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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:15 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
Talking about FF, yesterday I gave 7 my first play in something like 20 years lol.

Played until out of Midgar, and I was more than pleasantly surprised, it's a rollercoaster of things that haven't aged well, and many that remained awesome, overall still great.
The amount of work and creativity that's been put into that game remains impressive.

Think I'll keep playing.


I purchased my first PSX in 1996 just so I could play Final Fantasy 7. Even Chrono Trigger couldn't have prepared me for the alternative reality created by that game. Perhaps by today's standards it's lost among a sea of titles with more technology behind them, but it was a very different experience at a time when nothing had been done like it before.
My second favorite is FF XII, but that's for the unusual skill management system and battle system. It doesn't effect me physiologically the same way that 7 did.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:24 pm 


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Oh sure when it came out FF7 was earth-shattering, there was simply nothing like it at the time.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:31 pm 


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Everyone was talking about it at the time. Ground breaking game.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:43 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
PS: aw yeah feels so good to be the open, really, RPGs that lack either explorable overworld-map or 'full'open world don't feel right for me.

Yep I realy prefer it when an FF has those. That's when it feels right to me. Overworld map FTW.

For an FF to NOT have that and still be enjoyable to me, it REALLY needs to make up for it with something else exciting. And speaking of that, the very, very dank combat in FFX did that for me. so linear, so on rails. but man dat combat. it made me tolerate the lack of overworld map

Also I thought that VII was lacking in the overworld map ratio. a bit too many bits on rails for my liking. I think IX is better in that respect

And yes the hype was nuclear for VII. and it was so dang impressive at the time. I like the game, but there's a bunch of FF I like better
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:27 pm 


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I thought FFIX's map is rather uninteresting tbh. The outer continents are so sparse.

It's definitely on rails for most of the game, too.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:42 pm 


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Still lots of places to visit and freedom compared to no-world/map games, though the interest of explorable overworlds is often essentially in sidequests. I love that anyway, games without travel and exploration feel so claustrophobic, or like a film/novel, which doesn't fit the fantasy theme for video games IMO.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:49 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
Still lots of places to visit and freedom compared to no-world/map games, though the interest of explorable overworlds is often essentially in sidequests. I love that anyway, games without travel and exploration feel so claustrophobic, or like a film/novel, which doesn't fit the fantasy theme for video games IMO.

Yep still more places to visit in it than in a complete on rail games at the end of the day, even if it's not that extensive.

100% feel the same as what you've written in your post there
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:01 pm 


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I think the remake is almost guaranteed to lack the overworld...that would suck as it was massively part of the game's experience and identity.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:11 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
For an FF to NOT have that and still be enjoyable to me, it REALLY needs to make up for it with something else exciting. And speaking of that, the very, very dank combat in FFX did that for me. so linear, so on rails. but man dat combat. it made me tolerate the lack of overworld map


Yeah, FFX is hugely linear - there are no real places to get lost exploring or wandering on your own, replaying the game doesn't offer any major choices in terms of what sequence to do things like you get in the original FF or in FF6 late game. You get a few optional areas opened up late in the game, but up to that point FFX is on-rails linear with no real opportunities to go exploring the vast world on your own (which is sorta the point of the plot after all, you have a very clear "goal" in mind heading to Zanarkand, so it fits).

If you're into FFX style turn-based combat, I highly recommend Starcrawlers. You make a team of 4 out of 8 classes of character (or can hire all 8 then choose 4 per mission) to go on runs through derelict spaceships, corporate facility raids, etc, fighting off hostile robots and corporate security squads and mercenaries. It's a great turn based combat game that supports custom character art with a futuristic Shadowrun style setting to the game (if you've played the Sega Genesis version of Shadowrun, it will feel like it has a LOT of similarities). There are 3 major story paths with various subtle differences, and infinite random missions to play when levelling up or looting dungeons for gear, similar to playing a Wizardry game. Each character class has 3 distinct skill trees you can freely pick and choose abilities to use, so each class can be different depending on what skill tree you max out (though there's New Game + and ++, eventually you can max out all 3 skill trees, though you still only have 5 skill slots to set skills to in combat). Also, each character's skills also affects their out-of-combat exploration options, so who you use affects what options you have during different events.

Starcrawlers is basically a rad mix of FFX style combat with Wizardry dungeon crawling in a futuristic Shadowrun type of universe.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:45 pm 


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I've watched the Mrs. play FFX on several occasions. For the life of me I can't figure out what she sees in it.

XV in the other hand I think I may actually play when she is done with it.

Finished RE 4. Main game could probably be a bit shorter (maybe cut a chapter from the castle and island) but overall a lot of fun.

