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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:29 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
I saw the UK guy referred to as metric system Trump. Made me laugh at least. What version of Trump is Bolsonaro?


We use imperial tho...


Even worse -- you use both.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:27 pm 


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http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Wuhan,-e ... 49673.html
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:30 am 


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XtraSmiley wrote:
Crazy like a fox my friend, like a fox. Between you, they guy who worked in a "SCIF" for a few years and a couple of others, this thread is delivering!


Obviously you don't have to believe me, and I won't make any effort to convince you. A few people here know me personally and could vouch if they feel like it. I'm just giving a perspective you won't hear from most other people on the "just a flu" line. Which is obviously bullshit to anyone that's paying attention, but dangerous bullshit as people could act upon it and contribute to the spread of this novel virus we don't have a vaccine for.

GaijinPunch wrote:
What in the fuck are you talking about now?


Don't tell me you don't know that the biggest companies in the world are all deep in the pockets of the Pentagon. Don't you work in finance or something? Haven't you ever wondered why Google changed their name to Alphabet out of the blue? This is basic stuff man.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:35 am 


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cj iwakura wrote:
This board's been the only place where I've been able to read some positive news, so I hope the notion of China and Korea being out of the woods is the light at the end of the tunnel for us. I'm literally surrounded by it at work(911), so I'll take all the optimism I can get.


Thank you for what you're doing. In general, but especially now. I know some first responders in NYC and what they're telling me is indeed grim. I'm sure you've probably been told to already, but in case you haven't, wear at least an N95 mask at all times, and try to get as many people at work to do so as well. That should really go for everyone, despite what the Surgeon General said about masks not being effective.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:28 pm 


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quash wrote:
cj iwakura wrote:
This board's been the only place where I've been able to read some positive news, so I hope the notion of China and Korea being out of the woods is the light at the end of the tunnel for us. I'm literally surrounded by it at work(911), so I'll take all the optimism I can get.


Thank you for what you're doing. In general, but especially now. I know some first responders in NYC and what they're telling me is indeed grim. I'm sure you've probably been told to already, but in case you haven't, wear at least an N95 mask at all times, and try to get as many people at work to do so as well. That should really go for everyone, despite what the Surgeon General said about masks not being effective.

Nah, I freely accepted that we're already screwed. Too many people don't wear them. We sanitize the desks and stuff, but it's inevitable, so I'm not stressing. I could just as easily get it when going out to the store or something.

Appreciate the thoughts though. The people on the field have it way worse than we do.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:38 pm 


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quash wrote:
Don't you work in finance or something? Haven't you ever wondered why Google changed their name to Alphabet out of the blue? This is basic stuff man.


Guess I'm still waiting for the dick measuring in the south china sea to start WWIII.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:45 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Guess I'm still waiting for the dick measuring in the south china sea to start WWIII.


The stage has been set for over a decade now, all that's been needed is a spark. Of course with Chinese coopting of US institutions and their aggressive propaganda campaign, we may never see them held to account. The line must go up and we must have more cheap things, and if you disagree you're racist.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:43 am 


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quash wrote:
The stage has been set for over a decade now, all that's been needed is a spark. Of course with Chinese coopting of US institutions and their aggressive propaganda campaign, we may never see them held to account. The line must go up and we must have more cheap things, and if you disagree you're racist.


Tokyo is overdue for an Earth shattering earthquake by at least 10 years by the most conservative counts. Nobody gives a shit if it doesn't happen though.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:20 am 


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So Ive been sick the past 3 weeks, maybe I'll come back to those details...
I've appreciated reading many of your posts, especially Randoramas, thank you.
I didn't follow-up to post because I (wasn't feeling well, and) didn't feel like bickering, but these comments directled to me below needed some follow-up:

spmbx wrote:
To me this seems more of a conservative<->liberal left<->right thread with some corona sauce on top than a genuine corona thread.

Do you see now how the situation is very political?
I shared my personal experience and asked for others to share theirs. I wasn’t starting a scientific research thread or whatever you think a “genuine corona thread” should be.

brentsg wrote:
Yeah this reads more like a political OP than a virus thread.

