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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:20 am 


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Xyga wrote:
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:
I don't know anything about that. It's just always felt shitty to me, and I'm honestly surprised that somebody doesn't agree - but I don't have a problem with that at all, I'm happy if the game works for you. Honestly though, if it's true that the entire internet complains about it, it sounds more like we might have a "one ghost driver? hundreds!"-situation here...

Nope, you've missed the point I've made about that in this thread entirely, sorry but I won't start over.


I agree mate, it's better if you just let it rest.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:03 pm 


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ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:
Xyga wrote:
SoM has no hit detection issues, it's a recent troll meme copypasted online, I see reddit and gamefaqs are full of it which tells a lot.


I don't know anything about that. It's just always felt shitty to me, and I'm honestly surprised that somebody doesn't agree


Refer to my earlier post about stats.

It's been a hot fucking minute since I played SoM but i remember the combat making sense once I got the hang of it.
Hell, I'd even say it's better than morrowind, at least you can actually aim worth a damn in SoM.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:45 pm 


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EmperorIng wrote:
Did you ever play or enjoy Legend of Mana, Xyga? I tried to get into that game 3 separate times but I never felt it click. The crafting was beyond convoluted (a Square staple from that era? from not FF games maybe) and the lack of plot somewhat dimmed my appreciation of some of the most gorgeous 2D visuals in a game.

I'll admit I am miffed that it wasn't included in the Collection of Mana - seems like there is no reason not to have it so people can actually play more than your typical Nintendo nostalgia bait :wink:


Man, Legend of Mana is a game I keep wanting to enjoy... and then I inevitably drop it at some point.
...but I keep picking it up because it's so god damn pretty. It just doesn't click with me at all though.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:40 am 


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Neo Turf Masters is the perfect golf game in that old style.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:42 am 


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null1024 wrote:
Man, Legend of Mana is a game I keep wanting to enjoy... and then I inevitably drop it at some point.
...but I keep picking it up because it's so god damn pretty. It just doesn't click with me at all though.



My sentiments exactly. I consider it one of the best-looking games on the PlayStation, if not THE best-looking.

There is some fun to be had in exploring its (very limited) combo potential, and being able to raise a chocobo is neat, but for all it tries to offer, Legend of Mana is more fun to look at than to play. Even the music starts to wear on you a little when you've heard the same handful of tracks for the umpteenth time.

I do think it deserves at least some credit for letting you build your own overworld.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:46 am 


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Ridge Racer Type 4 [PS1]. Spent like two hours with it just now.
I'm still kinda impressed at how good this game looks.
Like, apart from the PS1's ugly texture warping, it's an honest-to-god good looking game.

It took ages for R4's super wide-slide drifting to really click with me. Ages as in that it finally happened, most of my laps are clean now, and I'm not just screwing up and hoping I luck out with only a glancing wall bounce most of the time anymore.
I still don't like the change from more classic RR-style drifts, and sometimes, I still don't entirely understand why the hell the car isn't regaining traction, but I finally feel like I have it down for the most part.

I was really annoyed doing the Grand Prix with the Mappy team, casually getting first place in all the courses in the first two heats, and then getting stonewalled by Phantomile while driving in automatic.
all of the awful wheel spin I kept getting after a drift suddenly disappeared when I switched to manual and the car behaved much more like I was used to
Like, sure, I should have been driving MT in the first place, but I don't ever recall losing so much speed after a drift due to the tires just squealing like mad before [maybe because I've never gotten first in every race up to this point in the GP :lol: ].

I really, really, really wish I could disable the announcer during time attack. Please, just shut up about your grandma. No one wants to hear that shit every moment when they're trying to break a record.
I also really wish the game separated leaderboards by car class. Alas.

Maybe RR5 will click with me one day.
That game really just pisses me off when I play it. It doesn't help that it's so much less appealing to look at or listen to compared to R4 despite being a PS2 game, but I also don't understand how to just drive in it.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:20 am 


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:21 am 


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null1024 wrote:
Maybe RR5 will click with me one day.


