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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:38 am 


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So YOU'RE the other guy who played it!
iconoclast wrote:
The only things I can complain about are the unskippable battle animations

I presumably haven't unlocked everything yet, but as of the moment I think the only animations you can't fast-forward are the "session" team-ups (which aren't terribly long but yeah, you do use them a lot); the lengthier "special" and "ad lib" attacks can be skipped. If there's something else coming that will try my patience I'll presumably know it when I see it, heh.

EDIT: Yeeaahh, I think I might've just stumbled onto it. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:59 am 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Oh and BY THE BY : while I'm drunk and shooting the shit :
Where the FUK is BIL?... not gonna beat around the bush here, I miss the guy. Hopefully the only reason he's not here is the ill-fabeld "IRL bulshitt"...

Main example for why he's sorely missed from the discussion : I see countless people discussing gameplay on here, but very few discuss both gameplay AND the dredd that 8/16 bit background layers can induce in the player... yeah that is a special kinda freak. kitten delights us with that kind of analysis too, which is really appreciated.

just putting that out here... just a minor gripe.. give sign of life you magnificent motherfucker!

This is a beautiful post, sending salutes & wishes of ill repute in the direction of Brexit Brimshireland o7

And on another note...

If you guys haven't been checking out Little Square Things on Steam, what is your problem?! It's a fantastic DOS-themed retro puzzler. I don't really like most puzzle games, but this one is great.

Here's the author's homepage, along with an elderly (2008, that's practically DOS times) version of the game:

https://gsreed.com/lst/

Also a picture of the author having fun with VR in '13:
https://www.uah.edu/news/research/reed- ... -doctorate


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:47 am 


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Narc (arcade) - Took it down on maximum difficulty, level 10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEAbqvKWqcQ
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 am 


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Vanguard wrote:
It allows a single save which can be saved and loaded at any time outside of battles. It's definitely worth loading a save if someone dies, inventory space is absurdly limited even with a full party. As far as resources go, wood and tonics seem to be the only ones that can be permanently lost. The game is generous enough that you shouldn't need to savescum or be especially stingy.


Ow.
As far as I've been told, perma-death is one of the central aspects of Sweet Home. It sounds really dumb to combine that mechanic with an instant save/load. Does the game do anything to prevent you from simply save scumming any time anyone dies?
If not, that sounds like it just makes the mechanic frustrating rather than adding an atmospheric layer of danger, which I suppose is the intended effect.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:36 am 


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Sumez wrote:
Ow.
As far as I've been told, perma-death is one of the central aspects of Sweet Home. It sounds really dumb to combine that mechanic with an instant save/load. Does the game do anything to prevent you from simply save scumming any time anyone dies?


Nothing whatsoever. I'd be willing to play it where it lies, except you lose two inventory slots and you also have to give up one of your survivors' inventory slots to replace the dead guy's personal item. Even in a full party inventory space is extremely tight. If you play ironman Sweet Home you basically need to make sure no one ever dies, though that shouldn't be hard with a bit of foreknowledge. If you pray immediately when someone gets stunned and watch out for quicksand then you should be golden.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:30 pm 


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gameoverDude wrote:
Narc (arcade) - Took it down on maximum difficulty, level 10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEAbqvKWqcQ


whoa, very nice
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:18 pm 


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FutureGrind

You ride a bike with colored wheels, track comes in various colors. Match the wheel to the track or die. The more tracks you touch the higher your multiplier goes. Then you do tricks and get tha pointz.

Soundtrack is pretty good and the graphics got this whole flat poly thing going on that works quite well for this game. Most important of course is that it is fun as hell and controls perfectly.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:39 pm 


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Rockmen R2!
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:35 pm 


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gameoverDude wrote:
Narc (arcade) - Took it down on maximum difficulty, level 10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEAbqvKWqcQ


Impressive.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:58 am 


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I finally started Etrian Odyssey 1. Dang is this game stingy with quality-of-life features. I heard you couldn't sidestep, but you can't even rename your dudes? The shop doesn't tell you how its items compare to the ones you have equipped? Even Squaresoft figured that one out in the SNES era. I've long heard that LP/MST is the best team so that's what I'm using. I've also heard how broken immunize is, so I shan't be using it, at least before postgame. We'll see if I stick with it.

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Rockmen R2!


How is it?


