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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:10 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Yeah, prerendered 3D really doesn't look too nice at a low resolution, but everything considered, I think DKC pulled it off nicely, moreso DKC2 though, I think that game still looks pretty good.

Killer Instinct for SNES though...

I'm not even restricting it to games, take 3D animated series and cartoons: stuff like Reboot and Transformers Beast Wars, while having interesting stories and all, look like shit now.
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I'll make sure I'll download it illegally one day...


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:46 pm 


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I have never heard of those shows, but I bet they always looked like shit


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:07 pm 


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Reboot did always look like shit. Anemic, colourless, odorless shit that suggests the patient is dying of terminal got no balls poisoning.

Beast Wars, otoh, was absolutely rugged. We're talking about the tape where a horse fucks a guy to death right?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:13 pm 


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lol nevermind then.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:19 pm 


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:wink:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:25 pm 


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BIL wrote:

Beast Wars, otoh, was absolutely rugged. We're talking about the tape where a horse fucks a guy to death right?


Comically the first time I clicked that link I thought I was going to see a guy crushed by a horse. I saw that, but it was far from how I envisioned it.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:31 pm 


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I made a friend watch that for his bachelor party. We got ice cream, then we watched that and his face went kinda white. That's all we really did. Looking back, I think it was a perfect evening.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:35 pm 


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drauch wrote:
I made a friend watch that for his bachelor party. We got ice cream, then we watched that and his face went kinda white. That's all we really did. Looking back, I think it was a perfect evening.


Perhaps it inspired him to be a more considerate lover! Image

Most shocking thing for me was the dude being a NASA engineer or somesuch. :o Can't calculate your way out of that reentry, old chum! EMERGENCY FACT CHECK EDIT: Boeing engineer, rather. Uh... can't calculate your way out of that... no I've got nothing, not for a ninja edit anyway. Fuck!

Meanwhile, in the most XTREEM of decades,

Spoiler: show
SANICS THE NAME

Image

SPEDS MY GAME


Bring me the slaughtering knife.

Money For Nothing however remains rad as fuuuck

Spoiler: show
Image

^ that was exactly how me and a client looked one time, as our discussion of his new patio was interrupted by his violently shivering dog cocking his leg and taking an enormous shit on his coffee table (separation anxiety IIRC :sad: ). Except I've never smoked!


EDIT2: EMERGENCY COURSE CORRECTION Oh, ha ha, I've had a real bitch of a time in foreign climes lately. If I don't find me passport, lord I'm gonna fade away! So I've been back on the ol' BDOOM for ultimate stress relief that can also be a mean time if required. I think it's getting updated soon? Ah, I was happy with the winter 2016 update tbh. He tends to change stuff I like, however slightly, so I've not been too up on it. But I will check back soon!

PUT THE BARREL DOWN BARRY, FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST

Image

NAWWW, WHY IT HAVE 2 B THIS WAY

As eternally steaming as my iron rod for Japanese arcade-derived stuff may be, the shameful truth is, this + DOOMBuilder is probably all I need forever. It'll never happen though. :[
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:21 pm 


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Hopefully that situation will resolve itself BIL. Best of luck.

Where you at now nigga? PALfordshire?


Also I love your line of thinking :

When stuff's on your mind, vent the fuck out of it by playing some br00tal DOOM :lol: Awesome


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:47 pm 


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Thanks buddy ;-;7 Just waiting to hear back on a passport renewal tbh, would normally be a snap but the timing's a bitch, so me knackers are under some pressure! Yup still lurking on the corner of Tinkletowne Crescent off WeeWillehWinkeh BLVD, which is more home than the distant shores CUCK ISLAND have been in recent years. Actually by law I'm a born citizen of the fucker anyway, but they sometimes forget it seems!

Nothing the usual rx of BDOOM and lots of Motorhead/Venom/Frost can't fix. Image

Back off IMP! My dong is bigger than your dong! Oh so that's how it's gonna be hmm :evil:

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XTREEM VIOLENCE meets SMOOTHEST RESPONSE and ULTIMATE TECHNIQUE. tldr I go all Sanjuro on a muhfucka Image
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:18 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Nothing the usual rx of BDOOM and lots of Motorhead/Venom/Frost can't fix.

