What Are You Reading?

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rapoon
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by rapoon »

Blindsight, like most cyberpunk novels, is about humanity. It's about transcending humanity, and what happens when we do. It's about finding humanity in the midst of technological overload, and how or why we should do this.
This is the crux of our differing in interpretations. There's no character transcendence in half the books we've previously mentioned, and I'll slap a short story compilation on the list for good fun: Mirrorshades. Undoubtedly, it exists in Neuromancer and Mona Lisa Overdrive. But Snow Crash?
Spoiler
Hiro writing a piece of software to stop a virus doesn't constitute elevation to a higher plane. There's nothing more to it, that's why the book ends abruptly afterwards.
A common denominator with most of the books and short stories is a societal gulf left in the wake of technological advances. 0.01% of the earths population living in low-orbit in Neuromancer and the remainder living in squalor doesn't constitute transcendence of humanity or consciousness. The largest city in the world, the caravan thousands of miles long that's creeping north in Snow Crash? Those people aren't advancing at the helm of technology; they're escaping it. The half of million living on refuse who wash up on Californian shores with the flotsam? Same thing.
Spoiler
Siri Keeton is as Cyberpunk as protagonists get. Blindsight doesn't really hammer home how alien its characters are, and how much they've transcended their humanity with technology, engineering and other advanced methods, until you read a bit into the story. You learn the multiple personalities are cultivated for purpose. The doctor seems inhuman because his humanity is spread across numerous robotic instruments. His flesh is merely a wrapping-whatever "him" exists, exists out there in the vast organism which he becomes when linked with his tools. Amanda Bates isn't a soldier-she's the entire Army. She's the entire military-industrial complex condensed into a single frame and then linked to an infinite supply of combat drones.

And vampires are the most inhuman of all. What was it you said, "high tech, low life?" A vampire doesn't have higher thoughts. But it uses higher technology. It sits at the top of the food chain, with a beyond-genius IQ, yet is barely conscious of itself.

Blindsight isn't a novel about encountering an alien out there. It's a novel about encountering the alien inside us. Every character in the expedition is inhuman to some degree. They've been engineered to the gills, all to remain relevant in a world where human skillsets have been outpaced by AI and vampires.

To be fair, Watts doesn't spend all that much time discussing the ways that the characters have been modified. But we do get little bits here and there. I think the purpose in his framing is to allow the reader to form opinions of the characters which are incorrect. We believe that Siri Keeton is emotionless and vulcan-like because he tells us he is. We believe the captain is a dangerous predator because we are told so. But all of the information we receive is filtered through Siri, an unreliable narrator.

If you think Schismatrix Plus is cyberpunk, then how can you say Blindsight is not? Both are consumed with the question of humanity and both are set in a far-flung future, where genetic engineering and technology are used to design and modify "better" people. Aliens exist in Schismatrix as well. The "Hive" story in Schismatrix Plus is particularly relevant to Blindsight. The thesis is almost exactly the same. Hell, the structure isn't dissimilar.
Spoiler
- Don't disagree with the majority of your points.
- Whether is an internal or external discovery is irrelevant. First contact is a critical facet of the book.
- I'm not sure with a "cyberpunk protagaonist" is.... Case, Hiro, Turner, and Count have nothing in common with Keeton. They have very little in common with each other.
- I didn't say or coin "high tech, low life". The source of that wonderfully succinct phrase is Bruce Sterling.
- I have no opinion on Schismatrix Plus as I haven't read it, which is why I never mentioned it or made a comparison.
- You'd probably enjoy this presentation about vampires by Watts if you haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEOUaJW05bU

Cyberpunk is a nebulous genre in the first place, and ranged from the almost entirely incorporeal Matrix to grounded-and-gritty Terminator.
Perpetuate the bastardization and stretch the definition as thin as tissue, and it's hardly a surprise that we're left with the asinine depictions and categorizations we have now. Hardly unusual for a novel to span multiple genres. I guess now just about everything by Clarke, Heinlein, and Niven are "cyberpunk", regardless of whether you find them entertaining or "boring as fuck".

But whatever you call it, I still recommend reading Blindsight.
Phenomenal book. Couldn't agree more.

