Prelude to the Apocalypse

[o.pwuaioc]

And at the same time where I agree with that half of Washington DC, I also agree with the other half that says it's a mental health issue afflicting this country like the recent school shooting in Texas. Where I don't agree with either side is how they both seemingly can't see that the problem revolves around both aspects (The ease of acquiring a firearm and America's mental health crisis), along with many other problems like poverty.

Which side votes in favor of expanding mental health services? Hint: Not Republicans. You gotta keep going along this logic, not stop at step 2.

[Atariboy]

I've not personally examined anything about that to actually know.

What I do know is that the Republican party is laying the blame on these tragedies on mental health. And as I said, I agree with that at least in part. I just don't think it's the only thing that needs to be addressed.

And again, if Republicans aren't supportive of measures to support access to mental health services and quality of care, then I simply don't agree with you [Edit: I meant to say "I don't agree with them"]. You can't go through life thinking one side of America's political coin has all the answers and the other half are monsters.

Not only is it not true, but you're then part of the problem that today has created a divided America politically and socially, which isn't doing anyone any good.

[o.pwuaioc]

I've not personally examined anything about that to actually know.

What I do know is that the Republican party is laying the blame on these tragedies on mental health. And as I said, I agree with that at least in part. I just don't think it's the only thing that needs to be addressed.

And again, if Republicans aren't supportive of measures to support access to mental health services and quality of care, then I simply don't agree with you. You can't go through life thinking one side of America's political coin has all the answers and the other half are monsters.

Not only is it not true, but you're then part of the problem that today has created a divided America politically and socially, which isn't doing anyone any good.

I never said that the Democrats have all the answers, but it's incumbent upon you to show that Republicans have any. I haven't seen a good idea come out of them since Obama was elected and the Tea Party openly spouted racist banners.

I mean, when Republican rallies have Nazi insignia, how could they not be monsters? Any good Republican has now left for the shadows.

The actual problem is people who aren't well informed and have their head stuck in the "both sides!" sand.

[Atariboy]

I fixed a typo with my earlier post, highlighting in bold my correction.

As for your last post, I'm not here as the public apologist of the Republican party nor as their cheerleader. It's up to each of us to look within ourselves, do some research, and vote how we best see fit.

You're writing off half of America and lumping them together, seemingly with little to no investigation. Not only is that a shame, but I stand by what I said about it being wrong and that attitude being what's killing America today.

You're not looking before you're labeling half the country as a lost cause. There's plenty of problem children in this country on both sides of the fence. One half of the country doesn't have a monopoly on the nutcases.

For an example of a Republican introduced measure that I believe recently passed Congress and which is an issue important to many Americans and Canadians in the region, check out "H.R.6506 - St. Lawrence River and Great Lakes Waterways Protection Act."

Why you don't think anything of value ever receives the vote of a Republican and similar nonsense just speaks about you as a person rather than the value of anyone that has ever voted for a Republican, is registered as a Republican, etc.

[o.pwuaioc]

You're writing off half of America and lumping them together, seemingly with little to no investigation.

Guy, you have no idea anything about me. You've never met me, you've only interacting with me on two posts. I'll repeat what I said: people who have their head in the sand, the ignorant "both sides!" pretentious bunch, that are the worst.

Ain't no one in this thread EVER said that Democrats didn't have nutcases. When did I say half the country is a lost cause? But go on, playa. Pretend you know all that you know. Go on making these sweeping announcements if it makes you feel superior. That's better than actually engaging with people on real issues!

Oh, and while you're at it, you might want to acquaint yourself with the word "hyperbole." It's a neat little gem.

[o.pwuaioc]

You're writing off half of America and lumping them together, seemingly with little to no investigation.

Guy, you have no idea anything about me. You've never met me, you've only interacting with me on two posts. I'll repeat what I said: people who have their head in the sand, the ignorant "both sides!" pretentious bunch, that are the worst.

Ain't no one in this thread EVER said that Democrats didn't have nutcases. When did I say half the country is a lost cause? When did anyone say every registered Republican is a lost cause? I said the good ones been relegated to the shadows. Liz Cheney is a pariah for daring to say Trump lost the election.

But go on, playa. Pretend you know all that you know. Go on making these sweeping announcements if it makes you feel superior. That's better than actually engaging with people on real issues!

