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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:05 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
r definitely a marked improvement over the first, though not enough that I'm failing to stop wondering where the near-unanimous praise for the thing came from, it feels to me like a "more deserving" cult hit than the original, but still very much a cult hit.


I'm also feeling the Automata meh. It's a good game, no doubt about it, but I think it's just another case of me having unrealistically high expectations due to hype. The STG-inspired bits are neat but it's just not holding my interest for extended sessions. Also the story isn't striking me as that original but maybe that's just because I haven't gotten to the (what I'm guessing are) big twists at the end.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:18 pm 


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I feel the same. I loved Nier so much that Automata had a really hard time living up to the hype. In general though I just found the game kinda unremarkable.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:23 pm 


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How does the game play hold up in Nier? I heard it was janky but with a killer story (the opposite of my experience with Automata: good gameplay, underwhelming story.)


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:40 pm 


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Yeah, janky but enjoyable, it's a bit of a B-game.
Automata is definitely a lot more polished and streamlined, but honestly I don't really think Nier suffers from its more primitive combat.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:11 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I don't really think Nier suffers from its more primitive combat.

I'd personally disagree on that one - and add that the combat is far from Nier's only major flaw - but I've already made several fairly recent posts on that stuff in here, so no need to go on at length. :)
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:18 am 


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Wizard of Legend - Was in a search for some co-op local gaming options for PC. Unlike Enter the Gungeon, which is a decent room-to-room top down arena style action game (but that forces the second player to play one specific character), Wizard of Legend has fundamentally more unique moves that you can setup prior to entering the dungeon, which both characters capable of being customized, meaning your character build feels much more dynamic from run to run. You setup 4 initial spells to start each run (a melee, a dash, a power spell and a signature spell). The problem is Wizard of Legend is more beat 'em up than arena shmup - the characters take up a lot of screen real-estate and rooms feel cramped. Its fundamentals are also broken in a lot of ways; there's not knock-down on skills akin to a beat 'em up, so spamming your melee skill can be very effective on basic enemies if you corner them. However, if your range is too close or if you get surrounded, crowd control is extremely difficult as you have no knockdown on attacks - enemies recover incredibly fast from stagger, thus making spells that control enemies via freezing (or the charm spell) rather invaluable. Enemies recover blazingly fast from stagger to the point that if you are beside an enemy after using a spell you pretty much have to dash away immediately or risk taking a hit, especially against enemies with near instant attacks. Because this functions more like a beat 'em up, you can't move while attacking, you have to commit to the attacks, so positioning is quite important.

Dodging is kind of awful in this though - there's tons of relics that mess with movement speed, but after a certain distance you break into a faster run. If you're using the faster run activation relic which is normally helpful, it can be very disorienting if you are moving to evade an attack and suddenly hit the run faster speed. Or if you're moving around to wait for an attack opening and you start running, the run adds a recovery delay if you stop moving (unless you cancel the run with an attack). You have an evasive dash, but unless you're in a boss room, the dash can be a major liability. Unlike Monolith, the current king of randomized arena shmups, the dash is an important necessity rather than a convenience, but there are a ridiculous number of bottomless pits everywhere which means a frequent source of damage will be attempting to dash and falling into a hole in the process. There's also a lot of attacks later on that can take up tons of space, so either you have a spell combo ready to speedkill and stagger enemies, or you prepare to try and dodge in a relatively limited space (and try to avoid being knocked into a pit by an attack).

Your powerful spells also run on cooldown timers - you have to manage those cooldowns and dodge around in between them, or rely on your short-ranged basic melee that has no cooldown timer. The cooldowns can be tricky to manage though - expecting to have an attack ready but not having it prepped can really be a liability especially in such cramped fighting conditions where often the doors slam shut when you enter rooms.

Boss fights are extremely fun though - learning their patterns and dealing with them is a lot of fun and the boss rooms are open and don't have nonsense like pits that seriously hinder your evasive options.

I like beat 'em ups and I like a lot of the ideas Wizard of Legend has, but its execution leaves a lot to be desired. It's really frustrating that it feels so difficult for all the wrong reasons.

Gungeon by comparison has much bigger view port (the vertical view range is especially small in Wizard of Legend) and much more effective ranged options, and Monolith feels much better in general, where your small hitbox and professional shmup dodging design ensures things are always difficult but fair. Weapon choice in Monolith is also much more interesting and meaningful than in Gungeon where a lot of the weapons feel very same-y in terms of function.

edit: I think I know why I am so disappointed by Wizard of Legend. I have played something like it except vastly better. The MMO game Lunia is a top down action MMO RPG with air juggles, cooldown on skills, and much better thought out pacing and combat than Wizard of Legend has. Wizard of Legend's map layout, dodging, enemy attack pacing all feel sloppy by comparison.

