What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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WelshMegalodon
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

After obtaining the best ending in the GBA port of FDS Metroid, I recently replayed Metroid II like I had been meaning to after seeing Volteccer_Jack's and kitten's thoughts on the game waaaaay back in 2016, then decided I'd round out the classic trilogy by replaying Super. Playing the three back to back it's interesting to see how, despite numerous thematical similarities, they each aim to be different beasts:

- Metroid is about overcoming impossible odds and feeling triumphant when you lay waste to Mother Brain and the Space Pirates.
- Metroid II is about feeling lost, disoriented, and uncomfortable on SR388 while being constantly reminded that you are committing genocide.
- Super Metroid is about playing with toys and going on a power trip in an open-ended virtual world. This philosophy totally does not color the modern gaming landscape in any way.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BrianC »

Marc wrote: Got back around to Sonic 1…. My god, the Labyrinth Zone is just as poor as I remember. The one selling point of Sonic is that it was fast. Speedy. Hectic. Rapid. This Zone takes the one unique point of the game, throws it in the garbage, and sets fire to it. Water levels are very, very rarely fun (I think Super Mario World has the only ones I didn’t find a horrible chore to play), and this is one of the worst. The only saving grace is that one of the devs seemed to understand this, and as a result they seem a lot smaller than previous Zones.
That doesn't explain Act 3 of Scrap Brain Zone (which is also longer than the Labyrinth Zone stages, if I remember correctly). That section is out of place and makes no sense, even to those who like Labyrinth Zone. Why even do that?
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ajora »

I recently played through about 90% of Alex Kidd in Miracle World. As with Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle, which I finished on the PS2 maybe 5 years ago, it has some neat ideas and fun powerups, but poor controls and wonky hit detection. The game is far removed from being difficult but can be really annoying and cheap at times. Having to fight bosses by playing rock paper scissors was a stupid idea then and it's a stupid idea now. I've often thought of Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle as the most average game I've ever played but seeing as how it retained most of the annoying design features of the original Alex Kidd, without really improving upon much, I can safely say that my respect for that game has dropped, though I definitely had more fun playing it than I did with Miracle World. I have no desire to play Miracle World ever again. 

Alex Kidd in Shinobi World is quite good, mind you. I really enjoyed playing through that game. I've found that the best Master System games are often the lesser known ones.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

WelshMegalodon wrote: - Super Metroid is about playing with toys and going on a power trip in an open-ended virtual world. This philosophy totally does not color the modern gaming landscape in any way.
Yet I felt hobbled and stunted for most of the game. Especially in those sections when you're confined to an area.
Dunno why I keep bring this up haha, probably because I'm sad that I played a sacred cow wanting to like it and didn't..
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Marc »

Blinge wrote:
WelshMegalodon wrote: - Super Metroid is about playing with toys and going on a power trip in an open-ended virtual world. This philosophy totally does not color the modern gaming landscape in any way.
Yet I felt hobbled and stunted for most of the game. Especially in those sections when you're confined to an area.
Dunno why I keep bring this up haha, probably because I'm sad that I played a sacred cow wanting to like it and didn't..
Oh, it's not just me then. I am glad.
Upon replaying lately the shooting felt a bit lame, the controls a lot more clunky than I remembered, and the boss fights pretty uninspired. The map and atmosphere are amazing, but the gameplay doesn't quite hit those heights IMO.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Herr Schatten »

Ajora wrote:I recently played through about 90% of Alex Kidd in Miracle World. As with Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle, which I finished on the PS2 maybe 5 years ago, it has some neat ideas and fun powerups, but poor controls and wonky hit detection. The game is far removed from being difficult but can be really annoying and cheap at times. Having to fight bosses by playing rock paper scissors was a stupid idea then and it's a stupid idea now. I've often thought of Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle as the most average game I've ever played but seeing as how it retained most of the annoying design features of the original Alex Kidd, without really improving upon much, I can safely say that my respect for that game has dropped, though I definitely had more fun playing it than I did with Miracle World. I have no desire to play Miracle World ever again. 

Alex Kidd in Shinobi World is quite good, mind you. I really enjoyed playing through that game. I've found that the best Master System games are often the lesser known ones.
I feel like I need to defend poor Alex here. Miracle World is one of my favourite games, and only about 50% of that is nostalgia.

The floaty controls need some (well, a lot) getting used to, but once you get the hang of it, they're actually very precise. And the hit detection, wonky as it is, is generally quite generous towards the player.

I agree that the Janken matches are a fundamentally stupid idea, but unlike Enchanted Castle, at least they are not random in Miracle World. The sequence is always the same, so in theory you only ever lose each battle once. Judging from screenshots, the Switch version seems to help you by displaying the sequence you need to choose to win all the matches in the upper and lower part of the screen border.

