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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:31 am 


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LBW is the only game I've done it in. It always felt like a bit of an arbitrary challenge to me, and takes away the exploration aspect of finding heart pieces. But honestly, in that game it came very naturally to me, and I should probably try doing it in more games. Ocarina of Time could be really interesting for sure!


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:35 pm 


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Question farm -

I am seriously considering Wasteland 2. Anyone here spend any time with it?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:44 pm 


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Right now I'm playing Suikoden (PS1). It's a simplistic but innovative (for the time) game, but I feel a lot about it hasn't aged too well. It's great strength is its world-building, but presentation and menu navigation wise — not so much. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:18 am 


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RE: Zelda 1

It's not quite my thing, but I like it a lot. And it's one of those games that has a very unique feel - owing to its era and technical limitations - that's never quite been replicated since. It's "open world" I guess, and very free, but at the same time has a kind of arcadey punchiness where every screen has something going on. It's cryptic and there's a tangible sense of mystique to its world and gameplay, but it tells you just enough to have fun immediately. It's not the only game that could be described this way but I think nothing else has quite the same flow or pace or mystery (in a fun way) that Zelda 1 has.

I don't remember having much issues with bombs in the overworld (on first quest): IIRC there's only like 2-3 important things (dungeon entrances and shit) you need to bomb for in the overworld, and I think they're hinted at by hermits. That might also be knowstalgia talking, but the game also existed at a time where you were expected to trade hints on the school yard etc. etc. or phone nintendo hotline for tips. It's kind of funny to think of a time when you couldn't just instantly know everything about a game by googling it. Sharing secrets and tips was a good thing and not a spoiler because we weren't all cyber-omniscient at the time.

Anyway, the main thing that holds it back for me (in terms of being something I regularly replay) is the lack of diagonal movement. Yes, I know the game's combat is balanced/designed around it, but it simply feels ungodly wrong for me in this perspective and I don't like the way it feels at all.

Still, it's a pretty cool game.

WelshMegalodon wrote:
Considering that Elite, Mercenary, and the Ultima series were inviting PC gamers to explore vast, nonlinear worlds years before Zelda, I wouldn't say open-world gaming wasn't a "thing" back then.


Perhaps Zelda 1's real innovation, in that case, was actually being fun ^_~
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:08 pm 


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I recently replayed Wasteland under ironman/permadeath rules. Wasteland, for anyone unfamiliar, is basically Fallout Zero. Fallout might have been called Wasteland 2 had EA not owned the rights to the name. Anyway, it's a top-down turn-based WRPG where you play as a team of Desert Rangers on a vague mission to right wrongs in the post-apocalyptic wasteland.

You start out by creating a party of up for four characters. Later you can recruit NPCs to get your party's size up to seven. Anyway, your characters have a large list of stats and a huge list skills available, and it's pretty unclear which are important and which aren't. I still don't know how important strength, agility, luck, etc. are to your success in combat, but the most important stat by far is IQ. Raising your IQ unlocks new skills your character can learn, and every point of IQ your character gains also gives you a skill point which can be used to learn or improve skills. You can invest multiple skill points into the same skill, but skills can also be increased by using them and this is generally a better idea than blowing your finite skill points.

For some character building advice, you'll definitely want one member of your team to specialize in the climb, picklock, and bomb disarm skills. Medic is very important because without it, characters who are seriously wounded will get worse and worse until they permanently die. There are NPC doctors who can treat injured characters but you don't want to count on them being nearby, so learn medic. The doctor skill is a strictly superior version of the medic skill, though it requires a higher IQ to learn. Eventually it's a good idea for every character to know medic or doctor. Swim is generally not important, though there's one situation I should mention. In the sewers beneath Las Vegas, being swept up by the current will result in your characters contracting the sewer rot disease which prevents health from regenerating. This can easily end your game, and since the game autosaves frequently, it could possibly end your entire playthrough. Bring ropes with you and use them before you enter the water - it's both cheaper and more effective than the swim skill. Skills I wouldn't bother learning on any character include knife fighting, clip pistol, pugilism, rifle, knife throwing, gamble, confidence, sleight of hand, forgery, bureaucracy, and metallurgy.