I also ran into an undodgeable attack against Freya the Ice Queen, who has a giant laser beam attack that fires forward, then splits into two beams that sweep fullscreen around 270 degrees. You're supposed to be close enough to dash behind her when she does it, but she moves around randomly and has a sword attack that doesn't appear to be baitable - I've had her sail past me in the middle of the screen. If she uses the laser beam sweep when she's against a wall, it is effectively undodgeable unless you happen to have the relic that makes your dash invulnerable, or are using the high level chaos-element dash Arcana that does a portal dash, akin to Monolith's Blink, thus making it the only dash worth a damn in the game.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:31 am 


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Wow, Octopath Traveller's post-game "dungeon" is probably the worst pile of bullshit I have ever seen in any JRPG ever!

After spending ages finishing off every sidequest, grinding all my unused characters up to nearly level 70, and making sure I had all the best gear in the game, I went into the game's final area.
For some stupid reason you can neither save your game nor return to the outside once you enter here, but instead of taking you straight to the TLB, you first have to plow through 8 other super easy but relatively long boss battles, and THEN you get to fight what I assume to be just its first form.
You have to pick two teams, using all the characters, which I had already heard. So I decide to start out using the less powerful team, as I'm assuming that start of the fight will be easier.

Then after having spent ages on this form alone, it suddenly decides to start swiping my characters off the battlefield entirely, making the two remaining ones completely unable to handle the fight, and eventually wiping. That's like three hours spent in this post-game area (with no saving) alone, completely wasted. Do I feel like going back there, giving it a new attempt, knowing that I'll probably just throw another three hours down the drain when the same thing happens again? Who the fuck designs a game like this?

And all in all I've spent over 80 hours with the game, leading up to getting to this place, and now I kinda feel like it's a waste. I should have just called it quits after the 8 main paths finished, and moved on to something else.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:38 am 


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Huehuehuehuehuehue.

I laugh as someone who has been there. I got crunched the first time and had to re-assess and go for the best strategy I could think of. But yeah the no save aspect is bullshit and time-wastey. I got pretty upset.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:49 am 


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scrilla4rella wrote:
Also the story isn't striking me as that original but maybe that's just because I haven't gotten to the (what I'm guessing are) big twists at the end.


It's a post-apocalyptic story that gives us absolutely no immediate reason to care that an apocalypse has taken place.

Most good stories in that vein would strive to forge some sort of emotional connection to the world that was or the lives that were lost. Instead, Automata opens up with an army of boring, stoic assholes fighting a war with no stakes against a faceless enemy we don't care about over the death of humans that we never see in a world that's no less pretty or convenient for being ostensibly fucked.

All that would probably be pardonable mind you if the protagonists weren't such boring shitheads. That one was really the finishing straw for me. 2B and 9S are horrible characters.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:08 am 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
scrilla4rella wrote:
Also the story isn't striking me as that original but maybe that's just because I haven't gotten to the (what I'm guessing are) big twists at the end.


It's a post-apocalyptic story that gives us absolutely no immediate reason to care that an apocalypse has taken place.

Most good stories in that vein would strive to forge some sort of emotional connection to the world that was or the lives that were lost. Instead, Automata opens up with an army of boring, stoic assholes fighting a war with no stakes against a faceless enemy we don't care about over the death of humans that we never see in a world that's no less pretty or convenient for being ostensibly fucked.

All that would probably be pardonable mind you if the protagonists weren't such boring shitheads. That one was really the finishing straw for me. 2B and 9S are horrible characters.


2B, or not 2B? That is the question.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:01 am 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
It's a post-apocalyptic story that gives us absolutely no immediate reason to care that an apocalypse has taken place.

Most good stories in that vein would strive to forge some sort of emotional connection to the world that was or the lives that were lost. Instead, Automata opens up with an army of boring, stoic assholes fighting a war with no stakes against a faceless enemy we don't care about over the death of humans that we never see in a world that's no less pretty or convenient for being ostensibly fucked.

All that would probably be pardonable mind you if the protagonists weren't such boring shitheads. That one was really the finishing straw for me. 2B and 9S are horrible characters.


Compare Nier which opens up with a dad wanting to protect his daughter, and a bit of a mystery about what happens between the intro chapter and the main game.
It's simple, to the point and relatable. Daddy Nier is a great main character.

This contrast is the biggest reason, Automata was a bit of a letdown to me.

I also just enjoyed the almost comical way everything just goes to shit in Nier. All the way down to a random sidequest about a man who can't find his dog. You just know you're gonna find it dead somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:34 pm 


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Just about finished up with my 2nd play through of Wasteland 2. Almost at the point of too much of a good thing, but not quite.