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:24 am 


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Was in a ‘can’t be bothered’ mood yesterday, so ended clearing Tiny Toons on SNES. Fun enough, lots of variety and beautiful visuals, but the controls - particularly the dash and kick attack thing feel a tad sloppy. It was fun, but slight, and I have no real compulsion to go back and try the harder difficulty.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:59 pm 


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I'm discovering I don't particularly like any of the non-NES versions of Bubble Bobble. The jumping in the series as a whole is rather stiff which makes them trickier to enjoy as much as I'd like, but the NES version has an important change from the arcade version that makes it much different, and frankly better.

Normally in arcade authentic versions, you can't blow up a bubble while standing against a wall and then jump on top of it. What happens is your body pops the bubble instantly as the bubble is forming. In the NES version however, you can only pop bubbles when they have formed completely which means you can be directly against a wall, blow a bubble, and then jump on top of it using it as a platform. This means you can escape from vertical, single-tile width pits which would be normally inescapable in versions where you can't jump on bubbles spawned point-blank against a wall. This includes later ports such as Bubble Bobble Neo, which specifically has pits in such levels, meaning if you fall down there is literally no way out.

Vanguard wrote:
Even in a full party inventory space is extremely tight. If you play ironman Sweet Home you basically need to make sure no one ever dies, though that shouldn't be hard with a bit of foreknowledge.


Basically, in the early game of Sweet Home it can be permanently fatal to lose a teammate if you are stuck without one of their key items. You do eventually find replacements for those items that can be used by anyone, and the game is designed so that if you did lose multiple people you can still beat it (even alone), but clearly doing so is much more difficult.

Dying is not too difficult to avoid though; combat isn't too bad in the sense that there's no instadeath attacks, and the main hazard is the various traps in the game - try and keep your members together in case of a broken board or something like that and attempt to minimize how much damage you take as healing is limited. Also, sending a group of two in against new strong encounters you're not healed up and prepared for will likely go badly (always use a group of three and have the two others join in fights as need be for max safety).

Everything that could potentially kill you can be prepared for and there's nothing random that's instantly fatal equivalent to instadeath Critical Hits like in the Wizardry series where those can and will permadeath people, without much you can do to reliably prevent them from ever happening.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:32 pm 


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Wasn't aware of that on the NES version - can certainly see how it would make later levels more manageable. I do remember thinking Neo was ass for a bunch of other reasons though, not least of which I'm sure enemy behaviour was completely altered? It's been a long while, but I remember basically buying it, playing it for an hour, and turning off in disgust.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:40 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I'm discovering I don't particularly like any of the non-NES versions of Bubble Bobble. The jumping in the series as a whole is rather stiff which makes them trickier to enjoy as much as I'd like, but the NES version has an important change from the arcade version that makes it much different, and frankly better.

As someone who has spent hours on the arcade version, the NES version of Bubble Bobble honestly feels painfully crummy...
I get the point you're making, it's an issue they fixed for the arcade sequels too, but honestly if you take a little time to learn the game, you'll quickly figure out how to avoid ever getting into situations where you need that mechanic to save your ass. In fact several stages are entirely designed around those being a major hazard.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:58 pm 


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Did the arcade sequels of Bubble Bobble change this behavior? I have played them a bit but honestly can't remember if they make it possible to get out of single-tile width pits by bubble jumping against a wall, but if so, then I guess my complaint only applies to the original Bubble Bobble arcade and Bubble Bobble Neo.

Quote:
In fact several stages are entirely designed around those being a major hazard.


Why not put spikes in them then? Why force the player to wait around there for an enemy to come and kill them? If the game had more flexible platforming where you could freely change direction with jumps I'd be less opposed to it, but the jumping feels tricky and stiff; you have to commit to jumps, and inescapable pits where you are forced to sit and wait to die don't strike me as fun. The joy of Bubble Bobble comes from rushing around jumping on top of bubbles you've made rushing around the map to capture enemies and those pits directly suck the fun out of that.

Keep in mind that even with the NES's change to allow you to escape them, they do remain a hazard as it takes time to get out of them, they're just not a fatal hazard.

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I do remember thinking Neo was ass for a bunch of other reasons though, not least of which I'm sure enemy behaviour was completely altered? It's been a long while, but I remember basically buying it, playing it for an hour, and turning off in disgust.


This happened the last few times I fired up Bubble Bobble Neo with a group of friends. It never really went over well, the 3D instead of 2D sprites have a slightly unusual look to them, and I think last time I picked one of the DLC arrange courses, and lo and behold, an early level had single-tile width pits that were inescapable.

