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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:00 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
An healthy diet without abuse of carbs (e.g., tons of pasta, rice) makes putting up weight next to impossible: imagine getting 3000 calories worth of healthy salads with vegetable proteins, every day... :wink:


This is why I use supplemets. After calculating everything through my calorie intake and food I eat, I deduced that I just can't eat enough without them. I need 3000-3600kcal daily (and 160-200 grams of protein) which is an overkill for me if eaten through normal food. Or of course I could, but I don't want to. I still prefer eating chicken salad for dinner and porridge for breakfast, so I just have supply rest with protein shakes and vitamin etc pills. So far supplements with healthy and varied diet have given me very good results. I don't argue against that eating food should be your first choice. But I have found that there are limits on how much I can cook and carry home and gulp down :)


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:23 pm 


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Randorama wrote:

An healthy diet without abuse of carbs (e.g., tons of pasta, rice) makes putting up weight next to impossible: imagine getting 3000 calories worth of healthy salads with vegetable proteins, every day... :wink:


Pretty much this. You would have to spend six hours eating, if you could even physically eat that many vegetables.

GaijinPunch wrote:
I need to cook more. I'll cook Lentils... and then pour one of those "curry packages" over it. I don't think they're particularly awful when compared w/ most other horse shit in America... just not amazing. I don't have tons of time though either. Maybe there should be a shmeetup revolved around this thread.


Not sure if you mentioned it earlier, have you ever considered cooking most of your food on one day and then eating it during the week?

Be down for a meet. Sucks we're all so damn far from each other.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:38 pm 



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MJR: agreed on supplements. "Natural" is good as long as it does not give you nausea, and supplements can be quite healthy if you select carefully. I take fat supplements because I simply cannot eat enough olive oil et similia, during the day (!).

Steve: I do nibble all the time, which is something I don't mind doing when working (you know, stress relief actions: I also drink tea in this manner). Dinner is usually a long nibbling session, in fact.

I know that the problem is *far bigger* for professional sportsmen such as swimmers, cyclists, rugby players...i.e. people who consume 9k, 10k calories per day, when training.

When I was a grad student and Teaching Assistant in Australia, I had Ian Thorpe (the olympic swimmer) in one of my classes. He told me that his solution was to ingurgitate vast quantities of greasy pizza (...easy to find, in Australia).

Cyclists spend whole days on the saddle eating ultra-proteic, ultra-caloric gelatin creams, these days, otherwise they would need to eat *kilos* of pasta/rice while being nauseous from training.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:39 pm 



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Groovin tunes today. Lots of shadowboxing and bagwork, with ring holds in between as cooldown isometrics. Also some mean abwork. This is my favorite sort of music for boxing drills.

GaijinPunch this one is definitely more up your alley my man

https://youtu.be/DqaWCV18hiQ


Stevens wrote:
On your first point - More people need to shout that from the roof tops. Connective tissue takes forever to catch up to muscles in terms of growth and repair. Progress carefully people! This is one of the biggest reasons that even if 2 or 3 reps of something harder seems like a good idea you're better off regressing to a previous level you can do 5+ reps of. Far less orthopedic stress and far less chance of injury. As I like to say - you actually get stronger faster. Also at our collective ages it takes far longer to heal.

I think a lot more people are realizing this! Thankfully the research I've seen so far indicates that connective tissue can be built up and repaired, it just has to be done patiently with proper nutrition and stretching. The tissue growth in tendons and joints is stimulated mostly by stretching and "squeezing", NOT by heavy-weight hypertrophy. So the type of conditioning aimed at MAX muscle hypertrophy is mutually-exclusive to MAX tendon growth, and vice versa. You can get growth in BOTH at the same time, just not MAX.
What happens to a lot of bodybuilders is they get caught in a cycle of keeping MUH GAINZ while their collagenous tissue is still healing/strengthening, so they never fully let them heal and strengthen, leading to all sorts of long-term problems. Lots of practical wisdom in the mindset of a physical therapists seeking to shore up weaknesses / injuries / deficiencies with the intention of improving their MAX reps/weights.


Stevens wrote:
What are bus stop squats? Never heard of them and couldn't find anything on the Google.


You've probably already heard of them. Slav squats. Steven Low who wrote the book Overcoming Gravity calls them "asian squats". I've also heard them called "resting squats". Flatfooted, squatting all the way down until you're resting. Minimum tension in legs and hips. Bouncy, almost.

The intention is to hold this position for 1 minute or more, then work up to 5 minutes. Also you can stretch the hips or twist/reach up to stretch the back and shoulders. Builds up ankle strength/stability, stretches the legs, loosens the back, loosens the hips. Pretty sure it is also included as one of those "ancient primal positions" if you follow animal movement / Ido Portal sort of disciplines.