Oh, and while you're at it, you might want to acquaint yourself with the word "hyperbole." It's a neat little gem.

And for someone who talks about "investigation," you sure did move fast to claim these shootings are all about "mental health" without having investigated at all which "side" (your highly loaded word, mind you) cuts mental health services and which promotes them. Probably want to look up "hypocrisy" while you're in the hyp- section. It should be just a few pages later.

[orange808]

Yeah. Fuck negotiating.

Not one more fucking inch. Not with my approval.

Fuck your "negotiate and compromise" bullshit. Fuck your fake "I'm the adult" game. It's a trap. I'm not stupid.

All the left gets out of "compromise" is more of the right wing agenda, because the right wing made their minds up to stand firm long ago. This is a right wing invention.

So, you started it, righty. No. Fuck your "triangulation" game. I'm done with that shit.

Not one inch. No negotiating.

[orange808]

Don't think your little dumb remark about killing kids flew past me, either.

The ones that want to abandon babies that were born with disabilities or the wrong color are Republicans. Same thing with health care. Our current legislatures are right wing and they run an intentionally inefficient health system for money while (simultaneously) killing for money. It's a financial decision. That's a defacto fucking "death panel".

So, the baby killers and "death panels" are Republican right wing institutions. And, you have the nerve to say it's the left.

[BulletMagnet]

Okay. For starters:

Have you actually went and looked?

Sorry, you don't get to poke your head into a thread, drop a massive bomb that nobody else has ever heard of, and then act like it's somebody else's responsibility to make your actual argument for you: if you really think this is something important that people ought to be informed about, as opposed to a bile-drenched bumper sticker to paint people who don't agree with your position as ruthless monsters, act like it.

I'm haunted enough by things like that which I read years ago and powerless to change this world. So I'm not going to go digging when I do my best to avoid reading or listening to anything on this subject.

...and that goes double when your excuse for not bothering to provide so much as a starting point for anyone who wants to know more is that it would trigger you.

Type in post birth abortion into Google and I imagine you'll find plenty about it, including references to probably what I read in a medical journal back circa 2008.

Assuming that the (single) article that Bryan found is the one you were referring to, your memory of encountering it (and presumably any others like it) would appear to be hazy, as it didn't appear until several years after you recall having seen it. Off to the side, Bryan - I don't know whether the source you Googled says anything about it, but does it go into any additional depth about what the reaction within the medical community to this article was at the time? Or perhaps a survey of how many doctors and others actually agree with it?

More importantly, if the summary is accurate it's only putting forth the possibility of ending infants' lives if they are born with particularly horrible conditions; essentially, it's an extension of the ongoing debate over euthanasia for adults, particularly those who are unable to make and/or communicate their own decisions, though I don't know what your position is on that subject (while we're at it, I'm also curious about your thoughts on contraception and sex ed, for no particular reason, of course). I'd love to know how or why you think anyone would be somehow eager to "expand" this proposed practice if somehow given the opportunity to do so.

Off to the side, as it happens my mother has spoken of volunteer work she did back when she was in college or thereabouts, with infants who had been born with awful, torturous, terminal conditions; skin blue due to lack of oxygen, heads inflated like balloons, genuine "question the existence of a just, loving God" stuff, and all she and the other volunteers could be tasked with doing is giving those babies a brief bit of human contact and comfort before the reaper claimed them.

Even after all that, my mom says she's not sure that she herself could ever have gone through with an abortion, even if she was told her child would come out in such a state...she is also, however, unabashedly pro-choice.

I've not personally examined anything about that to actually know.

Dude, come on. There is nothing more obnoxious, or frankly pathetic, when someone apparently smart enough for a graduate degree is willing to pretend he's a blithering idiot to dance around having to state the bleeding obvious out loud.

But y'know what, yet again I'll play along, and lay things out for you nice and simple. You say you want both a) No abortions, and b) Universal health care. One of our two parties - the one you view, in your own words, as the "lesser of two evils" even if they line up in near-unbroken lock step behind a completely unqualified leader (and, y'know, completely abandon the entire concept of democracy, but, well, whatever) - openly aims to implement the former by law while openly opposing the latter. This adds up to many more unwanted children, some of them with very demanding needs, dumped into a society whose foster and other such systems are already overwhelmed, and the only response from the right will continue to be "beg for charity, start a GoFundMe, stop buying lattes, your problem, not our concern". Oh, and unless they manage to impose a nationwide ban on abortions - do you support that, too? - instead of leaving the issue to the states as they're currently doing, abortions will still happen, and those done outside states where they're still legal will be increasingly dangerous to the patient.

