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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:28 pm 


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bloodflowers wrote:
MX7 wrote:
PsikyoPshumpPshooterP wrote:
is there an option to block users?


This.


It's disabled.


jpj wrote:
your reason for not enabling it is not something that really happens with this type of forum (php something?). you see a sentence saying that someone on your list has made a post, and click on it to view. we have this feature on arcadeotaku, and there are no disjointed conversations, so you don't have to be worried about that :wink:
[...]


I'm a member of half-a-dozen or so other forums, and they have this function enabled.

I'd like to hear what is meant by "disjointed"?

Nonetheless, kudos for the forum updates though. : )
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:55 pm 


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If someone is really so aggrivating, they'll be dealt with by a mod, not by everyone slapping Ignore.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:02 pm 


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Udderdude wrote:
If someone is really so aggrivating, they'll be dealt with by a mod, not by everyone slapping Ignore.


That depends on the mods involved and your point-of-view of what "aggravating" means; and doesn't explain why the funtion is disabled, and what is meant by "disjointed". And if "everyone" slaps on "ignore", then there's something intrinsically 'wrong' with the community at large anyway...

EDIT: Bunch of typos...
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:17 pm 


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Adults don't stick their fingers in their ears and say 'la la la la' when something they don't like is said.

As for disjointed: C is ignoring A
A) Yes, I found it at this website
B) Wow, do they have many in stock?
C) Do they have what in stock?

It happens on IRC ALL THE TIME.
It happens on XBL (actually due to bad NAT) ALL THE TIME.

So, we're not going to help people perpetrate this petty need to ignore people, when they could just /not read the post/.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:58 pm 


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bloodflowers wrote:
Adults don't stick their fingers in their ears and say 'la la la la' when something they don't like is said.

As for disjointed: C is ignoring A
A) Yes, I found it at this website
B) Wow, do they have many in stock?
C) Do they have what in stock?

It happens on IRC ALL THE TIME.
It happens on XBL (actually due to bad NAT) ALL THE TIME.

So, we're not going to help people perpetrate this petty need to ignore people, when they could just /not read the post/.


Besides using your admin powers, or having a shitty day or a lack of a sense of humour; explain to me this banning (basically, a temporary ignore):

viewtopic.php?p=457160#p457160

What was so "adult" about that, bloodflowers?

I'm from an ethnic background, my family and I have heard far worse in real life; and putting our proverbial fingers in our ears is not difficult, nor is walking away: So we are not "adults"?

And you still haven't explained what you mean by "disjointed", besides saying: 'just because it happens all the time', therefore let it be (and I can't be bothered to help, even though I could), but I can ban users when I like?... "Adult"?

The forum software has this function, and you still haven't explained why it's disabled; rather implying users are not adults for using this function (patronising), and it's just 'the way it is' in other modes of communication...
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:02 pm 



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There is a broken link problem.

Topic URLS are of the form
Code:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?...

but they used to be
Code:
http://shmups.system11.org/forum/viewtopic.php?...

which is now 404.

Therefore old links to discussion threads are now broken, for example the one in Ruldra's post in an old thread I started (the case I noticed) and of course links from other sites (e.g. a random page that I found with Google).

Some internal links, like those from the strategy board index, are already updated.

Redirecting old URLs to the new ones would be a nice improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:15 pm 


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like i mentioned previously, the post is not invisible. if person C is ignoring user A, and is curious what question B is responding to, you simply click the post that says "user A has made a post" and you can view it. i don't know what IRC is, but on forums it works really well.

you're slightly jumping to conclusions as well. i mainly use it on AO to ignore people who are boring, people always asking inane questions, people who are only interested in selling stuff, etc.

take that kid with the turkey avatar. he mainly posted spam like "LOL" or if he was particularly fruity "LOLOLOLOLOLOL XD" and was eventually banned for it. some people agreed with the decision, some people not. if you had an ignore feature enabled, people who find him boring could have those posts ignored/minimised, while those who don't mind him can go on as normal, and you wouldn't have had to ban him. doesn't that make more sense?

and also what herr shaton said. i can never remember what i've read, what i haven't read, and what i had no interest in reading. so having only new posts show up since you logged out was pretty useful :)
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:21 pm 


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j^aws wrote:
bloodflowers wrote:
Adults don't stick their fingers in their ears and say 'la la la la' when something they don't like is said.

As for disjointed: C is ignoring A
A) Yes, I found it at this website
B) Wow, do they have many in stock?
C) Do they have what in stock?

It happens on IRC ALL THE TIME.
It happens on XBL (actually due to bad NAT) ALL THE TIME.

So, we're not going to help people perpetrate this petty need to ignore people, when they could just /not read the post/.


