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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:10 pm 


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bottino wrote:
Who doesn't love Virtua Fighter, that's what I wanna know.


I don't enjoy playing any VF or Tekken game. *shrug*
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:56 am 


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What's your opinion of VF Remix? I like what I played of it, but I'm not sure if it fixes everything wrong with the VF1 port. It still has some odd texture glitches. What's the deal with it being ported to arcades?


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:00 am 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
bottino wrote:
Who doesn't love Virtua Fighter, that's what I wanna know.


I don't enjoy playing any VF or Tekken game. *shrug*


Tekken's been a laugh when I play it at a mates' but I can't handle 3 dimensions..
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:25 am 


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I loved the original VF and Tekken back in the day, but both series have grown way too complex for me now. I've always struggled with fighters that reply on pre-determined combo lists, rather than equipping the characters with a bunch of regular and special moves and letting them get on with it. VF5FS absolutely bamboozled me when I played it via Yakuza.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:59 am 


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BrianC wrote:
What's your opinion of VF Remix? I like what I played of it, but I'm not sure if it fixes everything wrong with the VF1 port. It still has some odd texture glitches. What's the deal with it being ported to arcades?


I've been playing Remix as well, and honestly it doesn't do much for me. One of the biggest issues with Vanilla VF1 Saturn is serious graphical glitches compared to the arcade. Remix fixes this completely and adds a major graphical upgrade (for the time) comparable to VF2. However, it's obviously not that impressive nowadays, and I actually find the "Lego Kung fu" aesthetic of the original really stylish and charming. Weirdly the original holds up better in 2020 than it did in the 90s.

I would wager that there were also more complicated differences ragarding move properties and such fixed as well, but definitely nothing someone playing for fun in 2020 would be able to identify.

For me the biggest issue with VF1 is the AI which I'm sure is the same in the arcade version. Remix doesn't fix this and even on easy the game is incredibly unfair, playing exactly the same as vanilla. The computer grabs from out of range, ducks basically all high attacks other than jabs, and rarely gets hit by throws. It isn't really that hard to clear, but most characters have only a couple viable unique moves against the AI, with the most effective general strategy being P,P...5T tick throws and high damage mids that knockdown on hit. With Wolf for example, certain moves are totally impossible to land, such as his haymaker or his 41236P. Given the very small and simplistic move set, half the moves being completely unviable against the AI shallows the game immensely.

Anyhow tl;dr Vanilla has a better aesthetic and Remix does nothing to fix the AI problems, so I actually prefer Vanilla.

(VF2 and Fighters Megamix mostly fixed the AI issues and are great fun.)

---

Edit: Just so you know, Wolf's 41236P is so difficult to land that I just tested it in versus mode to confirm he even had the move at all in VF1 to make sure this post was accurate.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:28 pm 


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ACSeraph wrote:
BrianC wrote:
What's your opinion of VF Remix? I like what I played of it, but I'm not sure if it fixes everything wrong with the VF1 port. It still has some odd texture glitches. What's the deal with it being ported to arcades?


I've been playing Remix as well, and honestly it doesn't do much for me. One of the biggest issues with Vanilla VF1 Saturn is serious graphical glitches compared to the arcade. Remix fixes this completely and adds a major graphical upgrade (for the time) comparable to VF2. However, it's obviously not that impressive nowadays, and I actually find the "Lego Kung fu" aesthetic of the original really stylish and charming. Weirdly the original holds up better in 2020 than it did in the 90s.

I would wager that there were also more complicated differences ragarding move properties and such fixed as well, but definitely nothing someone playing for fun in 2020 would be able to identify.

For me the biggest issue with VF1 is the AI which I'm sure is the same in the arcade version. Remix doesn't fix this and even on easy the game is incredibly unfair, playing exactly the same as vanilla. The computer grabs from out of range, ducks basically all high attacks other than jabs, and rarely gets hit by throws. It isn't really that hard to clear, but most characters have only a couple viable unique moves against the AI, with the most effective general strategy being P,P...5T tick throws and high damage mids that knockdown on hit. With Wolf for example, certain moves are totally impossible to land, such as his haymaker or his 41236P. Given the very small and simplistic move set, half the moves being completely unviable against the AI shallows the game immensely.