The "greater evil", for all of its incredibly lengthy list of utterly infuriating shortcomings, openly supports the latter part of your wish list, and, as Bryan notes, does so in openly-stated hopes that seeing to that part of the equation will, if not eliminate, drastically reduce demand for abortions, and be able to provide much better lives for those children born with the deck stacked against them.

Please explain to me how the former scenario is the preferable one to you, let alone the nation's mothers and children alike.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Atariboy is, presumably, a boy. As in a male member of the human species. Since he is not a member of the sex that has to deal with the consequences of pregnancy and being forced to carry a pregnancy/ectopic pregnancy/miscarriage to the point of birth, sepsis, death, etc, his opinion is basically irrelevant garbage.

Women should have absolute freedom to make decisions regarding their bodies, especially with respect to something as life-changing as an unwanted pregnancy. If you are male and you disagree, congratulations, your opinion is worthless and irrelevant. You will never have to worry about being forced to carry a pregnancy caused by a rape, you will never have to worry about being denied an abortion because you have an ectopic pregnancy, and you'll never have to risk death from sepsis because a religious cult built on centuries of misogyny has enacted laws that deny you basic medical healthcare.

[Atariboy]

I had my say and will conclude it with one final statement. Any reasonable person can see that this thread is full of extremism and hatred. It's people like you guys that are killing this world, not saving it.

[BulletMagnet]

I had my say

Actually you haven't, since aside from refusing to so much as cite sources you've also refused to clarify your position and provide us with a better sense of the perspective you're arguing from. But apparently asking you to "show your work", as it were, counts as "hatred" that's destroying the world in your book. And we wonder where the national discourse has gone.

If you're really too emotionally distraught to reply in earnest, then just state your position on three of the related issues I asked for in my post: 1) Euthanasia in general, 2) Birth control, 3) A nationwide abortion ban, as opposed to state-by-state. That by itself will frankly tell us plenty.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

[Women having bodily autonomy is] extremism and hatred. [Women having bodily autonomy is] killing this world, not saving it.

Truly the voice of sanity and reason, folks.

Fucking Christofacists.

[orange808]

A "reasonable" person wouldn't suggest that lefties want to kill week old babies. That's bollocks. In fact, I bet most people in this "extreme" thread support banning abortions after a certain point in the pregnancy.

Asking for the same universal health care the rest of the well developed current western world enjoys, gun control, and living wages isn't extremism.

Maintaining the abortion compromise we had to keep girls out of back alleys with dirty coat hangers was also a reasonable request. We had a compromise already. You righties were the ones that couldn't accept any compromise. You're not reasonable.

What was the compromise? Let me help you. (You don't have a degree. You lie.)

Time limit for babies (because we don't like losing them) and allow procedures for mothers (because we don't like losing them).

Putting a time limit on it is a compromise that makes young girls make a decision before the baby develops too far. The troublesome debate here is the fact that there's a thing inside a woman that cannot survive on its own and taking resources from the mother against her will. In that state, the moral argument becomes splitered and entirely subjective. There's no agreement and there never will be.

The compromise was already established and it wasn't "extremism".

Allowing the procedures protects women with unwanted pregnancies from having a baby, but that's not by biggest concern. My worry is young girls going to dangerous unlicensed quacks for dangerous procedures that lead to extreme harm or death. Girls will seek out dangerous providers and get hurt if we don't have an outlet.

Holding up a "magic book" doesn't prove anything factual. Sorry. We all have the right to have our view on that there's absolutely no standard. The Bill of Rights doesn't cite a specific religion--only freedom of practice. Favoring any one over another would impede the rights of others. Once again, "Mr Reasonable" (lmao!), you're the one unwilling to compromise or be reasonable.

[Mischief Maker]

I had my say and will conclude it with one final statement. Any reasonable person can see that this thread is full of extremism and hatred. It's people like you guys that are killing this world, not saving it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHRaUUlD00w

[Hoagtech]

And at the same time where I agree with that half of Washington DC, I also agree with the other half that says it's a mental health issue afflicting this country like the recent school shooting in Texas. Where I don't agree with either side is how they both seemingly can't see that the problem revolves around both aspects (The ease of acquiring a firearm and America's mental health crisis), along with many other problems like poverty.

