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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:48 am 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Secret of Mana/Seiken Densetsu 2: I actually never played this before, a friend is insanely into it. I'd played the first Gameboy game in the series which was localized as Final Fantasy Adventure and it was a fun adventure RPG. This one...

Honestly, I can't stand the game. A lot of the music loops very quickly and feels subpar to a LOT of Square's other works. Seriously, listen to "Ceremony" and tell me you want to listen to it for multiple dungeons. I am aware it is supposed to be uncomfortable and discordant and grating, but ugh. On the whole, the first game in the series had a much preferable OST even though it was a Gameboy game.

The main sticking point is the combat system is horrendous and among the worst in any RPG I've played. Hit detection feels flaky and the game does a poor job of giving the player feedback if their attack hit or not, or if it "hit" but registered as a miss due to enemy stats. There's early enemies that can stunlock you to death by simply hitting you repeatedly as you have no small period of invulnerability when hit/knocked down, and for many enemies you can do the same to them (woe unto the foolish player who goes into the Haunted Forest before getting the game's second character). Getting all three party members help alleviate the stunlocking issue somewhat, though combat actually feels slower the further you get in the game as the emphasis on longer charge attacks and spells (which pause the game temporarily) increases. With physical attacks often whiffing due to enemies with i-frames, the charge attacks can actually be frustrating to release, since you can easily be interrupted out of them or they can simply whiff if the enemy does something to make themselves invulnerable. Spells eventually become the game breaker, and offensive spells are what you focus on spamming for bosses, which requires constantly reopening the menu and casting manually.

Spells automatically hit the target and cannot be dodged by moving away. This means that enemies with spells can essentially lock down your team with them. The first major spellcasting boss (the fire-themed one) will essentially rip you up if you used up all your MP prior to encountering it, since it constantly spams unavoidable spells and makes itself difficult to hit. It is the boss that teaches you to be prepared to spam your offensive spells on bosses as Freeze makes short work of an otherwise difficult boss.

The menu interface isn't much better and feels very awkward to navigate at times. You eventually get 3 party members, and while multiplayer is surprising to have in a SNES era RPG, the entire experience feels unpleasant, with combat that doesn't feel like your hits connect reliably, which is due to enemies often having iframes when casting, and poor feedback when attacks actually register, what your charge attack hitboxes are, etc. The story is also atrocious and the plot proceeds at an absolutely breakneck pace with no character development whatsoever and frankly poor writing. There are more enjoyable single player experiences to be had in overhead-style RPGs for the SNES. Brain Lord for instance offers a vastly more enjoyable experience with far more engaging combat (and has many of the same weapon types to use with far better script writing/dungeons/magic system).

Surprisingly enough one thing I don't fault is the AI - it's surprisingly reliable at keeping enemies stunlocked with some weapons like the Javelin, though when it's allowed to use charge attacks it often whiffs them. Charge attacks go up to a whopping level 8, and while they look nifty, it really makes the combat pacing feel slow when you're encouraged to max charge attacks to deal real damage while another character does stunlocking to give you time to charge.

If I want a real-time RPG experience, I want it to feel like combat is responsive. There are better multiplayer RPGs and dungeon crawlers that scratch my real time combat RPG itch than this does, especially when the main threat (spells) cannot be reliably dodged. It reminds me of the very first Tales game for the SNES with the constant pausing for spells, though Tales of Phantasia's combat still feels like hits connect more "solidly". The later Tales of games are much more enjoyable when they got away from spells pausing combat and becoming actually dodgeable attacks in Tales of Eternia.


Secret of Mana music is outstanding, I definitely disagree with you here.

I'll give you that the hit detection is kinda wonky. But that's all I'm conceiding :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:16 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I think it might also be detrimental to try to think of the game as an action game. When I first played it, in the 90s mind you, I thought it was a really creative take on the turn based RPG, due to how it incorporates real time movements. I don't think I would ever describe it as an action RPG - especially later in the game where you'll still be fighting most boss battles using the menus. Something that's double true for the game's immediate sequel. I wonder what you'll think of that one - it has better feeling melee combat at least.