One other note =)
So many cyberpunk, science fiction-y kind of stories end up derivative of Snow Crash. They'll have this video game, street samurai, neo-noir, techo-retro aesthetic. At its worst, it feels like little more than reading a Shadowrun campaign. So I prefer tales of the bizarre and out-there.

With the super power of hindsight, it's easy how people can be dismissive or oblivious to Snow Crash's influence (or foreshadowing) on the real world. Three off the top of my head: gargoyles (smart phones and all IoT devices perform the same function), "Earth" (Google Earth), and the obvious Metaverse. In my experience with peers or co-workers it's far more popular with devs and infosec because of it's undeniable influence on actual, real tech. I’m continually flabbergasted at the heaps of literary and electronic shit and clones spawned from both Snow Crash and Neuromancer.
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Herr Schatten
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by Herr Schatten »

Sima Tuna wrote:The rest of Gibson's work didn't grab me like Neuromancer.
Did you read Pattern Recognition? It might be my favorite Gibson novel, and the only one I rate higher than Neuromancer and its direct sequels.
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by Sima Tuna »

Herr Schatten wrote:
Sima Tuna wrote:The rest of Gibson's work didn't grab me like Neuromancer.
Did you read Pattern Recognition? It might be my favorite Gibson novel, and the only one I rate higher than Neuromancer and its direct sequels.
I didn't read that one, no. I read all the short stories, Neuromancer, Mona Lisa, Count Zero and probably a few others I've forgotten. But not Pattern Recognition. I'll have to give it a try.

As to rapoon's points, it's fine if we disagree. I would argue that Wintermute and the Colonel are characters who invoke transhumanism. As is Molly. What does it mean to change that much of yourself? What do you become as a person? Molly's life before becoming who she is, too. Technology enabling the olden profession on earth to become even more heartless. Molly's modifications, do they make her more human or less? And Wintermute isn't human at all, but is he becoming human-like? What are the ramifications of that? Then you have the Colonel, who is undeniably "human" but seems barely sentient. Cage, too, transcends humanity when he's hacking, and his return to his physical shell is often marked by numerous symptoms, including temporary death. He loves becoming more than what he is, even when it's killing him.

Technology and Transhumanism are two major themes of cyberpunk. I mentioned Schismatrix Plus because it's undeniably cyberpunk. Whenever you ask someone for cyberpunk recommendations, Schismatrix Plus is always brought out alongside Neuromancer, Snow Crash, Johnny Mnemonic, the 'Ware tetraology etc etc. So the literary world all agree Schismatrix is cyberpunk.

You mention the storm of imitators of Snow Crash and Neuromancer. I agree that this is a problem within the genre. Actually, I think it's a product of authors retaining a very narrow view of what Cyberpunk can be. They read only Snow Crash, Neuromancer, Altered Carbon and then they think that is what every cyberpunk story must have, down to the details. Schismatrix Plus and Wetware are much different from Neuromancer. But all three are cyberpunk. They are all stories about how technology changes us, whether it should, what are the effects of these changes on all levels of society (rich and poor) and how we ought to live in response. Usually that final point is at the conclusion of most cyberpunk novels. Whether to burn out or fade away, whether to transcend or return to simpler existence. And whether it's possible even to choose.
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Rhymes with giggle

Post by Lander »

In The Cage: A Guide to Sigil
A Planescape lorebook seems unusual fare for bedtime reading, but I started it alongside my recent first run of Planescape: Torment and it's proven to be a great companion piece that's heavy on texture and light on statistics.

I have little point of reference for D&D outside of Infinity Engine games, but if this is anything to go by then I've been missing out on all manner of cracking fantasy work - full of quality art, accounts of the titular city from various inhabitants' perspective, and records of notable histories from the fiction. It lays out the dark of the matter for berks like myself who can't tell a blood from a cutter, and that's the chant - so to speak :)

In particular, I've been enjoying the Lady of Pain; rad design aside, I've had a soft spot unpredictable overarching forces since the probability storms from Chris Wooding's Storm Thief. So the idea of a godlike being in a world of codified magic-religion that behaves mysteriously, never speaks, violently rejects worship, and can eviscerate or pocket-dimension you on a whim is great.

I have Die Vecna Die! on the list for when I eventually finish this, which seems like one of the great works of its edition if word on the street is to be believed.
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what are you beating?