Which side votes in favor of expanding mental health services? Hint: Not Republicans. You gotta keep going along this logic, not stop at step 2.

Yeah right. Their crime reform and drug policies (that they are rolling back faster than the Jerry Curl in a barber shop) is creating more mental health problems then their non existent mental health centers.

Their are close to NO mental institutions in US or even a prop for them.

Your full of shit and demonizing someone with their own beliefs in your blue hat circle jerk.

But an attitude of “wishing civil war” because your grumpy about the thought of getting along against the advertisers or “not a fucking inch” doesn’t help your point of view or your lack of a valid point to our current events.

[Mischief Maker]

Their are close to NO mental institutions in US or even a prop for them.

Your full of shit and demonizing someone with their own beliefs in your blue hat circle jerk.

That's Ronald Reagan's legacy.

No blue hat on him.

[Koa Zo]

that they are rolling back faster than the Jerry Curl in a barber shop

Why the need for the racial allusion?

[Hoagtech]

Their are close to NO mental institutions in US or even a prop for them.

Your full of shit and demonizing someone with their own beliefs in your blue hat circle jerk.

That's Ronald Reagan's legacy.

No blue hat on him.

OMG. Someone pulled back a money bonfire that had patients raped and jailed at the time..

Like I said before. No one from the blue belt has even proposed mental health care centers and are more worried about keeping their “hands off” their municipalities “brutality” circumstance than dealing with obvious causes of mental health crisis.

Don’t act like like you don’t see it legal fentanyl promoter..

that they are rolling back faster than the Jerry Curl in a barber shop

Why the need for the racial allusion?

I brought up crime and inflation and was accused of being a racist and Q.

At this point I’m incorporating it for no reason in my replies to “wear the the spaghetti that was thrown on my shirt”

[BulletMagnet]

But an attitude of “wishing civil war”

...projecting juuuuust a little here, maybe?

At this point I’m incorporating it for no reason in my replies to “wear the the spaghetti that was thrown on my shirt”

Perfectly reasonable.

[drauch]

I had my say and will conclude it with one final statement. Any reasonable person can see that this thread is full of extremism and hatred. It's people like you guys that are killing this world, not saving it.

I try not to even read this thread, but good lord, I'm glad you're done posting in it. Xtremists only, pls.

[orange808]

I can hear righty dog whistles and I'm going to call them out. The tears are delicious.

[Hoagtech]

I can hear righty dog whistles and I'm going to call them out. The tears are delicious.

Your not starting anything but another dump in your pants. Acting the grump doesn't make you tough.

Even your Universal Healthcare would be a another money bonfire if handed to democrats. Another good idea handed to the land of Bureaucracy.

Affordable Healthcare and expanded health services for the qualified makes wayyy more sense but you think with your heart mixed with your fart smells anyways Turtles producing stinky feel good half baked sentiments.

We don't need any more feel good initiatives during our record inflation.

As soon as they self destruct. You'll just blame it on Covid and corporate greed so HELL NO. Keep your hands out of my hard earned monies!

[orange808]

I can hear righty dog whistles and I'm going to call them out. The tears are delicious.

Your not starting anything but another dump in your pants. Acting the grump doesn't make you tough.

Even your Universal Healthcare would be a another money bonfire if handed to democrats. Another good idea handed to the land of Bureaucracy.

Affordable Healthcare and expanded health services for the qualified makes wayyy more sense but you think with your heart mixed with your fart smells anyways Turtles producing stinky feel good half baked sentiments.

We don't need any more feel good initiatives during our record inflation.

As soon as they self destruct. You'll just blame it on Covid and corporate greed so HELL NO. Keep your hands out of my hard earned monies!

Uh-huh.

You've got your mind made up. You always did. You're not here to debate.

Everything that doesn't align with your predetermined dogma will "fail" eventually because: reasons. Facts be damned.

I never said I wasn't grumpy. Doing things that are proven to be more efficient isn't "feel good", it's called being sensible.