Unlike Enchanted Castle, Miracle World does have some inspired level design. I especially like how you can experience some levels in completely different ways depending on vehicle (e.g. forest level on bike vs. forest level on foot) or items used (last castle with vs. without flying stick). Speaking of items, in Miracle World each one can have some use somewhere, while in Enchanted Castle some of the items are just useless gimmicks (e.g. the pogo stick). Worse yet, the ability to use items more than once in Castle completely ruins what little half-decent level design there is, as once you acquire the pedicopter, there's no real need to bother with platforming at all.

There's no denying that Miracle World has its flaws, but in my opinion, its merits outshine them by far. It's head and shoulders above a turd like Enchanted Castle, which not only doesn't improve on the earlier game, but is actually much worse in almost every aspect.

I do agree with your opinion on Shinobi World. It's really quite good, even though it's much too short for my taste.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ajora »

As a point of comparison, I played a few minutes of The Enchanted Castle and found its controls were just as floaty as I remembered them. The problem with Miracle World's controls wasn't that they were floaty, but rather that they were extremely slippery and overly responsive. That specter that would appear out of certain mystery blocks and chase you around was also pretty darn annoying.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Vanguard »

Blinge wrote:I understood only half of that but believe me I feel the pain haha!
You know how you unlock items in these games by selling monster parts to the shop? Well in 3 they added a feature where if you have extras of the parts needed to make a weapon, you can use them to forge enhancements onto that weapon. It wasn't really an important feature, you're almost always better off buying a higher level weapon instead of improving what you've got, and most of the best weapons couldn't be forged. But in 4 they decided that every one of the best and second best tiers of weapons need massive amounts of forging to reach full potential. All of the top tier weapons are made from warped cores, which are dropped by the true last boss. They all have 8 forging slots, which means you need to beat the tlb 9 times to max out one weapon.

Much like in EO2, there are two different versions of the true last boss. If you poison him before the fight starts, he becomes much easier and can be beaten by a normal team without too much trouble. The stronger version is incredibly brutal and only an extremely optimized team has a chance. Both versions drop one warped core. So from what I can tell, if you want to fight the stronger version you're supposed to poison the tlb and kill him 45 times (assuming no one is dual wielding!) to prepare. That's absurd so I'm trying to see if I can make do with the second best tier of weapons, which each have 6 forging slots (so I need to kill the appropriate bosses 7 times per character).

In 3 the forging system isn't a problem. None of the strongest weapons can be customized except for the ameno habakiri (which is dropped by the strongest boss and therefore is useless) and the dragonbane (which is only really better than the dragon blade in a warrior might party, and you deserve to suffer if you use that shit). 5 and X use a different forging system that's both more relevant to normal play and far less of a pain to deal with. As long as you wisely settle for the easier version of 4's true last boss, its forging system won't get in the way either and it'll be a really pleasant and brisk game the whole way through.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Obscura »

Resident Evil 2 remake. So far, it seems pretty solid; a competent, well-crafted take on the style, with excellent production. Probably a good bet for anyone into survival horror.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Marc »

I tried the demo. Seemed to be a shinier version of Resi 4 really. Enjoyable, but loses much of the tension of the original. I'd have preferred a straight-up REmake, but I'll end up picking this up when it hits £20-£25.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by drauch »

Marc wrote:Seemed to be a shinier version of Resi 4 really. Enjoyable, but loses much of the tension of the original.
Nah man, not at all. Plays nothing like RE4 except perspective. It's definitely not an action game at all, and you'll definitely be choosing between running or fighting a lot of the time when bullets are scarce. And Mr. X is actually a constant threat in this, so I'd argue it's infinitely more tense than the original.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Obscura »

Yeah, it's not really much like Resi 4. You do have to aim, but that's about the only similarity. It's really more of an exploration/"ok, given that I know I've left zombies in rooms X, Y, and Z, how should I go about getting to point C" game.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

Good to know about REmake II. I had seen a bit of it and just assumed 'they've given it the resi 4 treatment'

I've recently put a lot of time back into Binding of Isaac Afterbirth.
Been trying to recreate my old 'all bosses' run with the latest DLC and toughest character, The Lost, who can only take two hits in any given room or fight.

I've basically done it, All the end game/hardest bosses in one run, just not the middle boss rush also: got sent out of the room.
Managed to get a decent build with good items but it was by no means broken.

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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Obscura »

I've played a bit more of REmake 2, and my opinion has soured considerably. Don't buy it based on what I wrote after my first impressions.