Stevens wrote:
As to your last few points:

Setting goals is a great thing. Saying I'm going to do it by a certain day/time is not, at least with intermediate/advanced stuff. Our bodies will always get stronger, but they do it at their own pace. The further you go with this stuff the longer it takes to build strength.

I don't count calories either. If you're diet is basically on point - you're eating real, good food you're fine. I weigh myself like once a month or when I move to a harder progression of something because it isn't uncommon for me to put on a pound or two when that happens.


Some people really benefit from that external structure / external motivation. If I had an in-person friend or coach that did the tracking and metrics for me I would probably benefit, and would probably go along with it. But to do that myself is too much of a timesink and thoughtsink when I have other stuff in my life to spend that organization-time on. Hey, now I totally get why people like going to gyms and getting coaches! :lol: But really, I enjoy my lonely routines cut off from the rest of the world too much. Whatever works!

GaijinPunch wrote:
I need to cook more. I'll cook Lentils... and then pour one of those "curry packages" over it. I don't think they're particularly awful when compared w/ most other horse shit in America... just not amazing. I don't have tons of time though either. Maybe there should be a shmeetup revolved around this thread.


I'd cook heaps of food if there was a meetup! Personally I think I eat more delicious food now than ever before. Making my own food gave me the avenue to be healthier but also to learn basic technique and cook it in a tasty way. Now I gorge on delicious food while still getting fitter.


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:41 pm 


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DDDP wrote:
I think a lot more people are realizing this! Thankfully the research I've seen so far indicates that connective tissue can be built up and repaired, it just has to be done patiently with proper nutrition and stretching. The tissue growth in tendons and joints is stimulated mostly by stretching and "squeezing", NOT by heavy-weight hypertrophy. So the type of conditioning aimed at MAX muscle hypertrophy is mutually-exclusive to MAX tendon growth, and vice versa. You can get growth in BOTH at the same time, just not MAX.

What happens to a lot of bodybuilders is they get caught in a cycle of keeping MUH GAINZ while their collagenous tissue is still healing/strengthening, so they never fully let them heal and strengthen, leading to all sorts of long-term problems. Lots of practical wisdom in the mindset of a physical therapists seeking to shore up weaknesses / injuries / deficiencies with the intention of improving their MAX reps/weights.

You've probably already heard of them. Slav squats. Steven Low who wrote the book Overcoming Gravity calls them "asian squats". I've also heard them called "resting squats". Flatfooted, squatting all the way down until you're resting. Minimum tension in legs and hips. Bouncy, almost.

The intention is to hold this position for 1 minute or more, then work up to 5 minutes. Also you can stretch the hips or twist/reach up to stretch the back and shoulders. Builds up ankle strength/stability, stretches the legs, loosens the back, loosens the hips. Pretty sure it is also included as one of those "ancient primal positions" if you follow animal movement / Ido Portal sort of disciplines.

Some people really benefit from that external structure / external motivation. If I had an in-person friend or coach that did the tracking and metrics for me I would probably benefit, and would probably go along with it. But to do that myself is too much of a timesink and thoughtsink when I have other stuff in my life to spend that organization-time on. Hey, now I totally get why people like going to gyms and getting coaches! :lol: But really, I enjoy my lonely routines cut off from the rest of the world too much. Whatever works!


Once you said Asian Squats I knew exactly what you were talking about. Our natural resting position. I can get down into one no problem. Spending significant time in one is another story. Just did 30 seconds in one, could have done 45 most likely but could start to feel it for sure.

Rotator cuff issues for body builders was along the lines that I was thinking. Not cause the RC is a tendon (I mean it has them), but cause like tendons they tend to get strong much slower compared to say ma pecz.

Re - Lonely routine. I hear you 100%. In my school building it is well known that I get in at 7 AM to workout. And if you're not a PE person or the guy I directly work with you better not come around until at least 8: )

Re - Push Ups. So today I skipped archers in favor of sliding 1 arm since I'm home for the day and felt like experimenting. I can say with certainty that sliding 1 arm are not my way forward. Discomfort in my right wrist when it is the sliding arm can't be ignored. Next week I'll start Incline Archer Push Ups as I feel I am at the point where I can move on the something harder.

Going to start with my feet 6 inches off the floor and build from there.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:01 am 



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"Asian squat" indeed. A common sight in China is someone squatting, smoking a fag and checking the phone during a break. An unwritten rule is that women with a skirt shouldn't be peeped at, when they squat :wink:

Connective tissue: my 2 cents is that gymnasts must work a lot on increasing their flexibility and connective issues, because the sport forces them to follow movement that require high dexterity AND strength.

I am really skeptical about people obsessing over "size", if they do not play contact sports like rugby, NFL, hockey (i.e. in which being big means being harder to get tackled/charged).

