Gunners Heaven EXACTLY the same as Gunstar Heroes?....

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:29 am

I'm always skeptical when I here someone say "___ game is a clone of ___ game". I've seen screenshots of Gunners Heaven, and while the characters do look very similar, do they have the same moves, weapons, etc. as the characters in Gunstar Heroes?

dementia · Post by **dementia** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:00 am

No

here's a good analysis:
http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/gh.htm

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:19 am

Wow, thanks dementia! Looks like an awesome game that does indeed have original elements.

vek · Post by **vek** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:20 am

It's not identical. They're very similar though, if you like one, you'll like the other. Any questions, just read the link dementia posted, that's where I first heard of the game.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:21 am

Is it really that good as this guys hypes it up to be? As a run 'n gun fan, I demand to know.

vek · Post by **vek** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:30 am

UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:Is it really that good as this guys hypes it up to be? As a run 'n gun fan, I demand to know.

I haven't had time to play much of it yet, but from what I have played, yes. The guy who wrote that is a pretty well known reviewer over here in the UK. He's certainly not afraid to lay into games that don't come up to scratch, so when he's that enthusiastic about one, it's worth checking out

UnscathedFlyingObject · Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:42 am

Awright, I will. I need more games to play with my Hori RAP 'stick.

99pence · Post by **99pence** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:05 am

It's Les Cadbury's Fingres all over again.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:00 am

They're not identical, and this one is much worse. Still, almost anything on earth is much worse than Gunstar Heroes, so that's not a big crime.

P.S. that Stuart guy want to know if the game is Treasure's. it's not, ist's the first game by the teaml behind the Wild Arms series.

...play it for two or three stages and you can tell it's nowhere Treasure's... But still a fun game.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:10 am

It's definitely not as good as Gunstar but still a fun game in its own right. It's kind of odd it was never released in the US.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:05 am

thanks for letting me know of this game's existance dave, looks badass.

Post by **Ghegs** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:51 am

I have Rapid Reload and I do like it quite a bit. I think the bosses are cool, even if they're very easy to deal with once you've figured out their patterns. But I guess that's how it is with these games. Shamefully, I've never seen the famous shmup level...I always die one level before.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:14 pm

Gunners Heaven is pretty mediocre. There are plenty of other games out there that are more worthy of your time. Gunstar Heroes, of course, is excellent.

The most plausible justification for the conviction that Gunner's Heaven is the unbilled work of Treasure comes from simply playing it. The briefest of runs through the respective opening levels of this game and Gunstar Heroes will give any gamer the distinct impression that they were written by the same hand.

I guess I'm not "any gamer," then. Gunners Heaven is a watered-down clone. It's filler material. It's not the worst thing out there, but thinking that Treasure actually developed it is pretty superficial.

Gunner's Heaven predates Metal Slug by a year, and it single-handedly blazed the trail for the survival of the 2D shooting platform game in a world that seemed to have left the genre behind.

Somehow I doubt an obscure game that even many 2D fans apparently haven't heard of could blaze any trails, especially for a relatively well-known franchise with numerous installments.

(Also, not being an arcade game it didn't have to bow to Metal Slug's need to constantly kill the player and suck more coins out of his pocket, but it's no pushover for all that - indeed, being sent back to the start of a section when you die makes Gunner's Heaven considerably the more challenging game in a home context, where there's no chance of running out of cash just as you reach the end.)

Now I'm confused. Is Gunner's Heaven supposed to be harder since there's checkpoints, eliminating credit-feeding, or is Metal Slug harder for "constantly killing the player"?

Ghegs wrote:I think the bosses are cool, even if they're very easy to deal with once you've figured out their patterns.

Yeah, I've used this analogy about 300 times too many, but it's accurate so I'll keep doing it: the bosses in this game are as idiotic as the old Mega Man bosses. Their patterns are the same every time, so once you've beaten a boss once, you'll probably beat it every time.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:22 pm

Treasure has nothing to do with this game and I wish he would put in size 72 Arial font at the top of his review stating this.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:47 pm

I don't know man, those screenshots don't look mediocre at all, they look beautiful!

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 am

I've known about the game for a few years but I haven't played it. That WOS review kinda sucked, you should check out Kid Fenris' review:

http://www.kidfenris.com/gheaven.html

It even shows at the bottom of his review that the Axel character showed up in Wild Arms (well, his design anyways) and a few other homages from GH to WA.

The first time I heard about GH I was extremely intrigued by it and would have loved to play it; looking at it now, I don't see any heart or character in the game. I don't know, it just doesn't have that "feel" that sets it apart from other run 'n gunners. It looks like it just copies everything GH was.

Then again, I've only seen screenshots and read reviews, but to me that's how I feel. I'd buy it on Day 1 if it were ever released here, though.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:49 am

Well, you might want to look at Kurt's review as well, then.

http://www.classicgaming.com/reviews/gu ... heaven.htm

Seriously though... the game isn't bad, but I understand why they went all rpg after this effort. Either that, or disappear as a software house.

King Slime · Post by **King Slime** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:03 am

dave4shmups wrote:I don't know man, those screenshots don't look mediocre at all, they look beautiful!

And that would be relatively similar to judging a book by its cover.