When a large portion of my coworkers (and nation) approached this situation with ignorance and dismissiveness which was directly fed to them by our president and the right-wing media they tune into, how is it not political? It isn’t exclusively political, but don’t play like there is something wrong with mentioning political elements.

MintyTheCat wrote:
Koa Zo wrote:
Yeah, that's what I've been getting - that people are cynical and dismissive of it based on the predictable media marketing of fear.
But my impression is this is different and more substantial already than H1N1, SARS, Hantavirus etc. The breadth with which it has spread in brief time is alarming. None of those other epidemics caused such growing disruption on such a scale. The media and internet aren't creating that.

Your memory is short: rewind back to the SARs and Bird Flu *armageddon* - last time.

No my memory wasn’t short. I was correct and you were sure wrong about this one – which anyone who didn’t have their head up their ass should have seen by the time I originally posted.

MintyTheCat wrote:
Koa Zo wrote:
Perhaps mine and many other's fears are being manipulated by political narratives. But indeed the lack of cogent leadership in the United States, coupled with our eroded social safety net is entirely unnerving. People have already been on edge and at odds thanks to our president.

Now you really are talking out of your arse. The president or anyone else is not responsible for your thinking and your behaving sanely, and they can do what ever they wish to do but it doesn't change anything : you are still you and you can use your own mind.

What exactly in my post gave you the judgment that I was behaving insanely?
What is there that is “talking out my arse?” I don’t follow your assumptions and condescension.

MintyTheCat wrote:
Weak Boson wrote:
My understanding is that while it is a serious illness unless you are old or have some preexisting complication it's highly likely that you can beat it just by taking care of yourself as you normally would when you get sick.

Exactly : once again, something blown entirely out of proportion. As an idea: more people will die through Amphetamine use than this strain of the flu.
It's likely to take out a few of the oldsters sooner but for the very most part the majority will survive this like they have every other *major threat* to humanity, but, alas the Tabloids need something - anything to keep us all hooked. It's not worth worrying about.

Wait, now who was talking out of their ass? “It’s not worth worrying about.”?? You arrogant twit.

So, on anther note, as the deaths pile-up we'll be hearing of more and more people we know of, and our family and relatives and neighbors as well.
Keeping this videogame focused, I just caught wind of our first loss: Ken Shimura of Kata & Ken PC-Engine fame has succumbed to pneumonia as caused by COVID-19.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:40 am 


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I happened to read in a New York Times article about emerging research that is struggling to answer the question of why some people have much less severe symptoms.

Since a coronavirus is an entire class/species of virus, they can cause more than one type of illness. The article speculated that those who have been infected by a non-CoViD-19 coronavirus in the recent past will develop partial immunity to CoViD-19.

Typically, coronaviruses cause respiratory infections, but a whole host of other viruses also make their living by latching onto human respiratory cells, causing colds and whatever other symptoms are associated with the immune system guarding the respiratory system.

That's why it's luck whether or not you develop severe symptoms: A cold that you might've had in the past several years might've been caused by a rhinovirus, or an adenovirus, or a coronavirus, because they can all cause cold symptoms.

Coronaviruses do seem to have one unique symptom: 30% report a deadening of the senses of taste and smell, and not just because of a stuffed nose. The senses there are muted.

Children are thought to be largely unaffected because they are in the midst of catching tons of colds early in life, some of them being caused by a coronavirus-class virus.

Immunity or partial immunity from coronaviruses is thought to last between 8-10 (SARS) and 2-3 (MERS) years.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:33 am 


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Coronavirus claimed a country music star of the 90's within the last 24 hours, singer named Joe Diffie. He had that song about propping him up besides a jukebox when he dies.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:29 pm 


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ZacharyB wrote:
Since a coronavirus is an entire class/species of virus, they can cause more than one type of illness. The article speculated that those who have been infected by a non-CoViD-19 coronavirus in the recent past will develop partial immunity to CoViD-19.


This is the part that has me taking this quite seriously. I don't get sick that often -- I average about 1.5 sick days a year, and usually one of them is me being overly cautious. I get ill... I sleep the entire day... I'm back at work the next day. My GF gets the same sickness in the same month sometimes. (She works w/ kids, so not a huge surprise). I'll sleep right next to her and am fine. So this has my brain going in two directions. A) I'll have mild coronavirus symptoms b/c of my natural strong immune system. B) It'll fuck me up b/c I really don't have a strong immune system - I just don't catch her cooties. Of course, no solid answers.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:14 pm 


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Koa Zo wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:
Weak Boson wrote:
My understanding is that while it is a serious illness unless you are old or have some preexisting complication it's highly likely that you can beat it just by taking care of yourself as you normally would when you get sick.

