shmups.system11.org

Oh yes. The country decided they didn't want Maggie 2.0. They obviously need firearms. Of course!

Makes perfect sense.

I don't care what they do over there, I'm only talking about the US because I live here and it's what I know. I'm not sure why you keep bringing the UK into this.

ETA:



I was thinking more about someone like you, who (very rightly!) despises the thought of lethal violence. There has to be a line at some point where you're willing to actually fight back, and that means offering material support to those perpetrating some of that violence at the very least. I'm not trying to say we're there yet, or even that we'll get there (at least in our lifetimes), but it's worth thinking about when discussing gun control in the US.

I've certainly wondered where exactly my personal "line" is when it comes to this sort of thing, and it's not a pleasant thought experiment to conduct, I can tell you that; the idealist in me wants to believe that being willing to endure injury or death while steadfastly refusing to take up the proverbial sword might make someone on the other side genuinely reconsider what he and his adopted movement are doing, but as I said before as time goes on the budding authoritarians (and their "moderate" enablers) among us seem to become less and less prone to feeling doubt, let alone shame, about anything, and as others have noted, have thus turned the notion of "don't lower yourself to their level" from a strength into a frustratingly exploitable weakness.

I beg to differ on what you know. You're trying to move goalposts and shuffle away because you know other people are not living in peril without guns.

Righties are also "fighting back" because of shit that's none of their fucking business. Stuff like a gay bar or someone getting elected that you didn't like. Or, are you talking about bombing the darkies when Black Wall.Street got too big for its britches? That kind of "fighting back"?

People are going to fight back because of the restroom arrangements? What's the issue? BryanM put it better than me, but the point stands.

Violence runs the world and it always has. Peace is imposed from the point of a sword. Those without power or the inclination to fight are forever the victims of those who have them. Manners are a product of consequences.

And no, I'm not saying the world should be that way or that it should be even more violent than it is, hail caesar etc etc. I'm just saying, what we have now is a system predicated upon violence at almost every level. That is what civilization is. You force people to be nice and if they aren't nice then you inflict violence upon them. We do it with prison and fines now, but the threat is always there. Resist and be beaten. Shut up, hands behind your back or eat this taser.

Without guns, the citizenry will have to accept whatever those above them dictate. At least if they own guns, citizens do have the option, however unwise, of responding "lol no" when told to do something heinous.

"But the military has tanks/jets/nukes."

None of which they can really use on their own populace without destroying their society. In America, we've seen about the limits of how much weaponry cops can bring to bear on their own citizens. I've yet to witness a swat team launch a fucking missile into some dude's house. Or roll a tank over a crowd.

Those with power in America are very afraid of gun-owning citizens. Not so much because of the paltry power of those firearms, but because of what they represent. A body of people who can decide "hey, fuck this social contract, we're getting robbed" and violently rebel against it. Disarmed, the populace can only whine to the courts impotently when they are wronged.

And, you comfortably relax in the safety of society everyday and always have. Move out. Go where there is no law. Go to Mexico. Bye. You can finally be free of the shackles. You can also live a very short violent life. Bye.

Oh, lemme guess. You want to stay here. And, you'll "tolerate* society as long as it never fucking inconveniences.you--while you insolently suck at the tit of all the benefits: pointing your gun around and reminding everyone else that rules only apply when you find them convenient.

I don't understand anything you said after this, but the key difference is that everyone ALREADY HAS the fucking guns here. The two situations aren't comparable. There are a bunch of crazy fucking would-be fascists in my country right now armed to the teeth who would GLEEFULLY murder everyone like me if they thought they could get away with it (and some do it anyway and don't care if they get caught). If you can't understand that then I can't imagine our dialogue will be very productive.

You're projecting. I have no desire to murder anyone. That's how your mind works.

And, how could any dialogue be productive? You don't give a shit about reason. You just used the fact that we have guns as the reason we shouldn't change. What you said makes no sense. What in the actual fuck does that even mean?

Unless you identify as a fascist, I don't see how you could think I was projecting anything on you.

But since you don't seem to fucking get it, here's an example from LAST FUCKING WEEK. As long as these fascists are out here gunning for us queers I'm staying armed.

Oh goodie. An arms race. What could go wrong?

Something to lighten the mood around here.

Aamon's work always reminds me of dees, but even more nightmarish. Just something about having their own words in their own voice adds a horrible, ugly soul to everything. It's like rotten festering crawling poop entering your ears and the language processor of your brain, as well as your eyes...

...

I totally get why I'm on board the City Pop resurgence phase. Hell, the Steamed Hams resurgence, too.

I'd put more stock in this if the people who own most of the guns in this country weren't so easily convinced by those in power to keep said guns constantly trained on their fellow citizens instead of them; as MM's signature puts it, watch out, Those People want a piece of your cookie!

Again, I think you underestimate just how many liberals and actual leftists own guns. There are a LOT of us, we're just not as loud and obnoxious about it! The american populace is so heavily armed, any actual attempt at a police state would be a total disaster. They couldn't even handle a bunch of stupid drunk rednecks storming the capitol, you really think they'd have any chance at stamping out a coordinated and determined armed resistance? Shit, a bunch of random angry protestors burned an entire police precinct in my city down a couple years back and the cops had to call in the national guard for help because they suck so bad.

I don't have any particular grounds to dispute your larger point - my issue is with Sima's suggestion that people with guns are somehow predisposed to aim at the right targets - but it does bear repeating that the authorities' response to the January 6th riot was strikingly different than its deployment against, in particular, previous DC-based BLM protests.

I'm not the first to say it, but isn't it bizarre that nobody on the right is calling out Trump for hanging out with a booger-eating literal neo-nazi?

