveling and focus more on stats/inventory but they aren't considered RPGs. CRPGs have died off though, true, but JRPGs are still just fine. As a whole, there are probably less RPGs because the cost to make games is now higher. But I think you just need to play some more recent ones, although if you're like me, I bet you don't really find newer RPGs that fun to play either.
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Enhasa »

This is going to be a flood of text because I'm gonna try to cram a lot of stuff in here, but hopefully not too boring. And of course this is all IMO and you don't have to agree with anything and in fact you can just skip this post anyway.


I wouldn't call myself a fan, but I know a lot, especially about older ones. It's a genre where you can hate 95% and love 5% and it's still worth it, over other genres where you kinda like everything. Only problem is the 5% differs for everyone...

But man, RPG threads are generally useless for recommendations. I agree with most people on this site when it comes to most non-shmup genres (pick one, say puzzle or racing), but this genre is so maximalist and unfocused that even on a site like this one where people tend to value gameplay over story (filtering out 95% of players on other sites), opinions on everything are all over the map. By being maximalist and throwing in tons of different elements, you get a very high ceiling and a very low floor. Even people I highly respect have RPG opinions that make me think they're temporary lunatics. I've noticed that pockets of similar opinion form on different sites, and while I agree most closely with SDA guys, this site is more in line with RPG blogger and dedicated site fare like MegaTen and roguelikes are popular.


I'm not a fan of Popolocrois (the first PS1 one, dunno about PS2 or PSP or whatever), but if you like it you will probably like Moon (also in JP). I love linking this Mr Driller G review for no reason other than accidental shock value, but keep in mind this guy loves Popolocrois and has strong opinions, so listen to what he likes and you'll do fine.

Star Ocean 2 is easy to get on PS1 for cheap I think. Get that version unless you really like portable gaming or strangely drawn TOSE cutscene crap or poor rebalancing (in your favor). The SO remakes seem like they suck, but I think like all remakes suck, so take that with a grain of salt.

PS2 Suikoden games (esp 3-4) will make you cry if you love 1-2. But if you don't love 1-2, there's no reason to play the rest in the first place. Start with 1-2 if you want to decide to try any of the rest. Disclaimer: not a Suikoden fan, but everyone agrees on this.

I wrote the first bit because szycag is a really cool dude but I wouldn't put either Earthbound or Chrono Trigger in my top 25 RPGs, so I think dozens of them are better? I don't think I'd put a single Mother game in top 50 or maybe 100. Heresy, but I care about gameplay and Earthbound has boring traditional-ass combat, even if the setting and atmosphere and presentation are cool. Just like shmups, I don't care much about plot, cutscenes, voice acting, characters, blah blah blah. No lie, I've played games where I've skipped cutscenes on my first playthrough. So I dunno why people complain about like Star Ocean 4 cutscenes when you can just skip them and in modern RPGs it tells you what you missed so you're not lost. Seriously, people would hate games like this a lot less if there were no cutscenes, but they can already be played this way.


Because I made this a long time ago but never put it anywhere, and because yes I really am loser enough to make a top 25 list, let me put this out for you guys to chuckle at and post my shmups top 25-style top 25 RPGs list. I went by whether Wikipedia says it's an RPG, which is different from what I would include (I'd axe Alcahest, include God Hand, etc), but probably more useful for other people. I love reading personal lists of stuff (best part of shmups top 25, don't care about aggregate results) so it would rule if other people could post their own. And yeah, I have top 25 beat em ups too, lol, that's another topic.
Valkyrie Profile (1999)
Valkyrie Profile 2 (2006)
Star Ocean 3 (2003)
Star Ocean 2 (1998)
Star Ocean (1996)
Breath of Fire 5 (2002)

Tales of Phantasia (1995)
Chaos Seed (1996)
Shadow over Mystara (1996)
Guardian Heroes (1996)
Radiata Stories (2005)

Lufia 2 (1995)
Terranigma (1995)
Alcahest (1993)
EVO (1992)
Landstalker (1992)
Star Ocean Blue Sphere (2001)
Alundra (1997)