Exactly : once again, something blown entirely out of proportion. As an idea: more people will die through Amphetamine use than this strain of the flu.
It's likely to take out a few of the oldsters sooner but for the very most part the majority will survive this like they have every other *major threat* to humanity, but, alas the Tabloids need something - anything to keep us all hooked. It's not worth worrying about.

Wait, now who was talking out of their ass? “It’s not worth worrying about.”?? You arrogant twit.

So, on anther note, as the deaths pile-up we'll be hearing of more and more people we know of, and our family and relatives and neighbors as well.
Keeping this videogame focused, I just caught wind of our first loss: Ken Shimura of Kata & Ken PC-Engine fame has succumbed to pneumonia as caused by COVID-19.


Most of your posts and such are similar so I shall answer one.

It has a mortality-rate of around 0.1% and for the very most part it affects oldsters significantly more than everyone else.

It has an infection rate of 1: 2.3 they believe.

When all is said and done, and this is a large criticism of mostly you Americans: you quickly turn absolutely everything into some kind of political statement. This tell me that your system is not working and that instead of sitting around online and talking total shit that it would be way more useful for you to look into the facts.

Yes, it will kill off a few, yes, it will be a tragedy. But....people keep freaking out, buying everything and potentially revolting and causing riots is what worries me far, far more. This appears to be about twice as infectious as the other SARs like viruses that we've had. It is not as lethal as say Ebola though but it is more infectious.

Let's stick to the facts as opposed to all this mindless bullshit that you Americans (not all Americans but plenty of you) keeping babbling on about.

We've had some of you lot tell us that it was man-made and lots of other borderline paranoid conspiracies.

I've said it before: conspiracies are cheap.

Simply focus on the facts, look at the statistics and the incidence of death within segments of the population.

As it stands at present the number of deaths attributed to C19 are about 10% of the annual drug abuse related deaths in the US and let's not even begin to consider just how many of you lot shoot yourself, your neighbours, friends, family, colleagues and general public. I bet that guns alone in your amazing country kill way more, year on year than C19 will ever begin to hope it can - gain some context and submit to perspective, please - you have bigger problems in sheer deaths spread across the board.
If you look at previous pandemics you may well find that they rise, continue then drop off. Have a good look at that, take a deep breathe and for heaven's sake stop babbling on about your effing president - you lot voted the tosser on after all and to be honest most of us are sick and tired of hearing how fucked your system is - we know this and this is why many of us have no great desire to live there.

Disclaimer: I have mates from the US but this inward looking over-emphasis on the US bores the living shit out of me. And whilst we're at it: I'm bored of hearing how awesome China is too. As good as it gets is over here in Euroland when all is said and done: fewer deaths, better welfare, better education and a better standard of living, and yet we don't harp on about it all day long and blame our president for this, that and the other.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:34 pm 


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Bloodreign wrote:
Coronavirus claimed a country music star of the 90's within the last 24 hours, singer named Joe Diffie. He had that song about propping him up besides a jukebox when he dies.


Thought this was a joke and had to check wikipedia...

Fuck.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:46 pm 


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After his documented long term struggles with lung cancer, Diffie was vulnerable to complications from any infection that could cause pneumonia. Also unclear if he was currently being treated for cancer.

The press loves to print names and put Covid-19 in the headlines. They don't like to share details.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:16 pm 


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MintyTheCat wrote:
...

90+% of what you wrote does not pertain to anything I've posted or commented, nor my personal experiences or viewpoints. Feel free to point out one single unfactual thing I wrote.
You make a ton of assumptions about me apparently, and you obviously have wide ranging prejudice toward Americans.
Spare me your assumptions and greater than thou personality.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:11 pm 


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MintyTheCat wrote:
When all is said and done, and this is a large criticism of mostly you Americans: you quickly turn absolutely everything into some kind of political statement.


