Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram for the Xbox Live Arcade

[it290]

This game has a pretty steep learning curve, everybody sucks at first. Isn't Temjin considered the best for beginners?

I like Apharmd-B myself. Pretty good all around and has some nice, devasting melee moves that can really catch people unawares if they're not paying attention. Good defense too.

[Davey]

I avoid Close Combat like the plague, so no Apharmd-B for me (I'm sure that makes me an annoying opponent for Apharmd-B players). I've played around with Apharmds S and C a little bit in non-ranked matches with little success.

Temjin is the Ryu of Virtual On: balanced, fairly easy to learn, no major weaknesses, etc. That's why he's good for beginners. He seems to be pretty popular, I play against Temjins pretty often.

[Zaarock]

It would appear that temjin is one of the the hardest matchups for my cypher, hard to beat temjins in watari dash battles when those shots do so much damage, especially forward dash. I think Cypher is a bad matchup for Apharmd B, I've beat quite a few high ranked apharmd b players consistently. Watari dashing between close/mid range just messes them up

Still havent played with you Davey, hope we can get some matches through sometime. I had some great matches today with an australian player called Specy87 from oratan forums.

[Davey]

The time difference will probably get in the way. When are you online? I'm at work from about 2:30 PM to midnight or 1:00 AM your time.

Also, all these Japanese players I get paired up with are playing between 6 and 11 AM. They must not have jobs or school or anything.

I'm officially declaring Dordray as my most hated opponent. I seriously lost 10 or 12 times in a row to a Dordray player today (thankfully not ranked).

[Zaarock]

I'm online around 18:00 GMT to 01:00 GMT. lol, thats exactly when youre working. guess we have to play on weekends or something.
Yeah, I have trouble with a lot of Dordrays as well, though I had a lot of even matches against a friend playing him yesterday.

I think Grys-Vok and Fei-Yen players still annoy me more lol.

[kengou]

I heard this has no local multiplayer, is this true? I play this on my Dreamcast against friends and it's a ton of fun, would be pretty lame if they removed something that was in the DC port for the xbox port.

[Davey]

I think Grys-Vok and Fei-Yen players still annoy me more lol.

I haven't faced too many Grys-Voks, but I don't remember having too many problems against them.

But I agree about Fei-Yen. I played 3 ranked matches yesterday against a good Fei-Yen player (Winder, he's like 92 and 22 or something like that). She is so hard to hit, and that big heart bomb is dangerous, especially in hyper mode.

...but at least when you land a hit on her, it doesn't just bounce off like it does with Dordray. RW attacks are pretty much useless unless you're REALLY close or you've stripped away a TON of V-Armor. Even then, the bastard usually stays on his feet, so sometimes you're still open for a counter attack even if you land a close range forward dash RW.

I heard this has no local multiplayer, is this true? I play this on my Dreamcast against friends and it's a ton of fun, would be pretty lame if they removed something that was in the DC port for the xbox port.

Yeah, they took out the split-screen. You can hook up two 360s for a LAN match similar to how you could with the DC version, but then you need two 360s with VOOT and two TVs. Apparently they think people who are looking to still play VOOT in 2009 have no friends IRL.

[t0yrobo]

I think Grys-Vok and Fei-Yen players still annoy me more lol.

Fei-yen is such a bitch. I used to have fei yen V cypher matches with a friend all the time, goddamn heart cannon.

[Zaarock]

Davey: grys-vok can shoot sooo many damn missiles, and cypher can lose half health from one combo hit I dont have a problem fighting dordrays with weapons, the strongest weapons(which I must use against someone like dordrak anyway) Cypher has go through V-armor. Also, cyphers RW is like a pea shooter so it was pretty funny reading your strategies about RW against dordray

t0yrobo: yeah, thats my main problem. I usually switch up my strategy by a lot when fei-yens go hyper mode to confuse them, I time my shots and do different kinds of watari dashes. Still, a lot of the hits from that thing come by complete surprise to me anyway, like it being shot ridiculously fast when the fei-yen player stands up again when I'm midair.

Also. check out my current game clip on the leaderboards, I think its pretty awesome. I had loads of epic matches with a good japanese Apharmd B player today.

[Jockel]

I don't get the game and the hype that surrounds it.
So far i've played the demo a couple of times and really wanted to like it- well i didn't. Some tips for beginners to get better or make the game fun?

[Zaarock]

I never played the game before this XBLA port either, though I am a fan of senko no ronde. the camera definitely takes getting used to. dash attacking makes you automatically aim at the opponent as does jumping, so try and dash attack and/or jump cancel a lot. Eventually you'll learn to assess the space even though the camera swings around and you'll be able to do various attack combos quick with some practice.