Vagrant Story (2000)
Fallout 2 (1998)
Deus Ex (2000)
Illusion of Gaia (1993)
Ogre Battle (1993)
Hiouden (1994)
Princess Crown (1997)
I blocked them into insanely awesome, pretty awesome, pretty good, and "crap I have to fill out to 25 which isn't overly hard but I like shmups better so I wouldn't really mind cutting any of these games." This reveals preferences and how broad the genre is more than anything. Probably could figure out what I'm going to say, but I'll include anyway. First, I clearly am not a traditional-RPG fan. The reason why is they can't be fair and challenging. The games I like are about positioning. That includes action RPGs and tactical RPGs (the problem is I find TRPGs generally boring and tedious except for ironically streamlined "kid" games like Monstania and I guess Energy Breaker... TRPGs are also usually terribly balanced because you have like 10 on 10 but you're supposed to win 10-0? which means they're easier to allow for that... also I think taking turns is stupid because you watch the computer make a bunch of moves in a row while you just sit there and do nothing). Also "traditional" RPGs (because people take TRPGs to be Fire Emblem game structure) with position-based combat systems... essentially streamlined TRPGs.

Now how do you make an RPG challenging? Well first off, many people say you can't because you can always level up, it's only a matter of perserverance. I think that's bullshit. Grinding is equivalent to credit feeding through a shmup and saying you beat it or it's too easy. I do forced fights only, even first playthrough (since 16-bit days this is almost always possible). If I'm desperate to try to make a game harder (Eternal Sonata), I reset even when accidentally getting into a non-fleeable fight, which is a sad sight to see. People complain about level systems, but I love them since it's user-adjustable difficulty (like Raizing games!), so I can min-level to my heart's content while someone else can credit feed for the story. I love challenging genres like shmups and rhythm and puzzle, and while RPGs have the opposite reputation, they can be the hardest games around due to level systems allowing for a level of difficulty devs would never force all players to see.

Back to the point. In a traditional RPG, even if it's tough through being underleveled, why are you dying? It's stats and randomness. There's not enough room for one person to outskill another based on strategy, so a lot of it is luck. But in action RPGs, even if they are overly simplistic, it's typically based on execution (exceptions for games in terrible series like Seiken Densetsu where bosses use full-screen interrupt attacks while sitting in one place and your hit and evade are mostly stat-based). Put simply, it's possible to go through an entire game of Valkyrie Profile 2 (with a position-based TRPG-like system and considered one of the toughest games on the PS2) without taking a single point of damage. It's possible to beat the final boss in Star Ocean 3 with a plain level 1 character with no item creation or great gear or skills or buffs or whatever. And it's all because there is no enemy whose turn comes up, gets to select a target (usually at random, rofl), and rolls a dice to see if it hit you and for how much damage. My goal is to minimize the amount of randomness in my entertainment since life is already too random.

A really telling way to think about this is to look at stuff like Magfest challenges. To sum up, you are given save states and try to complete shortish tasks like try to one-life a boss in Super C with the peashooter. Every vaguely RPGish game is an ARPG. (In fact, they comprise a lot of the hardest difficulty level challenges, precisely because you can be presented with an underprepared state that you can't in a platformer.) Someone asked, hey can you make a couple for something like Chrono Trigger? But if you think about it, you really can't. With execution not being a problem, it would just be a matter of finding the best strategy and running it until the numbers go your way, reset if they don't. It would not be possible to make such a challenge because everyone would be able to complete it, once told the strategy. Non-execution-based RPGs with positioning also share this "problem," but in normal play, the added complexity of positioning often makes them interesting enough. It really does nuke replay value a ton though, because without execution, there's no fun or challenge in already knowing how to handle everything. Games like VP2 get around this by increasing the difficulty each playthrough (the correct implementation of rank and the opposite of typical New Game Plus!) and, well, by requiring execution. So bad example maybe.

Another way to increase complexity is in the fundamental aspect of RPGs, character micromanagement (again: needed in this genre to allow players to differentiate skill levels, although it doesn't work nearly as well as combat). It's what defines the genre, although really RPG is not a genre in and of itself but a modifier meaning "with RPG elements aka character micromanagement" (all the morons debating is such and such an RPG could save themselves a lot of time and heartache by realizing this). Meaning you have RPG action games, RPG strategy games (including "traditional" RPGs), RPG adventure, RPG FPS, and whatever. Some players (typically JRPG fans) hate character management, which really means they are fans of anime stories and possibly machinima rather than RPGs, and others (typically WRPG fans) love it. I love it, because why would I be playing a genre if I don't like its defining aspect?