Every time I try to play it I get disheartened by it. Frankly I'm about ready to just delete it and forget about Bubble Bobble Neo.

Maybe it's just Bubble Bobble Neo that's got me annoyed in particular - is the level design in its remixed levels regarded as being subpar or something?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:32 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Why not put spikes in them then? Why force the player to wait around there for an enemy to come and kill them?

It's not like you can't get out, it just isn't easy to time correctly. Usually pushing jump and shoot almost the same time (but holding jump) does the job.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:52 pm 


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So you can actually be directly against a wall and facing it and do vertical jumps out, you just a strict timing window to fire as soon as each jump starts or the bubble pops? I've never gotten it to work in the original arcade/Neo ver. It still sounds more fiddly than the NES version's much more forgiving window for point blank wall climb jumping, since the timing would get even harder when in midair and trying to jumping off the bubble you just made onto another fresh bubble. I'm sure I'm not the only one who prefers the much more forgiving timing window for wall climbing bubble jumping.

Apparently there's a number of people who got stumped doing the relatively simple wallclimb on level 72 (at least one Q&A on GameFAQs, at least 3 video guides), and all that takes is turning around so your back is against the wall, you have enough space to avoid popping the bubbles as you jump - I suspect a number of these people are used to NES version mechanics and didn't think to try just getting away from the wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15pKntDl-rs
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:15 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I'm sure I'm not the only one who prefers the much more forgiving timing window for wall climbing bubble jumping.

I never said it wasn't an improvement. I just said every other aspect of the NES game is worse. :)


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:21 pm 


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Fair enough! The flickery nonsense due to the NES hardware when a lot of sprites are onscreen is pretty obnoxious for sure. I'll give point-blank wall jumping a try again on the arcade version of Bubble Bobble. It could be this is one area where Neo is even worse than arcade as I could not get point-blank jumping to work ever on Neo. Or maybe it works in Neo and my timing sucks.

Did you ever go back to Moo Mesa and discover how fun it is? I remember you had it pegged as a regret purchase at one point (and that's understandable, given some stages are way easier when you realize there's a full invulnerability dodge you can use).
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:30 pm 


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I didn't. But coincidentally I actually played it last Saturday as it's appeared in the local arcade here. I couldn't remember the tip you gave me though - I thought it had something to do with invincibility while dashing, but dashing anywhere consistently just got me killed. I died a lot and didn't understand why, much like last time I tried it >_>


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:37 pm 


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The dash itself has no invulnerability and is generally not super useful for offense compared to simply shooting enemies. The trick is when you dash, you can cancel the dash immediately or at any point in the dash, and when you cancel the dash you do that rolling animation same as if you hit and bounced off something. It's that spinning in the air animation that has full invulnerability. It's not the dash itself you care about, it's the rolling jump you get from either hitting solid objects or from cancelling the dash that you want to use to dodge.

So to dodge attacks, dash and quickly press in the opposite direction of the dash to immediately cancel it and do the invulnerable rolling jump. You can control where you land during the dash cancel by holding left or right on the stick.

During a boss fight for instance, if you want to move past the boss to the other side of the screen, dash away from the boss and cancel the dash, holding in the direction of the other side of the screen.

The rolling jump animation you get from dash cancelling is fully invulnerable against attacks, but also destroys enemy projectiles, so it's possible to use it to block shots for another player when playing co-op by doing a short dash cancel (dash left, cancel right, hold left as soon as you start spinning to land close to where you cancelled).
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:18 pm 


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Ah, so that was it!
Sounds super awkward, but I'll try playing around with it :)


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:55 pm 


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It becomes natural once you get in the habit of it! Admittedly it's a lot easier if you have a third button wired up to press Shoot + Jump at the same time (which is definitely doable when playing PCB by adjusting wiring on button 3), but it's not too difficult to do by manually pressing Shoot+Jump to dash.

Also I just tried it, none of the arcade versions (Bubble Bobble, Bubble Bobble II, Bubble Memories: Bubble Bobble III) allow point blank against a wall bubble jumping. The bubbles pop immediately if you are facing a wall when you jump. You have to be slightly away from the wall for the bubbles not to pop immediately. I do enjoy the games, put a few credits in and had fun, just not as much as I suspect I would if they allowed pointblank jumping like the NES version does.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:17 am 


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Vanguard wrote:
ED-057 wrote:
Rockmen R2!


How is it?

On the surface, it's just like an NES Megaman, even has a password feature (a bit silly but easily handled with a CTRL+printscreen).