[Davey]

Davey: grys-vok can shoot sooo many damn missiles, and cypher can lose half health from one combo hit I dont have a problem fighting dordrays with weapons, the strongest weapons(which I must use against someone like dordrak anyway) Cypher has go through V-armor. Also, cyphers RW is like a pea shooter so it was pretty funny reading your strategies about RW against dordray

I don't think I've played any really good Grys-Vok players, so that might be part of it. Specineff's armor is almost as weak as Cypher's so I know what you mean about taking big damage. Maybe I should try taking on MentholMoose.

Yeah, for Cypher it's probably not a big deal to face opponents with strong V-Armor like Dordray. But Specineff's weapons recharge slowly, so you typically have to alternate between RW and CW a lot. CW works great at long range and strips a lot of V-Armor, but against opponents like Dordray and Angelan, RW gets deflected most of the time unless you're really close, or it's late in the match and you've managed to whittle down their V-Armor to a sane level. So I'm basically stuck with CW being my only real weapon for most of the match, which considering the recharge time puts me at a huge disadvantage. LW isn't really an offensive attack, so no help there. I probably just need to be more aggressive and try to get close enough for RW to be effective...

I don't get the game and the hype that surrounds it.
So far i've played the demo a couple of times and really wanted to like it- well i didn't. Some tips for beginners to get better or make the game fun?

Actually, the game is total shit, we're just hyping it to mess with you.

It takes some time to learn the basics. Unfortunately it's not really intuitive enough to just pick up and play and have fun right off the bat. There's a beginner's guide over at OraTan, maybe that will help you out.

[Specineff]

For those dealing against opponents with V-Armor, any weapon fired during a forward dash will ignore V-Armor.

[SAM]

...but at least when you land a hit on her, it doesn't just bounce off like it does with Dordray. RW attacks are pretty much useless unless you're REALLY close or you've stripped away a TON of V-Armor. Even then, the bastard usually stays on his feet, so sometimes you're still open for a counter attack even if you land a close range forward dash RW.

Yes, I figure out for most VRs the only way to fight them is to get up close and fire at them at point blank range. Otherwise, your shoots would just bound off. Melee attack would works too.

What are you been using by the way?

***********************

Actually Grys-Vok gives me most troubles. I couldn't figure out how to beat them. You would definitely loss a fire fight against them at long range. While it is difficult to avoid a missile volley, and subsequent knock down up close. There must be some way to get them.

I do think the Grys-Vok is the easiest to pickup for beginners, I 1cc the score attack mode on Very Hard with a Grys-Vok the very first time I play with a Grys-Vok. I get through all the matches by just keep firing missiles, I even beat my previous high-scores...

[Zaarock]

Today I got 64 wins 12 losses in ranked matches, which was pretty fun. I also had some matches with davey before that which were pretty hectic. I also got a new japanese friend in the game, a good grys-vok player.

I had pretty even matches with the grys-vok player, its just that I needed to dodge stuff very carefully as I essentially die in three hits.
You have to mess up the grys-voks rhythm, alternate your watari dashes and stuff and the distance you are from him. If he keeps shooting stuff constantly he will be an easy target for suprise attacks.

I also had loads of matches with my apharmd B player friend again, he figured out how to counter my watari dashing and stuff eventually(I was tired, lol) so I had to switch my tactics a lot... like purposefully go to melee

also specineff: I'm pretty sure Cyphers forward dash RW is blocked by angelans v-armor. I should check that..

[Davey]

Zaarock, are you usually online the same time you were today? I had to wake up earlier than usual this morning, but the upside was that I got to squeeze a few games in before work. You might have noticed in the last match that I didn't move for the first few seconds... I was rushing around my apartment and didn't get back to the TV in time. We had some good, close games though.

For those dealing against opponents with V-Armor, any weapon fired during a forward dash will ignore V-Armor.

I'll have to try that when I get home; I didn't think that was the case. Regardless, I try not to do long-distance forward dash attacks because they're hard to hit with and can leave you in a vulnerable position. I know RTRW attacks go through V-Armor but that doesn't help when I'm dashing. I think I just need to learn how to stay close to opponents that try to stay far away (mostly Dordray and Angelan in my experience).

Are you on XBLA, Specineff?

What are you been using by the way?

For ranked matches I'm pretty much using Specineff all the time. I was using a bit of Grys-Vok but I think I need to practice with him more in player matches before playing more ranked matches with him.

