What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Bayonetta - just got a Pure Platinum of the secret hour and a half long or so Lost Chapter (without using PT/Rn or off-screen camera AI exploits for the boss fights): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/367347365 / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6gJ6QVPXg4
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Sumez
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

Leviathan wrote:Don't know where to post this, but Oniken and Odallus are getting a limited physical release from Play Asia for Switch and PS4. Considered it, but the price on gog is much more appealing. Might buy them when they're next on sale. The games look interesting, and I'm looking forward to the upcoming Blazing Chrome from the same team.
Oniken is a really bad game that misunderstands everything that defines that genre.
Odallus does a lot more things right, and in focusing less on pure action, and more on exploration and atmosphere, I think it pulls through quite well. It also controls a lot better.
Many people don't like it either, but I think it's alright.
Leandro wrote: Awesome review, loved his enthusiasm and knowledge. To me this game's only fault is the final boss being a pallette swap of a previous boss.
Is it me, or does this seem to be a tendency with a lot of Capcom brawlers?
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:Bayonetta - just got a Pure Platinum of the secret hour and a half long or so Lost Chapter (without using PT/Rn or off-screen camera AI exploits for the boss fights): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/367347365
Jesus that's impressive. I struggled enough on normal mode to finish the game without spamming healing items.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Thanks. This is after well over 200+ hours of playing across the XB360 version and the PC version which I like a lot more since I can remap the controller in Steam so LT is lock on, as well as setup JoyToKey to use rapid fire for dumb stuff like Isla Del Sol, the cannon, and the normally unwinnable QTEs that Jeanne uses in Hard/NSIC. This run didn't use JoyToKey though, only thing I took advantage of was being able to remap lock on to LT which feels far more natural to use while dodging.

Items are designed to smooth the difficulty curve of the game, but you're intended to eventually wean yourself off of them to go for high ranking medals (Bayo 2 ridiculously no longer penalizes item spam, and speedruns of Bayo 1 are often incredibly dull to watch as it's usually non-stop yellow lollipop spam). The skill ceiling in the game is quite high and there's a very large gap between just playing Bayonetta through to clear the game and really playing it at an advanced level. However, there are several things you can do to really up your game quickly, bread 'n butter techniques that really help you improve your game quickly, such as learning to Dodge Offset reliably or getting the basic combos down to rapidly output Wicked Weaves (PKP, PPKKK, PPPKKK). My go-to for this run was Kilgore on hands + SF on feet as Kilgore synergizes well with a fast weapon on feet, and you get tons of rockets if you charge the punches as well as kicks on PPPKKK. Shuraba is useful for PKP and Tetsuzanko spam on Fairness/Fearless cause they easily eat multihits, and you don't lose magic from activation accessories when using the charge attack, so you can refill magic during bosses by holding charge and then going for parries.

If you are still interested in the game I can always give you a live primer on basic techniques to help you improve; that's part of the reason why I started actively streaming, mainly because Bayonetta is a fantastic game that deserves more attention than just what was happening for a while there when Steam had its Sega sale where a bunch of folks played it through in Normal once then moved on before they'd really done more than scratch the surface of the combat system. It's got tons of nuance and depth to it - like I only just learned how to reliably do hand punishes which always seemed much more obtuse than the vastly easier to trigger launch punishes and kick punishes (PPPKKP with the last P connecting outside of Witch Time on a grounded enemy).
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Marc »

So I’ve left my PS4 at my Son’s place and lent his Xbone for the week. Realised once I’d gotten it home that I currently pay for the game pass for him, pretty good selection of stuff on there for the money. Spent last night playing:

Forza Horizon 4:
I played one of the first two on the X360, and while entertaining enough it didn’t really stand apart from any other open-world racer. This is simply amazing. First thing to note is that it looks utterly gorgeous. I’m playing on a bog-standard X0 on a non-UHD TV and it still looks twice as good as Driveclub or anything along the same lines, genuinely jaw-dropping especially on the hardware. I’m seriously eyeing up an XBX because of this, the partner already has a 4k TV and I can only begin to imagine how impressive it’s going to look. It also stands apart from the pack by virtue of being set over here – it makes a change to be racing through an idealised version of the English countryside rather than the same old Route ‘66/Desert/City settings of every other open-world racer I’ve ever played. Handling-wise there are a ton of assists to play around with - I’ve turned most of them off, which leaves it more involved than a pure arcade racer – but still not as full on as a proper sim. I’m in a Dodge Charger and throwing the back end around is great fun, but it can also be difficult to get the thing back in a straight line if you get too enthusiastic. The triggers help here – there’s a tremendous amount of feedback, the pad is a million miles away from the flaccid Dualshock. I’d say that anyone that enjoyed the older NFS or Project Gotham games really owes it to themselves to give this a go.

Celeste:
I read a re-review of Super Mario Deluxe on Kotaku (I know, I know) the other day which basically said something along the lines of ‘If you don’t have Celeste yet, buy that instead – it’s half the price and twice as good’. Now I’m no fan of the NSMB games, but if NSMD isn’t better than this I’m going to be very upset indeed. From the reviews, I was expecting something revelatory, something that played quite unlike any 2D platformer I’ve yet experienced, and what I got was a Super Meat-Boy clone with horrid pixel art. I must confess that I find these type of platformers about as entertaining as sticking hot needles underneath my fingernails, so I’m hardly the target audience, but even so I’m wondering if the reviews I read are even talking about the same game. I’m so glad I got to play this in advance, because I admit I was almost taken in and I know for a fact I’d have been gutted if I’d dropped £17 on this. The Messenger it is then. Or Mario Deluxe.

Resident Evil Revelations 2:
First chapter isn’t bad at all, definitely more entertaining than 5 & 6. Bit linear so far, none of the puzzles I’d expect from a Resi game, but an enjoyable enough way to pass an hour or so. Probably play through the rest of the chapters in preparation for the release of 2.

Zelda: A Link to the Past:
Funnily enough I only ever played through this once back in the day, and although I enjoyed it, it never really stuck in my mind. Playing it now, it’s far, far more my cup of tea than the 3D entries, OoT aside maybe. Makes BotW feel bloated and unwieldy.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BulletMagnet »

Started the original Nier last night - not too far in yet, but the basic impression so far is "has an odd charm, but plays kinda janky." Guess we'll see if the former outweighs the latter as things progress.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ghegs »

Sumez wrote:
Leviathan wrote:Don't know where to post this, but Oniken and Odallus are getting a limited physical release from Play Asia for Switch and PS4. Considered it, but the price on gog is much more appealing. Might buy them when they're next on sale. The games look interesting, and I'm looking forward to the upcoming Blazing Chrome from the same team.
Oniken is a really bad game that misunderstands everything that defines that genre.
I disagree there. I liked Oniken quite a bit, and the Unstoppable Edition fixes some of the issues that the first release had (randomized item drops being the main culprit) and it's a decent action-platformer.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

BulletMagnet wrote:Started the original Nier last night - not too far in yet, but the basic impression so far is "has an odd charm, but plays kinda janky." Guess we'll see if the former outweighs the latter as things progress.
That's pretty much Nier in a nutshell.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Leandro »

Sumez wrote: Is it me, or does this seem to be a tendency with a lot of Capcom brawlers?
Only one I remember right now is D&D SOM, which the final boss is just a repeat of the Dragon from the secret cave. But it's such a good final act I don't mind it in D&D.

But if you mean repeating any boss as a palette swap of a previous boss, yes, there's a lot in beat'em ups. I remember right now Caddilacs 2 Slices (or 3 with more players), and in Final Fight Abigail the super powered Andore.
Marc wrote: Zelda: A Link to the Past:
Funnily enough I only ever played through this once back in the day, and although I enjoyed it, it never really stuck in my mind. Playing it now, it’s far, far more my cup of tea than the 3D entries, OoT aside maybe. Makes BotW feel bloated and unwieldy.
I must replay this one sometime as when I finished it I didn't feel it was as good as people make it out to be.

