shmups.system11.org

There's been a lot of talk of 8-bit gaming in general in a couple of off-topic threads recently, and it's gotten me all misty-eyed. Hooked up the C64 and Spectrum for a couple of nights to re-visit some of my faves from yesteryear. Quite an experience. So I'm wondering first of all, what 8-bit titles you still play and think hold up just as well today, and secondly, what games you've revisited only to have your fond memories tarnished? For me, it's the following:

Wizball (C64): I love it. Still a totally unique, experience that's huge fun to play. Visuals still look stylish in the extereme, the core of the game is hugely playable, and the bonus 'filth raid' levels a riot.

Paradroid (C64): It's a lot simpler than I remember, but the way the robot-swapping element has still to be bettered, it's fast, smooth, and a hell of a challenge.

Impossible Mission (C64): A cast-iron classic IMO. Simple, straightforward, and a bitch to master. Again, I don't think the visuals have dated at all, it's got the most atmospheric sound FX I ever heard on an 8-bit game, and it controls beautifully.

I-Ball 2 (Spec): Wasn't too keen on the first, a middling vertical shmup if I remember rightly, but the second was one of the most fiendish platform games ever released on the Speccy. Rock hard, and initially a swine to control, but one of those games that never gets frustrating.

Super Off-Road (C64): Still my favorite version for some reason, mainly because I'm good enough at this one that I can play for hours on one credit. These sort of racers rule, and this is one of the best versions of one of the best coin-op's of it's type.

Unfortunately, I also played q few duds:

Sanxion (C64): Shit, I used to like this? It now feels slow, badly designed, and boring to play.

Last Ninja 1 & 2 (Spec/C64): And I liked these because? Obscure puzzles, tedious combat, stilted movement... there are rumours of an update, for once it can't turn out any worse than these now play.

IO (C64): Shit, this is hard. I like a challenge but... not to this extent. A slow ship, little firepower, and rock-hard enemies render this no fun at all. Think there was another game along these lines that I used to love called Phobia, but after this I think I'll give it a miss.

So I'm gonna leave the machines set up for the next few days and try some more stuff out. Christ those load times now seem like an utter joke. Makes my irritation at Xbox Tron's loading times seem laughable. So yeah, I'd like to know what anyone's been playing from the 8-bit era recently, and what you (really, truthfully) thought of it

There's quite a bit of difference between C64 (and Spectrum) and PC Engine, which is my only 8-bit retro machine. Well, only retro machine period. And I'm playing the games for the first time in my life, so I don't have any memories to tarnish.

If it still counts I've been playing Heavy Unit and Rayxanber III lately. While those shmups aren't to everyone's taste, nobody can deny the awesome power of...Ninja Gaiden.

I don't tend to revisit as often as I'd like. Here are a few I have done recently-ish.

Bloody Wolf (PCE): Still great, still great music, I didn't remember how much slowdown it has though!

Hawkeye (C64): Still fun, run left and right collecting items while jumping and shooting.

Delta (C64): Still one of the best soundtracks ever in a shmup, and still hypnotic to watch.

The Lone Raider (Atari 800): I don't think I appreciated how good this is, back in the day.

Manic Miner (Spectrum): Still great too. Harder than I remember!

Fort Apocalypse (Atari 800): Another great game that still holds up well today.

When I fire up my C64 every now and then, I always come back to the same few games that will always be classics to me:

Hypaball - There is just something cool as hell about flying on a space pack with a ball and firing it as hard as possible at a sliding pole. Plus, the techno music SID is just flat out cool. Best audio I ever heard in a 64 game.

Jumpman - Epyx was truly one of the greatest companies of all time. Everything they touched was usually gold and this is the epitome of all that is right with Epyx and the 64.

Bounty Bob Strikes Back - Took the 2049er levels to another world. Awesome platoforming, cool tools and elevators to get around. Just cool.

Space Taxi - Muse was another of the 64 supporters that could do no wrong. It is hard to tell which is a better game from them. I mean, the Wolfenstein's are simply awesome, but Space Taxi had something special about it. The space taxi truly had the anti-gravitity physics down. And, of course, the speech just perked you right up. Of course, Muse was famous for its speech, as they used the grizzled voice in all their games.

All time favorite 8-Bit titles...besides Turbo-16/PC-Engine? (I love almost everything on the Turbo)
Contra 1&2, and Double Dragon. Speaking of credits...I've mastered these titles to where I could 1CC em.

I used to have a C-64, but I got rid of it in the late 80's. I remember playing and liking the following though...
Pit Stop 2
Gradius
Bards Tale
Lords of Conquest
Defenders of the Crown
Karate Champ
Gunship
Infiltrator
Airborne Ranger
F-15 Strike Eagle
etc.