Besides using your admin powers, or having a shitty day or a lack of a sense of humour; explain to me this banning (basically, a temporary ignore):

viewtopic.php?p=457160#p457160

What was so "adult" about that, bloodflowers?

I'm from an ethnic background, my family and I have heard far worse in real life; and putting our proverbial fingers in our ears is not difficult, nor is walking away: So we are not "adults"?

And you still haven't explained what you mean by "disjointed", besides saying: 'just because it happens all the time', therefore let it be (and I can't be bothered to help, even though I could), but I can ban users when I like?... "Adult"?

The forum software has this function, and you still haven't explained why it's disabled; rather implying users are not adults for using this function (patronising), and it's just 'the way it is' in other modes of communication...


I explained exactly why it's disabled, because people ignoring other people will miss parts of conversations and then get confused and start asking questions they don't need to in a topic. That's what my post shows, it's fairly obvious if you care to read it instead of stamping your feet. That's the official reason - but there are others! One would be that having a whole concept of "friends and foes" encourages the kind of disharmony we want to avoid, and yet another could be "because we don't like it", or simply "because it's Tuesday". This was not my decision alone, it was discussed by the administrators and WE were in agreement that WE don't want it.

Your little outburst on the matter including trawling my posts (have fun with that, could take a while), and your response to the people who were harassing you in that infamous thread, all suggest that indeed you aren't an adult, and I was bang on with my estimation.

As for that banning - let's see, someone makes fun of a pretty serious ailment people suffer from, and they get a banned for a week. Hm, smells like justice to me actually, or perhaps education.


Now can we please get back on topic? This thread is for the discussion of BUGS in the software and the theme, something we're working very hard to address where we can. A turned off feature is not a bug, we turned attachments off too, we turned a lot of things off, and we turned some on, and we did this based on what we consider to be the best for this forum, not the vest for /you/. Take a few tips from jpj, he knows how to make a point I can read and appreciate.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:25 pm 


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Ixmucane2 wrote:
There is a broken link problem.

Topic URLS are of the form
Code:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?...

but they used to be
Code:
http://shmups.system11.org/forum/viewtopic.php?...

which is now 404.

Therefore old links to discussion threads are now broken, for example the one in Ruldra's post in an old thread I started (the case I noticed) and of course links from other sites (e.g. a random page that I found with Google).

Some internal links, like those from the strategy board index, are already updated.

Redirecting old URLs to the new ones would be a nice improvement.


Yes we're aware of this one, just not entirely sure what to do about it. The thing is, that old /forum/ thing was actually ancient history - we've been trying to stop people using it, but nobody would update their bookmarks - a fresh user using the forum would never have seen that. Also there are historic posts (which are probably the majority) which contain it, because it was correct at the time.

One option is to somehow scan all the posts for them and fix them. I'm not sure how practical this is. The other is to put the hack back in, but then we're stuck with it again. I'll think of something.

Edit: new option - we could have a custom 404 page which details the change.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:19 pm 


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bloodflowers wrote:
I explained exactly why it's disabled, because people ignoring other people will miss parts of conversations and then get confused and start asking questions they don't need to in a topic.


You didn't explicitly explain that.

Also, a user may just be 'lazy' or can't be 'bothered', or 'care' enough and just 'ignore' a bunch of threads anyway, or posts; and "will miss parts of conversations" anyway for a bunch of other reasons besides using an "ignore" function. And may or may not get "confused". It's not as if "questions" aren't repeated on the forums anyway...

bloodflowers wrote:
That's what my post shows, it's fairly obvious if you care to read it instead of stamping your feet.


I did read it. It wasn't obvious to me; and when things aren't, I ask for clarification. You're imagining me "stamping" my feet; I certainly wasn't. You had a chance to explain to a few users on the previous page regarding the function, but you didn't. Hence, why I asked.

bloodflowers wrote:
That's the official reason - but there are others! One would be that having a whole concept of "friends and foes" encourages the kind of disharmony we want to avoid, and yet another could be "because we don't like it", or simply "because it's Tuesday". This was not my decision alone, it was discussed by the administrators and WE were in agreement that WE don't want it.


Like I said, you could've explained that in the previous page, without me asking. One of your reasons for not encouraging "disharmony" is more than a worthwhile one. But one could argue this has already been reached to a certain extent, and the introduction of the function would do little to change the status quo, (only to satisfy a few (?), that may or may not use it anyway)...

bloodflowers wrote:
Your little outburst on the matter including trawling my posts (have fun with that, could take a while),


You may read it as an outburst'; but it wasn't. And I stumbled upon that link, not because I was trawling, but using the "post history" function as it was intended to be used; using it for another user that was involved in a thread I was posting in, purely out of interest and curiosity...

bloodflowers wrote:
and your response to the people who were harassing you in that infamous thread, all suggest that indeed you aren't an adult, and I was bang on with my estimation.