I'll start by saying that this is absolutely not the time for politicking, internally at least. For that matter, downplaying the seriousness of this virus has been as bipartisan as it gets. Yes, Trump downplayed it for longer than he should have to keep markets happy and he shouldn't have done that. You also have left leaning people who claim it's not a big deal and that everything should remain open. I've also seen people of both persuasions appreciate the gravity of the situation, so I think pinning any given response to a particular side of the spectrum is a low resolution view of things.

As an aside, you're making a political statement by pinning this on Americans, but I'll let it slide because you're correct on this.

Quote:
Yes, it will kill off a few, yes, it will be a tragedy. But....people keep freaking out, buying everything and potentially revolting and causing riots is what worries me far, far more.


The only reason the response would be worse than the virus is if our currently existing system is ill equipped for it. America is sitting at 3 hospital beds per 1000 people, an absolutely abysmal state of affairs that transcends whoever happens to be in office right now. Plenty of administrations have had ample time to help improve the state of things but didn't choose to do so. Again, ineptitude is bipartisan.

Quote:
Let's stick to the facts as opposed to all this mindless bullshit that you Americans (not all Americans but plenty of you) keeping babbling on about.

We've had some of you lot tell us that it was man-made and lots of other borderline paranoid conspiracies.


Hi. Yes, based partially on scientific evidence and partially on circumstantial evidence, I am currently of the opinion that this is a man made virus. I could link you to some of the scientific evidence that has led me to this view if you'd like, but obviously I am not a virologist and I'm willing to bet you aren't either. As it stands, even the experts can't agree on what exactly it is we're dealing with. Which leads me to...

Quote:
Simply focus on the facts, look at the statistics and the incidence of death within segments of the population.


This is exactly the attitude that leads to delayed responses, ridiculous measures, and lost lives. We don't know all of the facts about this virus. We didn't a few weeks ago and we still don't. A lot of people downplayed it as a result, and look where we are now in Italy and NYC.

I'm not against looking at the facts as they are currently presented, but you have to keep in perspective that this is an ever changing situation, and as such, what is widely accepted as fact could end up being rendered moot for a number of reasons. Perhaps the information we have now is 100% factual, but only 25% of the picture. Perhaps the information we have now isn't 100% factual and we end up learning that the hard way. To emphasize, we don't know everything yet, and to act like we do is foolish. We have a few things we do know for sure and everything else is being built upon that foundation right now. Vaccines aren't coming for an estimated 12-18 months for a reason.

BTW, if you're from the UK, you've lost any moral high ground over the US on this issue, because your government actually suggested herd immunity via mass infection against a novel virus. I don't wanna hear a fucking peep about the US response if that's the level of understanding your government has.

Quote:
As it stands at present the number of deaths attributed to C19 are about 10% of the annual drug abuse related deaths in the US


Whatever you do, don't Google the Sackler family. :lol:

Quote:
and let's not even begin to consider just how many of you lot shoot yourself, your neighbours, friends, family, colleagues and general public. I bet that guns alone in your amazing country kill way more, year on year than C19 will ever begin to hope it can - gain some context and submit to perspective, please - you have bigger problems in sheer deaths spread across the board.


What was that about turning everything into a political statement? :lol:

Again, whatever you do, don't Google what drugs mass shooters tend to be on, or gun violence per capita, or demographics of street gangs.

Quote:
As good as it gets is over here in Euroland when all is said and done: fewer deaths, better welfare, better education and a better standard of living, and yet we don't harp on about it all day long and blame our president for this, that and the other.


If your country is part of NATO, allow me the opportunity to say: "You're welcome". :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:40 pm 


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Koa Zo wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:
...

90+% of what you wrote does not pertain to anything I've posted or commented, nor my personal experiences or viewpoints. Feel free to point out one single unfactual thing I wrote.
You make a ton of assumptions about me apparently, and you obviously have wide ranging prejudice toward Americans.
Spare me your assumptions and greater than thou personality.

Read the thread and split the comments between US and the rest: no europeans are sprouting off ridiculous conspiracy theories or conflating this as being all so very political - it is a pandemic when all is said and done.

And no, I like some Americans but not all of you lot with your 'outward looking in' stance.

We are greater than thou - we have better health care systems for a start and way more equality - check the score.