Roll-chan seems to be a little more responsive, as if some of the recharge/recovery frames have been removed. For instance, she jumps higher, but I'd say it takes the same amount of time or less. Making a less-than-full-height jump is tricky. And she has a charge shot, but after firing it she can fire the pea shooter again immediately without waiting for the buster sprite to disappear or whatever. (The downside is that I'm more prone to sliding/jumping by accident when I meant to jump/slide.)

In addition, enemy bullets appear to be a bit slower. There can be a series of bullets coming at you and sometimes you are quick enough to jump over each one individually like hurtles.

Bosses/levels have some design effort behind them. There was a boss in Wily's fort which wiped the floor with me multiple times until I finally saw the light.

There is also a hard difficulty, which I haven't had a chance to play much yet, and it gives the bosses different attacks and IIRC changes the level layout.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:14 am 


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Picked up The Messenger after having it on my radar for a while following Stevens glowing praise.

Love it. It's been fairly easy so far, but the dialogue and gameplay is a lot of fun. Probably my favorite recent release since Figh'N Rage.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:04 am 


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Still playing Bleed 2.

This game is an absolute masterpiece.

My only complaint is the length, and even then it has a random mission generator with assets from the first game added.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:19 am 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
Still playing Bleed 2.

This game is an absolute masterpiece.

My only complaint is the length, and even then it has a random mission generator with assets from the first game added.


May have to give the first another go, kind of enjoyed it but found the controls a little unwieldy and just never quite managed to click with it. Keep hearing good things about them on here though, and I think the second is still on sale on Switch.

I'm in the last third of my Yakuza 0 NG+. Didn't manage to really get into any of the business stuff last time as it all seemed a bit superfluous, and while that hasn't changed, I've also found it horribly addictive so the point I sank in two hours last night. The Real Estate is still a bit dour though.

Finish this up, then it'll be on to either Kiwami 2 or Judge Eyes. I'd rather continue the Yakuza story, but the unconverted racer in JE's arcade is pushing me in that direction.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:11 pm 


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Marc wrote:
Mischief Maker wrote:
Still playing Bleed 2.

This game is an absolute masterpiece.

My only complaint is the length, and even then it has a random mission generator with assets from the first game added.


May have to give the first another go, kind of enjoyed it but found the controls a little unwieldy and just never quite managed to click with it. Keep hearing good things about them on here though, and I think the second is still on sale on Switch.


Well that might be the problem, actually. I'm playing on the PC with keyboard/mouseaim, for which the controls are perfect. I'm not sure how it'd control with a pad, but I imagine it wouldn't be very good, particularly the bullet-reflecting.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:34 pm 


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I played Bleed 2 on Switch and controls are not that bad. Quite responsive, get used to jumping on ZR.
Aiming may be difficult though. It seems the hardest part of it is that both stick on the switch are not at the same level on the JoyCons (and I do suck at twin stick anyway). Maybe the ProController would feel better. Reflecting is fairly easy, and the game is awesome.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:45 pm 


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Still hacking away at Tokyo Mirage Sessions:

- Turns out you do get a way to re-learn skills you've discarded eventually; you might have to grind a little, but it's not too bad a balance between making the best choice in the moment and some flexibility to tweak later on.

- While a lot of gamers/critics like to praise "choices that matter", this game (and other Atlus stuff IIRC) give you frequent choices that don't matter, and I actually enjoy that: you can choose the response you want the character to give or the action you'd like to see without worrying that you might screw yourself out of a particular story path or bonus weapon or something, which, ironically enough, makes those choices more real and engaging than "do I want the 'good guy meter' or 'bad guy meter' to go up to max out my stats?" I wish more games took this approach.

- I've stuck with Hard difficulty so far, but find myself occasionally tempted to switch back to Normal; Hard makes "regular" battles more interesting, but as I mentioned earlier major enemies can frequently wipe you out in one or two rounds if you haven't specifically prepared for them...which you really can't do without getting whomped by them first, so the game is only "harder" in the sense that you have to level grind and/or repeat content more often.

- The more I see it, the more I like the oddball focus on the Japanese entertainment industry - it hasn't gotten into really heavy territory, at least so far, but it does provide a perspective on certain aspects that aren't usually at the fore without taking itself overly seriously. The localizers also included plenty of minor touches (on the menu screen Equipment is "Wardrobe", Party Change is "Casting", etc.) to sell the theme, which I always appreciate.
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