I can see what you mean by that - the combat doesn't feel precise enough to really feel like an action RPG and there is a massive emphasis on using the sprite's offensive spells later on to keep tough bosses locked down. But then it ends up feeling worse than many turn based games where there's more option and nuance in terms of choice in what abilities or skills you use. If there's little distinction in positioning or ability to dodge it sucks the joy out of some of the action element. Some of the more interesting fights such as trying to take on the werewolves solo to get the girl before the sprite have the potential fun sucked out when you discover they can kill you simply by knocking you down and repeatedly hitting you on the ground, so you get knocked down each time you stand. You can do this to enemies to an extent too, and I'm on the fence if I'm OK with it similar to beating up an enemy in a traditional beat em up or if it feels a tad dull. I've seen gameplay of the sequel and the melee combat element does indeed look vastly improved.

It feels like the real-time combat and multiplayer elements came at the expensive of an enjoyable and precise game, though I admit I am spoiled by true action RPGs. There's really nothing quite like the best of the Tales of games which came out for the PS2 and sadly still have yet to be translated, and there are other 2-4 player multiplayer games such as dungeon crawlers I've played that nail the top-down realtime action RPG thing that Secret of Mana was going for and Secret of Mana mostly leaves me wanting to play those. I'm not sure if my opinion would be different if I had played Secret of Mana at the time of its release, but I'm pretty sure I would be looking back on it now as a game that had tried but not really succeeded at what it was going for compared to later attempts. Other SNES games that did pseudo turn-based, an ATB time system, or had special timing on button inputs all feel like they hit the mark with what they did better (FFIV to FFVI, Mother 2/Earthbound, Super Mario RPG). There was also Radia Senki for the NES I've played - it's a slower paced game than Secret of Mana, but I enjoyed it a good deal more. Combat is simpler than SoM, but better execution, and an even earlier example of real time combat in a true RPG than Secret of Mana (came out 2 years earlier than SoM).

At least I hope so - I used to be in love with Outrun for the Commodore 64 and now that I actually have experience with the arcade and other ports, it's pretty bad honestly, mostly due to how the traffic works and how unforgiving the game is even compared to the arcade version. The music's great, but I sure as heck don't have nostalgia goggles for the game.

We've just killed off the Vampire so I'd judge we're about halfway through the game. Really no strategy there other than quickly discover Salamando works then spam Fireball repeatedly. When you're "good" at the game it feels a good deal less interesting than your average turn based SNES RPG (be it Final Fantasy, Lennus, Chrono Trigger, etc). Secret of Mana also lacks the first game's freedom of character development. In the first Seiken Densetsu you can freely choose which stats you raise, allowing you to either develop a fighter, mage, HP tank, or one that focuses on the special attack meter. It's pretty interesting and games that allow some player control over development are cool. The closest thing you get here is the ability to use all the weapons on whoever you'd like, though the sequel has way more freedom in terms of character classes so that's likely another reason I'd find the sequel preferable.

I managed to find a few other reviews like this one that echo a lot of my sentiments about the game so I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking Secret of Mana's not all it's cracked up to be.

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I feel like I should mention that all three SNES Final Fantasy games have co-op multiplayer, and it's one of the most underrated features of that series.


I recall FFIV had this removed from the American release, but FFVI and also Chrono Trigger (possibly?) had multiplayer. It was pretty fun to play it with a friend. Earthbound for the SNES also accepts inputs in combat from both controllers if I'm not mistaken.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:51 pm 


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[quote="BareKnuckleRoo]
At least I hope so - I used to be in love with Outrun for the Commodore 64 and now that I actually have experience with the arcade and other ports, it's pretty bad honestly, mostly due to how the traffic works and how unforgiving the game is even compared to the arcade version. The music's great, but I sure as heck don't have nostalgia goggles for the game.[/quote]

Ah man, I had some fun with the various home ports back in the day, but looking back they're all pretty terrible.
I still remember the mocked-up screenshots for the Spectrum version, it was a huge disappointment when I eventually got it home and it looked nothing like the advert. C64.... well, the music was OK I guess.
The Amiga version was the biggest bait & switch ever - I remember the back of the box having a screen shot that looked exactly like the start of the arcade version. Of course, that ended up being a static loading screen the bore no relation at all to the abomination that unfolded once the thing had loaded. Happy days :D
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:03 pm 


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Rain World

This is not the 1st game that has come through my Steam queue that I never heard of and purchased. Watched the trailer, was intrigued, and a quick spoiler free search later informed me that RW is another the less you know the better it is going to be.