Whilst you were ill, I was looking at the data that they have released: I sat down for two days reading papers and looking at the profiles of mortality. I want to know how it will work, how many will die and from this I can then work out how it will impact the systems in place. Which is way, way, way more useful than all this talk of politics and 'man made virus/etc.'. And, I have pretty much stayed at home since the 14th of March - I only leave the house to buy food once every 5 days or so, and I only go out just before the Shops close so as to steer clear of lots of people. That's in my book a more responsible action than all this fear mongering. Stick to the facts, stick to the statistics and work out how the thing works instead of veering off into Voodoo Land and cheap conspiracies, you lot.

And Quash: you're the worst - you are manufacturing long-winded, total bollocks in this thread. If you are going to make ridiculous claims about C19 being 'man made' just stop and think for a moment: if that were the case we'd have something way more effective, and don't give me the whole 'only targeting the old therefore conspiracy' malarky - there are substantially more effective ways to thin the numbers in any population than something that has a rate of mortality around 0.2-0.1% for a start.

I do not live in the UK, and no, I do not agree with how lax the UK Government has been in handling this either - another reason that I do not live in the UK and pay taxes as, like your country, I do not believe in the system on offer and I upped sticks and left a long time ago.

And no: they may not have Vaccines for a long time - Ebola took nearly 20 years was it - 18? No Vaccine against SARS as I understand it, so don't expect a quick solution. Instead......folks....pay attention to how every single other Pandemic has behaved. It has a quick, sharp effect then it peters out. Right now, I regard the very devastating Spanish-Flu with its 2.2% mortality-rate as being a more effective mass killer. But, the conditions are not the same now as they were then.

I've seen people state that it has a truly devastating mortality-rate of 10% but this is not the case.
I do not believe what I am told, but I will look directly at the data myself, and for the record: no, I do not in any way trust the Chinese Government and it's data - there's another politically motivated entity that presents illusion over facts.

Let's hold tight, remain vigilant, keep our eyes on the numbers and pay attention to the models that end up being developed as we collectively understand this.

It's easy to freak, blame the system or what ever but it doesn't achieve anything. Even when many are going nuts, people have to keep their heads together and not succumb to baseless crap churned. the Virus itself does not give a flying shit about politics or conspiracies - it obeys certain rules, and these are the rules that must be found.
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Last edited by MintyTheCat on Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:07 pm 


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Gotta love how basically everyone agrees that China's numbers are bullshit, but to even point out that the only level 4 virology lab in the country just happens to be in the epicenter? Too far man, too far. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:10 pm 



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MintyTheCat wrote:
Words, words, logical words...


Come on man, don't damper the crazy talk in here with logic and reason, it's my daily dose of non-gaming entertainment...


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:45 pm 


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XtraSmiley wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:
Words, words, logical words...


Come on man, don't damper the crazy talk in here with logic and reason, it's my daily dose of non-gaming entertainment...


The only thing that you need to worry about is how the Deaths to Total-Recovered cases stack up per country:

Code:
Country   Total Recovered   Total Deaths   Rec : Death   total cases   Total % cum. Deaths
Italy   14620   11591   14620:11591   26211   44.2218915722407
Spain   16780   7716   4195:1929   24496   31.4990202482038
France   7927   3024   7927:3024   10951   27.6139165373025
UK   135   1408   135:1408   1543   91.250810110175
Switzerland   1823   359   1823:359   2182   16.4527956003666
South Korea   5228   158   2614:79   5386   2.93353137764575
Germany   13500   645   900:43   14145   4.55991516436904
USA   5245   2968   5245:2968   8213   36.1378302690856
China   75700   3304   18925:826   79004   4.18206673079844
Iran   13911   2757   4637:919   16668   16.5406767458603


As a Graph:

Image

The 'winner' in the poor-performers category is thus far the UK - that's 10+ years of poor structural investment at play.
If we compare the UK to Germany, which presents 66,885 active cases to the UK's 22,141, yet Germany has :

Code:
UK : 135:1408

DE : 900:43


The cases count has the effect of loading the system and it appears that if you succumb to the Virus and need to be in critical care then it takes between 2 to 3 weeks before you either die or recover and leave hospital and free up resources. But, the total collection of resources changes: staff get ill, equipment fails, supplies run out and are not replaced in time, etc. All in all, you end up with a serious sliding scale and this has the effect of masking the true 'mortality-rate'. Simply put: as the number of cases rises, you can die outright from the Virus but the contextual effects play out against - analogy: more likely to be stabbed to death in high violent crime part of town than a 'nice part' of town due to local context of higher violent crime incidences.