That's my boy 8)

Spoiler: show
I'm sometime thinking of going full-on primitive north american caveman and calling you a FUCKING CUCK for living over there, but you're disarming me with these cuck island pre-emptive strikes. Dammit!


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:19 pm 


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Yeah plus our national anthem is snazzy as fuck :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:23 pm 


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:mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:29 pm 


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LOL. What in the actual **** is going on itt? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:37 pm 


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You and your BDoom... *shudders*

prboom-plus is the way and the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:06 pm 


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YOU NEVER UNDERSTAND ME OBSCURA (;`ω´;)

BDOOM and DOOM are entirely different things to me. 3; I did the E1-3 nightmare no guns thing in DOS before I knew what jerking off was! I just want that same smooth action to be reciprocal and volatile once again. Image I like it when zombieman shoot at me and cacoman try to bite me Image
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:48 pm 


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But it's not the place of the fodder in that game to be terribly aggressive or threatening in and of themselves! Do you complain that the generic dudes in Metal Slug don't do much of anything but maybe lazily throw a single unthreatening grenade before getting gunned down? What about the tanks in a Seibu or Toaplan game that just lazily shoot a single aimed bullet at you that's negated by just sweeping across the screen? It's not about the enemy that makes the magic in Doom; it's how the enemy is placed, like generic soldier dudes that interfere with getting past some obstacle or the tank popping out of that building on the bottom of the screen to shoot you while he gets help from his buddy the big tank that distracts you with some envelope pattern.

Id's own levels are a bit too tame (E3 has some fun ideas though; it's just a bit too friendly), but that's because Doom came out in a time when no one knew how to play FPS. Brutal Doom doesn't fix this, though; it turns the meh "basic tank that gets its turret blown off" placement into meh "Gun.Smoke dude" placement. No one looks at Fire Barrel and thinks "man, this should be modded to have Gun.Smoke dudes instead of basic tanks"; they just go play a Raiden-clone with more exciting level design. The correct solution is to Doom is to play Plutonium Winds or Unholy Realms or Resurgence or SD20x7 or something.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:16 am 


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Obscura wrote:
But it's not the place of the fodder in that game to be terribly aggressive or threatening in and of themselves! Do you complain that the generic dudes in Metal Slug don't do much of anything but maybe lazily throw a single unthreatening grenade before getting gunned down? What about the tanks in a Seibu or Toaplan game that just lazily shoot a single aimed bullet at you that's negated by just sweeping across the screen? It's not about the enemy that makes the magic in Doom; it's how the enemy is placed, like generic soldier dudes that interfere with getting past some obstacle or the tank popping out of that building on the bottom of the screen to shoot you while he gets help from his buddy the big tank that distracts you with some envelope pattern.


Critical difference being, any one of those MS grunts' sporadic attacks will kill you fucking dead, giving them an innate threat level undreamed of by DOOM zombies. I love MS grunts and their knack for busting out sudden, humiliating upsets... but that's only possible because the game doesn't let me withstand dozens of their attacks with regular HP restores per stage.

BDOOM zombies are actually a lot more comparable, now that my addled brain thinks of it. :lol: They're not an outright terror but you can't ignore them either - one might roll his mag burst and take a chunk of HP you'll need later. A whole gang of them can outright kill you if this happens, especially as they no longer hit each other. Be like Alex J. Murphy up in this muhfucka. It takes bad luck and a careless player, but then so do MS grunts' surprise kills! That's a decent zako threat.

And don't get me wrong - the vanilla Cacos and Barons are useless too. I ain't scared bro! Those ain't no Melty Honeys ala MS1 stage 5 bridge! Everything's toothless in vanilla DOOM E1-3, right up to the big bosses. As you say, placement is key, and it doesn't have it.