For combat skills, put one or two points into brawling, assault rifles, and energy weapons on every character. Brawling is the skill used for every melee weapon that matters (buy clubs or axes in quartz right off the bat, upgrade to chainsaws and proton axes later). Assault rifles are the best weapons that can be bought in stores and energy weapons are the best weapons in the game. Assault rifles are still worthwhile after energy weapons are available because energy weapon ammunition is finite. I wouldn't bother with other combat skills and I'd recommend selling your starting pistols for basic supplies instead of using them.

Most of the game's world can be explored freely right off the bat, provided you can avoid being killed. Much like its successor, Wasteland is full of optional content and situations with more than one solution. There are lots of times when having the right item or skill can avoid a fight or earn a better outcome, and there are many NPCs whom you're free to help, harm, or ignore. You aren't really told this, but the eventual goal of the game is to find out where the killer robots in Las Vegas are coming from and destroy them. The great majority of the game's world has nothing to do with this goal other than providing a source of items and experience that will help you survive Vegas and the later areas. One of my favorite things about the game's world is that nearly every door in the game can be bypassed with a crowbar, the picklock skill, or failing that, explosives. Getting access to somewhere you're not "supposed" to be is always a good feeling in games like this.

Combat is mostly a damage race. When one of your character's health reaches zero, they're knocked unconscious. Unconscious characters can't be harmed and will eventually regain consciousness. If your entire team is knocked unconscious, the enemies will politely wait until at least one of your wakes up. If an attack takes a character's hp far enough below zero, they will be seriously wounded or worse and will die without medical attention. You lose the game when all characters are seriously wounded or worse (or are unconscious with a condition that prevents them from healing, like radiation poisoning or sewer rot). Generally you should fight in melee when you can get away with it, which you can against the great majority of enemies. Melee attacks become quite powerful as your brawling skill increases, and kills made in melee award double experience. All experience for a kill goes to the character who lands the final hit on an enemy, so make sure every member of your team has at least basic offensive abilities. Good equipment is generally more important in combat than strong characters - a total rookie with an assault rifle, chainsaw, and kevlar suit will have no trouble with any pre-Vegas enemies.

I played Wasteland while growing up and I never tried Fallout until a few years ago. At the time I considered Wasteland to be by far the better of the two, but now I think they share most of the same problems (I still prefer Wasteland fwiw). Both games have the same "problem" where once you know how to get good items, you can quickly trivialize most of the game. Combat in both games is pretty shallow and random, though I'd say Wasteland is preferable there for its stronger elements of resource management and multiple characters mitigate the randomness. Fallout is overall better in terms of WRPG choices and consequences and in terms of making different locations interesting and worthwhile (Wasteland has a huge number of completely pointless buildings you can enter, probably 80% of the buildings in Quartz and 90% of the buildings in Vegas are like that). Which game is better comes down to what you're looking for.

Wasteland isn't a must-play but it's one of the better WRPGs out there.

drauch wrote:
My controversial Zeldo stance is that I only really care about the first one, because it's the only one that feels like a classic adventure to me and lacks the cutesy vibe over the later ones. You're just totally alone in this shit world and everything hates you, as opposed to the constant returns to villages and happy little folks willing to help. Your only allies are enigmatic old bags living in caves, the dungeons are dark and creepy, and the entire hostile world is a mystery. You really lose that in the others. Sure, I like 'em, but the first stands out for this grumpy bastard.


Yeah, that's why Zelda 1 owns. As an action game it's only passable but I love the omnipresent sense of loneliness and danger. Everything is so hostile and mysterious and every item you uncover is a godsend. Starting with Zelda 3, the items are just a bunch of toys to play with. In Zelda 1 finding a new item just might make the difference you need to stay alive.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:29 pm 


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Thanks for taking the time to write that up Vanguard. Appreciate it.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:43 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to write that up Vanguard. Appreciate it.

Sure thing, but just to be clear, it was Wasteland 1 and it coming shortly after your request was a total coincidence. I don't know anything about Wasteland 2.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:16 pm 


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Haha. I was sort of wondering about that.

I tried 1 around the time they Kickstarted 2. Liked it, but didn't stick with it.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:28 pm 


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Killer, learned a lot there. I've been meaning to get serious about Wasteland and do a real playthrough instead of just immediately getting murdered, so this helps!
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:07 pm 


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Glad that was helpful! Wasn't sure if I was wasting my time doing a big write-up on a game so far from this forum's raison d'etre.