I'm about ten hours in and loving it. The game does not hold your hand at all. It starts, you get some pictures, and off you go.

You play as Slug Cat. The game play is set up by cycles of feeding and hibernating. You're on a timer to find food (and not become food) and a place to rest before a daily biblical storm passes through and drowns everything not in a watertight room. The time limit does a really good job of creating tension as there have been several instances where I have either just made it to safety or just missed out on it as time ran out. While you're wandering around you're given little direction where to go and it is possible to wind up in places you definitely do not want to be. Death can come very quickly if you're not careful.

The game can be a bit unforgiving at times, but oddly enough it works here since nature isn't always fair. Controlling Slug Cat takes a bit of getting used to (d pad or bust), but is pretty good overall. Pixel work is great and the music, what little there is, is excellent. Up to this point most of the sounds/music have been ambient.

Don't want to say much else, even though something like this usually isn't in me wheelhouse I am glad I took the chance on it.

Anyone else spend time with it?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:12 pm 


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SoM is almost the quintessential a-RPG of its time and the way the game is timed, hits, etc fits perfectly, it's one of the most enojayble gameplays an universe of its era. Tales aren't even action-RPGs for me, all I'm reading here is sacrilege. :evil: :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:21 pm 


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Never could be bothered to finish Secret of Mana, got bored.

Xyga wrote:
SoM is almost the quintessential a-RPG of its time and the way the game is timed, hits, etc fits perfectly, it's one of the most enojayble gameplays an universe of its era. Tales aren't even action-RPGs for me, all I'm reading here is sacrilege. :evil: :mrgreen:


Tales is so love hate for me. Xillia 1/2 were uggggh.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:36 pm 


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Oh, love them but I've lost interest after Vesperia.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:39 pm 


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Eternia and Abyss were probably my favorites. Vesperia was good too though for sure.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:13 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
SoM is almost the quintessential a-RPG of its time and the way the game is timed, hits, etc fits perfectly, it's one of the most enojayble gameplays an universe of its era. Tales aren't even action-RPGs for me, all I'm reading here is sacrilege. :evil: :mrgreen:

It's an amazing game for sure
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:17 pm 


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Tried again and again to get into SoM but was so annoyed by the shitty hit detection (I don't even think you need to compare it with the gold standard Zelda 3 to see that it's deficient as hell) and the sappy mood killing music that I gave up every time.

Played two hours or so of Katana Zero. First I was amazed by the excellent gameplay and the aesthetics of the game, but soon I wanted to finish the levels as quickly as possible to see where the story was going. Great storytelling and one banging soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pMyRRF ... 8u&index=1

Spoiler: show
Hit detection was excellent as well...
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:00 pm 


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SoM has no hit detection issues, it's a recent troll meme copypasted online, I see reddit and gamefaqs are full of it which tells a lot. I you expect "if I press it must hit period" well it's not that kind of robotic gameplay, you guys simply don't know how to play with its rhythm and placement, it's precise and the flow is amazing.

Also you have shit taste, that game's style and ambiance are fantastic. :P

SoM haters will burn in Hell (along with the remake lol)! :twisted:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:52 pm 


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How is Tales of not even an action RPG for you though? :O

The sad part about the Tales of series is everyone's primary experience with them are the 3D ones nowadays; until we get actual translations of Destiny:R, Destiny 2, and Rebirth, nobody's going to be able to play the awesome 2D ones except people hardcore enough to use a translation guide. Destiny:R is by far the best battle system of any Tales game and that includes all the more recent ones. The pinnacle Tales of battle experience and one that surprisingly plays well early game too (Vesperia is the worst offender, but Symphonia, Abyss, etc all generally play a lot better about halfway through the game when your battle skills flesh out). The 2D Tales of games often play very well even early game, including the handheld Tales of Hearts.