Post by NYN »

Finished and enjoyed We Have Always Lived in the Castle by Shirley Jackson. Easily the most horrific tale I have read from her. No monster or ghosts haunting, the psychological damaged reign supreme here. Fun at first, yet later I found out that the damaged are not getting better or have any pursuit of betterment. Having their own asylum, all is neat with the world. Oof.

Started The Hunter by Richard Stark. Basis for some media adaptations, I might read more of this book series. The one trait of Parker I found impressive is...he never surrenders to groups. Heist is multi-men job? OK. Split the cash, don't stick around. He will never sell-out and let some company (of men) own him. Tough guy.
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2 hot

Post by NYN »

Finished one, then started another. Heat 2. Thanks to Gaijin Punch for blipping it on my radar! As the text tells, a "smooth, not fast" read, including a concice recap refresher, if the movie epic is a little out of memory. Prose style is maybe not exactly minimalist, which I prefer mostly; more descriptive as a script is. The premise of having a "before" and "after" to create room from the movie is much obliged. I connect the idea mostly to The Godfather Part 2, maybe there are others.

Something I find enjoying is that I will not expect an adaptation from this. The boys are old now and dead, so it leaves all to the own guided (through the movie) imagination. Maybe there will be a re-boot streaming mini-epic event with new faces. As it now goes more often than not. I wouldn't waste my motherfuckin' time !!

New dig discovered: name directors from back who bring their stuff exclusively to the page. Cronenberg did it. Mann here.
And I will check out the book that De Palma wrote. Seems all like nifty ideas.
"I've transmuted into a super being. I'll proof it by killing you." -NGIII ( words to kill by )
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that fine cereal

Post by NYN »

Not to take anything away from Heat 2, yet halfway through I notice a severe lack of humour in it. To this end, I started Breakfast of Champions, and it's hilarious. My first contact with Vonnegut. Yeah, I know, everybody says Slaughterhouse-Five, it's just that I don't play that way (I'd pick Ride the Lightning over Master of Puppets anytime). The fun is how "impolite" it is in telling things. For example: It explains how the term "beaver" was coined by photographers for the female sex parts, and then continues by showing a drawn picture by the author of the animal. Followed by a picture of the lady part. "This is where babies came from.". It's about insanity and American society, and the fringe people that only get on others radars by acts of violence. Somehow the tone is close in narration to Ron Howard for Arrested Development. Yes, those are crazies, just look at them go. From that I would say Kurt Vonnegut chose laughter as a tonic, instead of despair for the human condition.

And Mother Night sounds rad, too!
"I've transmuted into a super being. I'll proof it by killing you." -NGIII ( words to kill by )
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by vol.2 »

Reread Last Chance to See, by Douglas Adams and Mark Carwardine for the first time in 30 something years. It's still really fun. I know Adams can be a bit dry and over-wrought for some people, but it's okay for me in small doses. I don't know if I could stomach the entire HHGTTG series again, but maybe Dirk Gently. It's too bad he never finished the third Gently book.

If you haven't read Last Chance to See, and you're interested in endangered species and travelogue stuff, give it a shot. It's broken up into sections on different journeys, so it's pretty easy to pick up for short spurts.
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by BrainΦΠΦTemple »

saw neurOmancer mentioned. william gibson ownz

anywAy, been reading this. trippy lil rEad so far
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/987 ... Ghost_seer
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straight outta Howard

Post by NYN »

Finished the two. Now what? The Destroyer of Worlds: A Return to Lovecraft Country by Matt Ruff. Surprised and delighted to find this on the shelfs, when I read the original novel about a year ago. Clear go for me. The HBO show (which I saw after reading) has all the wild markings of pushing at bounderies, which I find fairly impressing (re-watching now). The books are more grounded, yet never mundane. The right pitch between "that's a fact" :shock: and "the fiction" :o .
"I've transmuted into a super being. I'll proof it by killing you." -NGIII ( words to kill by )
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by Stevens »

Just started Outlive by Peter Attia. Big fan of this guys work.
My lord, I have come for you.
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and so on

Post by NYN »

Aha. Sounds like something my gal partner would find interesting. But she doesn't enjoy reading. May I ask why you read it?

I very seldom read to "gain" something. May it be knowledge or perspective. I like philosophy, and disdain anything resembling a system. When I discover ideas that are unknown to me, that's where I can get excited. Yet I don't grind or mine for them. Fiction does it for me at most times.