Besides, proper calisthenics/gymnastics will still make your body fairly big, and tense to ridiculous levels, though not "huge"...I'd add a penis joke here, but I digress.

DDDP, motivation: in Chinese culture, collective training sessions are an ancient method for those who struggle to train alone (...I currently work in China). They work wonders to start training (peer pressure, but also support when motivation wavers), even if for people like us they are probably a hassle.

I may have some interesting news to share on this, soon.

Cooking: yes, cooking your own food gives you so much control on diet that it should be mandatory. As an Italian, I do advocate a "slow food" philosophy for anyone (and making time for cooking).

I admit that the bulk of cooking comes from my wife, but I do cut all veggies, meat, etc. into ready-to-use portions, wash dishes, cook on week-ends, etc. A rice cooker is also a fantastic kitchen tool to have at home.

Steve: what kind of discomfort? I wonder if I should also be mindful about wrists problems.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:10 am 


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Stevens wrote:
[
Not sure if you mentioned it earlier, have you ever considered cooking most of your food on one day and then eating it during the week?

Be down for a meet. Sucks we're all so damn far from each other.


I'm overdue for an NY trip by like 2-3 years. I have a lot of people there. I'm about to fly over it as well... going to see some friends over yonder that I've not seen in far too long. It took me 18 months but I realized the pandemic took a bigger emotional toll on me than I thought. Would love to see my son but that's a bit of a shit show right now... Spring, if I'm lucky. Why do Japanese have to make everything so fucking difficult (govt. and individuals)?

As for my food, I have definitely considered doing that. It's just a time thing right now, and I'm not eating shit. It's a solid "decent". I'll slowly learn a few things and get up there.

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GaijinPunch this one is definitely more up your alley my man

https://youtu.be/DqaWCV18hiQ


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:26 am 


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Randorama wrote:
Steve: what kind of discomfort? I wonder if I should also be mindful about wrists problems.


Palm up it would be just south of your index and thumb. Probably in the tendons? I've only ever noticed it sliding my arm out, it doesn't happen during archers.

A nice little warning I suppose. Ill listen to what it's saying and find another way there. Love this stuff.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:36 am 



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Randorama wrote:
Connective tissue: my 2 cents is that gymnasts must work a lot on increasing their flexibility and connective issues, because the sport forces them to follow movement that require high dexterity AND strength.

This is generally true of all athletics, which is why I think keeping 1-2 "sports" in one's life is important, even if only as a "diagnostic tool" to flush out impingements, tears, soreness, etc from heavier work in the weekly routine. All fitness boils down to "forcing your body to follow movement", which signals the short-term and long-term growth factors that result in tissue development. It's just a game of what sort of "forcing" you want to do, and how far your body can go without injury. The body will always respond. Folks forget that response is sometimes *snap* though. :lol:

Randorama wrote:
I am really skeptical about people obsessing over "size", if they do not play contact sports like rugby, NFL, hockey (i.e. in which being big means being harder to get tackled/charged).

Size is important cause you gotta make sure the oxandrin and the third scoop of preworkout is kicking in properly. Getting a pump on and checking for ruptured muscle heads is the standard method to verify a SIZE LEVEL-UP. If the bar don't bend you ain't my friend.

Re: China workouts. I'm already deep into kettlebell'ing but in another time and place I'd be doing those group sessions of stone-lock throws + swings I've seen in some video demos!! seems like an efficient way to stay in shape.

https://youtu.be/hCCg5XXKayQ

Stevens wrote:
Rotator cuff issues for body builders was along the lines that I was thinking. Not cause the RC is a tendon (I mean it has them), but cause like tendons they tend to get strong much slower compared to say ma pecz.

^^ One of the loudest reasons I paired gym rings w kettlebells when I started my home gym last March.

My dad suffered/suffers from rc limitations and pain as well as the classic "pulled forward" posture earned by overdeveloping chest muscles from h.s. football. Common issue for guys. Rings basically "fix" this as they can be used to build up all supporting muscles in shoulder without needing to stimulate via targeted hypertrophy, which can inflame and injure in muscle groups that surround joints. I especially think the scapular development and the serratus development from rings is invaluable. These areas are annoying to drill with the other tools I have on hand. Rings work so effective on shoulders that I've (slowly) taken my dad through some of the same isometrics and holds on the rings. Lo, he's repairing decades-old impingements and limitations that he never thought he'd fix now that he's "past his prime".

@GaijinPunch here's another for you then! (same artist, different mix) Hope it gets you poppin on your feet. Rhythm is the soul of efficient fitness imo, even if the beat is in your head. And for the sake of completeness, I want you to imagine a 6ft, 200lb man beating the tar out of a heavybag to this tune so hard that the garage trusses shake :lol: :lol:

https://youtu.be/_67PVPv1oUk


Last edited by DDDP on Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:04 pm 


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I met a very impressively built woman yesterday who told me she does CrossFit. Little did I know what she meant, but I could tell she'd been doing it right. It has to be said, rarely do I see someone obviously into such athletics, in person, who leaves impression this lasting.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:13 pm 


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MJR wrote:
The trick is to keep them always slightly bent, at least that's what the training instructor told me and I chose to believe him.