I used to be heavily into flight sims back then.

Forgot about that. One of the C64 best, will have to have a pop at that tonight.

[/b]Bloodflowers said:

Quote:

Delta (C64): Still one of the best soundtracks ever in a shmup, and still hypnotic to watch.

I 1cc'd this back in the day, but on re-visiting it I found it hard as hell, cheap and generally frustrating to play. The soundtrack is tops though.

Quote:

Manic Miner (Spectrum): Still great too. Harder than I remember!

An all-time classic, after playing the mobile version over Xmas, it convinced me to go back to the original and I spent the best part of a full day hammering at the Spectrum version. Got as far as round 18 (or 19?) on one life (Solar Power Generator), but couldn't find a way past that.

Any Sentinel fans on this board? Now that's the sort of comcept that might never get past the starting blocks these days. Still maddeingly addictive, sends me into a coma-like trance every time I play it. Prolly only go back to it once a year, but when I do it's for 5-6 hours at a time.

I still play IO today if I feel like getting my arse handed.
I used to get to the last boss quite frequently back in the day, but today I'm happy when see even the first one. It's the ultimate memorization shmup, IMO. You really have to learn the stages, yet you still have to react to the occasional random enemy. It's very hard (lose a life and with it your extra weapons and you're toast), but very good. The bosses can be tackled more intuitively, but the stages are all about memorizing where to be at a given time. And the graphics still amaze me. Stunningly beautiful.

I still play Katakis occasionally. Having played many harder shmups over the years it always feels like coming back to an old friend and I can usually reach stage 12 even if I'm out of practice. Of course the bosses are ridiculous, there's no strategy at all involved, but the game means always a lot of fun when I fire it up.

The C64 R-Type is another game I like to play now and then. It contains so many changes to the original that it's quite a different experience. (And it's much easier than every other version.)

The Gradius conversion is also very nice. It's cool how they managed to squeeze the whole game (plus one bonus stage) into 64K.

I recently discovered a shmup called Scorpius, which I really dig. It has some great level design and some ideas in it which were quite a bit ahead of its time. Unfortunately, it suffers from some glitches and technical difficulties and it's very short (only 4 levels, just like IO, but a lot easier so the lastability is not as high). I'll do a review of it for shmups.com when I find the time.

And I totally loved The Bard's Tale III, although I never want to play it again (only thinking of the last battle nearly makes me cry).

Is it anything like the GB version of R-Type? That one is also a different experience from the original, but still very good IMO.

I need to get a C64. It has some sweet shmups and a decent version of Alcon.

Also, "Beyond Forbidden Forest" (C-64) was awesome. That game had a pretty creepy atmosphere.

I had the original Forbidden Forest for the Atari 800 and I loved that game. Interesting how this game came out even before Alone in the Dark and Resident Evil.

Well, here in Brazil, in the 80s , the most popular 8bits computer was the MSX, not the Speccy (The C64 never reached here, AFAIK).

So, I was lucky to have the best 8 bits computer ever (Oldskool computer wars RULEZ!)

Now I don't know if it makes any sense posting my MSX favourites games, because A) I've done this a dozen of times , and B) Most people don't know half of those games anyway

I am very fond of this era. There are lots of great games from the 80s.

The C64 version of R-Type differs about as much from the original than the GameBoy version, but in different places.

D'oh, forgot about Alcon/Slap Fight. Very good game, though not really close to the arcade original. The same is true for C64 Terra Cresta, btw. (C64 Terra Cresta is in fact even harder than the arcade version.)

Herr Schatten wrote:


Did you ever play the original version? Before the game was released, C&VG mag gave out a bright yellow cassette with demo's of Spectrum and C64 R-Type on there. The C64 version on that tape was completely different to the Rainbow Arts version that was eventually released. There was no sound on there, but (do bear in mind I haven't seen this version since I played this demo some, what, 20 years ago? Sheeeit!) I'm sure I remember it being closer to the coin-op both graphically and gameplay-wise. Don't know who developed it or why it was scrapped, would love to know if it was ever finished or still exists anywhere.




The C64 version was where it was at though. Damn, that soundtrack was good. Another game that oozed atmosphere, though I'm sure the game was pretty average, was Caverns of Khafka. And thou Boulderdash games rocked as well.

I love Boulderdash games too. I like how Boulderdash EX GBA has a port of the original in it. That Mickey Mouse Racing GBC game had a cool clone of Boulderdash in it. I have the NES one too.

A few NES classics which rarely get any love:

1943, Alien Syndrome, Don Doko Don 2, Ice Hockey, Ike Ike! Nekketsu Hockey Bu, Little Samson

Duds...hmm. Zelda? That game has always sucked. Not just trolling here, I've never understood the praise. Bad Dudes vs. DragonNinja is also sadly not half as badass as the title would lead you to believe.