It's also not a matter of the rank/file simply being more dangerous. Everything in vanilla DOOM follows the same dull "advance while firing" routine; BDOOM adds some variety with its new enemy attacks and evasion routines, creating a nice matrix of random overlapping threats. Barons can suddenly dominate your space with a spreadshot, forcing you to dodge more sharply than you may like. Imps can outright chase you around a room with claws if not kept at arm's length. A Caco might stubbornly dodge your rockets while something else closes in, or alternatively lunge straight at you when you're trying to escape a corner... it's not much, but something will always trounce flat nothing.

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Id's own levels are a bit too tame (E3 has some fun ideas though; it's just a bit too friendly),


They're not too tame. They're nothing. :/ Unless cranked to Nightmare +respawn, where it becomes an unsatisfying quasi-vehicular combat game where speed is everything and killing is a compromise at best.

Episode 4 is a sound notch about E1-3 but even it's loaded with subpar enemy usage. I like erasing the lot and redoing it in DOOMBuilder occasionally, so E4M7's Cyberdemon isn't a bad joke. I make him strike in that central courtyard, furniture arranged so the player can't rely on boring old circle strafe.

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but that's because Doom came out in a time when no one knew how to play FPS. Brutal Doom doesn't fix this, though; it turns the meh "basic tank that gets its turret blown off" placement into meh "Gun.Smoke dude" placement. No one looks at Fire Barrel and thinks "man, this should be modded to have Gun.Smoke dudes instead of basic tanks"; they just go play a Raiden-clone with more exciting level design. The correct solution is to Doom is to play Plutonium Winds or Unholy Realms or Resurgence or SD20x7 or something.


YOU NEVER UNDERSTAND ME OBSC- wait I already said that.

Yeah I know there's killer user-made DOOM maps out there, far beyond the vanilla game's wildest ambitions. I've played a few (Scythe was fun, mostly, though in hindsight I didn't enjoy the bulldozing mass of enemies in its last few stages... I've not forgotten yours that you linked either! can't recall the name offhand but I know exactly where the post was for when I want to give it a go). But there's a million great things I'm not playing for whatever reason atm, and regardless, that's not what I'm after. I want vanilla DOOM E1-3 with some bite and chaos to it once again. Job done.

It's not the best bite or the perfect chaos but so what? This whole tangent sprung up because HM Passport Office has my nuts in a fucking vice at the moment due to a hilarious accident of birth involving a jungle fever-crazed Englishman stranded in the former colonies. I'm just trying not to snap and go full Falling Down. (I would never do such a craven thing - unarmed civilians are even more pitiable and in need of love than vanilla DOOM zombies)

I know BD has retarded fans but so does everything. Don't judge me motherfucker. v-v The gore etc isn't my bag, I just want meaner monsters and hard hits. >_>
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:54 am 


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BIL wrote:
Critical difference being, those MS grunts' sporadic attacks will kill you fucking dead. I love MS grunts, but that's because the game doesn't let me withstand dozens of their attacks with regular HP restores per stage. No comparison whatsoever between them and DOOM zombies.

Ok, compare them to random Darius zakos when you're in a game that gives you a shield that lets you take about a dozen hits before you blow up.

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And don't get me wrong - the Cacos and Barons are useless too. Everything's toothless in vanilla DOOM E1-3, right up to the big bosses. As you say, placement is key, and it doesn't have it.

Eh, I consider the Caco to be an imp that flies, just more fodder useful for places where you need an enemy that can handle vertical terrain. Barons aren't useless, but E1M8 and E3M5 use them terribly, I'll give you that.

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It's also not a matter of the rank/file simply being more dangerous. Everything in vanilla DOOM follows the same dull "advance while firing"

Not quite true; Pinkies and Spectres advance while not firing :P

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They're not too tame. They're nothing.

Eh, I really don't agree there. E3M1, for instance, works great, unless you're going out of your way to stubbornly deny yourself fun by slooooooowly plinking a Caco to death with a pistol. Pop the door open, Cacodemon, I don't have a suitable gun! Oh crap, gotta run further in, pissing off more imps a long the way! Oh, there's a gun... but it's on unstable terrain over a lava pit! Now that I've got a gun, I've got to fight from a really bad tactical situation to try to retake control of the level! Now, this ends up not being a big to-do because this was 1993 and it was a few imps because no one knew how to play FPS, but the scenario is there. There's lots of neat choreography like this all over the Petersen maps (Romero's E1 is a boring bunch of nothing, I'll grant you that, but BDoom really doesn't fix E1. Nothing short of redoing the monster placement entirely fixes E1.).

