Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram for the Xbox Live Arcade

Zaarock · Post by **Zaarock** » Sun May 24, 2009 6:33 pm

SAM wrote:For the vulcan, it seems that if your opponents is hit by some attacks when he is trying to fire something, the action is canceled. And it seems the vulcan could just do this thing, but I am not 100% sure. If this is true, then fire the vulcan a lots make science.

Yeah, this is true. the vulcan also fires even on three vertical levels when air dash attacking so its good to use along with daggers when your center weapon isnt ready or you have to side air dash(center weapon in side air dash is pretty weak).

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Sun May 24, 2009 7:08 pm

SAM wrote:Well, to my surprise I find quite a lots of Aph B/C players actually are not very good at CC themselves.

I avoid CC pretty much all the time, regardless of the opponent's VR and skill level. But a lot of AphB players seem to get a bit overzealous about getting into CC range. Sometimes they dash straight at me, so I just shoot a standing RW and then quickly dash away. Or I side dash and hit them with CW. The match pretty much goes on like that.

I still totally suck against Angelan and Dordray, but jumping RTRW seems to help a lot if you can get the timing right. Dordray's claw/drill combo gets me every time, though. I've gotten a little better at avoiding Angelan's double dragons but they still get me most of the time.

Zaarock · Post by **Zaarock** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:44 pm

http://vo-ot360.sega.jp/column.html

Looks like the game is getting a patch with spectator mode for party lobby and some shading options & other extras like being able to view cypher in ship mode and bal in his various forms in the character edit screen.
Awesome, that spectator mode will make party lobby mode even more fun and its great to see that theyre patching this game with cool stuff like this.

Shumps4Free · Post by **Shumps4Free** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:29 pm

My favorite thing about Virtual On online is that everyone uses the same exact character.

Zaarock · Post by **Zaarock** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:33 pm

Shumps4Free wrote:My favorite thing about Virtual On online is that everyone uses the same exact character.

What, I've found that for example temjins and raidens are pretty much as popular and Fei yen and Aph B are popular as well.

Shumps4Free · Post by **Shumps4Free** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:01 pm

Well I played online the day it came out, and only fought Fei Yens. It got annoying then so I haven't really been online since.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:59 pm

Zaarock wrote:http://vo-ot360.sega.jp/column.html

Blocked by Websense.

But I saw the summary over at OraTan. Another week of "wait until next week" as far a twin stick announcement goes.

It was easier to deal with when I was 99% sure they wouldn't come out, but the fact that they keep delaying the decision means there might actually be a chance.

Shumps4Free wrote:My favorite thing about Virtual On online is that everyone uses the same exact character.

I agreed with you until I found out you weren't talking about Temjin.

As far as popularity goes, here's how I'd rank everybody based on my experience in ranked matches:

1.) Temjin
2.) Fei-Yen
3-9.) Everybody else I didn't list
10.) Cypher
11-12.) Bal series, Specineff
13.) 10/80 Special
14.) Ajim

I don't know why I see so few Specineffs...

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:06 pm

For those of you playing this game that don't follow the board at OraTan (anybody?):

- Hori will be releasing twin sticks!

- Well, maybe. They will be pre-order only and they won't make them at all if they don't get enough orders.
- Even then, they won't come out until November.
- $306 at current exchange rates. Seriously. Then factor in importer markup, astronomical shipping, and tax. Then cry.

Still, it's pretty amazing that a niche online-only game is getting a custom peripheral. Maybe.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:02 pm

- $306 at current exchange rates. Seriously. Then factor in importer markup, astronomical shipping, and tax. Then cry.

FUCK THAT.....

I'm off to mod my DC stick.... that didn't cost me over 300.00 dollars even though I bought them new at launch. Get real.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:23 pm

The news came from Sega, I think. Hori hasn't made their official announcement yet. When they do, I wonder if they'll be addressing why these cost like 5x more than the Saturn and DC ones did when they came out. I understand economy of scale has to do with it, but I don't think that alone can account for that kind of price hike.

Play-Asia still has used DC sticks for $99!

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:39 am

strange coincidence. I just bought the game too.

mrtie · Post by **mrtie** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:50 am

I finally picked it up, need to buy another month of live, looks nice on the HDTV.

Hey Dave you ever get around to modding the sticks yet? I may be able to help ya with that if you still need someone, if you might wanna give me a deal on your extra twin stick so i can make one my self, or even if not.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:14 am

Posting this before I forget. Here's someone going through the process of modding twin sticks to work with VOOT:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hageatama/page7/

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:48 am

Davey wrote:For those of you playing this game that don't follow the board at OraTan (anybody?):

- Hori will be releasing twin sticks!
- Well, maybe. They will be pre-order only and they won't make them at all if they don't get enough orders.
- Even then, they won't come out until November.
- $306 at current exchange rates. Seriously. Then factor in importer markup, astronomical shipping, and tax. Then cry.