Quote:
Tried again and again to get into SoM but was so annoyed by the shitty hit detection (I don't even think you need to compare it with the gold standard Zelda 3 to see that it's deficient as hell)


I can't help but keep comparing the experience to Brain Lord which I vastly preferred; the melee combat feels vastly better and more precise like a proper action game, you have spells that you can switch to with L/R and cast on the fly by charging attack, you can have up to two helper summons that do things like attack, heal, or provide passive buffs, and you have a large number of weapons (sword, axe, flail, bow, boomerang). The boomerang in Brain Lord is insanely satisfying to use and is OP as all hell due to its range and speed, and the spells are really fun, far more fun than the spells or charge attacks in SoM.

I swear Brain Lord is some kind of unknown cult classic for the SNES, I can't be the only one who really enjoyed it.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:08 pm 


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I enjoyed Hearts R.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:30 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I swear Brain Lord is some kind of unknown cult classic for the SNES, I can't be the only one who really enjoyed it.


Always thought the name was ill as fuck, but assumed it was some random DQ knockoff. :o Sounds like it might need to go on my SFC topdown ARPG test list along with Alcahest.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:39 pm 


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@Roo; most Tales battle systems rely more or less on auto aim/movement/placement, same in the Star Ocean series. They're c-RPGs (classical) introducing partial action, the dodge and block mechanics aren't much practical not vital, and in the normal difficulty modes you can easily play without paying close attention to that.
They're more button mashing-enhanced c-RPGs with a little more freedom but mostly simulated.
The lines are blurred with so many variants in the world of RPGs but in a real a-RPG placement and hit timings completely depend on you, like it's required by the basics of action games that don't rely on assistance, and there's a ton more of that in a game like SoM - bar the magic - compared to any Tales or SO I've played (haven't played Destiny R tho, it seems more physical than most)
Not saying I don't like the Tales/SO school, I love them to death, but I don't call them a-RPGs.

Note: NA press, or maybe more broadly the english-speaking press has always classified variants of RPG gameplays slightly differently than what I've always read here, in the english press anything that's not elementary turn-based can be labelled as 'action-RPG', even if the attack action control is not 100% direct. This still verifies today, take legendra.com the largest french-speaking rpg dedicated site, there Tales and SO are considered strictly c-RPG in the database.

EDIT: I think I'm beginning to see what went wrong for those who don't like SoM's gameplay, they expected to blast things around quick, asap, and SoM isn't like that rather it's a game in which you must gauge time and reaction to battle in sync, slap the enemies on the right spot at the right time. Frankly all the comments about 'shit hit detection' I'm reading make it sound like it's people who've just tried to mash and blast enemies around with zero attemps at trying to feel the game's flow and they've lost patience (understandable since the game constantly rejects and punishes you if that's how you try to play)
Also criticism, about literally every aspect of the game to absurd levels, increases magnitudes after the remake's release, 'internet effect' yay, haters are the loudest so they shape opinion.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:16 pm 


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This is so weird. Back then, everyone I knew who played SoM, adored the game. And from the feedbacks and reviews I saw on the new fangled innernet in late '90s, the game seemed universally loved. You would have been hard pressed to find a bad review. (oh and everybody was gushing about the soundtrack. rightfully so)
But now there's like, half the players who hate it?

Wha happun???
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:18 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Wha happun???

Internet.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:19 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
Internet.


I guess so

And yes you got a good theory I think regarding the hit detection problem people seem to have. It's designed so that you gotta wait between hits(you gotta hit and retreat), so of course if you mash attack button in front of the enemy, you will whiff some of those inputs. And the enemy hitbox is small and kinda specific to each enemy and it disappear when enemies block. So it's got a strategic flavour that maybe new players don't understand. The hit detection is not lenient, but it is constant(I don't think it wavers or eats inputs or anything. You gotta learn its subtleties. and the combat and flow is obviously built around it).