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(Scythe was fun, mostly, though in hindsight I didn't enjoy the bulldozing mass of enemies in its last few stages).

Map 30 holds up even today, IMO. Map 26... doesn't, but the visceral impact of "one room with 666 monsters" was pretty pronounced back in the day, even if it's so over-resourced that you can tank Cyberdemon rockets to the face and just not care. Those are the only two in that wad that are "Doom as a lawnmower simulation"; 27 and 28 were both weird experimental maps, and 29 was a Doom 2 style urban-sandbox puzzly thing.

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I want vanilla DOOM E1-3 with some bite and chaos to it once again. Job done.

While not all that common, "remake classic maps with more functional monster placement" do exist if that combination of familiarity with more intensity is your bag. Much of Kama Sutra is "Heretic remixes in Doom", TimeofDeath did E1M1 and Map01 remixes that are both pretty cool (especially the map01 remix, "Smedly", which can be found in ESP.wad; he also covers classic levels from other games, such as Quake's E1M2 and even Rosewater Park from Silent Hill 2!), Hell Grounds has a couple of Plutonia remixes, and there's more that's not coming to mind immediately.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:59 am 


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Obscura wrote:
Eh, I consider the Caco to be an imp that flies, just more fodder useful for places where you need an enemy that can handle vertical terrain. Barons aren't useless, but E1M8 and E3M5 use them terribly, I'll give you that.


Oh, to clarify, I don't think there's anything wrong with the monsters themselves. I was genuinely a bit contemptuous of Barons/Knights (poor E1M8... you were cool at the time!), until you mentioned their dreadful bulldozing effect in tight confines. (big fan of "slow zombie" movies and the inescapable, crushing advance) Stuff like that and the Archvile/Cyberdemon tag team I respect - it's just so rare to see E1-3 (or even 4) grasp that murderously efficient placement. Early days, as you say.

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Not quite true; Pinkies and Spectres advance while not firing :P


This is why I think BDOOM should drop the pretense and just make 'em act exactly like Quake's Fiends (sharp cornering + ranged swing + killer stomp) - although he's kind of screwed himself there, since currently Imps are the pounce type you can't just lead around by the nose. :wink:

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Eh, I really don't agree there. E3M1, for instance, works great, unless you're going out of your way to stubbornly deny yourself fun by slooooooowly plinking a Caco to death with a pistol. Pop the door open, Cacodemon, I don't have a suitable gun! Oh crap, gotta run further in, pissing off more imps a long the way! Oh, there's a gun... but it's on unstable terrain over a lava pit! Now that I've got a gun, I've got to fight from a really bad tactical situation to try to retake control of the level!


This is exactly how I like to do it. "Wait there Cacos, I'll be back after I run the collapsing bridge and murder your three pals at point-blank while using their BBQ pit as cover!" I like the slight variance in where the Cacos might be when you return, too - this was the impetus for my circa-1995 trick of noclipping all over a UV/Fast map to wake everybody up, then returning to the start and making a save file so things could play out a little differently each time.

Out of curiosity... does it ever come up in DOOM discussion how enemies seemingly can't "patrol" ala Wolf3D's guards? That's basically what I was trying to achieve back then. Even there though, it wasn't the same, since the monsters would be homing in on your XY position, and obviously manipulable via that. Not quite that eerie sense of crossing paths with a sudden threat.

I was thrilled to see it back in Quake, even if by that point it was mostly for atmosphere, with the pace and scale way beyond Wolf3D's almost lightgun-esque simplicity. I still find Spear of Destiny's zombie mazes rather pants-shitting on Death Incarnate, with those relentless blind 90' turns, and the zombies' total silence and lightning draw speed. Nightmarish.

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Now, this ends up not being a big to-do because this was 1993 and it was a few imps because no one knew how to play FPS, but the scenario is there. There's lots of neat choreography like this all over the Petersen maps (Romero's E1 is a boring bunch of nothing, I'll grant you that, but BDoom really doesn't fix E1. Nothing short of redoing the monster placement entirely fixes E1.).