Some of my favorite C64 games:

Mail Order Monsters - I don't have a C64 anymore, but I like this game so much that I still have the original disk, manual, and packaging. It has a battle system like Archon (it was made by the same folks), but the rest of the game is quite different. Build up your stable of monsters and enter them in competitions! Beats the hell out of Pokemon.

Modem Wars - Hell yeah! An online, player vs player RTS game... this game was years ahead of its time!

One game I used to play a lot on the C64 was Contra. I enjoyed it pretty well back then, although I never beat it. Now when I play the game, all I can think about is what a terrible port it is.

I'm a big fan of Flying Warriors, as the 2nd (IIRC) Hiryuu no Ken game came to be changed and known as in the US.

Was the first one Flying Dragon? I liked that game quite a bit.

I used to have the Gauntlet port for Atari 800 XL. I used to like it, but after playing it again, it sucks compared to other ports. It's very choppy and plays a bit slow. The Midway Arcade Treasures version is much better.

Yup. Did you play the identically named N64 3D fighter (the only other game in the series to be released in the US)? You might like it, although it has absolutely nothing to do with the other games.

I haven't played it, but I think I might give it a try. I used to play games at Aladdin's Castle all the time in the 80s before it turned into a Tilt. I loved playing Ninjawarriors, Pac Land, Mappy, Millipede, Galaga, Galaga 3, and many other arcade games.

This thread has got me dredging the ol' memory banks! The speccy days were some of the happiest times of my life. My first computer was a spectrum 128k+2 and it was literally my first foray into the world of videogames.

So many games that i remember but these were some of my faves:

Target Renegade - the original was great but with scrolling levels and a two-player mode this was the tops.

Emlyn Hughes Soccer - the most realistic footy game of its generation(i'm sure Match day 2 fans will disagree!). Its match mechanics still hold up today.

Exolon - Hewson made some classics for the 8-bits and this was a scrolling blaster with big detailed sprites and (for the speccy) some brightly coloured graphics.

Cybernoid 1+2 - Ditto above but substituting a spaceman for a ship. Again, pushed the humble speccy to the limit in terms of graphics, sounds and gameplay.

Colin the Cleaner - This came free with my speccy! It was a sort of manic miner clone but i remember playing this one to absolute death.

Atic Atac - Top-view one-room-at-a-time romp from ultimate. Don't remember too much about gameplay but i played this loads.

Auf Wiedersehen Monty - Class platformer, the kind of game that the speccy excelled in if done right. There were loads of Monty games but this one sticks in my head because i typed in my first 'poke'(cheat) for monty which gave me invincibility! I'm about as computer-literate now as i was then.

Treasure Island Dizzy - Again, ther were loads of Dizzy titles(in fact, Codemasters are rumoured to be bringing the dome-headed one back to life on a current gen mahine!) but this is the one that i remember most. It had wicked music too. I can still hum it...

Geez, i could go on all night! Some of the best games i've ever played were on the speccy, i just wish that i had'nt sold them all around 89-ish to fund the purchase of a spanking new Mega Drive...

Auf Widersehen Monty is the best game featuring Monty IMO. The music also is AWESOME, it's among my personal top-10 best videogame music ever .

Did you ever finished the game with invecibility, Adam? Even then, the game still would take a couple of hours to finish

All the games below are Spectrum games, though I played them on MSX (Always 100% identical ports)

I loved Astro Marine Corps. I remember being one of the first games I ever finished without using any kind of cheat. I also can't remember any Speccy game with better graphics than this one (It also had some amazing music).

Bounder, from Gremlin, also took a lot of time from me. One of the most frustrating games ever, but I always found it to be lots of fun. Later I found a sequel for it on the C64, called Rebounder , which is even better.

There were some GREAT games from a spanish developed named "Topo Soft". They did some great games - Stardust (cool, different shmup), Colt 36, Rock 'n' Roller, Madmix 1 & 2, Titanic, Silent Shadow (GREAT shmup ), Desperado, Ice Breaker (Anoter shmup), and a few others... all those games are pretty good, and they all had AMAZING music by a guy who called himself "Gominolas". This guy made some of the greatest pieces of gaming music in all history.

Oi, I really hate that one. Corniness to the max! It had nothin to do with the Nekketsu high school kids, either.

Favorite underrated NES classics:

Jackie Chan Action Kung Fu, Bucky O'Hare: These are the two greatest platformers the NES has to offer, IMO, outside of the Mario games. Jackie Chan Action Kung Fu is beautiful in every aspect, and Bucky O'Hare just has that classic Konami charm.