Almost finished with Separate Ways, fthen the real fun starts.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:40 am 


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FFX was the only one that ever really clicked with me, I even enjoyed it on replay. The main thing was the story, of course, and I also liked the combat system well enough. But I subsequently gave up playing both IX and VII after a certain point. Part of it was probably because I was at the time very anal about playing "mechanically deep" games, and, even though I wanted to enjoy the stories, I got turned off by the slow battles. They all seemed like totally linear games, but maybe I didn't get far enough, or pursue enough side quests. In any case I want to play XV, if for no other reason than to see what place the series has ended up since I missed XII and XIII.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:18 am 


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As a fan coming from I-V, I found IX lacking. As much as I wanted to like it, I realized once the initial "Wow, they brought back Sword Magic! And there's the classic bass riff!" factor faded that it was still one of the movie FFs with convoluted grinding and cutscenes that go on forever, made worse by the fact that its loading times make VII's look short.

There is a section near the end of Disc 1 where Freya, a dragoon, is the only character in your party with decent defense. While I have no complaints about Freya herself, the fact of the matter is that like all dragoons, she isn't all that effective unless you're having her jump all the time, and every turn she spends in the air is another turn for Zidane, Vivi, and the blue thing to get pummeled.

And apparently Tents have a 50% chance of inflicting Poison, Darkness and Silence when used as an item? That's an incredibly useful thing to know! How was anyone that played the past eight games expected to even guess that Tents suddenly gained this remarkably powerful side effect? Who would even try to use a Tent as an item during battle when doing so had been pointless for the past 13 years?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:24 am 


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Neither game in the franchise is perfect, though the PS1 games were still at least at the core base-FF formula.
And then...
X ... lol that's the one that ended it for me, I hated almost everything about it.
XII ... unbelievable performance for the PS2, but not my kind of game for too many reasons (shit I expected a core FF in the world of Tactics, silly me)
Haven't played XV yet but I don't think I will.
I've always been a conservative ass when it comes to game franchises, if I play several games of one it's because I like the formula. Change it significantly and that's a nope.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:56 am 


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Once I got over Tidus' voice, I loved X and its and story.

Often FF games are a physical journey for the characters, this one feels more like a pilgrimage until the group slowly unravels the problems with their world consuming religion and eventually throw off the shackles.
FF usually doesn't stick to theme as well as that.

Possibly one of my favourite moments in any game story.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:10 am 


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Xyga wrote:
X ... lol that's the one that ended it for me, I hated almost everything about it.


That's the game that actually made me trade in my PS2 for an Xbox, and was single-handedly responsible for me not playing another JRPG until Lost Odyssey went free a few years ago. Oh wait, I did try Blue Dragon when the 360 came out, and I hated that.

I've a Tales game that I picked up on sale on the PS4's HD (Zestiria I think), but I'll probably just end up picking up IX on Swith and replaying that. Played VII too many times now, and I remember hating the battle system in VIII.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:19 am 


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I don't feel right calling FF7 "groundbreaking" by itself. Sure, it was a huge impact on the video game world, but purely as a game I don't feel like it did anything FF6 didn't do. In fact right when it came out, I was sorely disappointed by there only being one overworld, leaving behind what had been a Final Fantasy trope for the previous four installments at that point.
What was new here, of course, was the big pre-rendered backgrounds and the FMV video, which is apparently what it really took to win people over to the FF series. Though even more so I guess was simply the fact that this was the first game in the series to see a largely world wide release. Until FF7, the Final Fantasy series was this underground sort-of-niche series that required expensive importing. So if you weren't a nerd you hadn't heard of it, and FF7 obviously changed that.


The tiny-man-on-a-huge-worldmap is one of my favourite JRPG tropes, and the thing I miss the most from the 8- and 16-bit eras. It's what ensures the sense of exploration, which supports the sense of adventure which, to me, is incredibly important in an RPG! It's also the reason why I love Dragon Quests 6, 2 and 3 higher than any other game in the series.
I agree completely that FF9's world map is a bore. Although I love the game, its overworld feels completely cosmetic, usually offering you absolutely no places to go outside of moving from your previous location to the next. It was a clear sign of what was to come in FFX.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:17 am 


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I love FF6 and have tried to get people to play it, and bang the drum of "best FF" quite a bit.
I played it before 7.

yet when I think back, 7 has more of an emotional effect on me. It tugs my heartstrings more to picture that rolling world map and remember notes of the theme. You can't discount the game's atmosphere, basically.

The worldwide release is the big one. This was the first taste of story driven JRPG that a whole generation of westerners ever had.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:38 am 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
And apparently Tents have a 50% chance of inflicting Poison, Darkness and Silence when used as an item?