Congrats on getting into a routine! That is the most important thing.

Based on your post I think your program and trainer are terrible, and strongly urge you to read and understand Starting Strength (and, ideally, do the program described in it).


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:45 am 



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Steve: I will wait a bit before training for sliding archers. It seems that everything is going fine with declines and archers, so I am not in a hurry (the 15+ reps mark is the current target).

Btw: do you think that one-hand inclines may be another route to the one-hand push-ups?

DDDP: Sorry, I am not sure that I get the lingo regarding size :wink:

...obsessing over size, body-builder style, is something I still do not understand. Please keep in mind that I did practice sports in which non-trivial muscle size is a natural consequence of the necessary training involved in the sport (rugby, scrum-half position; rowing, 4 without). Training just to become bigger...I cannot see practical applications, but please feel free to correct me.

Btw, kettlebells are a Russian invention (or so Pavel Tsatsouline says, and it's better not to question The Strong Man from Russia!). But collective training sessions are very common, especially for seniors.

More on this in a later post, when I have some time.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:31 pm 


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Haha. In my last post I said Incline Archers, meant decline.

One Arm Inclines and work your way down on like a set of stairs? Sure.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:47 pm 


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bkk wrote:
MJR wrote:
The trick is to keep them always slightly bent, at least that's what the training instructor told me and I chose to believe him.


Congrats on getting into a routine! That is the most important thing.

Based on your post I think your program and trainer are terrible, and strongly urge you to read and understand Starting Strength (and, ideally, do the program described in it).


Thank you. I did actually an error on my post, it was not the leg extension where I was instructed to not extend my leg fully to avoid injury, it was the leg press. Sorry about that, this is so new to me that I can't remember the names properly.

As for your comments about my trainer and book - I knew that someone would come up and say that my trainer and program is terrible and I should read a book instead. I don't know enough about the subject to start an online argument about whether you would be right or wrong. But I know enough to see that training is similar to nutrition and health advice - there are lot of very strong differing opinions online about it, and some people are very fervent advocates about certain books. Quick googling shows that this book is no exception (As it shows that this book has also it's detractors). To really know whether some diet advocated online - or training program advocated online would be better than what health officials and gym instructors recommend, I would have to be an expert and study hell of a lot. I don't have that luxury.

So, I simply have to take a choice: Do I want to believe my gym instructor or do I want to read some american book that was written by someone whom I don't know and recommended by someone I dont know as a person. That depends on what one would think about american self-help books. I have never been very trusting about any self help book written in US - sorry. So, I choose to rather believe my gym instructor. I don't believe that it is significantly worse option. If I am wrong, and you are right, then I will probably not develop much progress, and I will probably sustain an injury later down the road. If this happens, I let you know, admit you are right and then I will start looking for alternate sources of information, including the book you recommended. But so far, I believe that the risk would be equal - if not greater - if I follow the advice from some book recommended in the internet.

I do not mean this (or anything I said above) as dismissal to you or your advice (although I am little bit dismissive about US self help books.. I admit that). It simply proves what I said that this is a subject where lot of people have their own strong opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:55 pm 



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MJR wrote:
[...]I do not mean this (or anything I said above) as dismissal to you or your advice (although I am little bit dismissive about US self help books.. I admit that). It simply proves what I said that this is a subject where lot of people have their own strong opinions.


I believe that I agree with some of your points, but I decided to butt in and add my 2 cents.

I generally ask for explanations when people criticise some of my actions or ideas and I offer explanations when I criticise someone's actions or ideas (e.g., "bkk, sorry but: terrible. Why?" and so on).

I don't have an opinion on your program, but I would suggest...everyone to read as much as possible on general health, training, and so on, of course trying to be selective about your readings.

Personally I always aim for works that are well-researched and written in a sober style (...not the self-help style, I guess? I don't know it, to be frank).

No book is perfect, so I don't worry if authors included chapters that I know to be bollocks - I will forget about them, anyway, and probably find something better researched on the topic of those chapters.

I would also add this...

There is no special need to "believe" authorities: an expert should in theory be able to give an understandable explanation of whatever advice they offer to customers who seek their advice, and the outcomes of the advice.

If the explanation is sound and has immediate consequences (e.g., "do this exercise like this and you will increase your strength in your legs" or "eat this because it will increase your deficitary vitamins levels"), then there will be a practical proof of the validity of the explanation.

Belief, as far as I am concerned, is about trusting something/someone because of one's feeling about the person/idea and their validity (I don't want link to a definition of the word, sorry - I won't debate this point).