I hope it will, I think it's the best of the pre-nitrous Ridge Racers.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:31 am 


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Sumez wrote:
I think most of the common criticisms commonly directed at SoM are justified - at least the menu/combat stuff. (how you can't enjoy the game's atmosphere, music and world in general is beyond me :))

I think to me, the wonky combat just doesn't matter much. I liked that part because it was original, but I also didn't expect any more from it. The game is super charming, and I can't really dislike it no matter how much you can pick it apart. Chrono Trigger's combat is also mostly completely non-satisfying due to how simple the stategy is, and every fight being mostly really easy, but it's still one of my favourite games.


Yeah, the combat is my only real problem with Secret of Mana. Almost everything else is great, but bad gameplay is a big problem for a video game.

Blinge wrote:
It's been a hot fucking minute since I played SoM but i remember the combat making sense once I got the hang of it.
Hell, I'd even say it's better than morrowind, at least you can actually aim worth a damn in SoM.


I might take Morrowind's combat over Secret of Mana's just because of the fun goofy things you can do. Like drink 100 bottles of alcohol all at once so your strength and speed go up to 1000 and your intelligence goes down to 0 and then run up to an enemy at lightspeed and hit them so hard that you break your sword and they die instantly. Or cast levitate on both yourself and an enemy, then fly away and they'll follow you up for a sky battle, then when levitation timer runs out only recast it on yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:03 am 


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This forum's retarded.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:13 pm 


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Yeah the only sacred game you're not allowed to say anything against on here is Ninja Gaiden. That one is taboo. :mrgreen:

I do sympathise, Xyga. But the crusty bastard factor isn't as bad here as it can be.
I'm still not re-energised the full Zeldo defense crusade I went on. Haven't wanted to write much about games since.
Especially with the whole 'I can't/won't refute your points but disagree anyway' :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:50 pm 


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To weigh in a bit, I think it's fine to criticize or simply state ones reasons for not enjoying a game like [Mana or insert popular normie game here], just as long as you have the...awareness? to not outright call it "bad game" as some freakazoids on here (not anyone in this argument) have been prone to do.

There's a lot more to a game than neurotic armchair gameplay design analysis, and to call a polished project bursting with creativity "bad" just because it no longer appeals to you specifically shows a critical lack of understanding, empathy, context, and self-awareness.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:40 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
To weigh in a bit, I think it's fine to criticize or simply state ones reasons for not enjoying a game like [Mana or insert popular normie game here], just as long as you have the...awareness? to not outright call it "bad game" as some freakazoids on here (not anyone in this argument) have been prone to do.


I think Xyga was more or less saying this earlier. Suffice to say I agree. There are many things I don't like that I would not say are objectively terrible in all aspects.

Squire Grooktook wrote:
There's a lot more to a game than neurotic armchair gameplay design analysis, and to call a polished project bursting with creativity "bad" just because it no longer appeals to you specifically shows a critical lack of understanding, empathy, context, and self-awareness.


Thumbsup. A lot of games quickly fall apart if we are only talking about gameplay. That's why I have so very few games strictly for the gameplay in my single player time waster and multiplayer game rotations.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:38 pm 


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Everybody chill. It's not the end of the world if people criticize the shit you love. Happened to all of us. Just move on, and enjoy life.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:00 pm 


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You're right, but when someone engages on saying utter unfair shit on critically acclaimed or cult games - or whatever even not games - he must be prepared to deal with 'wtf m8 wrong af' reactions.
Or think harder before doing it... :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:23 pm 


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Isn't the point of this thread to have discussions about games?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:21 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
To weigh in a bit, I think it's fine to criticize or simply state ones reasons for not enjoying a game like [Mana or insert popular normie game here], just as long as you have the...awareness? to not outright call it "bad game" as some freakazoids on here (not anyone in this argument) have been prone to do.