If anything, it needed to be more like Resi 4. Imagine Resi 4 without the melee moves or dodges or the ability to do anything interesting, and you basically have REmake 2. It's really a trainwreck in a lot of ways, many of which don't become obvious until you're a few hours in.

Still probably better than Resi 7.

EDIT: A crosspost from another forum, just an example of the fine game design in REmake 2:

I'm in the library. From there, one of the doors is a long hallway that only connects to the clock tower (I haven't unlocked the door to the east wing from up there yet). I go do something in the clock tower, walk back to the library, and when I'm half-way into the room, Tyrant bursts out of the door I just walked into the library from.

Seriously Capcom, could you at least not make it obvious that your "stalking horror that you're supposed to run and hide from" enemy isn't just being teleported around as it's convenient to you? YOU'RE BEING RIDICULOUSLY OSTENTATIOUS ABOUT HOW YOU CAN TRACK HIM BY HIS LOUD FOOTSTEPS, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE INVESTED IN ANY PART OF YOUR GAME WHEN YOU KEEP POINTING TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN LIKE THIS?
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Durandal »

Obscura wrote: Seriously Capcom, could you at least not make it obvious that your "stalking horror that you're supposed to run and hide from" enemy isn't just being teleported around as it's convenient to you? YOU'RE BEING RIDICULOUSLY OSTENTATIOUS ABOUT HOW YOU CAN TRACK HIM BY HIS LOUD FOOTSTEPS, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE INVESTED IN ANY PART OF YOUR GAME WHEN YOU KEEP POINTING TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN LIKE THIS?
When I left the clock tower room after doing the gear puzzle I could clearly hear him stomping about in the west wing of the station (as unclear as the direction of the stomping sound is, you can at least tell that much by the volume), so I figured the big brain option was to take the other route towards the room where you found the big gear, rather than doubling back to the library. You can unlock that door from the 3F main hall anyways, so I'm not sure how you missed that. I'm not even sure what you're on about here.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Squire Grooktook »

YS - Oath in Felghana on Inferno difficulty

Stuck on Chester 1. I keep dying to the second phase where he unsheathes his katana and teleports behind you. Not sure you can even get out of the way on reaction if he decides to teleport close enough and point blanks you with melee combo. Hm.

Otherwise pretty fun fight and having a good time.
Obscura wrote:Don't buy it based on what I wrote after my first impressions.
I was on the fence, but after this post, I'm definitely going to buy it.
WelshMegalodon wrote: - Super Metroid is about playing with toys and going on a power trip in an open-ended virtual world. This philosophy totally does not color the modern gaming landscape in any way.
Not really. It's more akin to an assault course kinda game: easy enough, but by mastering the unique options you have you can play it in a much more involved and satisfying way (for those seeking a challenge). Taking full advantage of movement mechanics and those "toys" really lets you play it like a damn ninja.

I also still think it probably has the best pacing, layout, and sense of exploration of any Metroid/Metroidvania.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

Squire Grooktook wrote:Stuck on Chester 1. I keep dying to the second phase where he unsheathes his katana and teleports behind you.
Nothin' personal, Adol..






Adol Fitler.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Durandal »

Squire Grooktook wrote: the second phase where he unsheathes his katana and teleports behind you.
"I Really Wish I Had The Double Jump Or Air Slash At This Point In The Game So I Could Extend My Air Time More!"
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by FinalBaton »

Squire Grooktook wrote:easy enough,
funnily enough, I see people on here complaining about it being too difficult... Never understood that complaint.
Squire Grooktook wrote:Taking full advantage of movement mechanics and those "toys" really lets you play it like a damn ninja.
yep
Squire Grooktook wrote:I also still think it probably has the best pacing, layout, and sense of exploration of any Metroid/Metroidvania.
and yep
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Super Metroid is great.
Squire Grooktook wrote:
Obscura wrote:Don't buy it based on what I wrote after my first impressions.
I was on the fence, but after this post, I'm definitely going to buy it.
Looool.

Obscura is only the second person I've encountered that didn't love this game, and the other one is a total nutter that was always going to hate it because it wasn't made in 1998 when his life was better. It's a remake done absolutely right. Definitely worth trying at the very least. I like it way more than the original.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

Squire Grooktook wrote:Taking full advantage of movement mechanics and those "toys" really lets you play it like a damn ninja.
Then... Super Metroid is about sequence breaking to get half the powerups in the game before you're supposed to and killing enemies with the aftershock of your Shinespark?

It is much more compelling once you git gud enough at walljumps and the like to minimize backtracking.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

For the one time I played it, it felt sluggish and horrible.
I also discovered holding L to shoot diagonally a bit too late.
Failed to get to the crashed spaceship about a hundred times, does that mean the grapple hook isn't easy ?