Still, it's pretty amazing that a niche online-only game is getting a custom peripheral. Maybe.

Amazing, a peripheral that's even more outrageously overpriced than the Otomedius controller.

I mean, it's nice that they're going to be made I guess, but... um, no thanks.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:34 pm

Elixir wrote:Posting this before I forget. Here's someone going through the process of modding twin sticks to work with VOOT:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hageatama/page7/

Menthol Moose posted some guides for DC and Saturn sticks. I'm guessing it's probably the best you'll find in English.
DC
Saturn

mrtie wrote:Hey Dave you ever get around to modding the sticks yet? I may be able to help ya with that if you still need someone, if you might wanna give me a deal on your extra twin stick so i can make one my self, or even if not.

I haven't done anything with my sticks yet for two reasons:

1.) I was waiting to see what was happening with official sticks. If they were reasonably priced I'd just buy those and sell off my other sticks.
2.) I'm a programmer, I don't deal with hardware.

Nor do I know anybody around here that does that sort of thing.

I'd definitely be interested, although I'll have to get back to you later about it. The sticks were in perfect working condition last time I tried them, but that was years and years ago. I'll have to dig my DC out of the abyss in my closet to test them out.

Cthulhu wrote:I mean, it's nice that they're going to be made I guess, but... um, no thanks.

Pretty much. The sad part is that these might flop and send the wrong message to Sega and/or Hori. To their credit, it had to have been a really tough business decision. Before the game was released, they had no idea how many copies would sell, how many people would be willing to buy twin sticks, how much modded sticks would sell for, how long the online community would stay active, etc.

Although I guess they sold more copies than they expected, and it was the top selling XBLA game its first week. Take that, Banjo Tooie!

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:00 pm

Davey wrote:The news came from Sega, I think. Hori hasn't made their official announcement yet. When they do, I wonder if they'll be addressing why these cost like 5x more than the Saturn and DC ones did when they came out. I understand economy of scale has to do with it, but I don't think that alone can account for that kind of price hike.

Well that depends on what the Twin Stick is made of... If they are using a pair of Sanwa JLJ-PL2-8NV (costing 8925yen each) the price is reasonable.

http://www.sanwa-d.co.jp/p_joy-stick4.htm

The Saturn / DC Twinsticks can't compare to arcade machine grade parts.

Consider this:
- Rewiring a Twinsticks for 360 use costs me USD 63 plus 40hrs of work. (I want kicking my ass when I later find out someone is providing the rewiring service for a charge of USD 72...)
- If you go for building one with a pair of Sanwa JLJ-PL2-8NV, it would costs you USD 367 (Sanwa JLJ-PL2-8NV x2; buttons x3; Controller case x1; 360 controller PCB x1) plus 2 weeks of assembly & wiring works. (This figure don't even include the cost of the tools to get the work done.)

So for USD 300, what would I say?

"NOVEMBER? You are too late, I had already built one myself with a pair a pair of Sanwa JLJ-PL2-8V"

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:08 pm

Yeah, Menthol Moose proposed that they might be using those. Are there any advantages to the Sanwa JLJ-PL2-8NV sticks other than durability? I've never really heard any complaints about Saturn or DC sticks as far as performance goes.

If the only advantage is durability, then I think it would have been wiser to use lower grade parts that still work well (if that's even what they're using, but at that price it's likely). Console twin sticks don't need to withstand the beatings of the masses.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:28 am

I wondering why, ever since 天元突破グレンラガン is on air at Animax, there seems to be a lots more Dordray players online...

BTW, why are they all printed their Dordray in red?

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:01 am

The official Twin Sticks Controller open for pre-order now.

http://www.hori.jp/products/xbox360/con ... _stick_ex/

We guess right, Hori used a pairs Sanwa JLJ-PL2-8V mounting in a HRAP case.

For those interested, you would have to use some Japan proxy bidding service to place your order.
(Most of them also providing extended service in purchasing at Japanese online stores.)

Davey wrote:If the only advantage is durability, then I think it would have been wiser to use lower grade parts that still work well (if that's even what they're using, but at that price it's likely). Console twin sticks don't need to withstand the beatings of the masses.

Well, there is no ready made lower grade parts for the Twin Sticks handle, and since they expect to produce the controllers only in small quantity, using Sanwa parts would most likely be the cheapest option. As I heard the the old DC TwinSticks used out of production Seimitsu parts. So Sanwa parts is the only option left now. (producing new low grade parts could lower the unit cost only if they are producing the in large quantity.)

Davey wrote:Yeah, Menthol Moose proposed that they might be using those. Are there any advantages to the Sanwa JLJ-PL2-8NV sticks other than durability? I've never really heard any complaints about Saturn or DC sticks as far as performance goes.

The TwinSticks handles of the old Saturn TwinSticks is no good at all. I had convert some for PS2 use, and the spring got loose within one week of playing.