Wasteland's copy protection system is that much of the game's text is in the manual. Anyone interested in playing should keep this pdf around. I remember reading through that as a child and thinking that the martian subplot paragraphs were real. Was a bit disappointed by that when I got the real ending.

One important thing to be aware of is that dropping items destroys them permanently and the game won't stop you from throwing away vital key items. Definitely hold on to electronics like servo motors and power converters. Also keep any keys you find (exception: the hotel room keys in quartz only open the doors you'd expect them to open).

Here's some more tips to help get a run off the ground:

The first thing I like to do is head west to quartz and visit the shop in the southeast corner. Sell your unimportant items (ropes are useful in a number of places, canteens protect you from heat damage in the desert, keep one crowbar around) and buy a club for each character and equip that. Using a melee weapon will train your brawling skill and it's plenty good enough for early game enemies. From what I've read clubs are exactly as good as any other early game weapon and they're very cheap. Anyway, next go to rail nomads a little to the east. You can pass through the guardian's citadel as a shortcut to get there, but hug the south edge of the map. The citadel is the second most dangerous area in the game and while it has no random encounters, the static enemies a bit to the north will absolutely murder you. Once you reach the rail nomads, buy an engine from the trader. It costs $500 but if I remember right, you can get about that much by selling your starting pistols and ammo. Next head back south to highpool near where you started. There's a broken machine in one of the southern houses. I think you first have to examine it with either perception or electronics (I forgot to mention in the write-up, but give someone a point in electronics). Anyway use the engine on the broken machine and you'll fix it and the townspeople will thank you with some nice loot, including a set of four leather jackets. Armor is very very important in Wasteland and even a leather jacket helps a lot. The shop in quartz sells bulletproof jackets, the next tier of armor, and that's what you should set your sights on once you've got cash. If you want to explore most of the game on your own, this should be a good enough start.

From that point there are a few good places to visit. An excellent way to get a huge early advantage is to recruit Christina in Needles. Push e to execute an encounter with a neutral NPC, which allows you to attempt to hire (or kill) them). Christina's stats are nothing special but she comes with some superb equipment - an uzi that will shred early game enemies, a rad suit which has an armor class of 5 and protects against radiation poisoning, and a geiger counter that will help avoid radiation. I only used the four characters I made for my ironman run, but it's far more practical to take advantage of recruitable NPCs. Even if you don't want to use Christina, hire her so you can steal her stuff. The agricultural center to the west of the starting point isn't a bad place to train low level characters. You can get some decent experience and while it's possible to get killed by the boss here, xhe shouldn't be a serious problem. Just make sure to rest if you get hurt (press escape to skip turns. You can use the game's built in macro function to press escape a bunch of times with one keypress. Time passes faster on the world map). Also the game doesn't fully register the boss's death until you pick up all of his items, which is sort of a recurring quirk in Wasteland. When you kill someone important, pick up everything they dropped even if you don't really want it.

Once you've got some basic equipment and experience, go to the building in the far southwest of needles. There are some irradiated areas so either come at night when you can see the radiation or get a geiger counter. There are locked doors you can get in with the picklock skill and some you'll need to blow up (buy TNT for $50 in Quartz, might be for sale in Needles too). The pit ghoul at the end is pretty dangerous so be careful. He's melee only and if you brought Christina's uzi you can probably finish him before he lands a hit. Anyway, once you get past him, go to the building's final rooms where you'll find some outstanding weapons and armor. The temple of blood in the northwest corner of needles isn't a bad place to visit either. It's a bit dangerous but there's good loot, and it's also the first place you need to clear to solve the main quest.

At this point you should have a good chance of surviving in Darwin to the northeast. The town is surrounded by irradiated land so approach either at night or bring a geiger counter. There are a few interesting things there, but the most interesting is the black market, the best shop in the game. The town's bartender knows the password, if I remember right you need to buy a few drinks and then ask "password." If you get the password wrong twice the black market's guards will attack you. You can probably beat them at this point, but they are pretty tough. Darwin's random encounters are also very dangerous so I recommend going to the black market asap. Once inside you can buy chainsaws, assault rifles (the internet says the only difference between M1989A1 and AK-97 assault rifles is that the M1989A1's can hold more ammo), and kevlar suits. All of these are one step below endgame-worthy and the kevlar suits in particular are the best armor you'll see for a very long time. After you've bought that stuff, the black market guards will have no chance against you. Feel free to kill them - you'll still be able to shop.