There's a lot more to a game than neurotic armchair gameplay design analysis, and to call a polished project bursting with creativity "bad" just because it no longer appeals to you specifically shows a critical lack of understanding, empathy, context, and self-awareness.


It's fine to say a game is bad if you think it's bad, even if it's a sacred cow. It's fine if someone hates a game you like. It's fine if someone's standards for good and bad are different from yours. No one should be offended by any of that.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:29 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
It's fine to say a game is bad if you think it's bad, even if it's a sacred cow. It's fine if someone hates a game you like. It's fine if someone's standards for good and bad are different from yours. No one should be offended by any of that.


This is a bold take in 2019. Love it.

There are some games that are perceived as awful that I just loved because they clicked with me, and vice versa.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:04 pm 


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Yet, can't say anyone's truth is as good as anyone else's...the facts are here thankfully, a game doesn't make itself a reputation and a big name at random or by accident (well, it can happen but only for a brief period, not many consecutive years and decades) and for that it's never really a 'sacred cow', the fame is earned for reasons.
So, one who claims right to unequivocally murder one of those is necessarily wrong somewhere or short-sighted or even selfish, if he doesn't admit that it may not be bad like he said but simply not compatible with his gamer DNA.
I'm being redundant but like I said, it's kind of disappointing that in a community where people with 20, 30, 40 years of experience in gaming, some still judge games so casually and brutally, because that's...only on the level of everyday random internet mediocrity.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:20 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote:
To weigh in a bit, I think it's fine to criticize or simply state ones reasons for not enjoying a game like [Mana or insert popular normie game here], just as long as you have the...awareness? to not outright call it "bad game" as some freakazoids on here (not anyone in this argument) have been prone to do.

There's a lot more to a game than neurotic armchair gameplay design analysis, and to call a polished project bursting with creativity "bad" just because it no longer appeals to you specifically shows a critical lack of understanding, empathy, context, and self-awareness.


It's fine to say a game is bad if you think it's bad, even if it's a sacred cow. It's fine if someone hates a game you like. It's fine if someone's standards for good and bad are different from yours. No one should be offended by any of that.


It doesn't offend me, but in some cases* it certainly lowers my opinion of the writer and their intelligence. And in those cases, I think that my appraisal is justified (or at least "fine" too~).

*(Disclaimer: Once again, not thinking of anyone in this particular argument when I say this. In my brief skim no one has really crossed that line of idiocy. Not taking potshots at Roo or you or whoever.)
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:22 am 


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Ridge Racer Revolution [PS1]. I'm trying not to suck on the beginner extra track. I'm coming stupid close. Spent like 30 laps just trying to get it down in free run mode. Got 2nd when I went to race, just barely screwed up and didn't make it. Managed to smash the best lap time I'd managed during free run too, so I think I can get it down soon.
I'm really, really glad that RRR saves best lap/course times for each speed class.

Also, I'm playing Ridge Racer V [PS2]. Giving it another shot.
and I'm getting really, really pissed just trying to complete the first cup and holy fuck, I keep getting spun out [by other cars] or end up hitting opposing traffic just trying to get a line [any line] in a corner and getting held back by shit in front of me [sudden swerves] and every single little mistake takes like 90 years to recover from and I'm so fucking mad right now just playing this god damn game

On the plus side, as far as I can tell, drifting isn't an issue like I remembered it to be... except hitting brake+gas can initiate a drift, and it's driving me nuts.
but holy fuck I'm actually getting mad playing this game
The fucking requirement is a measly fourth fucking place to advance and I keep getting cock-blocked and god damn shit asses I'm pissed.

Also, because this is like the first GP, it's really slow.
I feel like I'm driving with a ball and chain attached right now.
I popped in RRR again for a bit so I could relax and enjoy myself.

I'll give it another go tomorrow, but bloody hell, this shit pissed me off.