Training requires a certain amount of reasoning and specific knowledge on how to perform skills correctly (and why they matter), because the human body is a complex system and works in a certain way.

Knowledge of these mechanisms is important because it allows us to monitor, correct and improve our goals and results, and to avoid mistakes on which we can apply immediate corrections (if it hurts, you know it first).

So, I'd prefer to have sound knowledge of the principles behind a training schedule or diet, rather than beliefs about the "authority" providing me schedules and plans.

This also because "authority", in this case, comes from having knowledge that can be shared, explained in detail and commented upon.

Your coach will probably be happy if you ask why you're doing certain exercises and what benefits they will give you. Maybe he is also fine with blind faith in his knowledge, but why not ask?

If your coach cannot explain you, then you should question how he/she obtained the authority and expertise to coach in the first place. Teaching/coaching/guiding people cannot revolve around blind orders.

Reading some science behind the exercises, nutrition, etc. should also make you understand the explanations easily, and make you less passive towards a domain of knowledge that tends to be underrated: well-being.

I do not think that you deed to become "an expert" within any short amount of time - I am still not an expert at 42, but since I was a kid I would always ask my coaches "why" questions on anything. It adds up over time.

Mens Sana in Corpore Sano - train hard, read widely and critically, find the luxury time to know yourself more, and find a balance about trusting the authorities and helping yourself.

The 2 cents from someone you don't know from the internet, of course (I can give references and some more background about myself, though...).
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:31 pm 


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Randorama wrote:

The 2 cents from someone you don't know from the internet, of course (I can give references and some more background about myself, though...).


Thanks. Your stuff is quite agreeable, on general level; it is certainly good to get knowledge as much as you can and quite as varied topics as you can. You suggestion of asking coach questions is also very good one. I choose to believe him as "authority", for now, because at this point training without any coaching = training blind, or training blind on some book is not an option. When your options are limited you need to make the most informed and likely choice available. What you choose to believe is pretty much dependent on multiple things; it can't be just boiled on few certain points, you have to use common sense. My instructor has picked my program on my age, height, weight, current shape, strength and so on, so it is common sense to me to go with his suggestion for now, rather than just apply someone else's program or try to figure out something based on a book.

I know that at some certain point, I need to read more on the subject, if I need to make progress, but it depends on multiple factors; how satisfied am I with my progress, and where I wish to aim, what kind of body composition I wish to aim. I am not looking to compete on olympics level, and I do not wish to turn myself into a mountain. So it is reasonable to believe that my current program is good enough, because I am very satisfied with results so far.

But things can change, I might wish for more progress and better results later, and I might have to start study the thing more if I get really crazy about it. Then I should get myself to read every book on the subject I can. Only one thing I know for sure: I will never, ever touch steroids, hormones, or similar kind of crap :) (not that any of you had suggested it, I just felt the need to say it)


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:02 pm 


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MJR wrote:
If I am wrong, and you are right, then I will probably not develop much progress, and I will probably sustain an injury later down the road. If this happens, I let you know, admit you are right and then I will start looking for alternate sources of information, including the book you recommended. But so far, I believe that the risk would be equal - if not greater - if I follow the advice from some book recommended in the internet.


I imagine this would have been my exact response if I were in your position. The reason I recommended that book specifically is that it provides a solid, biomechanically grounded reason for every decision it makes. You'll also note that I primarily suggested you read and understand it, which would not prevent you from carrying on with your current program (which, again, regularly doing a program is more important than anything else).


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:52 am 



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Steve: thanks. Just to day-dream a bit: Once I can be sure that I can be safe with archers, would you propose to try archers & decline positions? It sounds intriguing. I will try one-arm inclines tomorrow, as I feel curious about them.

...Pistol squats: I tried the basic pistol squat movement on Friday, and I think that I need a reference support to keep my balance steady.

I can go quite low (30 cmts/one foot from the ground?), but even stretching my arm and "feeling out" a pole while lowering my body (i.e. fingers touch the pole, I get a sense of the right balance position) are a bless. Is this a good starting option to develop more balance?

MJR: Just to be clear; my 2 cents are that your coach can explain you his decisions in detail, and can eventually correct these decisions if some issues arise along the way (e.g., an exercise suddenly gives you trouble/injuries).

As an educator, I never stop at answering questions and always give further readings to students who wish to read. Coaches are indeed educators, so they may be very happy to share the sources of their knowledge.

...Coaches can also write books and these books can explain training techniques, goals, results, etc. in thorough detail (bkk's point is spot-on: thanks, bkk!).

When reading books, you can ask yourself if the coaches/authors are spot-on or they are going on wild tangents. Danny Kavadlo's books, for instance, seem to always contain some personal tangents on matters other than training, but his "dissections" of exercises tend to be very thorough.