The only 3D ones I played were OoT and TP, and to me both were more memorable than ALttP
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

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BareKnuckleRoo wrote: If you are still interested in the game I can always give you a live primer on basic techniques to help you improve; that's part of the reason why I started actively streaming, mainly because Bayonetta is a fantastic game that deserves more attention than just what was happening for a while there when Steam had its Sega sale where a bunch of folks played it through in Normal once then moved on before they'd really done more than scratch the surface of the combat system.
Ah yeah, i think KPK or the other way around using the dodge offset was my bread and butter that got me through on normal eventually.
Thanks for the offer but I won't be taking it for a good long while! I never finished MGR Revengeance and Nier Automata is piquing my interest as far as platinum goes.
I will return to Bayo one day though because the insult of stone award ringing in my ears will haunt me slightly.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by FinalBaton »

I remember liking Link's Awakening as much as ALttP back then, gotta replay the former (replayed the latter last year, was amazing)

Regarding ALttP : it's a really magical game, only thing I miss a bit compared to the first game is difficulty in combat. Also, I think in the japanese version they don't show the order of the dungeons on the map? unlike the US/EU version? wish all versions did that. takes a bit of the sense of exploration away. I still love that game to bits. Dungeons are fun and it doesn't have the rigid mold of "use dungeon item to defeat boss" for all the items : some are used in later dungeons, some items needed are found outside of dungeons, and some boss require being defeated by the sword.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

Leandro wrote:
Sumez wrote: Is it me, or does this seem to be a tendency with a lot of Capcom brawlers?
Only one I remember right now is D&D SOM, which the final boss is just a repeat of the Dragon from the secret cave. But it's such a good final act I don't mind it in D&D.
That was the one that stood out to me honestly. Didn't AvP pull the same thing though?
To be honest, I haven't reached the final boss in that many of their games :P And never on one credit.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

FinalBaton wrote: Regarding ALttP : it's a really magical game, only thing I miss a bit compared to the first game is difficulty in combat. Also, I think in the japanese version they don't show the order of the dungeons on the map? unlike the US/EU version? wish all versions did that. takes a bit of the sense of exploration away. I still love that game to bits. Dungeons are fun and it doesn't have the rigid mold of "use dungeon item to defeat boss" for all the items : some are used in later dungeons, some items needed are found outside of dungeons, and some boss require being defeated by the sword.
Yeah, ALttP definitely mellows out the formula a lot, but still nowhere as sanitized as the series would go on to be.

Oracle of Seasons I think is a good game, that finds a middle ground between the inventive, exploration- and puzzle-based Zelda, and the pure combat focus. It's nowhere near as challenging as the first game, but I think it does show its muscles once in a while, unlike ALttP.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BurlyHeart »

Picked up Wild Guns: Reloaded for the PS4 cheap (a physical copy is only 10 bucks here) and played a bit last night.

It's good! Refusing to credit feed through it for the moment, as it feels like a game I would want to try and 1cc. Doris seems to have the highest scores on the leaderboard, but she feels clunky to play with. Bullet and Clint are a lot of fun. One thing that struck me was the art - it's fantastic. Looking forward to spending more time with this one.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Marc »

FinalBaton wrote:I remember liking Link's Awakening as much as ALttP back then, gotta replay the former (replayed the latter last year, was amazing)

Regarding ALttP : it's a really magical game
Y'know that's the exact word that occurred to me last night, it really is. As I said, back in the day I finished it once then put it aside, no it doesn't hold anything like the same resonance for me that SMW, F-Zero, PilotWings and many more do. Restarting it with a fresh eye, I'm amazed at how bright, clean and timeless it looks (pretty ironic considering it was mentioned in a lot of reviews how plain it looked in comparison to other SNES games), and just how well designed the map is. There's no fat or bloat, everything is placed just so for a reason and there's always something to hold the attention. Also, how on earth I remember so much of the soundtrack is beyond me.

Think I'm gonna have to fire up the Cube and play OoT next.

As far Forza 4, it just keeps on giving. Started the Autumn season last night and found myself on a Rally circuit pissing down with rain, in a souped-up Lancia - the Sega Rally vibes were very strong, especially when I got to grips with the car - for a sim 'lite' it was still a very different experience than in the Charger I'd previously been in.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by FinalBaton »

Sumez wrote:Yeah, ALttP definitely mellows out the formula a lot, but still nowhere as sanitized as the series would go on to be.