[edit]
Alright, I think I'm done with RR5.

I was going to go try and download an all-clear save and see if the game only feels so shit with just the initial pack of cars you can select for the GP, but apparently no one has a save file for the US region of the game.
I'm really not fond of trying to make a corner and getting spun out, costing me the race because acceleration is so slow at this point in the game.

R4 has the issue where the AI cars are way, way too spaced out and are just progress markers... but RR5 makes them an active nuisance that drives dirty. There's nothing like seeing two cars side by side ahead of you, bumping a bit, and blocking the only reasonable line ahead, killing your hopes of finishing the race properly since the car accelerates so damn slowly.
I made it to the last race in the first GP, before bombing out. I got second twice [the last race needs a first place finish], and then got spun out into a wall in two other runs.

I can't just relax and play time attack or anything either, because you don't have any cars unlocked until you finish a GP.
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Last edited by null1024 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:45 pm 


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DLsite has some coupons and discounts again, so I got a JRPG this time, アスクギア (Ask Gear?)

I've played nearly a minute so far, so I'm going to go ahead and give it 5/5 stars. Because when I launched the game it asked what type of gamepad I had (instead of assuming some xbox humbug) and it actually had an option for an SFC pad. Holy frosted flakes! Make that 6/5 stars. Also works in Windows 2000.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:34 pm 


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Ghegs wrote:
I think it's the best of the pre-nitrous Ridge Racers.


What's your take on Ridge Racer 6 and the whole drift to build nitrous thing? I'm not entirely sure I like the whole nitrous gimmick and prefer the more "pure" racing experience. It's nice that there was a non-nitrous mode. I've got Ridge Racer V sitting currently untouched on my shelf in need of playing.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:26 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Ghegs wrote:
I think it's the best of the pre-nitrous Ridge Racers.


What's your take on Ridge Racer 6 and the whole drift to build nitrous thing? I'm not entirely sure I like the whole nitrous gimmick and prefer the more "pure" racing experience. It's nice that there was a non-nitrous mode. I've got Ridge Racer V sitting currently untouched on my shelf in need of playing.


I've played some RR6 and quite a lot of Ridge Racer 2 PSP. I just think of the nitrous gimmick as an alternate take on the Ridge Racer formula where drifts are already super easy to pull off, now you need to do them even more. It changes your lines and approach to corners, many times you'll want to extend your drifting a little bit in order to fill up the next nitrous boost. And then you'll need to figure out the best timing on when to use them. Since you can't create nitrous when boosting, you'll want to time a nitrous so it'll end right before a corner, leaving you to drift through it at high speed and (hopefully) filling up the next boost tank so you can repeat the process. With good timing and practice, you'll be chaining boosts like this all through the race. Looking at it that way, it does an add an extra layer of depth to master.

That said, I do prefer the non-nitrous approach of Ridge Racer V. As much as I love drifting in racing games, I like it the best when it's done sparingly, so you'll need (and want) to drift, but you'll also want to take careful lines so you'll minimize the length of the drift in order to get back to accelerating that much faster. Or better yet, finding a line that allows you to get through the corner without drifting at all while still keeping the pedal to the metal. This, to me, is more fun than drifting through all corners just in order to generate nitrous.

With Ridge Racer titles this difference between non-nitrous/nitrous games can easily be felt, since the tracks are repeated in many of the games. Great example is the Short course from the very first Ridge Racer, known as Sunny Beach in RRV and Seaside Route 765 in later titles. The lines you take are very different depending on which game you're playing.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:28 pm 


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As much as I love drifting in racing games, I like it the best when it's done sparingly, so you'll need (and want) to drift, but you'll also want to take careful lines so you'll minimize the length of the drift in order to get back to accelerating that much faster


I can understand that. RR6 felt like it was too drifty for the sake of gimmickyness to me I guess. Which I suppose is a ridiculous thing to think given I'm super into Outrun 2SP a.k.a. Literally Drift Almost All The Time: The Videogame, but the drifting in that feels wildly unrealistic and enjoyable as just a relaxing arcade racer so maybe it's cause Outrun strikes a different vibe for me.