I think it was Ridley..? seemed like a total clusterfuck. could not wrap my head around that one at all. Just spammed missiles and tore through energy tanks.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

That goddamned Wrecked Ship. I fumbled with the Grapple Beam segment in that room for years before I learned that you could get in without the Grapple Beam by using a Shinespark.

Then I learned that you didn't even need the Shinespark.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by FinalBaton »

Blinge wrote:Failed to get to the crashed spaceship about a hundred times
really? that bit never ever even crossed my mind as being difficult

I feel bad for you that you can't enjoy this beautiful game, that legit sucks
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Obscura »

Durandal wrote:
Obscura wrote: Seriously Capcom, could you at least not make it obvious that your "stalking horror that you're supposed to run and hide from" enemy isn't just being teleported around as it's convenient to you? YOU'RE BEING RIDICULOUSLY OSTENTATIOUS ABOUT HOW YOU CAN TRACK HIM BY HIS LOUD FOOTSTEPS, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE INVESTED IN ANY PART OF YOUR GAME WHEN YOU KEEP POINTING TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN LIKE THIS?
When I left the clock tower room after doing the gear puzzle I could clearly hear him stomping about in the west wing of the station (as unclear as the direction of the stomping sound is, you can at least tell that much by the volume), so I figured the big brain option was to take the other route towards the room where you found the big gear, rather than doubling back to the library. You can unlock that door from the 3F main hall anyways, so I'm not sure how you missed that. I'm not even sure what you're on about here.
What I'm on about is those dumbfucks at Capcom made an enemy where they're all like "OOOH, LOOK AT US, YOU CAN TRACK HIM BY HIS FOOTSTEPS!", but then they make him teleport around when he's not exactly where they want him, and they can't even be bothered to make a half-assed effort to hide it (in this case, he entered a room from a narrow hallway where I was two seconds prior without passing me. There was no way he could have gotten to that spot without teleporting. Especially given that, when I was walking across the balcony back to the library, I actually saw him on the bottom floor of the main hall. Yes, this game expects me to believe that Tyrant somehow slipped from the bottom floor of the main hall, past me through the library without either of us noticing each other, into the balcony hallway, only to immediately turn around and burst through the door in angry zombie rage. What a piece of shit.

(The reason I never bothered unlocking the door to the east wing from 3F balcony is because there was still a zombie on the balcony I had left alive, and going for that door would have entailed having to run past him and give Tyrant my location, which didn't seem like a thing that was worth it when he'll never enter the clock tower, so you always have a save haven there.)
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

FinalBaton wrote:
Blinge wrote:Failed to get to the crashed spaceship about a hundred times
really? that bit never ever even crossed my mind as being difficult

I feel bad for you that you can't enjoy this beautiful game, that legit sucks
I know right! haha. I will go back one day.
Or do you really have to know the world in and out to enjoy the freer/ sequence breaking aspect.

Now it's clear that I suck, if I criticised the game design, would you take my points seriously? :P
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Durandal »

Obscura wrote: There was no way he could have gotten to that spot without teleporting. Especially given that, when I was walking across the balcony back to the library, I actually saw him on the bottom floor of the main hall. Yes, this game expects me to believe that Tyrant somehow slipped from the bottom floor of the main hall, past me through the library without either of us noticing each other, into the balcony hallway, only to immediately turn around and burst through the door in angry zombie rage. What a piece of shit.
Mr. X does move faster when you don't see him so it doesn't become too easy to outrun him, but he only teleports during some scripted moments, like when you pick up the handle in the Records Room, when you leave the STARS Office in the B scenario, or when you've done the gear puzzle in the Clock Tower. It wouldn't be that illogical for him to move that way since you rung that bell very loudly in the process of getting the second generator part and all. I vividly remember hearing him stomping around the West Wing on my multiple playthroughs after doing the clock puzzle.
(The reason I never bothered unlocking the door to the east wing from 3F balcony is because there was still a zombie on the balcony I had left alive, and going for that door would have entailed having to run past him and give Tyrant my location, which didn't seem like a thing that was worth it when he'll never enter the clock tower, so you always have a save haven there.)
I think making some noise in the process of dealing with the zombie on the balcony would be pissing in the ocean after ringing that bell. The main path has you clearly run back towards the 1F East Wing staircase so you can go underground to do the jail cell puzzle after finding the second generator part in the Clock Tower, and instead of taking the obvious one-way locked door towards the East Wing you'd rather take a detour through the West Wing where all the stomping is coming from? I mean... that may have not been the brightest approach.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Obscura »