Nobody's perfect, and especially not me, but still...I'd suggest to get informed from various sources, to take it slow and steady, and to listen to your body (even small pains are revealing).

Physical exercise is a subtle intellectual pursuit, after all :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:39 am 


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Thanks all for your informative and friendly responses, they are all appreciated (despite my caution). Part of the reason why I've been training carefully and not too hard is also because I try to make sure don't get injured - I've done that couple of times in the past and I don't wish to repeat it. I'm going slowly, getting new information slowly (as my time permits me), and sticking to routine. (cardio every second day, weights every second, rest 1-2 days a week).


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:04 am 



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MJR: My apologies if I sounded too annoying and pushy - or anything unpleasant. Obviously, my intention was not to be an hassle, but sometimes I forget that I should be as explicit as possible on the interwebs, when asserting something and when presenting my intentions.

I also think that everyone in this thread agrees on this - train carefully and with gusto, and enjoy routines. We are mature lads, so we are all authorized to be creatures of habit :wink:
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Last edited by Randorama on Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:13 am 


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Randorama wrote:
MJR: My apologies if I sounded too annoying and pushy - or anything unpleasant. Obviously, my intention was not to be an hassle, but sometimes I forget that I should be as explicit as possible on the interwebs, and with intentions.

I also think that everyone in this thread agrees on this - train carefully and with gusto, and enjoy routines. We are mature lads, so we are all authorized to be creatures of habit :wink:


You weren't, don't worry. And thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:09 pm 



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Hope everyone got extra shredded wheat over the weekend. Weather here is becoming chillier, which means pushing my outdoor routines into new heights (I've always loved doing as much of my exercise outdoor in the cold).

My wife and I did 6 miles of kettlebell walks + 4 miles of jogging split across Saturday and Sunday. Felt great to invest a ton of time into endurance work. I've neglected the longer kb walks for several weeks, but I wanna get back into em to build up my shoulders and upper back to help w rope climbs.

https://youtu.be/0Z1tQoV-BTo

Keep experimenting and improving.


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:40 am 


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Haha. We are very much the opposite in that respect. Not a fan of working in the cold. Respect though. I looked into Wim Hof's techniques a few years back and wasn't ready. Still not, but certainly haven't ruled it out. Like anything else I do though if I'm going to do it I have to be 100% on board. That isn't something to do half assed.

Was just thinking about my progress, sort of my calisthenics state of the union.

Hspu - thrilled with my progress since moving these to pull up day. Hitting 10 now no issues. Going to stay at this depth till Halloween and reduce book pile by 1\4 to 1\2 an inch.

Pull Ups - added 3rd set, but still stuck around 10. If I don't see a breakthrough in another week or two time to grease the groove.

Pistol squats. About same as hspu, hitting 11. Some days my sets are incredible and others my balance is a bit wonky. They're funny that way. Halloween increase depth by another inch.

Start decline archers today. I expect around 6 - 10 reps per side. And if the past is any indication 1 - 3 lbs of weight gain: )

Going to add a measly 4lbs. to my dips till Halloween and then maybe add more.

Stay strong kids.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:09 am 



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I'd liken Wim Hof / cold training to a person who cannot touch their toes. That person hopes to gain the flexibility to not only touch toes, but to pancake stretch. Gaining this flexibility is attainable within a few weeks/months of daily stretching (assuming no major injuries along the way) but when the person is first trying to touch their toes and cannot, the goal feels very far away. The simple rule for this person would be "try to touch your toes every day, but DON'T bounce and FORCE it!" and they will reach their goal in a few weeks.

In the same way, try to suffer the cold every day, but DON'T SHIVER!

The goal is to overcome the cold with your rate of body-heat generation, not to shiver in agony. Once the brown fat is patiently built up, you will genuinely feel "fine" near-naked at 32F or below for sustained periods of time, without frostbite or sickness. This is also when ice baths are on the table. The breathing routine isn't necessary but it helps, since the body-heat consumes a lot of oxygen (1 liter of oxygen consumed = 5 calories burned). Some folks do it just for the calorie burn, which adds up significantly over time. Just make sure to check your windchill chart. :lol:

When you shiver (more than just an involuntary shudder, but sustained muscle shivering), you're done. It means your Brown Fat is unable to keep up with the cold. Try again later that day, or tomorrow. Put the jacket back on. Turn the shower back up. Go back inside. Whatever. Shivering means your set is finished. Over time, the onset of shivering will become more sporadic and will stop appearing at higher temps entirely. The reduction of shivering intensity / sensitivity is your main indicator of improvement since the brown fat itself won't be noticeable on your body, not even if you have low bodyfat %.