Are there any good console releases you can recommend that capture the feel of either the Initial D/Wangan Midnight: Maximum Tune games?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:55 am 


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Since I appear to be slowly sliding into some sort of golf-centric dementia, I'll mention that I decided to kit out my Neo Geo Pocket Color with a frontlight and have been playing the NGPC port of Neo Turf Masters. This port really is pretty astonishing in its faithfulness to the original; the solutions for most holes are pretty much exactly the same and it keeps up the same pace and jaunty tunes while also adding a very useful suspend feature. I never played it a lot back in the day because it felt kind of sluggish in comparison, but it really is an astonishingly addictive little game and the added triple crown mode is pretty cool too.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:40 am 


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it290 wrote:
Since I appear to be slowly sliding into some sort of golf-centric dementia, I'll mention that I decided to kit out my Neo Geo Pocket Color with a frontlight and have been playing the NGPC port of Neo Turf Masters. This port really is pretty astonishing in its faithfulness to the original; the solutions for most holes are pretty much exactly the same and it keeps up the same pace and jaunty tunes while also adding a very useful suspend feature. I never played it a lot back in the day because it felt kind of sluggish in comparison, but it really is an astonishingly addictive little game and the added triple crown mode is pretty cool too.


holy crap I had no idea this existed. i have an ngpc so i might seek this one out.

in other news I'm trying to figure out Aerobiz Supersonic on the SNES and it's not that difficult if you read the manual and pick the lowest difficulty and just do what the board memebers tell you to do at the meetings :D
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:27 am 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Quote:
As much as I love drifting in racing games, I like it the best when it's done sparingly, so you'll need (and want) to drift, but you'll also want to take careful lines so you'll minimize the length of the drift in order to get back to accelerating that much faster


I can understand that. RR6 felt like it was too drifty for the sake of gimmickyness to me I guess. Which I suppose is a ridiculous thing to think given I'm super into Outrun 2SP a.k.a. Literally Drift Almost All The Time: The Videogame, but the drifting in that feels wildly unrealistic and enjoyable as just a relaxing arcade racer so maybe it's cause Outrun strikes a different vibe for me.


Actually, Outrun 2/SP/DX/etc. are good examples of what I was talking about. You're always bleeding off speed when drifting, so you'll want to drift as little as possible. At least when playing normal races or time attack, Heart Attack of course has drifty goals where you'll need to maximize it instead.

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Are there any good console releases you can recommend that capture the feel of either the Initial D/Wangan Midnight: Maximum Tune games?


Well, there are console ports of Initial D on PS2 and PSP, and of non-Maximum Tune Wangan Midnight on PS2 and PS3. Genki has also developed quite a few games with similar themes, those being the Kaido Battle and Shutokou Battle games for mostly PS2, but DC and Xbox 360 also got Shutokou Battle games. Not sure if those are quite what you're looking for though, since they're also less straightforward then arcade games and have tons of tuning and customization options, among other things.

I can't miss a chance to mention my favorite racing game of all time here, and that's Side By Side on PS1. It's basically an Initial D game only without the license, many of the same courses and cars are available. The series continued as Battle Gear, and there are great ports of Battle Gear 2 and 3 on PS2.

Not a console game, but on PC there's an indie clone of Initial D called CrossTheRidge R. It's available on DLSite for five bucks. Japanese language only, but you can find your way around the menus fairly easily after a while. A bit too simplistic for my taste, but worth the price I'd say.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:27 pm 


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Resident Evil 5 which still fucking rules. I get why grumpy old curmudgeon fans of the series don't like it but it's so fun.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:11 pm 


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I think it's tons of fun too-I just wish the mandatory coop wasn't a thing.
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