You are assuming a lot. You don't really know WHY and WHEN someone went on my ignore list; you can imagine and estimate all you want. And label me all you want. If the forum had an ignore function, none of the above would've been necessary, except mods/ admins enforcing my wishes, to use a forum function, that's widely available on other forums...

bloodflowers wrote:
As for that banning - let's see, someone makes fun of a pretty serious ailment people suffer from, and they get a banned for a week. Hm, smells like justice to me actually, or perhaps education.


That's your point-of-view. And exactly my point. Indeed, I actually saw the humour, but instead, you opted for the ban... (aka temporary ignore)...

bloodflowers wrote:
Now can we please get back on topic? This thread is for the discussion of BUGS in the software and the theme, something we're working very hard to address where we can. A turned off feature is not a bug, we turned attachments off too, we turned a lot of things off, and we turned some on, and we did this based on what we consider to be the best for this forum, not the vest for /you/.


I didn't raise this point in this thread. And I'm certainly not asking what's "best" for me (because this function is default on many forums). You could've explained your position in the previous page, when it was raised by others. I can fully appreciate that you're working hard, but working "hard" shouldn't cloud any points that people try to raise.

bloodflowers wrote:
Take a few tips from jpj, he knows how to make a point I can read and appreciate.


On the contrary, you ignored/ misread/ avoided his point (and others) on the previous page. But perhaps you don't want to argue points that I can discuss. And I don't need to imply whether one is an "adult" or not for raising such a point...
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:52 pm 


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Yeah bloodflowers, can we get an ignore function? It would go great right about now.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:45 pm 


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Bloody hell - he we go again!

I vote we all try and just get on, and when we want to just ignore somebody do exactly that. Just ignore them with our brains and eyes and whatever we're using. No need to click a button an make it permanent or explicit.

And I agree it would start to break up the flow and clarity of the threads if some people weren't seeing everything - that would just lead to those 'ignoring' posting irrelevant posts and confusing the crap out of scatterbrained idiots like me.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:49 pm 



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I prefer the option to "View new posts" to be at the top of the option list.

I have been using the top option in auto pilot for a week now and only just noticed its not "view new posts" anymore :lol:

I thought everyone done a runner.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:02 pm 


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Quote:
This post was made by spadgy who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:47 am 


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I like all this stuff RAW & UNCUT, no matter how much I disagree with/dislike some people.

Though I sometimes disagree, I think the mods have a pretty good grasp of what's tolerable and what's not.

No "ignore" function please!
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:00 am 


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Make sure you guys bitch and moan to the moderator a bit more... you know, the one that runs this place for nothing. I'm sure you'll eventually change his mind...right?
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:38 am 


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jpj wrote:
Quote:
This post was made by spadgy who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post


Oi!

However - does that happen? You get a 'Display this post' option? I guess that would help, but the very fact that you can then choose to view it makes the process a little redundant. Basically - [what Super Laydock just said]. The last thing us lot need is the ability to self-mod this place. Even a hint of that is enough. And really - some of us feel the need to not be able to even see posts by people we disagree with, or don't like? Do people need to shield themselves that much? Just Superglue cotton wool all over your monitor...

That's what I'm going to do every time I see a post by jpj, though I'm not sure how I'll scroll down without seeing stuff! I'll also be holding a piece of carboard over your face if we meet at IC09 :wink:

GaijinPunch wrote:
Make sure you guys bitch and moan to the moderator a bit more... you know, the one that runs this place for nothing. I'm sure you'll eventually change his mind...right?


Was that at us? I thought the mods were against 'ignore' functionality too. I also think they do an amazing job which I really appreciate, and I'd never want to discredit their efforts...
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:46 am 


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It happens on some forums, but not here.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:55 am 



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bloodflowers wrote:
Ixmucane2 wrote:
There is a broken link problem.

Topic URLS are of the form
Code:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?...

but they used to be
Code:
http://shmups.system11.org/forum/viewtopic.php?...

which is now 404.
...
Redirecting old URLs to the new ones would be a nice improvement.

...
Edit: new option - we could have a custom 404 page which details the change.

A 301 answer (permanent redirect) would be better than a 404: the obsolete link would "work" transparently, bookmarks would be automatically updated, and PHP could be optionally used to display a warning that the URL is obsolete.