E1's a total stress ball, yep - my least-played even in BD. I have a soft spot for E2's winding passages and circuitous layouts - just a thing I have for ferreting through nooks and crannies. Total fluke, but BD's erratic respawn works great here, with the small but potent risk of something popping back up and cutting off your escape (or even better, an outright pincer erupting somewhere like E2M6). What I appreciate most about E3 now is the freedom to just bust straight through the seemingly-disordered open plan stages, or take my time touring about, or anything between.

Quote:
While not all that common, "remake classic maps with more functional monster placement" do exist if that combination of familiarity with more intensity is your bag. Much of Kama Sutra is "Heretic remixes in Doom", TimeofDeath did E1M1 and Map01 remixes that are both pretty cool (especially the map01 remix, "Smedly", which can be found in ESP.wad; he also covers classic levels from other games, such as Quake's E1M2 and even Rosewater Park from Silent Hill 2!), Hell Grounds has a couple of Plutonia remixes, and there's more that's not coming to mind immediately.


I'd like to check out that Quake map just to see how he handled the architecture in DOOM's engine. :o Rosewater always did seem quite the deathmatch venue, now that you mention it... lots of pinching corners to eat a blind rocket in. :mrgreen:

Thanks for the names, as always - I'm kinda glad to hear you say E1-3 upgrades aren't the most abundant, as they're exactly what I went looking for circa 2008 without much luck. Eventually I took the forums' advice and just messed around with Builder, but ofc it's never quite the same as encountering someone else's work.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:24 am 


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BIL wrote:
Out of curiosity... does it ever come up in DOOM discussion how enemies seemingly can't "patrol" ala Wolf3D's guards? That's basically what I was trying to achieve back then. Even there though, it wasn't the same, since the monsters would be homing in on your XY position, and obviously manipulable via that. Not quite that eerie sense of crossing paths with a sudden threat.

Not generally -- Doom's different sound propagation model means you can create a similar effect without needing it. The idea is that a sound has to cross two sound-blocking linedefs in order to be stopped; combining this with clever sector joins and windows between sectors means you can have enemies from a long way away trying to hunt you down, and since their pathing is subject to the whims of the pseudo-RNG, it means there's no way to know when you'll encounter a random zombie. This is one of the few interesting things about E1 (mainly from a technical perspective, mind you, not from a "is it fun to play" perspective); Romero intentionally leveraged this effect as much as he could, except it really didn't matter because he creates unpredictable encounters with one or two zombies.

Quote:
Thanks for the names, as always - I'm kinda glad to hear you say E1-3 upgrades aren't the most abundant, as they're exactly what I went looking for circa 2008 without much luck. Eventually I took the forums' advice and just messed around with Builder, but ofc it's never quite the same as encountering someone else's work.

Yeah, usually most mappers would rather just make their own layouts than screw around with remaking stuff in maps that already exist, and the fact that /idgames won't allow the upload of modified IWAD maps (at least in theory, although in practice, there's a lot of them there) puts an even stronger desire for people to make their own stuff from scratch.

It occurs to me, that since you're more "Zdoom-willing", that there's a ZDoom-specific version of Smedly that's a bit enhanced from the original -- it ups the monster count from ~1800 to ~2000 (it's not as much of a clusterfuck as you think, even though it shares its layout with Map01, the progression is very different and involves a lot of area re-use), incorporates rocket jumps into the progression, has literal stacks of monsters that fall out of the ceiling, and adds a weird puzzle where you play a song from the Silent Hill 2 soundtrack on a piano made out of switches.

EDIT: Forgot to mention this, but Re: Ep 2 being a bit of a "dungeon dive-y expedition", this was because several maps in it (including M6, easily its best map IMO) were a tile-for-tile remake of the DnD campaign that Petersen was running at the time!


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:04 am 


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BIL wrote:
hilarious accident of birth involving a jungle fever-crazed Englishman stranded in the former colonies.

Did he hear the drums..