Anyhow tl;dr Vanilla has a better aesthetic and Remix does nothing to fix the AI problems, so I actually prefer Vanilla.

(VF2 and Fighters Megamix mostly fixed the AI issues and are great fun.)

---

Edit: Just so you know, Wolf's 41236P is so difficult to land that I just tested it in versus mode to confirm he even had the move at all in VF1 to make sure this post was accurate.


Thanks for the info. VF Remix doesn't fix the graphical glitches completely and still has some noticeable glitching (most noticable in the intro, winning poses, and continue screen). Too bad the cheap AI wasn't fixed. I agree on Megamix as well, though it oddly looks inferior to Saturn VF2 in some ways. I also have a fondness for the original polygons. At least the PC port of Remix has that option, but it was such a pain to get running. There's also that mode in VF4 Evo with the classic blocky polygons.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:53 pm 


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I agree on Megamix as well, though it oddly looks inferior to Saturn VF2 in some ways.

VF2 on Saturn sacrifices basically everything so that it can run in 480i at a solid 60fps. All polygons are fullbright, any lighting was painted onto the texture. IIRC [but I'm not 100% sure and I could be wrong], it wasn't even a matter of speed, I think I remember reading somewhere [maybe even one of the the Saturn programming manuals but they're awful to go through and I don't want to repeat the experience, possibly the worst documentation I've experienced in my life] that VDP1 couldn't do any kind of shading on polygons in 480i mode when outputting at full resolution.

Fighters Megamix has gouraud shaded models and runs on an engine more like Fighting Vipers.
Fighters Megamix and Fighting Vipers output a 480i signal, but all 3D elements are still drawn at half resolution.
VF2 draws everything but the floor plane at full resolution.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:48 am 


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Thanks for the info on display modes. I thought part of the lower resolution model downgrade was due to Fighters Megamix adding the ability to side step. I definitely like the game itself quite a bit, though the extra characters are hit or miss.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:05 am 


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When I first bought Megamix years and years ago I couldn't get into it because I kept the game on the default Fighting Vipers system, but now I've been playing in VF mode and I'm completely in love with it. I actually really hated Fighting Vipers, but I've found that I actually enjoy playing those characters with the VF gameplay system. Being based on VF3, the game actually feels really modern and dynamic for a Saturn era 3D fighter.

None of the graphical issues have really impacted my opinion of any of the titles much.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:55 am 


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I love how Megamix uses stuff from VF3. Is DoA using the VF2 engine? It's definitely one of the better looking fighters on the system and the arcade is on Model 2 hardware despite being made by Tecmo.

The most frustrating thing about VF remix is how is hyped it as a massively improved port (even by the developers themselves?), but seems to just be the Saturn version with a new coat of paint.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:33 am 


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BrianC wrote:
I love how Megamix uses stuff from VF3. Is DoA using the VF2 engine? It's definitely one of the better looking fighters on the system and the arcade is on Model 2 hardware despite being made by Tecmo.


Yeah DOA1 was made using the Virtua Fighter engine. It's another series I've loved and followed since the Dreamcast days. I think DOA has a really unfairly bad reputation. Aside from the original, all of them are actually really deep games. I played Tekken Tag 2 competitively in the arcade for years, but I've always strongly preferred DoA.

To be honest I always found the aesthetic and general gameplay engine of VF to be the best of the three, but for the immense amount of time I put into it I never really found a character that clicked. With DoA I immediately found a main I loved in Ayane, who I still main to this day. Tekken took me longer to warm up to, but ultimately I really enjoyed playing Asuka in 5DR and stuck with her. The reason I've been so into VF lately is that I finally had my "this is the one!" Moment with Wolf recently, and to a lesser extent Taka. Unfortunately that happened way too late so casual play is my only option.

My current main competitive game is DOA6, but the game is really dying, and unfortunately Tekken 7 just hasn't motivated me to play. If by some miracle VF6 was ever announced I would definitely migrate to it as my new primary fighting game now that I've found my main.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:29 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Marc wrote:
Had a quick nosy at Banjo Nuts & Bolts - quite odd, but intriguing enough. Also it looks absolutely glorious, this must have been upgraded for the X1X.