Here is what Kurt Vonnegut wrote about ideas:
Breakfast of Champions wrote:Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease!
etc.
"I've transmuted into a super being. I'll proof it by killing you." -NGIII ( words to kill by )
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by Stevens »

I have a lot of interest that fall within the realm of strength calisthenics, nutrition, proper sleep ect.

Guys like Attia, Andrew Huberman, Jeff Caviliere are at the forefront of human training/performance/longevity and are all way smarter than I am. Even some that are no longer living - George Hackenschmidt have a wealth of information that is still very much relevant today.
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by ryu »

I'm almost through Carl Sagan's Cosmos from 1980. I expected a slightly outdated tour of astrophysics, but it's more of a portrait of the human condition at large. Probably the best book I've read so far.
blog - scores - collection
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by BrainΦΠΦTemple »

ryu wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 7:26 pm I'm almost through Carl Sagan's Cosmos from 1980. I expected a slightly outdated tour of astrophysics, but it's more of a portrait of the human condition at large. Probably the best book I've read so far.
siCk book. (check out the dragons of eden tOo)

-----------------------

been taking a break frOm superplayz and catching up on reading right now.
finished reading alastair reynolds' chasm city, and now i'm reading d.j. huntington moore's a metaphysics of the cOmputer. was kind of a pain in the ass to get a cOpy of it =x

a few i have planned after tHat 1 are:
carl sagan's the cosmic connectiOn
richard adam's the plague dogs
martin heidegger's introduction to metaphysics
clive barker's weavewOrld
jules verne's journey to the center of the eArth
john wood omAn's natural and the supernatural
isaac asimov's the rObots of dawn
herman melville's mOby dick
ray s. jackendoff's (<-- d00d has the most insane fukken last name ever) semantic interpretations in generative grammAr
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as SIN as KEV as ITCH

Post by NYN »

Bill Sienkiewicz: ReV0LUTI0N

An art book with additional text, about the art and the artist, with his participation. Published by Six Foot Press. First one of planned 3.
That's easy. Gorgeous and surreal images, not excluding one another. Comic characters, movie concepts, or just sketches. With Elektra: Assassin already a fave, I'll progress now to reading Stray Toasters. I don't expect to be the same reader after. Did also the Marvel adaptation for the Lynch Dune back when, which is fascinating stuff, though not included in this.
"I've transmuted into a super being. I'll proof it by killing you." -NGIII ( words to kill by )
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Re: as SIN as KEV as ITCH

Post by vol.2 »

NYN wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:53 pm Bill Sienkiewicz: ReV0LUTI0N
Love Bill Sienkiewicz. Reading his New Mutants stuff really opened up my eyes to what could be done in comics. Up until that point, I had only read basic superhero comics and stuff from cartoon IPs, and his run on that comic in particular sparked my interest in more artistic stuff

Although I did actually like X-Force, even though I recognize that Rob Liefeld's drawing is technically pretty bad, the deformed perspective appealed to me at the time and I still find it kind of charming and nostalgic.
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by EmperorIng »

I just finished Felix the Cat: The Twisted Tale of the World's First Cartoon Superstar by John Canemaker.

Really fascinating. My only childhood experience with Felix was the Van Beuren color shorts that we had on a giant VHS of hours of old cartoons that I would watch over and over again, but I've been interested in old animation for the last few years and dove in.

Truly in some ways, even more fascinating than the actual cartoons - backroom deals, betrayals, alcohol, statutory rape, hubris, and more... It's a wonder felix is even remembered when his creators were so deep in shit. The main animator for the cartoons in its heyday was too spineless to stand up for himself and let the studios and his partner push him into obscurity for over 50 years. Oof, it's a rough business, capitalism and all that, but if all you have are promises that doesn't exactly pay the bills at the end of the day.

Image

It's made me order another book from the library, a history of the Raggedy Ann and Andy movie from the 70s, which is a movie I've always really liked despite its flaws. Such beautiful animation from Richard Williams and his crew.
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Win with Wind

Post by NYN »

vol.2 wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:22 pm
Love Bill Sienkiewicz. Reading his New Mutants stuff really opened up my eyes to what could be done in comics. Up until that point, I had only read basic superhero comics and stuff from cartoon IPs, and his run on that comic in particular sparked my interest in more artistic stuff
Similar feelings, only with Elektra: Assassin as the subject. Re-read that last year. A stunner every time. So kinetic, rock'n'roll that it's almost metal. A psychotic gal set out to slay a apocalyptic beast, who grooms a cut-out candidate to set off end of worlds by nuclear fire, with cyborgs and ninja between them, as an art project that takes it to the absurd through humour right to farce. And then some more. Unsurpassed.