[Zaarock]

Zaarock, are you usually online the same time you were today?

Nah, I was sick so I wasnt at school. I'll be online around that time on the weekend though.

[Specineff]

Davey: Sorry, No 360 here. My brother is, though. May convince him to get it just to play you guys online, though I'm pretty rusty.

[Zaarock]

Also, about trying to keep close to Angelan.. I have so many bad experiences of trying that out with Cypher I wouldnt recommend it much. Its not that I was watari dashing badly, it was that the angelan players just summon ice dragons if you try to air dash near them.. and when you are air dashing and/or near to the dragons when they spawn, its way hard to dodge. Those ice pillars are annoying as well lol. It's a better idea to make strong timed attacks against them because they do have low health, go near them only when it is unexpected. I found Cyphers SLC attack to be surprisingly useful against angelans, though obviously none of the other VRs have such an attack.

[Specineff]

Both the Apharmd's Right Turbo LW (Grenade/Bomb), or dashing forward LW will create a dome that can neutralize most of Angelan's weapons. Same with Temjin's standing LW and Raiden's RT LW, AFAIk.

I will fire up my DC to make sure.

[Davey]

For those dealing against opponents with V-Armor, any weapon fired during a forward dash will ignore V-Armor.

I just tried this in practice mode and it doesn't work at long distances. I think forward dash attacks have a better chance of penetrating V-Armor, though, just not guaranteed.

Today I got 64 wins 12 losses in ranked matches, which was pretty fun.

My record is exactly 150-100 right now, I'm pretty content with that.

Our matches today were an embarrassment... I got annihilated! Fun, though.

[Zaarock]

By that post I meant that I got that kind of a score yesterday. My total is 142/85 now (123/80 before playing today)

I would have played some more player matches with you but my 360 started going crazy, it disconnected from XBL while we were playing and lagged afterwards.. yet I could finish playing that match with you.

I'm pretty sure some v-armors can block Cyphers forward dash RW atleast, I had some trouble with an angelan player because apparently VRs gain invicincibility for a small time from hits even if their v-armor deflects the attacks... So I tried to do combo attacks and the first part that didnt do anything made her invincible

Also, its been a bit surprising to notice that some explosions stop Cyphers arm laser, felt a bit against intuition lol.

[SAM]

Also, about trying to keep close to Angelan.. I have so many bad experiences of trying that out with Cypher I wouldnt recommend it much. Its not that I was watari dashing badly, it was that the angelan players just summon ice dragons if you try to air dash near them.. and when you are air dashing and/or near to the dragons when they spawn, its way hard to dodge. Those ice pillars are annoying as well lol. It's a better idea to make strong timed attacks against them because they do have low health, go near them only when it is unexpected. I found Cyphers SLC attack to be surprisingly useful against angelans, though obviously none of the other VRs have such an attack.

There are ways to get close to Angelan and avoid her Ice Dragon.

First of all don't fire during dash when you are 300 or more away from Angelan, the shoots would defect at such range even if you hit. In this way, you could jump cancel at anytime, and face Angelan directly and make sure you are moving towards her.

Don't air dash without a good reason, Angelan Ice Dragon & Ice Pillars could hit VR in the air easily. Why increasing the dead time after dash by making yourself need to get back on the ground. Just keep dashing on ground should be enough.

Angelan's Ice Pillars should not that hard to dodge as long as you haven't Air Dash or fire during dash. The reminding problem is how to doge Angelan's Ice Dragon while trying to get close.

Angelan's Ice Dragon home quite well, if you start dashing right away, you could out run them. You should instead stand and wait for the dragon(s) to get closer. Once the Dragon(s) get closer, you could easily dodge them by dashing side way.

But if you just keep dodging Angelan's Ice Dragon would let you to get any closer to her to get the job done. So once you dodge the Ice Dragon, watari to forward to get closer. Jump Cancel when Angelan is getting out of view or the dash is about to end.

Weapon worth firing to Angelan at long range are LTLW and all version of CW.

[SAM]

For those dealing against opponents with V-Armor, any weapon fired during a forward dash will ignore V-Armor.

I'll have to try that when I get home; I didn't think that was the case. Regardless, I try not to do long-distance forward dash attacks because they're hard to hit with and can leave you in a vulnerable position. I know RTRW attacks go through V-Armor but that doesn't help when I'm dashing. I think I just need to learn how to stay close to opponents that try to stay far away (mostly Dordray and Angelan in my experience).

Are you on XBLA, Specineff?

What are you been using by the way?

For ranked matches I'm pretty much using Specineff all the time. I was using a bit of Grys-Vok but I think I need to practice with him more in player matches before playing more ranked matches with him.