Oracle of Seasons I think is a good game, that finds a middle ground between the inventive, exploration- and puzzle-based Zelda, and the pure combat focus. It's nowhere near as challenging as the first game, but I think it does show its muscles once in a while, unlike ALttP.
Never tried OoS, I might give it a go now

Have you played A Link Between Worlds? That one seems very decent
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

It's good, but probably the mildest Zelda out there. It's too bad, because the gameplay is super smooth and well designed, but the game gives you so much leeway you can run headfirst into every enemy you see and still make it through the game unscathed.

I had a lot of fun playing the game on a 3-heart challenge (ie. never pick up containers) on Hero Mode. Honestly, that should have been the game's default setting.

It also has a crazy lot of redundancy compared to ALttP which I think is a bit of waste of a solid product.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by FinalBaton »

Oh! damn that's too bad. it has such potential
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

It also doesn't feel like dick to play, the movement is nicer thanks to that analog stick + all directions.

Link has an actually decent slashing range now.
Sure it's easier but I know which one I'd rather replay.

It is i think, more open than Alttp thanks to item renting though don't quote me on that.
Honestly, that should have been the game's default setting.
Man.. your zeldo views are over 20 years out of date. The tide turned far too long ago.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by FinalBaton »

TBH Zelda 1's no-diagonals don't bother me too much. Take the fight with the room full of Darknuts : it's tense as fuck and really fun challenge. and is obviously built around these controls

sure, diagonals would be better. but it certainly doesn't kill the game for me

/controversial zeldo stance
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

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My controversial Zeldo stance is that I only really care about the first one, because it's the only one that feels like a classic adventure to me and lacks the cutesy vibe over the later ones. You're just totally alone in this shit world and everything hates you, as opposed to the constant returns to villages and happy little folks willing to help. Your only allies are enigmatic old bags living in caves, the dungeons are dark and creepy, and the entire hostile world is a mystery. You really lose that in the others. Sure, I like 'em, but the first stands out for this grumpy bastard.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I actually feel the same way about the first Zelda game. Part of its appeal is being lost and having to fend for yourself in an unforgiving world.

The second game plays quite differently but even it has a much more oppressive feel to its overworld and dungeon exploration compared to later games.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

Blinge wrote:
Honestly, that should have been the game's default setting.
Man.. your zeldo views are over 20 years out of date. The tide turned far too long ago.
Yeah, wanting games to be somewhat involving to play isn't really modern anymore. That's why we all end up on this forum.
Just trust me when I say playing the game like that makes it a ton more fun.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

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drauch wrote:My controversial Zeldo stance is that I only really care about the first one, because it's the only one that feels like a classic adventure to me and lacks the cutesy vibe over the later ones. You're just totally alone in this shit world and everything hates you, as opposed to the constant returns to villages and happy little folks willing to help. Your only allies are enigmatic old bags living in caves, the dungeons are dark and creepy, and the entire hostile world is a mystery. You really lose that in the others. Sure, I like 'em, but the first stands out for this grumpy bastard.
The awesome feeling of exploration of OG LoZ is unmatched, indeed. I adore the game for that reason
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

The original Legend of Zelda was open-world gaming before open-world gaming was a thing. And it truly is exploration - the in-game map is minimal and encourages you to make your own map for detailed locations of items. No minimap with detailed GO HERE arrows, no forced exploration, you can tackle the dungeons in non-linear order if you choose, etc.

My only real complaint with the game is how obnoxious bombing is - finding secrets with the candle is nearly as bad, but being infinite use, having to move off-screen to reuse the candle is not so bad (and there is an upgrade to the candle, albeit found late game). In dungeons, bombs aren't so problematic as you generally only have 3 walls per room to worry about, so the limited amount of bombs you get isn't totally stretched out thin, but in the overworld locating bombable areas on your own can be a bit tedious as there are a LOT of rock faces to bomb and remembering where you've tried bombing and haven't can be pretty painful. There's no infinite bomb item equivalent to the blue candle either, or a pickaxe or such, or any way like in Link's Awakening (hit wall with sword) to tell if a rock wall is bombable.