I myself always thought the combat was smooth and had a good flow. You adapt and it just becomes second nature. you learn to be precise with your attacks and time them well, and it feels good when you land them and doesn't feel unfair to me since it's constant as I said previously. nice rythm/flow to the combat as far as I'm concerned
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 pm 


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"button mashing"

Set your controls to Manual mode and don't look back. The Tales of games have way more than just button mashing at high level play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAsmDUazEZE - Tales of Rebirth (spoilery fight)- Showcases advancing guard cancel combos, Silver Armlet perfect guarding at 1:37. The most tactical of the 2D games in terms of pre-fight equipment and skill setup as well as using accessories to nullify ailments such as Panic and Paralysis. There's a ton of different ways you can setup characters and the equipment you can refine and produce has a huge impact on how you manage the skill gauges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6qRQN1ktY4 - Tales of Destiny R, highest rank arena fight (includes fights against all major bosses, spoilers if you care) - Philia has tons of i-frame moves including Hide Party which he forward guards out of to purposefully eat hits while in Flash state to build Blast Calibur meter, and of course Force Field, the close range juggle that flat out stops attacks. The solo game in this can be a bit silly in that you can go mad crazy with juggles with the right setup and keep single bosses juggled to death. Doesn't use too many spells in spite of being the game's de-facto offensive caster, but you'll see spell combos like Lightning -> Holy Lance -> Tidal Wave. Spells in this game can be comboed and have their casting time reduced the further along the combo is, hence starting with low level spells. The game also has an extensive aerial combat system including a couple characters with specific aerial exclusive attacks (Stahn and Leon's air combo spells, Kongman's aerial variations, the universal Aiming Step that also shows up in Tales of Hearts to get you up in the air to juggle enemies).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZnHnu8C6Hw - Tales of Destiny R - A more standard 4 party member boss fight, against one that showcases the "Penetrate" system where the boss puts up essentially superarmor for a certain # of hits, meaning that you have to maximize your combo chances when you break penetrate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi0yTKwXvig - Tales of Symphonia - Spell cancelling showcase, where you can chain attacks repeatedly in ways you couldn't normally by use of spell cancelling (which requires using a spell a certain # times before you can use it as cancel fodder). Several of the 3D games have this as a kind of hidden mechanic. Character is setup with a nearly full elemental immunity but still has several attacks that require precise spacing and backstepping to dodge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrhGxhAhOVc - Tales of Destiny 2 - Fight against a boss that eventually auto-counters spellcasting below half health, which you can bait with careful spell cancelling to your advantage. The game largely revolves around magic damage, but it's important to play frontline well to protect casters, and as with most Tales games the spellcasters have decent melee capabilities too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oNV_ogi6YA - Star Ocean 3 - Showcases dual character Manual mode comboing as well as unlockable Full Active Mode which essentially means attacks instantly execute where you're standing (same idea as Tales of Manual control mode, it allows for use of long range skills at longer ranges, and more interesting and unusual combo options). The game has i-frames on dodges, as well as a couple characters with actual counters such as Peppita who has i-frame counters on both her Short Minor and Short Major: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgD-bQP0EXE

"button mashing" lol

BIL wrote:
Always thought the name [Brain Lord] was ill as fuck, but assumed it was some random DQ knockoff. :o Sounds like it might need to go on my SFC topdown ARPG test list along with Alcahest.


It's an amazing top-down action adventure game. Not the longest game out there but if you're into stuff like Zelda 3 you should definitely dig it. I loved the music in it and I found the dungeons really enjoyable to explore, they're pretty huge and feel great to get lost in.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:48 pm 


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I knew you would take what I said exactly the wrong way I didn't mean. *sigh*
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:57 pm 


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Then I dunno, work on improving your communication? I mean you did say "most Tales battle systems rely more or less on auto aim/movement/placement" which is only true for AI characters or if you use Semi-Auto controls and I responded to that thusly. If you want the full combat experience the games have to offer you gotta play in Manual mode.