Metal Storm -- Incredible Irem classic where the gravity could be changed at the whim of the player. Simply amazing game, it's hard to categorize it into just one genre.

Journey to Silius: Really solid run 'n gunner with amazing music that rivals the tracks in the Mega Man games, seriously. Check out more info about the game and how it was originally supposed to be a Terminator game: http://www.neszone.net/shrines/silius/ Sigh, it would have been an awesome Terminator game, too.

Clash at Demonhead -- pretty ugly game but chock-full of anime styled humor and art. It tries hard to be Mega Man, but ends up a wee bit short.

Code Name: Viper -- Like an even better version of Golgo 13: Top Secret Episode. Really great game that is incredibly similar to the Rolling Thunder series; main character's a badass.

Power Blade series -- These games are incredibly akin to the Mega Man series, but have an Arnie look-a-like as the main character and a boomerang as the main weapon..trust me, it's a LOT better and funner than what I made it sound to be. Definitely pick it up if you see 1 or 2, since they are getting pretty rare nowadays.

Shadow of the Ninja -- Solid ninja action from Natsume, before they started making farming sims. Harvest Moon my ass, gimme Shadow of the Ninja 2, or better yet, a sequel to...

Shatterhand -- Yes, this game rocks so much face it isn't funny. Definitely worthy of a sequel, true shame we never saw one on the SNES. I was way happy when I saw a certain Brazilian sporting the title as his username

Little Nemo: The Dream Master -- Really cool platformer based on the turn of the century comic book (it also was a movie in the early 90s), you can morph into different dream creatures if you walk into them. Really nice and feel-good game.

MC Kids -- NEED I SAY MORE.



here's a site with 99% of every US box art for the NES if anyone's interested:
http://atarihq.com/tsr/nes/nesgallery.html

Yeah, Metal Storm is the shit, no argument there.

Nice list of NES gems there. Shadow of the Ninja and Shatterhand don't get anywhere near the attention they deserve, IMHO.

Another good one would be Vice: Project Doom. This game gives Ninja Gaiden a run for its money with challenging action scenes, multiple gameplay styles, and cool cutscenes.

Air Fortress has always been one of my favorite NES games. Easy, but so damn fun.

My mother and I were infatuated with Jumpman and Jumpman Jr. on the C64...really great games.

Other games I remember playing and loving on my dad's C64 included BoulderDash, Karateka, Mission Impossible (Stay awhile...STAY FOREVER!!!), Gorf, and way too many to remember.

Try the first Zillion for SMS. It's an infiltration mission and quite an unique game for the SMS. I'd say it's the closest to MG on a Sega System.

Battletoads (NES)

this game is so badass. total memorization, totally frustrating, totally awesome. i was able to beat it last year. it took a LOT of practice. i could 1CC it now if i wanted to. the last boss was such a wimp! but the level before it was brutal. what a game. it just plays so perfectly, and the levels are so varied and creative that it'll never get old.

Guerilla War (NES)

i seriously wish there were more games like this. what a game. i've made it to the last level on one credit but i haven't been able to do it again lately. i used to just think of it as "that game you continue forever on and beat in 20 minutes" but if you go for score/1CC it turns into a huge epic battle for survival. it's LONG, too. at least it sure seems like it. i think it might take over an hour. so when you die and have to start over it SUCKS. but man it's a blast.

Metal Storm (NES)

man i wish i had more time to put into this one. the gravity thing really is a lot of fun, and the graphics and sound are top notch on this one. it's really methodical, and a lot of fun. i can't makeit too far, though

EDIT
i didn't see that someone else mentioned Metal Storm! right on! that game rocks. i'll have to play it some more when i have more time in the summer. it really IS hard to classify what kind of game it is. kind of reminds me of Ikaruga for some reason. i really like that 3rd boss, even though i can't beat him yet


Double Dragon 3 (NES)

WTF i STILL can;t get past the 1st level on this damn game!!! WHY IS IT SO HARD!? am i doing something wrong!? seriously, i can't do a damn thing on this game. i thought i just sucked when i played it when i was little, but i still suck at it. ive never even SEEN anybody beat the first level. me and my friend tried it and got to the boss but we never could do it. we must be doing something wrong.

Yes, I think R-Type is the game I played the most versions of. I played arcade, PCE, SMS, Amiga, Atari ST, C64, GameBoy, Spectrum and Amstrad CPC versions of it. The Amstrad CPC version is awful and the Atari ST version is flawed because of choppy scrolling, but the other ones are all great fun, although some of them are not really close to the arcade original.

That story about this demo version of C64 R-Type sounds intrigueing. I'd love to play it sometimes. How much of the game was in it (how many levels, etc.)?