I don't think he'll lose a single republican vote over it.

I see China is in the news. Question for you, what happens to the world if the idealistic dream came to be? What if they decended into chaos and started fighting for democracy? It won't happen, but just take a moment to really think about it.

See the problem?

I'm always skeptical of this argument when it comes from the right; the idea that groups of civilian irregulars with semi automatics are going to take down the establishment of the most militarized country on Earth is kinda far-fetched.



On the other hand, if I were gay and in the US right now, I'd have functioning mockups of my entire Destiny 2 arsenal under my bed.



So you do you.

Sure, the cops have military-grade firepower, but they still have to go home to their families at some point. Families that live in the same neighborhoods as the enemy, that use the same infrastructure as the enemy. An enemy that doesn't wear uniforms, can look like anyone, and can easily acquire and conceal high-powered weapons.

The ACTUAL military just spent 2 decades getting their asses kicked by random farmers and herders armed with decrepit old hand-me-downs, despite having more and better gear than the police. Cops really don't want that kinda smoke.

Most of their military equipment is shit they don't dare use against their own people. Where does the food come from that the army eats? Where do the parts come from that they use? What banks do they store their paycheck cash in? What cars do they buy when they're off-duty? What supply grid do they rely on, just the same as everyone else in the country?

The loss to infrastructure if US citizens were killed in mass military actions would be crippling.

The Army would be absolutely batshit insane to start bombing their own stuff. About the worst any government can do is some Tiananmen Square type shit. Your average Moist Nugget 7.62x54 can knock a soldier flat on their ass even with the best body armor. Might not kill, but it'll still probably incapacitate. I'm talking about a $200 bolt-action any old Fudd can buy in the USA. To say nothing of all the semi-auto rifles out there. Of course, a civilian militia can't match a standard military for firepower. But they can match it in the sense that the standard military weapons (tank shells, bombs, mortars, battleships, fighter jets, missiles) are not usable. You can't use mortars against your local Wal-Mart, bro. Anti-personnel weapons are really the only option when fighting your own populace. Even then, the military would probably rather try to use less-lethal methods first.

The cops have body armor, semi-auto firearms and some fully auto. Civilians have access to body armor and semi-auto firearms. It's not as big as gap as you might think. The army can't just roll up with LMG emplacements and start yelling "get some."

My own city had 100+ days of solid rioting a year or two ago, during which time the police were totally helpless to do anything. Those rioters didn't even have guns at all. They had umbrellas, bricks and maybe some sticks. Police got BTFO nightly. Seattle had to establish a DMZ because they kept getting bodied so hard.

Assuming that everyone and their grandma agreed to throw themselves at the military in an organized, unified, coordinated effort. Which, considering how often we are at each other's throats, may be just slightly difficult.

I'm rolling laughing at the Oath Keepers trial. Maybe we shouldn't be handing out so many guns. Have you heard some of the rubbish these people believe? We're going to get locked into an arms race with these people? Is that wise?

How could any functioning human being honestly believe that China controls Joe Biden and they were going to hand control of the United States to... the UN?



How does that even work? Is Biden a robot? Why the UN? Does the UN regularly take the reigns of governments after Chinese robots make them president? I didn't even realize the president had the power to unilaterally turn the nation over to the UN. This can't possibly be serious, can it?

Don't be absurd.

He's in a secret coma following a massive stroke, but was replaced by Arthur Roberts who played Braden, the evil ninja in the 1984 film Revenge of the Ninja. Everybody knows that.



Don't you even read Real Raw News?

This is my president!

The problem is that there is no arms race. They already have all the guns, and they're quite vocal about dying before giving them up. You already suggested violence doesn't work for you as a solution, so what do you suggest?

The only option is through the channels we have. We have to keep grinding for votes and hope it works. You're right about my red lines.

We're staring down decades of work. It's in the same general arena as health care reform, but worse. We're so invested and dug in to the status quo, it will take a long time to dig out.

I get that, but I don't want to dig in any deeper--and I can't believe we are doing just that (every single moment). The gun humpers and gun industry know that "we" are winning the long game if the country turns the tide on gun proliferation and growth. They really want you to get into the arms race. What you do is obviously your own value decision, but the first step back from this mess is: to slow (and eventually reverse) the growth of guns. The gun humpers are right, it would happen in phases and it would slowly erode their "right" to carry around many specific weapons (hand guns and assault rifles) that are only good for one thing: taking other human lives.

And, I won't lie to you; I don't believe in militia. We have a standing army and modern warfare passed up the capabilities of an average person with a gun long ago.

That's fair, but how do you propose to disarm millions of people even if you do manage to get enough votes for real gun reform? Most rural police forces already refuse to enforce even the most basic and common sense gun laws. If you're sticking to the channels we have, the regular military is right out; they're not allowed to deploy on US soil. You're left with the National Guard, who are mostly made up of a bunch of the very same idiots you'd be wanting them to disarm.

And realistically, there's a not-insignificant number of people who would absolutely shoot it out if someone came to disarm them. There's gonna be violence any way you look at it.

Maybe they won't listen. Maybe only old age and entropy will disarm them. We aren't immortal. Some attitudes die alongside generations. That's why the gun humpers work so hard; they know they need young people to buy their bullshit and keep it alive.

In the meantime, we need to start the process of slowing further proliferation--and pass more restrictions on certain weapons whenever possible.

We can't send an army of people out to snatch guns. That's madness. That's why I use terms like "grinding votes" and "the long game". We can curb further sales and we can start reshaping attitudes. Laws should target manufacturing and sales. It's a long game.

That seems reasonable! Until then, I'm staying armed, because these crazies aren't gonna stop coming for us just because they get outvoted.

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