If you read the threads, I don't support open borders, abolishing the military and police (people can't be trusted), or true utopian global communism. I know the difference between realistic and utopian ideas. I just hate the way people like you ignore data and use lies to "poison the well" with bad data and make perfectly plausible/realistic expectations sound impossible--often with over the top hyperbole. You even make "realistic" a naughty word. I can't even say it to a utopian hippie without getting yelled at. Why? Because, people like you and Hillary Clinton poisoned the well.

For example, you used the old and tired "big gubment bad because reasons" argument. You employed that idea with your prediction that "bureaucracy" would fail because you say so. Ironic, because plenty of things you support are "bureaucracy". Society cannot exist with bureaucracy. For instance, designating and enforcing schedule one drug regulations is bureaucracy and you don't mind that and I don't either.

You're picking and choosing what is and is not bureaucracy out of pure convenience. If you want anarchy, you're the one with impossible utopian ideas. If you ignore what is and isn't bureaucracy, you're the one that isn't being realistic.

We already went over what America spends on health care and the outcomes abroad. You don't have a figurative leg to stand on. Yet, you carry on. "Feel good" thinking, indeed.

Someone correct me I'm wrong, didn't hoagie post something in support of universal health care previously? Am I too lazy to check? Yep. Sure am. If you did claim to support it earlier and you're attacking it now, that's a contradiction. It's dishonest to claim support for something while plotting a way to tear it down. That's another issue. You apparently value the idea of appearing "tough" and you think it's okay to lie about your beliefs for convenience. That's not honest debate. It's "by any means" necessary pursuit of your agenda. It's dishonorable.

I won't pull your chain with lies. For instance, I won't feign love and respect for the right to bear arms. I want that shit abolished. I'm not going to lie. I don't necessarily value "tough". I do value honesty. I can't shake the feeling you were trying to mislead me about your beliefs on health care

[BryanM]

This is really more of a leftist in-fighting and doomposting thread than a circlejerk...

Off to the side, Bryan - I don't know whether the source you Googled says anything about it, but does it go into any additional depth about what the reaction within the medical community to this article was at the time? Or perhaps a survey of how many doctors and others actually agree with it?

The wiki article I quoted from called it "controversial", I believe.

The vast majority of doctors are obviously not going to practice fucking eugenics. There are maybe a tiny fringe of weirdo sickos in the field, but sociopathy doesn't automatically lead into 'enjoys murder'. If you're actual devoid of empathy, the suffering of others wouldn't activate the dopamine pathways in your brain. (The fash by definition get a lot of dopamine from seeing the suffering of others. It's their defining feature!)

While on the topic of sickos and euthanasia, Jack Kevorkian is a big-time sicko. The story of him getting a mentally-gone woman to sit in the suicide chair and push the button, or harvesting a guy's kidneys... that's not consensual or ethical, to say the least.

I had a little interest in the field of ethical euthanasia, since it would have really helped my father. One of the youtube videos showed the end point of the process over in Sweden or something. The man administering the drink filmed their interaction from beginning to end to be able to prove it was carried out correctly (only if you're doing something wrong, do you not want it to be seen) - told the couple they'd just sit in the hotel room together, listening to music or whatever. If the husband decided he changed his mind and today wasn't the day, they would leave, no questions asked. The patient had to actively ask when he was ready to die, the man mixed the cocktail, came back, and says "Mr.______, if you drink this, you will die" "I understand". The only point where the healthcare worker put even a little pressure on him, was informing him he needed to drink more if he wanted it to work.

That... is not how Kevorkian rolls.

I try not to even read this thread

I'm sorry, I try to push things toward the fun material mechanics behind doomsday, but it's not what sells tickets. Everyone wants the politics wrestlin' match...

You're picking and choosing what is and is not bureaucracy out of pure convenience.

Good 'ole language manipulation: 'communism' is whenever the government does good things for working class people, 'freedom' is whenever the government does good things for capitalists. QED.

BS is a waste of time that I've long since outgrown. I don't know how some of ya'all can be bothered to engage with such lazy intellectual weaselness for all these years.

[To Far Away Times]

I had my say and will conclude it with one final statement. Any reasonable person can see that this thread is full of extremism and hatred. It's people like you guys that are killing this world, not saving it.