SoM has mediocre combat and even at the time it was made the plot was cliché and the writing sucks relative to other SNES localizations of the time. I'm not apologizing for not enjoying it. I'm having fewer issues with combat now that I'm used to the "rules" of when enemies can and can't be attacked, but I'm still not finding it particularly fun or engaging compared to similar games, and I'm flat out dreading when I have to wait for level 6 or 7 weapon charges to fill before attacking an enemy. It also appears the Spear generally is the sucky melee weapon of the game, I find it vastly easier to connect hits with the Sword and Glove charges.

Most of the GameFAQs reviews of Brain Lord are negative, pretty damn disheartening. Do people really see it as a bad game? One of the top reviews that's negative even incorrectly claims there's no magic in the game aside from the summons (wtf?). :'(
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:08 am 


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okay, dude, whatever.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:30 am 


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FinalBaton wrote:
This is so weird. Back then, everyone I knew who played SoM, adored the game. And from the feedbacks and reviews I saw on the new fangled innernet in late '90s, the game seemed universally loved. You would have been hard pressed to find a bad review. (oh and everybody was gushing about the soundtrack. rightfully so)
But now there's like, half the players who hate it?

Wha happun???


For what it's worth I couldn't get into SoM the first time I played it in the early 00s.

As far as Tales games you can easily just mash on attack and win. I don't think that's even a question. And I suppose you can dick with the settings but like...I can't say I care enough to do so nor would it really be worth it for me.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:02 am 


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Secret of Mana's combat is Morrowind-tier bad. No depth, lots of waiting. Winning is about higher stats and stunlock cheese. Random missing is frustrating and adds nothing of value.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:29 am 


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Installing a new PSU in my Omega MVS has led to an almost obsessive level of Neo Turf Masters play. This has been a top-tier Neo game for me for many years (probably only rivaled by the original Metal Slug and Garou) and after returning to it I've reached a level of play that is 'good' (averaging about -7 to -9) but still a ways away from truly understanding the game and constantly having runs killed by easily preventable mistakes. In short, it's amazing. I've drafted a couple of work colleagues into a tourney and am hoping (but not hopeful) that I can ignite the bug in them. The pixel precision in this game is really something to behold and picking apart the math problems has me feeling a bit Neo-ish, pardon the cliche, but definitely a sign of an incredibly well-designed experience.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:16 am 


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I think most of the common criticisms commonly directed at SoM are justified - at least the menu/combat stuff. (how you can't enjoy the game's atmosphere, music and world in general is beyond me :))

I think to me, the wonky combat just doesn't matter much. I liked that part because it was original, but I also didn't expect any more from it. The game is super charming, and I can't really dislike it no matter how much you can pick it apart. Chrono Trigger's combat is also mostly completely non-satisfying due to how simple the stategy is, and every fight being mostly really easy, but it's still one of my favourite games.

EDIT: Congratulations, this was my post number 5000 !


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:25 pm 


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When I was a 5 year old or so in the last year or two of the twentieth century, word of mouth was all over the place about how fuckin' sick radical Secret of Mana was. My Mom and I constantly scoured pre-owned game stores looking for a copy, but sadly never found one.

One of those games that I immediately ran to download a rom of once I was exposed to the magic of the internet and emulators. Said rom was snugly tucked away in a folder (alongside many of its kind) with the promise that I'd save it for a special rainy day.

The rain has not yet come.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:50 pm 


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Wonky hit detection in SoM?

Are you talking about the stat-rolls when it comes to hits? Like sometimes you can smack something but it's like you didn't hit it at all because their agility is too high or something so the hit doesn't count.
Like morrowind, as Vanguard said.

Then there's how it seems to 'tote-up' damage and then suddenly let it all come at once in the form of a hard knock down or an enemy spontaneously exploding.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:04 pm 


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Yep, enemies sometime evade your hits, just like it happens in a turned-based RPG. and your character evades too

This mechanic has never bothered me, but it sure does seem to bother many people these days. I guess it's not for everyone
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:21 am 


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Damn y'all, my last two posts in this thread have been about Virtua Racing and Neo Turf Masters, and you guys are wanting to talk about Final Fantasy and Secret of Mana instead... I'm perhaps inappropriately saddened by this.
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