This is the sort of thing that turned me off of FF9; there's so much random, unintuitive nonsense in there that they never bother to explain to you (how the card game works, a number of the skills you learn, etc.), and this even applies to the infamously terrible player's guide book for it, which constantly teases "There's a secret here, want to know what it is? Visit PlayOnline.com" or whatever the heck it was. Basically it feels like they were trying to resurrect the NES-era Nintendo Power "you'll never figure this out unless you spend extra on having us tell you" business model; a lot of people name 9 as one of their series favorites, but I was never able to get past that aspect, or finish the game, and don't ever plan to.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:44 pm 


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Beat the final boss in Etrian Odyssey. Only took me 5 years lol.

The postgame requires either specific character skill setups or the right grimoir skills, correct? Because in that case I'm done with this game.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:53 pm 


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Also had anyone ever noticed how similar the stories of Grandia 2 and FF X are?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:41 pm 


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It's been some time since I played either, but I never really thought of them that way, probably mainly because the Grandia 2 protag was more of a Cloud-esque "I'm an aloof jerk until I finally see the light" character as opposed to Tidus's affable goofball. IIRC both do involve hauling a priestess all over the place to fight off some malevolent deity or other, but then again so do half of JRPGs. :P
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:35 pm 


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In defense of IX, the Chocobo treasure hunts did bring some much needed map exploration and helped alleviate the situation somewhat. Granted you didn't find a dungeon at the end of it(which would have been better), but the search itself actually is fun and you had a TON of them to find, with the prospect of finding juicy items. It's "hidden in plain sight" so you really gotta pay attention to the scenery and landmarks that are around you, and actually is some in-depth searches you gotta do here. I really enjoy that part of the game. When you add a strong, touching story and strong characters and world building and an elite OST to the mix, I think you get a pretty dang good game.
(Oh, there's also the creatures who Quizzes that you gotta search for. And also, getting blue magic requires travelling and finding maybe new monsters by exploring all types of terrain on each part of the map and dungeons. So hey there's that at least :lol: but it doesn't have the deepest potential for exploration, for sure.)


In regards to what Blinge said of emotional impact being more important than a good overworld map : I think what made VI so special is that it has BOTH. few games pulled that off.
(I myself won't turn down an old jrpg on the account that it doesn't have a gripping story. Having the exploration aspect is enough to get me pumped to go on an adventure and play the games for hours on end and with a big smile on my face. Heck even the prospect of "GO SAVE PRINCESS FROM DRAGIN. HERE'S A SWORD. GO EXPLOR" is enough for me. So you can tell I'm a big fan of "tiny man on big map". But a more cinematic, touching journey is great entertainment too and I like that as well. I like VII, as I said above. Very intense moments with shocking turn of events and great atmosphere. And I like X too).


Lastly, I think nostalgia definitely informs our preferences here wheter we like it or not. People who played VII first will likely have a special place in their heart for that game, just like Final Fantasy on NES has a very special place in mine : I picked the game up on it's North American release in 1990 and the game just blew my friggin mind. first jrpg I ever played and it hooked me instantly. and actually is the game that made me a gamer "4 lyfe". I also played IV on it's North American launch in late 1991 and that game impressed me so goddamn much. Blew my mind, repeat of what the first one did but bigger even. I could not believe the leap in graphics and sound (IV is my fave FF soundtrack, I feel like it has the strongest compositions Uematsu ever did) and the mode 7 airship... I don't care about the gameplay not being super duper deep or if it "objectively" (god I hate that term) isn't very strong : that game RULES in my mind, haha. The look and FEEL of that game is godly, and the basic premise of Dark Knight turned Paladin is classic, come on. Hey some touching moments too in that game! at least it is for me. Just some overall massive CHARM going on. IV is often dismissed, but people who played it in 1991/1992 know how big of a deal that game is.


(I need to replay the fan translation for V, haven't done that since the late '90s on emulators. I remember loving it. And same with III on Famicom, really really dig that game. That job system is ace. I replayed that latter one more recently)
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:53 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I don't feel right calling FF7 "groundbreaking" by itself. Sure, it was a huge impact on the video game world, but purely as a game I don't feel like it did anything FF6 didn't do. In fact right when it came out, I was sorely disappointed by there only being one overworld, leaving behind what had been a Final Fantasy trope for the previous four installments at that point.
What was new here, of course, was the big pre-rendered backgrounds and the FMV video, which is apparently what it really took to win people over to the FF series. Though even more so I guess was simply the fact that this was the first game in the series to see a largely world wide release. Until FF7, the Final Fantasy series was this underground sort-of-niche series that required expensive importing. So if you weren't a nerd you hadn't heard of it, and FF7 obviously changed that.