It's almost like taking away human rights will cause an uproar. You may not be bothered by the theocratic backslide that the Supreme Court is forcing on us, but even if you aren't right now, you will be affected down the line. After reading Justice Clarence Thomas' fervent wish list of civil rights cases that he wanted to reverse I couldn't help but be reminded of this:

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

[Sengoku Strider]

Even your Universal Healthcare would be a another money bonfire if handed to democrats. Another good idea handed to the land of Bureaucracy.

Nearly the entire human race outside of Sub-Saharan Africa has access to free or universal healthcare:



The message that it's bad only exists in the American conservative media bubble. And this is only because the Republican party is in the pockets of the insurance & hospital industries. That's literally all it comes down to.

Not that the Democrats aren't deep in those same pockets, but they benefit politically by pretending to listen to healthcare advocates so they push different messaging. 70% of the US favours healthcare for all, so it's a vote winner.

I'm predicting the next wave of US conservatism will shift toward support for it, as conservatives do in most every developed country. Blue collar, rural & working class Republican voters suffer terribly from the current system, and they know it. Someone will make a play for that pile of votes.

[BulletMagnet]

Someone correct me I'm wrong, didn't hoagie post something in support of universal health care previously?

Atariboy is the one who said he supported universal health care (albeit without going into any specifics). Here's the most recent post that I'm aware of by Hoagtech on the subject, from the "world today" thread:

Your totally right. It’s RACIST to think that universal healthcare tax shouldn’t be implemented immediately. Ditch Diggers need healthcare too!

Naturally, he never responded to my request for clarification on his stance either.

I'm predicting the next wave of US conservatism will shift toward support for it, as conservatives do in most every developed country. Blue collar, rural & working class Republican voters suffer terribly from the current system, and they know it. Someone will make a play for that pile of votes.

As ever, you're a lot more optimistic than I am.

[BryanM]

That reminds me I checked out the list of people who've been on the supreme court. It still feels a lot like Pokémon, even if they're short of a full set of 151.

I can kind of see the appeal of studying history, there. You can crawl into the lives of some of the most evil and degenerate people that have ever lived, and see what they were like. It's kind of like reading about a living nightmare like Albert Fish or something.

Still tripping about that era when Andrew Jackson was more evil than the court at the time was.
___

Oh, and two women working at a Subway were shot for putting too much mayo on a sandwich.

I'm predicting the next wave of US conservatism will shift toward support for it, as conservatives do in most every developed country. Blue collar, rural & working class Republican voters suffer terribly from the current system, and they know it. Someone will make a play for that pile of votes.

Every time someone says "maybe something good will happen" I always wonder... why? Why would something good happen?

The old joke of "the only thing Trump could do to get impeached and kicked out is give everyone healthcare" (playing off his lie about "taking care of everyone" during the debates) is funny because it's true.

A slight majority of republican voters "support" the idea. "Support" is one of those lovely weasel words, because it encompasses everything from actually trying to make it happen by voting for Sanders in a primary, to passively opposing it by not doing that, or actively opposing it by voting for someone else in the dem primary (Ah, liberals. They're effectively the first line of defense for fascism.). A broad range of options there, with "support".

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the trend-line on this one. None of the terminally online conservative spaces are remotely open to the idea of cost controls and "free" healthcare. My interactions with conservatives in meatspace concurs. Outright disgust at the idea of helping other people or helping themselves. The ones who claim to support it don't have it as an actual priority, as a thing to actively advocate or vote for.

The next wave of their thought will be the same as the last: "Who can we hurt next?"

Hm, you're not from the US, no? Am I remembering that right? It's really kind of hard to "get" how extremely evil we are without being immersed in the culture. As the imperial core, it's imperative to the empire's goals that we're as mean as possible. If we had empathy for anyone outside of our own tribe, that... would be very suboptimal for them.

Just remember the story of the scorpion and the frog. We're the scorpion. It makes absolutely zero sense, I know. Like with domesticated foxes, we've been mentally conditioned and selectively bred to be this way.

[Hoagtech]

Naturally, he never responded to my request for clarification on his stance either.

Of course not. My priority stance is not a universal healthcare issue but a lack of priority of the real issues effecting us. I’m not going to give up my energy debating an issue I believe will light itself on fire when the bigger issue is reckless spending in our current economy.

Go ahead and ask my stance on water running vehicles in the current market.

I don’t trust a single cent coming out of government spending for any reason ATM.

It’s a shitshow and an accountants nightmare.

You might as well wish for handicap floating Jetpack walkers at this point..