I few your pain now. After losing several games straight fighting Dordray, I figure out that there is no way beating a Dordray player in a gun fight. Dordray's V-Armor is so thick such that you would have to hit him a lots of time more than he hit you, in order to win a fire fight against him.

So I think there is no other ways to fight Dordray other than getting into cold steel. I start to win matches against them once I start fighting them up close. And it seems it is also true against Raiden. (I also find engaging an Apharmd B in CC combat fun and rewarding. )

[Zaarock]

I also find engaging an Apharmd B in CC combat fun and rewarding.

Heh, reminds me of a fight where I meleed a pretty good Aph B player to death with Cypher, ending in a dash melee that player later found a melee combo that could doo 100% damage to cypher in one go though.. two fast kicks or something, pretty ridiculous

I dont have to alter my strategy much when fighting dordrays, I play pretty close range and Cypher's powerful attacks go through V-Armor anyway.

[Specineff]

Um.. I hadn't noticed you are using Cypher, Sam and Zaarock. The main problem is that his vulcan gun is pretty much worthless on its own now. It used to be the cheapest weapon in the first VO (Never-ending stream of bullets with good homing ability and ridiculously fast recharge time of 2.5 seconds, from an empty clip), and that's why they toned it down. Right Turbo center and Right-hand weapons are your best choice. The Dagger weapon is kind of worthless now, too.

Apharmd B is where it's at.

[SAM]

I also find engaging an Apharmd B in CC combat fun and rewarding.

Heh, reminds me of a fight where I meleed a pretty good Aph B player to death with Cypher, ending in a dash melee that player later found a melee combo that could doo 100% damage to cypher in one go though.. two fast kicks or something, pretty ridiculous

I am using Tamjin, but one go of the Aph B combo took 70+% of the life bar.

But then it is pretty to get back ahead via fire fight, especially when there is not much time left.

Well, to my surprise I find quite a lots of Aph B/C players actually are not very good at CC themselves. If you know a little in CC combat, melee such Aph B/C might not be as risky as you guys thought, I had seen an Angelan player beating an Ahp B in CC combat twice and win the game (in replay). For myself, I have fun chasing them around with my sword!! Some even forced into playing hit and run against me.

A few words of caution, against an Aph B/C player who know how to fight in CC, try engaging them to melee is very dangerous. But as long as you know to fight in CC, it is safer trying to knock them down than trying to run away IMO.

[Zaarock]

Right Turbo center and Right-hand weapons are your best choice. The Dagger weapon is kind of worthless now, too.

What. The dagger is pretty much your main spread attack weapon with cypher and does pretty good damage, and its very easy to hit with it close range or right above your enemy. the vulcan weapons are pretty damn useless unless you are close and using them along with daggers while air dashing. I use the right turbo right weapon quite a lot though, its the arm laser, which can be very useful. the right turbo center is a good weapon indeed, but it can only hit long range... and cypher isnt good at long range against most VRs so I dont see how you could use that as a main strong attack.

[SAM]

Right Turbo center and Right-hand weapons are your best choice. The Dagger weapon is kind of worthless now, too.

What. The dagger is pretty much your main spread attack weapon with cypher and does pretty good damage, and its very easy to hit with it close range or right above your enemy. the vulcan weapons are pretty damn useless unless you are close and using them along with daggers while air dashing. I use the right turbo right weapon quite a lot though, its the arm laser, which can be very useful. the right turbo center is a good weapon indeed, but it can only hit long range... and cypher isnt good at long range against most VRs so I dont see how you could use that as a main strong attack.

Yes, I see other Cypher players use the dagger a lots. And a certain form of dagger would slow down its opponents when hit.

For the vulcan, it seems that if your opponents is hit by some attacks when he is trying to fire something, the action is canceled. And it seems the vulcan could just do this thing, but I am not 100% sure. If this is true, then fire the vulcan a lots make science.

[Specineff]

Right Turbo center and Right-hand weapons are your best choice. The Dagger weapon is kind of worthless now, too.

What. The dagger is pretty much your main spread attack weapon with cypher and does pretty good damage, and its very easy to hit with it close range or right above your enemy. the vulcan weapons are pretty damn useless unless you are close and using them along with daggers while air dashing. I use the right turbo right weapon quite a lot though, its the arm laser, which can be very useful. the right turbo center is a good weapon indeed, but it can only hit long range... and cypher isnt good at long range against most VRs so I dont see how you could use that as a main strong attack.

That's how I've beat Angelan and Dordray in the past.