I will 100% clear up my statement. I meant culturally, nothing to do with the game itself in any way. It changed the way people view JRPGs in the US. The impact might have been different in Europe.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:47 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I don't feel right calling FF7 "groundbreaking" by itself. Sure, it was a huge impact on the video game world, but purely as a game I don't feel like it did anything FF6 didn't do.


It did most of what FF6 did better.

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In fact right when it came out, I was sorely disappointed by there only being one overworld, leaving behind what had been a Final Fantasy trope for the previous four installments at that point.


True. No argument there. I strongly suspect this the primary source of backlash against FF7 in general. I don't think it ruins the game though. It succeeds because it brought something greater than multiple world maps to the table.

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What was new here, of course, was the big pre-rendered backgrounds and the FMV video, which is apparently what it really took to win people over to the FF series.


That's one of many things that were "new here." The music was a huge step up. The mini games were sophisticated. The graphics were in a whole different league. The third-person 3D views in the towns gave the game a look and feel unlike anything that had come before it and created a level of emotional immersion that was indeed "groundbreaking" in not just a FF game, but in a video game period.

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Though even more so I guess was simply the fact that this was the first game in the series to see a largely world wide release.


The fact that it was a world-wide release doesn't mean it wasn't succeeding on it's own merits. There were lots and lots of "world-wide releases" that utterly tanked. This game was a phenomenon because it was awesome and because it got a wider audience.

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The tiny-man-on-a-huge-worldmap is one of my favourite JRPG tropes, and the thing I miss the most from the 8- and 16-bit eras. It's what ensures the sense of [i]exploration, which supports the sense of adventure which, to me, is incredibly important in an RPG! It's also the reason why I love Dragon Quests 6, 2 and 3 higher than any other game in the series.


I get you. I also like RPGs with this aspect. Love all those games you mentioned, but there's room in my heart for games without the little guy on a map and I don't feel that's solely responsible for a sense of exploration.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:11 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
IIRC both do involve hauling a priestess all over the place to fight off some malevolent deity or other, but then again so do half of JRPGs. :P


Fair. I don't play many so the similarities stuck out more.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:02 am 


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guess i'm gonna clear data east's robocop game. it's really dumpy and clunky, but it's decently dumpy. The elevator section is kind of sloppy design though, and if there's too many projectiles that cause slowdown, then the jump won't always be responsive :s


Also, all this talk in here about which Final Fantasy game was cooler or w/e, just go play Legend of Legaia instead xP
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:42 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
In regards to what Blinge said of emotional impact being more important than a good overworld map : I think what made VI so special is that it has BOTH. few games pulled that off.
(I myself won't turn down an old jrpg on the account that it doesn't have a gripping story. Having the exploration aspect is enough to get me pumped to go on an adventure and play the games for hours on end and with a big smile on my face. Heck even the prospect of "GO SAVE PRINCESS FROM DRAGIN. HERE'S A SWORD. GO EXPLOR" is enough for me. So you can tell I'm a big fan of "tiny man on big map". But a more cinematic, touching journey is great entertainment too and I like that as well. I like VII, as I said above. Very intense moments with shocking turn of events and great atmosphere. And I like X too).

I feel like I could have made that post. Agreed on every aspect.
Also, FF4 is objectively incredibly good. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I'm not sure if it was this or FF6 that sold me on the series.

The only thing I felt FF7 may have done better than FF6 was the story. Like, FF6 probably has better storytelling altogether - the dialogue just feels more convincing, and the plot is actually completely coherent and effective, while FF7 is where the series (and genre as a whole) starts going all over the place with trying to confuse the player unnecessarily and getting a bit too crazy and metaphoric with its concepts. However, like FinalBaton is getting at, it also just does something extremely well - it has a lot of super memorable moments that really speak to the emotions, and the characters in general are great.

But I can't see how anyone could possibly make the claim that FF7's soundtrack was a "huge step up", compared to the SNES trilogy OSTs, which are all among the best video game soundtracks ever :O


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:25 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
But I can't see how anyone could possibly make the claim that FF7's soundtrack was a "huge step up", compared to the SNES trilogy OSTs, which are all among the best video game soundtracks ever :O

Absofuckinglutely agree!
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:14 pm 


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I think we have to step outside of the 'huge step up' definition to explain that.
It comes down to the technology really and the ability to have a more varied soundtrack, with more varied instrumentation and a 'full' feeling to the music. All this coming together when the game is experienced as a complete work.
Basically my same point about the atmosphere again.

Also screw that - I'll give you 6 as a contender for better soundtrack but 4 or 5? na uh.
I don't particularly like 4's battle theme tbh. 7's is amazing.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:22 pm 


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