Oh well, it's still fun.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

Sumez wrote:
Man.. your zeldo views are over 20 years out of date. The tide turned far too long ago.
Yeah, wanting games to be somewhat involving to play isn't really modern anymore.
I meant specifically with regards to Zeldo series.. seems to me complaints that the series didn't stay like the first game are beating something that's been dead so long it's no longer a horse.

I'd never considered Roo's comment about the desolation of zelda 1 being the appeal. I had just assumed this was due to technical limitations rather than design. The miyamoto cave exploration story strikes me as more geared towards youthful adventurousness and joy than barely scraping by in a hostile world.
The desolate world idea does appeal though, no self-respecting fromsoft fan would say otherwise.

Having to bomb or flame everywhere is not my idea of a good time now, but hey, I didn't grow up with it.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:The original Legend of Zelda was open-world gaming before open-world gaming was a thing. And it truly is exploration - the in-game map is minimal and encourages you to make your own map for detailed locations of items. No minimap with detailed GO HERE arrows, no forced exploration, you can tackle the dungeons in non-linear order if you choose, etc.
Considering that Elite, Mercenary, and the Ultima series were inviting PC gamers to explore vast, nonlinear worlds years before Zelda, I wouldn't say open-world gaming wasn't a "thing" back then.
BareKnuckleRoo wrote:My only real complaint with the game is how obnoxious bombing is - finding secrets with the candle is nearly as bad, but being infinite use, having to move off-screen to reuse the candle is not so bad (and there is an upgrade to the candle, albeit found late game). In dungeons, bombs aren't so problematic as you generally only have 3 walls per room to worry about, so the limited amount of bombs you get isn't totally stretched out thin, but in the overworld locating bombable areas on your own can be a bit tedious as there are a LOT of rock faces to bomb and remembering where you've tried bombing and haven't can be pretty painful. There's no infinite bomb item equivalent to the blue candle either, or a pickaxe or such, or any way like in Link's Awakening (hit wall with sword) to tell if a rock wall is bombable.
Like Blinge, this and the occasionally obtuse hints are what ultimately turned me off the original Zelda. For as much flak as the original Metroid gets, at least it equips you with a ranged weapon and and a limitless supply of bombs. (On that note, I recommend the Japanese GBA release for anyone wishing to give the game a second chance, as it sports all the bells and whistles of the original FDS version without the lengthy loading times.)
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Mischief Maker »

Trying out a fresh run of my favorite ARPG, Victor Vran, on Hard mode.

Holy cow! VV was getting stale for me in my normal mode run, but this is something else! All 5 hexes are permanently turned on, and enemies have a universal stat buff. You really need to know what you're doing and have a clear build in mind or you're going to be eaten for lunch!

Fortunately with all this insanity going on the game showers you with way more XP and tons of free loot drops.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

Blinge wrote: I meant specifically with regards to Zeldo series.. seems to me complaints that the series didn't stay like the first game are beating something that's been dead so long it's no longer a horse.
That's really not what I'm doing though. Don't lump me into the crowd that glorify the first game. :P
I do think that game does a lot of interesting things, but honestly I'm not a big fan of it for various reasons - among those, the one you mentioned.

What I'm saying is entirely isolated to Link Between Worlds alone. It has amazingly well designed gameplay with satisfying combat. And it's all compromised by the fact that you have 20 hears of damage and equippable armor, meaning even the toughest enemies in the game will be able to punch you endlessly before even making a dent in you. You don't even need to fight them to survive, just tank them.
I'm talking about an approach that actually lets you appreciate the stuff that is designed well in the game. Give it a try.
WelshMegalodon wrote:all the bells and whistles of the original FDS version without the lengthy loading times.)
The loading times in FDS Metroid aren't really bad at all. :)
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

Sumez wrote:That's really not what I'm doing though. Don't lump me into the crowd that glorify the first game. :P
Alright I'll lump you into the crowd that glorify the 3rd :wink:
I'm talking about an approach that actually lets you appreciate the stuff that is designed well in the game. Give it a try.
Huh, I did 3hearts in OoT once so I guess I can do it in LbW too.
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1cc List - Youtube - You emptylock my heart
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