From there you're well equipped to hit Las Vegas or go back and stomp the enemies and quests you skipped in Quartz and Needles. You could every try for the Guardian's Citadel if you wanted to, but if you do, don't try to fight Brother Goliath. He's melee only and doesn't move, but he's got high attack power and crazy defense. If you've got the cash to burn, you buy a bunch of assault rifle ammo and level up your skill quickly by firing at him full auto. He's also good for training brawling but I would recommend getting better armor than kevlar suits before you try that. I would not recommend training energy weapons this way, as there is a limited number of power packs in the game and you don't want to waste them.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:42 pm 


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I specifically bought one of those Interplay collections years ago to have that manual to check on :D . Anyone tried the GOG release? I thought I read awhile back that you could select pop-ups to read those when you encountered them. Also adds some ambient music if I recall. Not necessary, but it sounds pretty fitting when I watched some vids.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:30 am 


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I took the plunge and bought Wasteland 2.

It was pretty overwhelming at first. I'm used to playing games with two buttons and there is a lot to keep track of here.

I'll report back after a few more hours. This one is definitely outside my usual zone.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:33 pm 


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drauch wrote:
I specifically bought one of those Interplay collections years ago to have that manual to check on :D . Anyone tried the GOG release? I thought I read awhile back that you could select pop-ups to read those when you encountered them. Also adds some ambient music if I recall. Not necessary, but it sounds pretty fitting when I watched some vids.


The 10th anniversary collection right? That thing owns. I read The Lord of the Rings because of the LotR game in that collection. My favorite of the bunch is Dragon Wars.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:48 pm 


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The Resident Evil 2 REmake's Hardcore mode isn't f***ing around. It's an absolute nightmare.

I was a bit overconfident choosing to do a blind play on this setting but I wanted the classic ink ribbon system it offers. I reached an impasse at 20 hours logged & have to start over on Normal. For the first time probably ever I admit brutal, crushing defeat.

It's harder than 7's Madhouse by a long mile. You could easily waste all your ammo on a standard zombie. I ended up taking out two bosses with the knife. Once I reached the point that I was redoing the same sequence for an hour with no ink ribbon & dying to a horde of 1-hit killers my patience finally broke & I cursed at my TV. This mode is not for babies.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:19 pm 


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8BA wrote:
The Resident Evil 2 REmake's Hardcore mode isn't f***ing around. It's an absolute nightmare.

I was a bit overconfident choosing to do a blind play on this setting but I wanted the classic ink ribbon system it offers. I reached an impasse at 20 hours logged & have to start over on Normal. For the first time probably ever I admit brutal, crushing defeat.

It's harder than 7's Madhouse by a long mile. You could easily waste all your ammo on a standard zombie. I ended up taking out two bosses with the knife. Once I reached the point that I was redoing the same sequence for an hour with no ink ribbon & dying to a horde of 1-hit killers my patience finally broke & I cursed at my TV. This mode is not for babies.

Wow, holy shit. My wife & I have been going through the various paths on Standard Mode with basically all of our free time since we picked up an advance copy last week. What a game! We are definitely planning to tackle Hardcore mode eventually...sounds crazy!


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:24 pm 


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Yeah, I also started on Hardcore since I assumed it was just harder RE2 with ink ribbons - but Hardcore is vicious and I had to drop it and go through on Standard. To be fair, I think it'll be much more manageable once I have a route through the game and know where I should be killing and where I should be running.

The remake is really fantastic overall. Just barely runs right on my PC which is a relief.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:30 pm 


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A bit farther into Nier, a few additional thoughts:

- I rather like the presentation overall, but good gravy, someone on the art team liked the bloom effect way, WAY too much. I'm also not so sure about the Mortal Kombat blood splatter that inevitably shows up even if you're just getting kicked by a sheep.

- 3D Action Gameplay And No Lock On Make BM Hate The Camera 3D Action Gameplay And No Lock On Make BM Hate The Camera 3D Action Gameplay And No Lock On Make BM Hate The Camera 3D Action Gameplay And No Lock On Make BM Hate The Camera

- The game is quirky in a lot of ways, but the side quests almost seem like someone said "we gotta balance that distinctive weirdness out with a smorgasbord of the most generic and/or grindy fetch errands". I dunno, do they get more engaging later on, especially since they're pretty much the only way to earn money aside from grinding for/selling stuff?