Played the beginning of that once. I like how they make 4th wall jokes at the expense of the earlier games, and it's like, no fuck you those games were great why are you teasing me with this shit i dont want to play your shitty racing game!


Yeah, it's not often a game makes me genuinely laugh, but the opening ten minutes or so to this did.
It's certainly unique, but I'm not sure I can stomach another dozen hours or so if it continues along the same lines. Shame as it looks glorious, far better than Yooka-Laylee, I'd have loved a proper platformer. Mind, I've just ditched BJ at the Quiz show part, I'd forgotten about that. What a stupid, STUPID idea.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:32 am 


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Aahah what!? The Quiz show is amazing!
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:24 am 


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Loved that, too. Certainly a lot better than Gunstar Heroes' attempt at the same idea :P


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:56 am 


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:21 pm 


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Alien 3, SNES.

Finally after eons (basically University days) I have gone back to Alien 3. Great game with tasks per mission. Player has to weigh up risks and conserve resources. Luckily, A3 SNES does not have a timer like in A3 on the Megadrive.

Pretty atmospheric game with a film like soundtrack. Well worth playing.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:16 pm 


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The Samurai Shodown Neo Geo Collection is free (to keep) on the Epic store for one week. From what I'm hearing it's basically unplayable online at present, which will be a big let-down for many, but for a 1P wonder who plays fighting games mainly to look at and listen to them, this is a huge freebie. The museum stuff is amazing.

https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/p ... dated=true


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:41 pm 


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Klatrymadon wrote:
The Samurai Shodown Neo Geo Collection is free (to keep) on the Epic store for one week.


Is this like steam were I have to download the client to download the games?



I am playing Albion.

So far, it's pretty amazing. German RPG / Adventure game from 1996 that is sort of like a more adult squaresoft SNES RPG with a serious science fiction story taking place on different planets. It's got a number of playing views including a primitive first person maze view that is a bit awkward, but not a deal breaker.

It also basically features the race from the movie Avatar way before that movie was even conceived but they aren't blue.

I'm into it.

Image

edit: fixed Albion release date


Last edited by vol.2 on Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:06 pm 


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You should be able to claim it via the link but you might need the client to install it, yeah. Since installation I haven't had to open the app again, though.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:10 pm 


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Downloading. Over 10 gigs for a collection of NeoGeo games? Sys requirements seem high too, but I'll see how it runs.

Runs slow in full screen on TV, but runs fine in 720p windowed mode.


Last edited by BrianC on Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:55 pm 


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I'm heading the end of disc one and I still don't hate it. Hell it seems like I actually...enjoy FFIX.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:54 am 


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I've come to the personal conclusion that the 3DS library is kind of cheeks so I'm going around hunting for DS games instead. Sadly, most of them are crazy expensive (Chrono Trigger's cart alone is $50 minimum as is Contra 4).
But the Sonic games are reasonable. $60 total for Sonic Rush, Rush 2, and Colors all with their cases and manuals and I've just been fiending on them the last week. I want more of those quirky early life DS games like Polarium and Magnetica. Those are really nostalgic.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:05 am 


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It's hard to succinctly describe how much worse the 2nd Alone in the Dark game is when compared to it's pioneer and solid predecessor; probably the worst sequel of any game I've ever played and a text book example on how managerial bullshit and interference can ruin a game (or any other creative endeavor).

Now let's close the trilogy and see how the third game fares. At least I'm sure it won't be as bad as the second game...

Steamflogger Boss wrote:
I don't enjoy playing any VF or Tekken game. *shrug*


Is there something specific about these series that turns you off or is it simply a distaste about the 3D vs.fighting genre in general?


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:44 am 


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vol.2 wrote:
I am playing Albion.

I never played it, but I have always been interested in it due to its development history. Iirc, this is what the cancelled Ambersun eventually turned into, which was supposed to be the closing title in a trilogy. I remember having plenty of fun with the first two games back in the day. While Amberstar is undeniably flawed and I wouldn't really recommend it today, Ambermoon is really good and still holds up pretty well. If after Albion you're interested in more of the same, I suggest checking it out.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:34 pm 


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bottino wrote:

Steamflogger Boss wrote:
I don't enjoy playing any VF or Tekken game. *shrug*


Is there something specific about these series that turns you off or is it simply a distaste about the 3D vs.fighting genre in general?