I haven't played the game albeit I am skeptical about trying it considering that opinions on this game are mixed.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:56 am

King Slime wrote:I haven't played the game albeit I am skeptical about trying it considering that opinions on this game are mixed.

Try the game won't kill you!

(paying big money for it however is another matter)

NoMaD · Post by **NoMaD** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:23 am

I've played it and it is indeed mediocre. It was one of those PSX (near) launch titles that everyone was wowed by back then, but when you actually get to play it - it's actually quite boring.

So, yeah Gunstar Heroes > Gunner's Heaven.

King Slime · Post by **King Slime** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:36 pm

Turrican wrote:
King Slime wrote:I haven't played the game albeit I am skeptical about trying it considering that opinions on this game are mixed.
Try the game won't kill you!

(paying big money for it however is another matter)

"Try the game won't kill you!"
...Well...er...eh...Damn. Good point. Hell, I bought In the Hunt when that got mixed opinions as well...

"(paying big money for it however is another matter)"
Yeah, I was thinking it would be expensive since it appears to be rare, however I guess that isn't neccessarily true considering that you can buy GunForce off of Amazon for $1.50.

OptimusPrimeX · Post by **OptimusPrimeX** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:46 am

Nemo wrote:It's definitely not as good as Gunstar but still a fun game in its own right. It's kind of odd it was never released in the US.

Odd my Ass!!.. it was a conspiracy even then!!! Sony didn't want no 2d games all up in the mainstream media.. they wanted to be pushing the mainstream sticks up our asses yoz.. 3d plygons own you.....and be movin games along too fast!.. maybe thats why we never got it.. a conspiracy I tell you!!!!!!!

Anyway.. i gotta fucin have this game!!!! ... Graphics look amazing!.. Every time i see a game as detailed as this for a 2d sidescroller... it just reminds of how 2d never really evolved in the home market like it should have, or was capable of...

Dimentia...... Interesting read through..". indeed... .. quite.. yes"...........good link

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:21 pm

People who haven't actually played the game wrote:omg teh grafx!!!111

1.) Regardless, the gameplay is bland.
2.) I haven't played the game in 2-3 years, but IIRC, the graphics don't look as good in the game as they do in the photos. In other words, don't expect animation quality anywhere near Metal Slug.

King Slime · Post by **King Slime** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:19 pm

Could you describe the gameplay and what makes it bland? I'm just interested in knowing.

99pence · Post by **99pence** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:30 pm

King Slime wrote:Could you describe the gameplay and what makes it bland? I'm just interested in knowing.

That's a great line.

'Can you describe why it's so bland?'

'Errr no, so it must be.'

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:12 pm

@ ^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, let's think of it this way: Gunner's Heaven rips off Gunstar Heroes, this fact has already been established. Now, let's think about why Gunstar Heroes is good. A few reasons are:
1.) Excellent weapon system. You can combine different weapons to make new weapons, which can be vastly different from one another. This adds a ton of replay because your strategies can change a lot depending on your weapons.
2.) The bosses. Gunstar is known for its bosses.
3.) Mixture of shooting with hand-to-hand combat. There's just something that kicks ass about diving head first into a pack of enemies and tossing them around, yet having a bigass gun to kill anything else on the screen at the same time.

Now let's look at Gunner's Heaven in these regards:
1.) Ordinary weapons, IIRC. Meaning, you have your regular shot, spread, homing, fire, laser, etc. Yes, they're different, but they're not as varied as in Gunstar. And, IIRC, you can change them on the fly, so you always have the best tool for the job at any given point. I like the challenge of having to pick my weapon ahead of time and applying it to whatever might come my way, even if it might suck for a certain level or boss.
2.) As mentioned previously, the bosses are completely asinine and never deviate from their structured attack patterns.
3.) I can't remember if this game has hand-to-hand combat, but if it does, it's just there for the sake of being there, as opposed to being a key feature.

Also, the levels in Gunstar seem more interesting. For example, Gunner's Heaven has a minecart level, but it's just kinda there, it's not like Gunstar's where there's some thought and creativity put into it (reversable gravity, vertical segments).

Overall, it's just an average game that didn't inherit the best features of the game it ripped off. Personally, I think there's enough Contras, Metal Slugs, and miscellaneous others (Gunstar Heroes, Gunforce 2) out there to make this game irrelevant.

OptimusPrimeX · Post by **OptimusPrimeX** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:14 am

dementia wrote:No

here's a good analysis:
http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/gh.htm

interesting.. after reading through it.. this is what i found

http://www.media-vision.co.jp/soft/soft.html

check the left side of the page,,,, .. looks like they developed it.

I'm still curious after reading that article, if any Treasure members had anything to do with that whatsoever... it seroiusly looks like its a possibility, or just blatant rip as said

I cant wait to get this game. I <3 the 2d graphics, and i'm sure playing with a friend would be tons of fun. Guess i'll find out when i acquire the game. And none of you better be bidding over me!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol ....

King Slime · Post by **King Slime** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:21 am

99pence wrote:
King Slime wrote:Could you describe the gameplay and what makes it bland? I'm just interested in knowing.

That's a great line.

'Can you describe why it's so bland?'

'Errr no, so it must be.'

I've been saying some really stupid things in this thread, haven't I...

Oh by the way, thanks for eloborating Davey, even though what I said was idiotic.