Supplement with cold showers. Some people are horrified at the idea. A slower and easier method is to follow the cold weather (dropping from 60s to 50s, acclimate, then follow the 50s down into the 40s, and onward). During Autumn, you can acclimate yourself by the time freezing temps show up. My standard Winter test is to roll shirtless/shorts in the first snow for 5 to 10 minutes (usually calling my kids over to point and laugh) to see if I shiver.

The biggest payoff for me isn't health, but time. As a kid anything in the low 60F range was "jacket weather", and mid 40s and below was too cold without heavier coats. Now, I can play sports / outdoors all the way down to the high 30s without effort, extending my "summer" much further into the year and making my "spring" arrive much sooner. I have so many more weeks of the year that I can spend outdoors now, not only for activities but also just sitting on my porch or enjoying my yard.

Figured I'd brain-dump my own experiences with the method because you are correct: it isn't something to do half-assed. You can possibly make yourself sick / get frostbite by rushing at the beginning, but thankfully this isn't a high-risk method. Majority of people aren't going to grit their teeth and push to the point of frostbite when starting out.

Your calisthenics routine is beautiful! I am patiently working myself in such a direction, doing heavy bodyweight lifts / presses but I do not have the stability and strength in certain muscle chains to do em all. I'm very fond of calisthenics now that I'm not too fat to do them.


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:33 am 


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DDDP wrote:
I'd liken Wim Hof / cold training to a person who cannot touch their toes. That person hopes to gain the flexibility to not only touch toes, but to pancake stretch. Gaining this flexibility is attainable within a few weeks/months of daily stretching (assuming no major injuries along the way) but when the person is first trying to touch their toes and cannot, the goal feels very far away. The simple rule for this person would be "try to touch your toes every day, but DON'T bounce and FORCE it!" and they will reach their goal in a few weeks.

In the same way, try to suffer the cold every day, but DON'T SHIVER!

The goal is to overcome the cold with your rate of body-heat generation, not to shiver in agony. Once the brown fat is patiently built up, you will genuinely feel "fine" near-naked at 32F or below for sustained periods of time, without frostbite or sickness. This is also when ice baths are on the table. The breathing routine isn't necessary but it helps, since the body-heat consumes a lot of oxygen (1 liter of oxygen consumed = 5 calories burned). Some folks do it just for the calorie burn, which adds up significantly over time. Just make sure to check your windchill chart. :lol:

When you shiver (more than just an involuntary shudder, but sustained muscle shivering), you're done. It means your Brown Fat is unable to keep up with the cold. Try again later that day, or tomorrow. Put the jacket back on. Turn the shower back up. Go back inside. Whatever. Shivering means your set is finished. Over time, the onset of shivering will become more sporadic and will stop appearing at higher temps entirely. The reduction of shivering intensity / sensitivity is your main indicator of improvement since the brown fat itself won't be noticeable on your body, not even if you have low bodyfat %.

Supplement with cold showers. Some people are horrified at the idea. A slower and easier method is to follow the cold weather (dropping from 60s to 50s, acclimate, then follow the 50s down into the 40s, and onward). During Autumn, you can acclimate yourself by the time freezing temps show up. My standard Winter test is to roll shirtless/shorts in the first snow for 5 to 10 minutes (usually calling my kids over to point and laugh) to see if I shiver.

The biggest payoff for me isn't health, but time. As a kid anything in the low 60F range was "jacket weather", and mid 40s and below was too cold without heavier coats. Now, I can play sports / outdoors all the way down to the high 30s without effort, extending my "summer" much further into the year and making my "spring" arrive much sooner. I have so many more weeks of the year that I can spend outdoors now, not only for activities but also just sitting on my porch or enjoying my yard.

Figured I'd brain-dump my own experiences with the method because you are correct: it isn't something to do half-assed. You can possibly make yourself sick / get frostbite by rushing at the beginning, but thankfully this isn't a high-risk method. Majority of people aren't going to grit their teeth and push to the point of frostbite when starting out.

Your calisthenics routine is beautiful! I am patiently working myself in such a direction, doing heavy bodyweight lifts / presses but I do not have the stability and strength in certain muscle chains to do em all. I'm very fond of calisthenics now that I'm not too fat to do them.


Thank you so much for the cold write up. You took something I knew little about and made it very easy to understand. Might give this a try sooner (within the next 12 months) rather than later.

Thanks for the kind words. Its been about five and a half years since I started the program I'm on. I've had lots of victories (these are fewer and farther between as you get stronger), a few setbacks (inevitable, but not the end of the world), and while I've revised it more than a few times the core has always been the same.

I remember back when I would wobble terribly trying a half pistol, or the first time I tried a lever push up I couldn't get back up. I was thrilled I even made it down!

Getting full ROM hspu is my final boss. It shouldn't have taken me this much time, but it has, and that's ok. I think I'm finally on my way.