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classic levels from other games, such as Quake's E1M2 and even Rosewater Park from Silent Hill 2!

:o Damn, might check that out.
Playing through a complete remake of Silent Hill 1 in Left4Dead with mates was one of the best fan level/mod experiences I've had.

Obscura I want you to know that I play doom with vertical mouselook, WASD and jumping. I keep weapons from previous levels, no pistol starts. I save the game after every wave of enemies, all save files are called 'Obscura' with no numeration.
All while jerking myself off with my feet, aiming at a DracXX cart. I do not own a SNES.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:01 pm 


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Obscura wrote:
It occurs to me, that since you're more "Zdoom-willing", that there's a ZDoom-specific version of Smedly that's a bit enhanced from the original -- it ups the monster count from ~1800 to ~2000 (it's not as much of a clusterfuck as you think, even though it shares its layout with Map01, the progression is very different and involves a lot of area re-use), incorporates rocket jumps into the progression, has literal stacks of monsters that fall out of the ceiling, and adds a weird puzzle where you play a song from the Silent Hill 2 soundtrack on a piano made out of switches.


Thanks but don't worry, I'm gonna get down to business with prboom-plus when I start playing user maps again. :wink: I'm actually as much of a purist with DOS gaming as I am JP console stuff, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Quote:
EDIT: Forgot to mention this, but Re: Ep 2 being a bit of a "dungeon dive-y expedition", this was because several maps in it (including M6, easily its best map IMO) were a tile-for-tile remake of the DnD campaign that Petersen was running at the time!


That explains so much, especially E2M6's uneasy jaunts deep into treacherously tight quarters... places that become escape-confounding deathtraps when disaster strikes. That killer fakeout too, possibly the game's most "cinematic" stage moment and certainly the one that made the biggest mark on me BITD.

Even its already \m/etal title evokes some terrible yet alluring ruin, the end of many a foolhardy band! "Cmon bro don't be a pussy, those dead cats had whole halls fulla loot down there! What could possibly go wrong?"

Going out on a limb, I'd guess this informed E2M2's "maintenance shaft" nooks packed with goodies and the odd monster mob, too.

Blinge wrote:
Did he hear the drums..


He went black and never made it back. :shock:

However all is forgiven, apparently, because my new passport just fell through the letterbox. Well that's a fucking relief. Image

You just can't believe the joy I did receive
When I finally got my leave and I was going home ♫
(why yes, I do know how Love Vigilantes ends Image )

Quote:
vertical mouselook, WASD and jumping.


DOS DOOM has WASD ^_~

Spoiler: show
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Ah, ol' days. ;-;
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:21 pm 


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If you 'hear the drums' it's because you're walking through the forest of life then suddenly you hear the distant music of another culture and their hot wimminz/manmeat: you hear the drums.
Eh? What's that sound? w...what is that? Maybe I should get closer, peer through the leaves.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:01 am 


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BIL wrote:
Quote:
EDIT: Forgot to mention this, but Re: Ep 2 being a bit of a "dungeon dive-y expedition", this was because several maps in it (including M6, easily its best map IMO) were a tile-for-tile remake of the DnD campaign that Petersen was running at the time!


That explains so much, especially E2M6's uneasy jaunts deep into treacherously tight quarters... places that become escape-confounding deathtraps when disaster strikes. That killer fakeout too, possibly the game's most "cinematic" stage moment and certainly the one that made the biggest mark on me BITD.

Even its already \m/etal title evokes some terrible yet alluring ruin, the end of many a foolhardy band! "Cmon bro don't be a pussy, those dead cats had whole halls fulla loot down there! What could possibly go wrong?"

Going out on a limb, I'd guess this informed E2M2's "maintenance shaft" nooks packed with goodies and the odd monster mob, too.


Ha ha, yeah I love that little tidbit. Apparently the games premise was inspired by campaign in which John Romero's character accidentally opened a portal to Hell. Or something along those lines.

If I recall correctly, there's more DND influence in the games engine too. IIRC the rng that decides the damage on certain weapons (BFG9000 and Shotgun I THINK) is loosely inspired by D&D Dice Rolls. IE the BFG generates a number of hitscan "rays" when it explodes that are based on a certain die roll.