As another aside, some people (all JRPG fans) will tell you that the defining aspect should be story, which is dumb because a game without story is still a game, whereas a game without gameplay is a movie. And some people (all WRPG fans) will say that RPGs are about role-playing and that's why they're called RPGs, and really all computerized RPGs suck compared to pen and paper but JRPGs suck the most, blah blah blah. Which is nonsense because by the very nature of being video games, RPGs are not tabletop games nor should they try to be. And yes you are "role-playing" every time you pick up the damn controller, because you are acting the role of the guy playing the game, and this is true no matter what genre of game you are dealing with, no more no less, which makes a useless genre differentiator. Also, only a moronic pedant would care what something is called and if there is a disconnect, rather than what it is (fun fact: lots of people detest the word shmup as if it actually matters). STG or STD or ham sandwich, it doesn't make the game about pigs or venereal disease.

Anyway, my problem is that neither WRPGs nor JRPGs typically exactly fulfill what I'm looking for in a game. WRPGs can have some cool game world depth, flexibility, character customization (even if their idea of a deep management system is 50,000 weapons that all do basically the same thing)... but it seems to me all like polishing a turd. It's cool stuff but it's like a shmup where the atmosphere, music, and everything is great besides the dodging action. Any WRPG combat or strategy aspect is all easy, boring, simple crap, and usually unbalanced as shit. A lot of grinding clickathons or just watching your guys go. True, old-school traditional JRPGs are simple like that too, but it's not like I like those either. Now of course, what I don't like about JRPGs is the focus on plot, characters, and so forth (and the fact I don't like anime or the anime style so the effort is wasted on me) and de-emphasis on flexibility and character customization (instead they are like: go to the next town, buy the best equipment). But at least even games like Final Fantasy usually make an attempt to come up with new actual combat systems. Most are poorly concieved, executed , or balanced, because it's hard to design a one-shot perfectly rather than through iterative fighter-style or Psikyo-style development, but like I said you only have to hit the 5%. Not every game needs to be a winner, and the world needs more Sol Divide attempts.

If you recognize the games near the top of my list, you'll see I have a lot of tri-Ace games. I wouldn't call myself a diehard fan (someone that loves all their games, because I don't), but there is rationale that matches everything said earlier. They're known as a gameplay RPG dev, and are totally derided by the blogger/importer types who can't shut up about Atlus (I'm plugging my favorite review of all time for no reason) and who know the names of English and Japanese voice actors. Their plots and characters apparently really suck, but I can't tell that they're any worse (as in they're all bad) than stuff those people think is awesome, like Xenogears.

tri-Ace usually get the combat stuff and other typical JRPG gameplay stuff pretty much perfectly. But what I really like is that they're by far the most westernized of the semi-well-known JRPG developers. Every time you go through a game, it's impossible to get all the characters or other missable stuff. JRPG fans hate this because they are mostly OCD 100% completionists, but this is sweet and adds variety. There tend to be a fair number of optional dungeons and sidequests that you don't need to do to "beat" the game (which really hurts reviews to put some of your best content where reviewers won't see it). Some of the games have flexible game progression, with branching paths or multiple endings or even final dungeons, although not to the extent of many WRPGs. And mostly, there are always ridiculously involved item creation systems, equipment setups and synthesizing, skill setup combinations, and so on. I would otherwise recommend them to WRPG players looking for a taste, but they would all be unable to get past the Japanese-ness of the characters and everything and also the combat being much more complicated than they are used to or want in a game.

Of course, I'd like to see the flip side, which would be WRPGs with actual combat systems, but that's like expecting to see a euroshmup with an actual scoring system. Western game devs have absolutely no creativity, so the closest they've come to making actual combat is to mix RPG elements into an established genre, typically FPS because those are popular. While this is an improvement (I like Deus Ex), it's extremely unexciting even when it works. Either the RPG or the action elements are almost always poorly done (it's not fun to make shooting accuracy depend on stats), to the point where I'd rather just play an action game. I'd like to know if I'm missing any though. Stuff like Anachronox doesn't count (even if it was any good to begin with) because it's just a western developer making a JRPG based on CT nostalgia, not mixing them.


Ok, I'm done for now, I swear. Like I said, seeing other people's lists would be cool. They don't need explanation, I just felt like it because I'm at the end of spring break so I have no console access and have nothing better to do.
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Enhasa
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Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Enhasa »

In the process of spamming this link to any potentially interested RPG players.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30683
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress."

http://speeddemosarchive.com/
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Fuzzypants
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:09 am

Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by Fuzzypants »

killer post Enhasa!

thank you
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lilmanjs
Posts: 1572
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:36 am
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Re: Any RPG fans here?

Post by lilmanjs »

I haven't really played many RPGs but love them. my favorite at the moment is front mission. heh, can't wait for Pier Solar to be released though. will make having a sega genesis and sega cd worth it :D
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