- I think I've managed to successfully harvest a single flower so far - everything else is still a sprout every time I make sure to check back on it, but when I go off to do a story mission it's wilted and dead by the time I get back.

- I vaguely recall a minor internet kerfluffle where some reviewer had trouble with the first (required) fishing mission and trashed the game using that as the basis for his argument, and was raked over the coals for it - having experienced that part myself I can understand how it happened, since the instructions you're given are equal parts vague and misleading, to the point that I had to check online to see what I was doing wrong. I've immediately abandoned more than a few games for frustrating nonsense like that, but...

- ...I'm motivated to keep going mainly because I want to 1) Hear more buddy-movie insults traded between the protagonist and the talking book, especially since the VAs are pretty good, 2) See if the confusing unexplained stuff eventually starts making more sense, and 3) Finally be told how to play the game properly, since it's been drip-feeding me tutorials on even the most basic mechanics non-stop so far, and may continue for the entire duration for all I know. Hell, maybe there is a lock-on and they didn't bother to tell me just yet. :P I should note that I don't mind not being told everything at the outset - organically discovering certain things by yourself can be a lot of fun - but here it feels more than a little excessive IMO.

- I'm also more amused than I should be that the first thing you hear every single time the game boots up is one of the characters calling the other a dumbass. Games are art, people! :P

The game kind of feels like a too-ambitious indie effort - lots of ideas but neither the talent nor the resources to make them happen, so when reality finally set in a lot of stuff ended up left on the cutting room floor and bog-standard filler hastily took its place, but the original spark is still in there, though you have to squint to see it. Hope it keeps twinkling enough to keep me going...
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:50 pm 


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I just don't understand how Kainés ass is both big and flat at the same time.

Interested to hear more of your thoughts BM, I recently played it through one and a half times to get the second ending..

..gave up on the trophies though, I'm not one for RNG foraging ad infinitum
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:09 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
I just don't understand how Kainés ass is both big and flat at the same time.


- "Her body is cursed, weren't you paying attention?"

- "From spending too much time pressed right up against the camera."


Select the snarky response of your choice; just be aware it determines which ending you get. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:14 pm 


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Definitely the latter.

It spoils what are supposed to be touching moments when she's wearing nothing, call me old fashioned but..

Are you finding the game painfully easy yet? hah.
Yeah the farming is actually tied to your console's clock. I was trying to get a white moon flower. I gave that shit up.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:10 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Yeah the farming is actually tied to your console's clock. I was trying to get a white moon flower. I gave that shit up.

If that's seriously the way it works, screw it - I'm not altering my real-life schedule so I can play a game when it wants me to, what is this, a free-to-play phone game? Of course, that means for any quest that requires veggies or flowers I'll have to fork over my limited cash for them instead...seriously, who came up with some of the design decisions in this game?

Quote:
It spoils what are supposed to be touching moments when she's wearing nothing, call me old fashioned but..

I think I've encountered exactly one "serious" Kaine moment so far, the rest of the time the others are either cracking jokes about how ridiculous her outfit is or she's doing her usual over-the-top profanity-laced tirades, which is fine, if a game includes something silly but doesn't demand the player take it any more seriously than it does I can usually put up with it. Guess we'll see if it keeps up...

Quote:
Are you finding the game painfully easy yet?

If not for the lousy camera and somewhat awkward controls I probably would; last night I finished the boss of the desert temple, the first one I've had to try more than once, since it took a few failed attempts to figure out what was feasible against its magic patterns. I do appreciate the game adding a bit of "bullet hell" flavor to spice things up, but there's no friggin' way it's tuned tightly enough to actually allow you to tackle it head-on as opposed to find detours around it, which goes against whatever meager legit shmup instincts I have. :P
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:11 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Blinge wrote:
Yeah the farming is actually tied to your console's clock. I was trying to get a white moon flower. I gave that shit up.

If that's seriously the way it works, screw it - I'm not altering my real-life schedule so I can play a game when it wants me to, what is this, a free-to-play phone game? Of course, that means for any quest that requires veggies or flowers I'll have to fork over my limited cash for them instead...seriously, who came up with some of the design decisions in this game?