While we're on the topic of TRPG's (which are technically on-topic to non-shmup games)!! An excerpt from the campaign I'm in right now:

*GM cues Wounded Warsong from Silent Hill 4 and belts out this monster of an environmental description*:

Quote:
The dolls clear a hill.

It wasn't a mere ship
It wasn't even a city
Lissandra looks like a lost world.


Ahead of them, stretching all the way to the horizon is a city of magic and glass. Three moons, shattered and pulsing, two dimensional and four, float slowly in the air as they repair and re-shatter themselves, the clocks upon them whirling madly in a blur of hands. The blocks, streets and spires of the city are filled with light and sound. Organs and bone. Great curling pistons of gold and brass rise and fall while great glowing chimes sound in the air. Floating arcs of pressed light and diamond flutter like steel butterflies between pillar to post and back again. Alien lights and ominous glows ripple and race down those empty streets and up those towering spires, speeding through the haunted streets like vengeful electric ghosts.

More alarmingly though is how the sky itself towards the furthest corner of the city is a hypnotic ripple of rainbow colours. Of shifting forms and shapes unreal made real. The thump of a heartbeat carries over the dreamscape and great pulsing arteries throb, full of rushing blood and power as the veins are deeply knotted within the city itself. Most striking of all, is a great glowing orb that throbs in the sky. It stretches outwards, rippling like molten wax. An oddly human face is upon it's moon-like visage as it twists itself into an impossibly long double-helix, crooning deeply as it threads itself around the enormous spires, towers and ports of the lost city. The sky behind it, the sky that -is- it pulses white and then gold, sinking more of it's roots deeper into the lost world.

Hilda can blatantly remember that this, what is there, is part of the Sum of all Fears. An extension of the City of Forms, the hand of the Tree of Ages, creeping out from her realm and into our own. She will claim this banished land. She will snatch it out from under the Dragon who would keep it hidden and the Man who would unearth it.


For a glimpse into the character driven drama we've been doing, there's also my recent rpg thread rambling~
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:32 am 


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What's the difference between PrBoom+ compared to something like ZDoom anyways?
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chum wrote:
the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.

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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:04 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
For a glimpse into the character driven drama we've been doing, there's also my recent rpg thread rambling~


Quote:
Our main game has more of an emphasis on mystery, being a very weird post apocatalyptic biopunk sci-fantasy, and trying to figure out what originally caused the end of the world is a major goal. The DM created the setting, and is really adamant about not revealing too much until the right moment. So most players learn about the setting as they go.


Sounds a bit BLAME! in that regard. :smile: Big fan of inherently mysterious settings... not even necessarily threatening or dark ones, just as long as they provoke some wonder in the player with exposition kept minimal.

Spoiler: show
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Hell yeah motherfucker.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:48 pm 


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Durandal wrote:
What's the difference between PrBoom+ compared to something like ZDoom anyways?

Enemy behavior, the nuances of movement (to the point that no-monsters demos recorded in PrBoom+, chocolate/vanilla/crispy, or Eternity won't play back in ZDoom without desync-ing), the hit detection code (melee is much easier in ZDoom, and the blockmap is much more favorable to the player when it comes to shotgun and BFG damage), ZDoom's RNG is truly random unlike PrBoom+ which maintains the original PRNG lookup table (which is a bigger deal than it may sound like, since Doom's PRNG table is intentionally skewed to "middle of the range" values), moving sector timing (teleporter traps generally pop more slowly in ZDoom)... the list goes on and on. And that's not even counting things that can be changed in ZDoom to be like classic Doom but aren't that way by default, such as monsters being infinitely tall, ghost monsters, or the nuances of how the stairbuilder works, and ZDoom doesn't have a -complevel argument that easily gets all of these settings correct for you.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:07 am 


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I picked up Dead Cells because it was on sale and this is apparently the feature complete build just prior to 1.0.

This is the game Rogue Legacy should have been. Castlevania is a huge influence, but this game plays much faster. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:45 am 


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You didn't like Rogue Legacy?


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