I will play it again before 3 comes out, but I think I am setting my sights on SNK's 40th upon release.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:22 am 


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Sumez wrote:
All the way down to a random sidequest about a man who can't find his dog. You just know you're gonna find it dead somewhere.

As with so many of us, it would appear that Yoko Taro's journey began with the trauma he experienced after being assigned Old Yeller in grade school.

Started the third playthrough of Automata yesterday; if nothing else it appears that subsequent runs of this one change things up more substantially than the original did. As for the mains being less compelling than the OG protagonist, to a degree I can concur (which is kind of weird considering that the latter's entire shtick is basically "I have one single motivation and only know one barbaric way to pursue it"), but at least based on what I've seen so far it could also be argued that that's kind of the point.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:25 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
at least based on what I've seen so far it could also be argued that that's kind of the point.


Yeah, I've heard that one before.

"It's supposed to leave you totally detached towards everything and everyone! It's supposed to be boring!"

All I can say to that is...congrats on how far you've crawled up your own asshole, Taro.

Must've been hard doing it with that mask on.
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Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:31 pm 


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Grabbed SNK's 40th for uh..$40.

Thoughts so far -

The entire package is really solid. The Museum/Soundtracks are a nice addition.

EDIT - Including the home ports was a baller move too.

Ikari Warriors, Victory Road, and Guerrilla War have all aged really well and are still as fun as I remember.

Time Soldiers not so much. I always thought it the weakest of the bunch even as a kid.

POW has not aged well at all. Super fun when I was 12, but damn that game is shallow.

Ikari III is far better than I remember it being. Based on the genre and setting I feel it is what POW should have been. Not that you have any more moves than you do in POW, but it plays far superior. Just way more solid all around. Looking forward to putting more time into it.

PsychoSolider (played it in college) is still a lot of fun.

World Wars is a fun little shooter that I never played before.

Search and Rescue also seems pretty good. Need a bit more time (only played the first level) with it though. Hope the levels are as varied as they are in Alien Syndrome.

Crystalis I played as a kid and loved. I may or may not give it another whirl at some point.

In trying to find differences between regions (Ikari and Victory Road) I believe the Japanese version of Ikari to be (upon first glance) a bit easier than the domestic release. There is a tank for you shortly after you start in the import but you have to travel much further for your first tank in the domestic. That might be the only thing, but I thought it was worth noting. Haven't found any in VR/Dogo yet other than the voice.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:51 am 


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I can't figure out La-Mulana

On one hand it's very basic and feels like nothing out of the ordinary, and on the other hand I sit every day at work anxious to get home and trying to figure out if I can make any progress anywhere. It's kind of like if mid-90s FromSoftware had made a 2D metroidvania.

The boss fights however, are absolutely awful. They seem to check all the boxes for stuff you should never do.
Nearly all of them are based around waiting for a specific pattern that leaves them vulnerable, and the rest of the time is just dodging. This kind of makes sense considering the game's stiff, mechanical controls. However, the RNG that controls this pattern is just absolutely bullshit. You might get three "good" patterns in a row, or it'll just attack you with the worst patterns forever. Patterns are also super RNG infused, and not in the good Ghouls'n'Ghosts kinda way.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:36 am 


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"Thou art tiny, like a doll."
:mrgreen:

Yesss, I'd like to hear more of your adventures! Remake or original?
One of the puzzles absolutely broke my brain and I hate it, but yes.. all good.

The annoying thing is how, if memory serves correct, you get sweet fuck all reward for killing the first boss. May as well not bother until much later in the game.

I miss the engrish trailer, with such corkers as "Closing up the road to adventure is..... plenty of ordeals."
And promising "Numbers of enemies" !!
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:58 am 


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Remake. "EX" version to be precise. It changed some things from the original remake, but looking into what would be spoiling for sure, so I didn't.

Been doing fine without any guides so far, but judging from other people's experiences with the game, going through the entire thing like that is almost insurmountable.

The first boss has been the least offensive so far. Also, so far, none of the bosses have given me any reward for killing them. One of them did provide access to a (partly) new area, but I don't think I'm able to do anything there yet. I think a sensible approach would be just just wait with all of them until you are far enough to be more powered up. But without knowing what's coming up, I can't really afford to take that chance.

The engrish manual is really adorable.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 pm 


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Randomly discovered what the mirror I found earlier apparently does... suddenly opened up a lot of new areas! And even more dead ends.