Ha, you ain't seen nothing yet.

I was trying to farm by altering the PS3's clock until I realised what I was doing with my life.

Quote:
If not for the lousy camera and somewhat awkward controls I probably would


ah right. Personally I don't mind always tweaking that right stick.

As for me, realised I've hit a wall in Etrian Odyssey II's endgame, my party simply sucks and doesn't put out enough damage to beat Golem, a superboss, and the gatekeeper of the postgame area.
Well, fuck.
It is annoying how the only way to beat these final areas is to have some fully optimized minmax party of the right class choices..
Basically look up how to build a team online from the get go, or be forced to start again at some point. Beating the main game with my organic party isn't even a consolation.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:03 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
I'm not altering my real-life schedule so I can play a game when it wants me to, what is this, a free-to-play phone game? Of course, that means for any quest that requires veggies or flowers I'll have to fork over my limited cash for them instead...seriously, who came up with some of the design decisions in this game?

Possibly derived from the Boktai/Lunar Knights series, this one (if I understood correctly).
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:26 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
As for me, realised I've hit a wall in Etrian Odyssey II's endgame, my party simply sucks and doesn't put out enough damage to beat Golem, a superboss, and the gatekeeper of the postgame area.
Well, fuck.
It is annoying how the only way to beat these final areas is to have some fully optimized minmax party of the right class choices..


It's definitely not that bad. The classes in 2 are pretty unbalanced, though, so I could see a group of landsknechts and survivalists hitting a wall. What's your team?


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:37 pm 


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Kneckt, Protector, Beast, Medic, Gunner

I can't damage Golem enough to beat his regen. Also I'm mad cuz bad.
It feels like he's a sign of things to come and all the other superbosses will be next to, if not impossible.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:50 am 


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New Super Mario U Deluxe. It's superb. I've not really played a 2D Mario since world (well, I have vague memories of trying, and failing, to get into NSMB on DS around ten years ago), so I'm loving it. I've seen it called Mario-by-numbers in a few reviews, I guess I can understand from the point of view of someone that's kept up with the series throughout the years, but a decent Mario game is still better than 95% of platformers out there IMO. I'm enjoying it anyways.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:41 am 


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All you guys playing RE2 , Capcom announced free update (ghost survivors) Feb 15th

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/resid ... 0-6464620/


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:53 pm 


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Wasteland 2

I'm the furthest thing from the strategy RPG guy around here, so I'll just stick with what I like and what I don't -

Playing on rookie.

Combat is fun. Random encounters are kind of in that sweet spot of just enough, but there are spots where they appear more frequently like around water if you decide you want to farm for a bit. RE's never overstay their welcome.

Water rationing is a neat touch.

I've walked into a few towns and expected to be out in a few minutes, but holy shit some of the towns are huge. Amazing attention to detail.

Sound is good, music gets the job done.

Love the printer. Lots of detail about where you are and who you're talking too. Which leads to my one complaint - even at the largest text setting it is a bit too small. Need to sit closer to the tv than I would if I were playing something else. There is a lot of reading in this game.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:27 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
*Looks around to make sure no one's watching*

Kneckt, Protector, Beast, Medic, Gunner

I can't damage Golem enough to beat his regen. Also I'm mad cuz bad.
It feels like he's a sign of things to come and all the other superbosses will be next to, if not impossible.


The only fundamental problem with your team is that it has no way to deal with enemy buffs, and both the ice drake and the golem can use buffs to jack up their defenses and regenerate their hp. The other postgame bosses aren't gonna be easy but you'll at least have the means to deal with them. Golem isn't immune to instant death so you could try to cheese him with that. If you swap someone out for a dark hunter with a maxed climax skill (even a temporary swap for a low level DH will be fine) you can 1HKO him 100% certainty once he's below 55% health. The problem is that you'll first have to first get him to 55% with what is effectively a 4 man team. You already have a protector which is the closest thing to a hard requirement for the postgame. There's actually a way to cheese the game and make your party near invincible using a protector... but you have to beat golem to access it.