The DC one is much better, but the handles feel like it could be easily broke into half during the heat of a battle. BTW, I do think there is demand for the DC TwinSticks' PCB, as if you for some reason want to build a Custom DC TwinSticks Controller, you couldn't use a standard DC gamepad's PCB, as it is one button less. And the DC won't recognize it as a Twin Sticks controller.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:59 am

Not out until November -- will there still be a community by that time?

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:34 am

GaijinPunch wrote:Not out until November -- will there still be a community by that time?

Well, that depends on whether there is any substitution for this.

IMO only ...

Gundam Vs Xxxxx series,
Gundam: Senjou no Kizuna,
or another Virtual On (e.g. Virtual On: Force)

... game could be act as an replacement.

And if it is Gundam: Senjou no Kizuna or another Virtual On, you would still need a TwinSticks controller.

In other words, there is relatively few games of this kind despite VO had been released 10 years ago.

Princess-Isabela · Post by **Princess-Isabela** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:14 pm

it would be awesome if somebody made converter that would allow you to use Dreamcast Twin Sticks on 360 so we could play with optimal performance.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:41 pm

Princess-Isabela wrote:it would be awesome if somebody made converter that would allow you to use Dreamcast Twin Sticks on 360 so we could play with optimal performance.

There are at least Japanese tutorials if I'm not mistaken. They are somewhat tricky though.

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:55 pm

I'm guessing we won't get the Twin Sticks here.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:34 pm

SAM wrote:Well, to my surprise I find quite a lots of Aph B/C players actually are not very good at CC themselves. If you know a little in CC combat, melee such Aph B/C might not be as risky as you guys thought, I had seen an Angelan player beating an Ahp B in CC combat twice and win the game (in replay). For myself, I have fun chasing them around with my sword!! Some even forced into playing hit and run against me.

A few words of caution, against an Aph B/C player who know how to fight in CC, try engaging them to melee is very dangerous. But as long as you know to fight in CC, it is safer trying to knock them down than trying to run away IMO.

After some more playing, I figure it out now.

It is not most Aph B/C players are no good in CC, actually even the best Aph B/C players are having problem beating Temjin if the Temjin keep doing QS CC. The cover arc of Aph B/C Tofar simply couldn't compare to that of the Temjin's Sword. Temjin actually have an edge over Aph B/C in CC combat!!

Aph B/C would have to beat a Temjin via fire fight (plus hit & run CC attacks) in order to win.

Zaarock · Post by **Zaarock** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:10 pm

Doesn't the same apply for Cypher? Cypher's sword is actually a bit longer than Temjin's. Not to mention Fei-Yen.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:17 pm

I guess it also depends on how the weapon is swung. Temjin's sword poke is one of the fastest, if not THE fasters CC attack in the game.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:41 am

Davey wrote:$306 at current exchange rates. Seriously. Then factor in importer markup, astronomical shipping, and tax. Then cry.

You can now pre-order your very own ugly-ass twin sticks through NCSX for $398.90.

Hey Zaarock, how are you doing in that OraTan tourney? I've been sucking pretty badly.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:42 am

Zaarock wrote:Doesn't the same apply for Cypher? Cypher's sword is actually a bit longer than Temjin's. Not to mention Fei-Yen.

Yes, Cypher's sword has advantage over Temjin's in QS CC. I got knock down for most of the time I challenge a Cypher in CC combat.

But I find high level Cypher players seem to like using air dash CC more. My guess is may be Cypher just can't afford to trade CC hits like Temjin did.

For Fei-Yen, it looks like her main advantage is speed rather than the cover arc of her saber when she did QS CC moves. My feeling is her saber is shorter than Temjin's.

MentholMoose · Post by **MentholMoose** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:10 pm

Davey wrote:
Davey wrote:$306 at current exchange rates. Seriously. Then factor in importer markup, astronomical shipping, and tax. Then cry.
You can now pre-order your very own ugly-ass twin sticks through NCSX for $398.90.

There is a chance that the image is a prototype, and that the final version won't be so hideous. This is what one of my Japanese friends indicated, at least (he was right about Twin Sticks being released, so maybe he is right about this, too).

SAM wrote:
Zaarock wrote:Doesn't the same apply for Cypher? Cypher's sword is actually a bit longer than Temjin's. Not to mention Fei-Yen.
Yes, Cypher's sword has advantage over Temjin's in QS CC. I got knock down for most of the time I challenge a Cypher in CC combat.

But I find high level Cypher players seem to like using air dash CC more. My guess is may be Cypher just can't afford to trade CC hits like Temjin did.

Yes, Cypher is fragile to say the least! I was reminded of this over the weekend, when I played a bunch of CC-only rounds against a Japanese Cypher player. Using Grys-Vok, basic CC hits did about 60% damage to Cypher. Almost any CC hit from Grys was a knock-down, so I couldn't get any 2-hit combos in.