Had to look up how to beat the Anubis miniboss. Damn that was super obscure. Would probably have ended up with that solution eventually through random scouring, but I'm glad I looked it up...
Got the feather and the double jump. And of course I can't remember a single of the areas where I had trouble reaching something earlier on.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:37 am 


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Destiny 2. I think I'm beyond the point of no return because I'm starting to really enjoy the little lore books they've been adding in over the last few seasons.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:14 am 


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Sumez wrote:
Randomly discovered what the mirror I found earlier apparently does... suddenly opened up a lot of new areas! And even more dead ends.


Hahahah. That fucking sums up the whole game tbh.

I remember several sessions over a succession of days not yielding any progress at all. just re-wandering areas i've seen before reading tablets again and again, and not getting the answer.
It's still a point of pride that I only had to look up the answers/ ask Shepardus 2-3 times.
... maybe 3-4
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:16 pm 


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is there any great adventure games similar to Indiana Jones N64?
i mean lots of deadly traps and solving puzzles..stuff like that

and no not like uncharted and tomb raider reboots


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:32 pm 


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... Try La Mulana ^^

We're discussing it like right now. It's the closest thing to an Indiana Jones in 2D form you'll ever get.
Disclaimer: I haven't watched a single indiana jones.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:03 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
... Try La Mulana ^^

We're discussing it like right now. It's the closest thing to an Indiana Jones in 2D form you'll ever get.
Disclaimer: I haven't watched a single indiana jones.


u need to watch the trilogy movies..such a great adventure

i already played La Mulana and sequel too..i need 3D adventure
i only got tomb raider the last revelation but need something similar to indiana jones N64 game


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:14 pm 



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Fatal Fury Special on my Neo Geo MVS. It's the best fighter on the Neo Geo by miles IMO. I don't remember it being so hard when I was a kid though. I think the AES cart is easier.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:00 pm 


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Got addicted to Ikari Warriors from the Arcade Archives releases. Made it to the final stretch a few times, got #2 spot on the global score attack leaderboard.

I keep putting off playing new PS4 games because I keep getting hooked on these old arcade games (Moon Patrol, Elevator Action, Rygar, Double Dragon, etc).
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:03 am 


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kaicooper wrote:
i only got tomb raider the last revelation but need something similar to indiana jones N64 game


Since you only explicitly ruled out the TR Reboots - did you try Anniversary? It's the last old-school style Tomb Raider and it's genuinely great. I hadn't given the series a glance for over a decade and that sucked me in for weeks.

I have only hazy memories of the Legacy of Rain: Soul Reaver games but I think they shared some similarities with the Tomb Raider games (3D adventure with puzzles etc) but the theme was of course not Indiana Jones-like.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:17 am 


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Funny you should mention Soul Reaver. It was one of my favorite PS1 games during its time, and I revisited it a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately, it hasn't aged well. The combat is tedious, and the controls are very sluggish. Maybe I'm just spoiled by analog controllers, but to me, this game plays like crap. Shame, because the writing, dialogue and voice acting are all superb. I've never played the sequels, but I've got 'em in my PS2 library, so I'll check out Soul Reaver 2 sometime after I'm done playing through SiN.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:43 am 


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The Taira clan is avenged and Kagekiyo can sleep in peace again. Just 1ccleared Genpei ToumaDen, the original arcade version, after a specially inspired run (game sound off, J.A. Caesar's wafu-prog Kokkyou Junreika playing). I know, since I first posted with a PC Engine cover, I guess it can be misleading, but I was actually trying the arcade version.

Know your route, protect the sword power as much as possible and never jump from a falling plataform are the general rules for Genpei. One wrong jump and you can miss a important item, getting teleported to Jigoku and never being able to go back to that place. Severe punishment, but it is a way to plan an alternative path to get that item (You're supposed to get 3 to defeat Yoritomo). Can't say there are puzzles, but a lot sefcrets. With time, everything that may look weird start to make sense by the game's own logic. Even after countless frustrations, I still wanted to try more runs right after the clear, so there's that.
Spoiler: show
There is not a proper final boss. Basically, you survive Yoritomo or not depending on the itens you have. But it's okay, already a challenge itself to gather those.

This game had a sequel and a boardgame (both physical and for the Famicon). I was not surprised to find out that it's much more relevant in Japan and that Suda 51 is found of the game, praising the theme and mistery. "演出や完成度を含めて、とにかく美しく、威風堂々した佇まいには圧倒されます" -From the setting to the details, the majestic and beautifully done shape (of the game) is overwhelming. Something like that. Well, if Suda Goichi were to make a arcade game in 1986, maybe it would look a bit like Genpei ToumaDen.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:35 pm 


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kaicooper wrote:
is there any great adventure games similar to Indiana Jones N64?
i mean lots of deadly traps and solving puzzles..stuff like that

Infernal Machine is a really amazing action adventure that got way too little attention.
Only played it on PC though. I wish I could recommend something, but there really isn't much like it.


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