I'm reluctant about mutant soaps, is New Mutants bearable from the writing point? Really rolling-eyes territory for me.

Though BS said that he cut his teeth on Moon Knight, it's to the end of the tenure that he broke out of any expectation, maybe I just skip to that point.
"I've transmuted into a super being. I'll proof it by killing you." -NGIII ( words to kill by )
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Re: Win with Wind

Post by vol.2 »

NYN wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:51 am
vol.2 wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:22 pm
Love Bill Sienkiewicz. Reading his New Mutants stuff really opened up my eyes to what could be done in comics. Up until that point, I had only read basic superhero comics and stuff from cartoon IPs, and his run on that comic in particular sparked my interest in more artistic stuff
Similar feelings, only with Elektra: Assassin as the subject. Re-read that last year. A stunner every time. So kinetic, rock'n'roll that it's almost metal. A psychotic gal set out to slay a apocalyptic beast, who grooms a cut-out candidate to set off end of worlds by nuclear fire, with cyborgs and ninja between them, as an art project that takes it to the absurd through humour right to farce. And then some more. Unsurpassed.

I'm reluctant about mutant soaps, is New Mutants bearable from the writing point? Really rolling-eyes territory for me.

Though BS said that he cut his teeth on Moon Knight, it's to the end of the tenure that he broke out of any expectation, maybe I just skip to that point.
New Mutants started off life at a time when Marvel was losing interest on it's main stories due to them being long in the tooth, and it wanted to "bring in new blood" in both storytelling and personnel. It starts off as a coming-of-age tale, focused on a group of teenage misfits. It's almost like an Xman version of the The Breakfast Club or something. But it's infused with that 80s teen angst fervor and style. By the time Sienkiewicz signed on, it had morphed into a psychedelic fantasy novel inspired odyssey, borrowing heavily from the current trends in D&D and from Surrealist art.

Would you possibly enjoy it if you didn't care for mutant dramas? Not sure. You would probably have to sit through a couple graphic novels worth of story setup just to get to best part where the writing really evolves (before Sienkiewicz even gets there).

For what it's worth, I'm not a big mutant or superhero in tights fan myself. I stopped buying new superhero books in like 1993, but I reread the prime era of New Mutants about 5 years ago, and I thoroughly enjoyed it

I've never read Electra, It's always been on my todo list. For some reason, I didn't realize that it was a Sienkiewicz book, probably because Frank Miller wrote it, I just assumed he did the artwork, just like he did for Ronin around the same time.

Moon Knight is super cool. He's not really a mutant drama guy either. It's more of a mystical power thing.
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by AGermanArtist »

Bill Sienkiewicz - there's a name I haven't heard in a while. I used to pursue art until I dropped out of school and him Kev O'Neil and Simon Bisley were my life back then. I loved those guys.
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eyes with out a face of terror

Post by NYN »

AGermanArtist wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:31 am Bill Sienkiewicz - there's a name I haven't heard in a while.
I did not know for the longest period that he is the artist for the '96 Resident Evil cover illustration. :idea: It gains another dimension for me now.

JP BI0 HAZARD only has the bloody eye, which is in sync with the title screen, but...
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more where that left from

Post by NYN »

An interview with Jordan Mechner by The Comics Journal.
Catching up, it's gratifying to read that he's obviously more then "the guy who did PoP".
As stated, there was a new PoP project around 2016 with Mechner, that never got announced before being canceled. :shock:

ed: the comics journal > the comic book journal
Last edited by NYN on Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Are You Reading?

Post by blazinglazers69 »

Just finished Kafka on the Shore last night. Beautiful, comfy novel. I liked all of the metaphysical transference between the characters with cause and effect being out of wack and the demonic entity. Just really cool stuff. It kind of reminded me of something like Thomas Pynchon without being so fucking opaque and intimidating. Great characters, great sex scenes, harrowing violence, humor, love, it's all in there. Great starting point if you've never read the guy.
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