Durandal wrote:Mr. X does move faster when you don't see him so it doesn't become too easy to outrun him, but he only teleports during some scripted moments, like when you pick up the handle in the Records Room, when you leave the STARS Office in the B scenario, or when you've done the gear puzzle in the Clock Tower. It wouldn't be that illogical for him to move that way since you rung that bell very loudly in the process of getting the second generator part and all. I vividly remember hearing him stomping around the West Wing on my multiple playthroughs after doing the clock puzzle.
Are you sure? I've seen a lot of sources say that if he's more than one room away from you, if you shoot a gun, he instantly teleports to "one room away", and that lines up with some of the behavior and strange angles he's come at me from (another one was after using the club key on the west wing, he was chasing me, and I escaped through the window in that one room; then he appeared from the dead-end hallway to continue his chase. How the hell did he get there without teleporting?)
I think making some noise in the process of dealing with the zombie on the balcony would be pissing in the ocean after ringing that bell. The main path has you clearly run back towards the 1F East Wing staircase so you can go underground to do the jail cell puzzle after finding the second generator part in the Clock Tower, and instead of taking the obvious one-way locked door towards the East Wing you'd rather take a detour through the West Wing where all the stomping is coming from? I mean... that may have not been the brightest approach.
Except he didn't seem to give two shits about the bell.

I rang the bell, walked out onto the balcony. He was aimlessly walking in circles on the bottom floor of the main hall, and seemed to have no idea I was there. I figured I'd go across the second floor, knowing that I had that path more clear of zombies than I did the upper route (if he's on the bottom floor near the typewriter, and you go across the second floor, he won't usually see you as long as you don't run). I walked into the library, and as I approached the staircase, he bursts out of the door I just entered the library through. So ridiculous and transparent.

(Also, I've made it to the Ada Wong section of the game, and there's no way you can defend this. There's no vestiges of classic Resident Evil here to justify why the action system is so basic; the game has turned into a full-on third person shooter action game here, and it's a third person shooter action game without the dodges and melee moves and such that Resi 4 needed to work. It's so bad, it's kind of amazing in a way -- the absolute perfect case study in the ultimate platonic form of a shitty action game where you do nothing but kite melee enemies that are slower than you.)
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soprano1
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by soprano1 »

Mega Man 11 (PC)
I think it's good. Robot Master design is a bit all over the place, some generic looking ones too, but after 10 I don't really care much now. Music seems uninspired, it's like I'm listening to OCRemix remixes of the songs. Pretty graphics with smooth movement, this is what they should have aimed for back in 97 and 98 with 8 and R&F.
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:I'll make sure I'll download it illegally one day...
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kitten
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by kitten »

re: the super metroid talk, i was thinking about it recently when mopping up a full replay of RE4. and when i say 'full replay,' i mean getting 5 stars on every mercenaries stage with every character, doing an optimized pro mode run, separate ways, assignment ada, etc. i did it all, again. i thought to myself that the most fun i had on this recent attempt with it was just going through the default game on the default difficulty for the first time in a while. i enjoyed it the most just dicking around while having finally forgotten enough to be a little surprised again.

i don't really like re4 on pro, i think it becomes grueling and loses a lot of its fun (comparatively, i love many of its spiritual successors more on their hard modes - the evil within, dark sector, dead space, etc.). later setpieces feel like they require memorization and take away the whole joy of that tedious-but-compelling resource management crawl that glues everything together - you just learn to run through them or get chewed up. i thought to myself, then, that the absolute most fun i had with RE4 ever was the very first run i did. cowering at the novistadors, making stupid upgrade decisions, running out of ammo for the shotgun because i was just using it too much, etc.

i think the same of super metroid, honestly. like re4, there's an incredibly high skill ceiling for optimized play, but i really strictly do not enjoy it like i do most of my favorite action games. i felt like the fun was in getting startled by crocomire, crawling my way to enough missile upgrades i felt i could take on the next boss, figuring out what the fuck the etecoons were up to, etc. i feel that's where the brunt of the intent lies, honestly, in a purely casual experience. i can never, ever go back to that, and i can't judge either game completely fairly because of how gone that is. they're both experiences that, to me, are best enjoyed casually and very tailored around that first time experience despite their capacity for high-tier play.

for most of my favorite action games, i always feel like i enjoy the game *more* after several plays, but with those, it feels like considerably less. i think that's part of why they're so tremendously popular, they're games that care more about the casual experience than anything else. despite both games obviously caring about what you can do to optimize them, i can't help but feel with both that i'm just skipping everything good when pressing them to mechanical limits.
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