Likely just the latter. The only games I ever played much of in the genre were Soul Calibur 2/3.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:52 pm 


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Herr Schatten wrote:
Ambermoon is really good and still holds up pretty well.


Interesting! I didn't realize there was a connection, but it makes sense based on the artwork. I heard of Ambermoon not long ago. I follow a Youtuber/Switch account from Germany by the name of Jan Beta, and he used Ambermoon to test a Amiga after repairing it. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCftUpO ... A/featured

On the mobygames page, the developer claims that the only connection was that it was the same development team from Ambermoon. Apparently, they started from scratch with the story and there is no connection other than it uses an updated version of the game engine they developed.

After thinking about it, this makes sense as Ambermoon is a "ye olde" kind of faux medieval game that takes place on a fantasy planet, and Albion takes place in a theoretical future of humans from the planet earth, but in a Star Trek way where they are exploring distant stars.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:22 pm 



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XoPachi wrote:
I've come to the personal conclusion that the 3DS library is kind of cheeks so I'm going around hunting for DS games instead. Sadly, most of them are crazy expensive (Chrono Trigger's cart alone is $50 minimum as is Contra 4).
But the Sonic games are reasonable. $60 total for Sonic Rush, Rush 2, and Colors all with their cases and manuals and I've just been fiending on them the last week. I want more of those quirky early life DS games like Polarium and Magnetica. Those are really nostalgic.

Meteos, Space Invaders Exteme, and the Bleach DS fighting games (made by Treasure) are all criminally overlooked DS games.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:07 am 


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I definitely agree on the Meteos recomandation, frantic and skill-demanding puzzle game, on par with Magical Drop series for me.

Some months ago there was a DS recomandation thread on the french shmup community, lots of nice hidden gems there :
http://forum.shmup.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... DS#p552106
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:26 am 


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Ah Meteos, I sank HOURS into that many years ago. One of those games that only worked on touch screens as well, I picked it up on X360 but it just wasn't the same. A Switch port would be more than welcome.

Never played Space Invaders Extreme on DS, but the 360 version is brilliant.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:11 am 


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For some reason I never knew about the Tank Battalion sequel "Battle City" for Famicom, despite it apparently being quite famous outside Japan, for being a pirate multicart staple of all things. It's a pretty amazing improvement over the original.

Image

I really love the tactical shooting action, forcing you to anticipate the (wildly random, but still forced by the level's layout) movements of the enemy tanks as you try to flank them in order to maintain an advantage. I love how shooting up the environment is an integral part of said stategy, both in terms of the direction it forces the enemy to take, but also in how it can be used to provide cover for yourself, a quick escape route, and passage to your base that you need to protect, but also keep the enemies from reaching it.
There are elements in this that remind me of the better aspects of classics like Bomberman and Space Invaders, but it's its own thing entirely.

Unfortunately it's kind of held down by a wildly uneven difficulty curve caused mostly by the absurdly random powerups which can choose to either make you completely OP, or screw you over. The time stopper essentially allows you to get on top of the enemy spawn rate and just camp them infinitely, while on other occasions the game will just refuse to give you anything useful, which can especially make recoveries nearly impossible after losing a life, as you're at the mercy of RNG to get powered back up again.

As long as you can stay on top of things, there's a bit of an unfortunate dominant strategy involving just clearing a nice horizontal row where you can take out all enemies before they pass you, but the game does manage to overcome this on a few of the stages simply due to a clever stage layout, where especially water tiles can really screw up your plans.
There's a bit of a - probably unintentional - but interesting scoring element to the grenade powerup which can helpfully clear the screen of enemies, but if you want to maximize your score you want to pick it up with no enemies on the screen, so you can get points from both the grenade and shooting enemies manually. But since powerup distributions are 100% random it doesn't really add any depth to the game - essentially your score is your stage progress minus unfortunate grenade drops.

I think a lot of the game's biggest issues could be overcome with more enemy types, some being much more aggressive and dangerous, a higher spawn rate, and a more even distribution of the powerups. The result would actually be a pretty amazing game. There's another arcade sequel from 1991 called Tank Force, does anyone have experience with that? From what I've seen on videos it looks cool, but it seems that a few OP powerups take away from some of the strategy.


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