Updating old posts would be a painful effort even if done automatically and outside links would remain incorrect; serving something useful at the old URLs is the only solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:05 am 


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Ixmucane2 wrote:
Updating old posts would be a painful effort even if done automatically and outside links would remain incorrect; serving something usful at the old URLs is the only solution.


Well, I'd meant a PHP 404 that looks for broken URLs, and displays a correct link.

As for updating old posts, it's done - wasn't that painful either, tiny Perl script and some SQL.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:19 am 


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bloodflowers wrote:
Well, I'd meant a PHP 404 that looks for broken URLs, and displays a correct link.


Could always make a quick redirect 404 page using Javascript that takes the old URL and adds/cuts out the necessary parts, and then delay-refreshes the page using the new URL.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:25 am 


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Icarus wrote:
bloodflowers wrote:
Well, I'd meant a PHP 404 that looks for broken URLs, and displays a correct link.


Could always make a quick redirect 404 page using Javascript that takes the old URL and adds/cuts out the necessary parts, and then delay-refreshes the page using the new URL.


Yes, but thinking about it, I don't /want/ it to automatically go there. I want that old path dead, it should have been a long time ago. I've also submitted a google 'remove results' request for anything with /forum/ in.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:41 am 


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bloodflowers wrote:
Yes, but thinking about it, I don't /want/ it to automatically go there. I want that old path dead, it should have been a long time ago. I've also submitted a google 'remove results' request for anything with /forum/ in.


Then make the Javascript page just display a note about the change in URL and the edited link, without the redirect? That's easy enough.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:44 am 


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Icarus wrote:
bloodflowers wrote:
Yes, but thinking about it, I don't /want/ it to automatically go there. I want that old path dead, it should have been a long time ago. I've also submitted a google 'remove results' request for anything with /forum/ in.


Then make the Javascript page just display a note about the change in URL and the edited link, without the redirect? That's easy enough.


Well yes, that's what I was planning, but using a PHP 404 page, or a plain 404 with 'if you were trying to get to X'. I don't know Javascript at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:38 am 


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Hey, just throwing this out there. Threads in the Trading Section should be able to be closed by the thread creator.

I'd imagine this would take the work load off some mods. I just finished up a thread which I can't close myself, but would if I could. How about it?
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:45 am 


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Elixir wrote:
Hey, just throwing this out there. Threads in the Trading Section should be able to be closed by the thread creator.

Will lead to people trying to escape people complaining about their prices.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:50 pm 


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In which their thread can't be bumped and it dies?

I still think it's a good idea. If someone's going to do that, it's pretty obvious of them. If anyone's dumb enough to fall for it, they deserve it.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:54 pm 


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spadgy wrote:
jpj wrote:
Quote:
This post was made by spadgy who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post


Oi!

However - does that happen? You get a 'Display this post' option? I guess that would help, but the very fact that you can then choose to view it makes the process a little redundant.


it's mainly used for spammers :) whether that be people who post silly comments, or are forever linking to stuff they have for sale, etc. it helps a lot if you're scrolling through a meaty topic as well.

my point was just that we have this system over at arcadeotaku, and we haven't suffered from disjointed conversations, or had problems from being self-modded. although AO generally has more moderators, and people are a bit older, so it has a bit of a different vibe anyways i guess. i regularly ignore people here with no problems, but it's a bit more convenient with the function, improves readability, less likelihood of getting embroiled in an argument, etc. (secretly i think bloodflowers is worried about having no flame wars :twisted: )

after clicking Display this Post i saw you wrote:

That's what I'm going to do every time I see a post by jpj, though I'm not sure how I'll scroll down without seeing stuff! I'll also be holding a piece of carboard over your face if we meet at IC09 :wink:


i doubt i'll be at IC'09. Chi had offered me a spare bid in a twin room for free, but ideally i'd need the mrs to drive me down and back, and i've only just started a new job a couple of weeks back (bye bye Don McCabe!), so i'm not sure i could get my birthday off, and that weekend as well (and i think the mrs is a bit worried i'd buy an astro and try getting it back in her clio :lol: )

don't pretend you don't love me :P

on topic: is it possible that when you click a link, it opens it up in a new window? it used to do this, i think (not sure)
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:07 pm 


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jpj wrote:
on topic: is it possible that when you click a link, it opens it up in a new window? it used to do this, i think (not sure)


Links always opened up on a new window in the old forum. I sort of miss that feature, too...but I'm sure it can be easily remedied.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum software / theme bugs thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:10 pm 



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jpj wrote:
on topic: is it possible that when you click a link, it opens it up in a new window?
That's probably the most obnoxious thing that a website can do without the aid of JavaScript. Any decent browser has an "open in new window/tab" function; it's even bound to the middle mouse button by default on Firefox and IE7/8.


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