Here my overview of the classes if anyone's interested:
Spoiler: show
Solid classes you could never go wrong with:

Hexer - Dampen and frailty ruin the defenses of every enemy in the game. Revenge is the overall best attack in the game. Poison destroys 90% of random encounters. They can also weaken the enemy's attack, lower the enemy's speed, and increase your item drop rate among other useful things. They're broken.

Dark Hunter - Strong and versatile attacker. Climax is their main selling point - it will instantly kill any enemy who is 1) not immune to instant death and 2) below 55% health. Only ~10 enemies in the game are immune to instant death so it's really good. Bait and magibait aren't always reliable but they can potentially do as much damage as two or three ronins. Ecstasy is also super powerful but requires setup. Viper is a decent bread and butter skill that will do about as much damage as a landsknecht. Their force skill is great and their final whip lets them use it very frequently. They're also very fast.

Ronin - Very strong attacker. A little fragile but not too bad. Spamming midareba all day isn't exciting but it gets results. Medium speed but they usually go before the enemy which is all that really matters. Their elemental attacks give them versatility in clearing random encounters and dealing with bosses that resist physical damage.

War Magus - A versatile class that combines buffs, healing, and damage, and they're good at all three. They're very fast and very durable. It's a bad idea to go without either a war magus or a medic.

Protector - Solid defensive class with a reasonable amount of attack power. You'll have a hard time against the elemental dragons and the true last boss without one.


Useful, balanced classes:

Medic - The most powerful healer in the game, definitely bring one if you don't have a war magus. They're the other class who can increase your item drop rate if for some reason you aren't using a hexer. Their biggest weakness, and the reason why war magi are better, is that medics are very slow. There's a late game staff called the polar rod which has a pretty decent speed modifier and can potentially solve that problem.

Gunner - Back row equivalent to the ronin. Their damage output is very good but I rate them below ronins because of their low speed. They can cure your party's status ailments and their force skill is a guaranteed stun (though this is only useful if your gunner acts before the enemy). Their elemental attacks give them some extra versatility, but most of the time you'll want to spam ricochet.

Troubadour - Useful support class. Their buffs are strong and never wear off naturally. To a small extent a troubadour and war magus will step on each other's toes since there are only a limited number of buff slots. They can wipe enemy buffs too, so you'll want either them or a hexer against buff-happy bosses. Their attack power is garbage and they've got nothing to do once their buffs are up, but that makes them ideal item slaves. If you're willing to blow a ton of money you could probably get away with using an item-spamming troubadour instead of a medic or war magus. Troubadours also increase the amount of experience your party gains, which is very nice.

Alchemist - Damage dealer comparable to ronins and gunners. They're slow and their skills are too expensive. They are very good at targeting a variety of weaknesses, and megido ignores resistances altogether, but that's irrelevant if you have a hexer.


Underpowered classes:

Landsknecht - They're a damage class that does damage about as well as a protector. On the positive side, they're very quick and tough. Usable but not recommended.

Survivalist - Actually very useful, but not in combat. Bad defense, bad offense, dubious support. Keep one in your B team for gathering.

Beast - There are two ways to build a beast - with the loyalty skill, and without it. A beast without loyalty has good defense but can't do much of anything useful. A beast with loyalty will kill themselves at the first opportunity. Rampage is actually one of the best attacks in the game, on par with if not better than the ronin's midareba. If loyalty wasn't a prerequisite for rampage they'd be top tier. As is they aren't worth using.


If you're willing to retire a character, swapping your beast or landsknecht for a hexer or troubadour will both solve your weakness to buffs and considerably increase your strength. Swap out one for hexer/troubadour and the other for dark hunter and you'll have a top tier team. Leveling new characters doesn't take very long in EO2 if you farm, bosses, especially with a troubadour around. You need a level 50 survivalist to access one of the postgame bosses so you'll probably have to do a bit of boss farming anyway. If you don't want to retire anyone then cheese the golem with a low level dark hunter and cheese the ice drake with a low level troubadour.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:00 pm 


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Based Vanguard is based.

If I swap out the beast, who isn't all that useful really, for a Hexer.. Will my team work with two up front?
And will Dampen take care of that frickin' Golem ?

What's that protector cheese method?
I've already started levelling a hexer. Haven't bothered to run the clock to bring bosses back yet, seems absurd.
It was really dumb of them to remove xp gain from FOEs in this game.

I doubt i'll play Etrian 3 for years because this has burned me.
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