It has been a really good week. The decline archers went far better than anticipated. After figuring out some logistics i did 7 on each side. Then 13 on my right (most I ever did on the ground), and 10 on my left. Very pleased!
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:30 am 



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Stevens wrote:
Thank you so much for the cold write up. You took something I knew little about and made it very easy to understand. Might give this a try sooner (within the next 12 months) rather than later.

Thanks for the kind words. Its been about five and a half years since I started the program I'm on. I've had lots of victories (these are fewer and farther between as you get stronger), a few setbacks (inevitable, but not the end of the world), and while I've revised it more than a few times the core has always been the same.

I remember back when I would wobble terribly trying a half pistol, or the first time I tried a lever push up I couldn't get back up. I was thrilled I even made it down!

Getting full ROM hspu is my final boss. It shouldn't have taken me this much time, but it has, and that's ok. I think I'm finally on my way.

It has been a really good week. The decline archers went far better than anticipated. After figuring out some logistics i did 7 on each side. Then 13 on my right (most I ever did on the ground), and 10 on my left. Very pleased!

Maybe you mentioned it in previous convo w the other users but why are you doing decline archers? Working towards stronger archers in and of themselves or moving toward a higher progression / form?

Handstand pushups and handstands on the rings (both out of reach for me, currently) have been on my mind ever since I added ring dips to the weekly rotation. Heard a quip that "dips are like the squats of the upper body", and it got the wheels turning about how I haven't worked much on my downward or overhead pressing STR compared to other muscle chains. Hence, handstands entered the picture a few months ago.

My big hurdle (self inflicted) is that I already do a ton of shoulder stuff (rings, kettlebells, medballs, boxing) so the handstand drills interfere / fatigue these same chains unless I pull something out for the day/week. Impatience and failure to commit fully, is what it boils down to. I've been doing candlesticks and inverse ring-hangs to at least condition my trunk to hold the proper form. I think my torso is the second-biggest weak link in my handstand chain, the lack of overhead shoulder pressing/stability STR being the main weakness right now.

Setting aside the limits from diagnosis / advice at a distance, since you've already gone through the handstand progression I wondered if this made sense and if you had any insight.


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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:30 pm 


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DDDP wrote:

Maybe you mentioned it in previous convo w the other users but why are you doing decline archers? Working towards stronger archers in and of themselves or moving toward a higher progression / form?

Handstand pushups and handstands on the rings (both out of reach for me, currently) have been on my mind ever since I added ring dips to the weekly rotation. Heard a quip that "dips are like the squats of the upper body", and it got the wheels turning about how I haven't worked much on my downward or overhead pressing STR compared to other muscle chains. Hence, handstands entered the picture a few months ago.

My big hurdle (self inflicted) is that I already do a ton of shoulder stuff (rings, kettlebells, medballs, boxing) so the handstand drills interfere / fatigue these same chains unless I pull something out for the day/week. Impatience and failure to commit fully, is what it boils down to. I've been doing candlesticks and inverse ring-hangs to at least condition my trunk to hold the proper form. I think my torso is the second-biggest weak link in my handstand chain, the lack of overhead shoulder pressing/stability STR being the main weakness right now.

Setting aside the limits from diagnosis / advice at a distance, since you've already gone through the handstand progression I wondered if this made sense and if you had any insight.


My current goal is to progress to one arm push ups. Even though I can do a fair amount of archers it seems when I remove my straight arm from the floor I have stability issues. Sliding 1 arms were my original plan, but they cause too much discomfort in my right wrist, so decline archers it is for now.

Yeah I absolutely understand where you are coming from. You're thinking "I want to add this and this and this and this and this", but all these moves are:

A - Taxing

B - Taxing the same muscles groups

You really have to pick and choose what you want to work on after a certain point. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but sufficient rest and recovery is paramount.

I would suggest working on A and B movements (one, def not more than two) until you get sufficiently strong at them. I would say make these the movements you are already more proficient in as it will lay a solid foundation to move on from.
At that point move onto C and D as your work sets (two to three sets) but do maintenance on A and B (one good set/week should do for maintenance). For example I only do one set of pistol squats on each side per week, but am still able to add a rep ever week or two.

Hope this was helpful, let me know what you decide to do and if you need anything else.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:38 am 


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Stevens wrote:
Not sure if you mentioned it earlier, have you ever considered cooking most of your food on one day and then eating it during the week?

I thought I'd give this a try after reading your post and it worked pretty well! Made a big batch of vegan taco filling (black beans, sweet potatoes, onions) and a pot of hot & sour soup that I dipped into over the past week.
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:00 am 


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Hello Monday. You're a rest day. How I take advantage? Get up an hour later: )
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 Post subject: Re: Weightlifting/exercise thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:27 pm 



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It's still very hot here, so training outside is easy (well, sort of...).

i am procrastinating about a full post reporting the new schedule. I want to finish the fourth week and see where I am at, progress-wise.
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