Which if this continues states that if you end up in hospital in the UK instead of Germany through this Virus that you are way, way more likely to die. I do not think that Germans are more bullet-proof than UK citizens, but I do believe that one country invested in its system of welfare and the other did not.

Of course, no system is set up for pandemic for the most part, and so poorer maintained health care systems feels the effects sooner than well funded ones, and, Germany is an outright winner.
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Last edited by MintyTheCat on Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:01 pm 


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MintyTheCat wrote:
XtraSmiley wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:
Words, words, logical words...


Come on man, don't damper the crazy talk in here with logic and reason, it's my daily dose of non-gaming entertainment...


The only thing that you need to worry about is how the Deaths to Total-Recovered cases stack up per country:

Code:
Country   Total Recovered   Total Deaths   Rec : Death   total cases   Total % cum. Deaths
Italy   14620   11591   14620:11591   26211   44.2218915722407
Spain   16780   7716   4195:1929   24496   31.4990202482038
France   7927   3024   7927:3024   10951   27.6139165373025
UK   135   1408   135:1408   1543   91.250810110175
Switzerland   1823   359   1823:359   2182   16.4527956003666
South Korea   5228   158   2614:79   5386   2.93353137764575
Germany   13500   645   900:43   14145   4.55991516436904
USA   5245   2968   5245:2968   8213   36.1378302690856
China   75700   3304   18925:826   79004   4.18206673079844
Iran   13911   2757   4637:919   16668   16.5406767458603


The 'winner' in the poor-performers category is thus far the UK - that's 10+ years of poor structural investment at play.
If we compare the UK to Germany, which presents 66,885 active cases to the UK's 22,141, yet Germany has :

Code:
UK : 135:1408

DE : 900:43


Which if this continues states that if you end up in hospital in the UK instead of Germany through this Virus that you are way, way more likely to die. I do not think that Germans are more bullet-proof than UK citizens, but I do believe that one country invested in its system of welfare and the other did not.

Of course, no system is set up for pandemic for the most part, and so poorer maintained health care systems feels the effects sooner than well funded ones, and, Germany is an outright winner.


bollocks

Germany has less chance of parents sharing housing with their children. Testing is also being conducted differently in each nation. You're also comparing numbers fairly early in the process. There's so much going on, there.

I have few doubts that Germany will have better overall outcomes, but I question how large the gap will be.

Furthermore, when the entire ordeal is over with, almost all the deaths will be among people that would have died within a few months, anyhow. So, the "death" totals "from Covid-19" will be inherently misleading.

Kinda like when a country music guy that has been battling lung cancer for years dies "from Covid-19". He may have been in hospice for all we know.

Usually, we say a person dies from "complications of cancer" in this situation; however, it's now fashionable to simply say he was struck down in his prime "from cornavirus"!!!! OMG!!! Ahhh!!!
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:03 pm 


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That's some great data and it's in line with what I've read so far, but you are nuts if you actually think this is the only data point worth worrying about. There's reportedly 40 mutations of the virus in Iceland alone, which should be enough to have anyone worried about this.

Like I've been saying, the problem is not what we know today, but what we may find out tomorrow. By the time you're done collecting all these data points, things could already be much worse. I suppose things could slightly improve as well, but it's not worth betting the house on. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:11 pm 


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orange808 wrote:

bollocks

Germany has less chance of parents sharing housing with their children. Testing is also being conducted differently in each nation. You're also comparing numbers fairly early in the process. There's so much going on, there.

I have few doubts that Germany will have better overall outcomes, but I question how large the gap will be.

Furthermore, when the entire ordeal is over with, almost all the deaths will be among people that would have died within a few months, anyhow. So, the "death" totals "from Covid-19" will be inherently misleading.

Kinda like when a country music guy that has been battling lung cancer for years dies "from Covid-19". He may have been in hospice for all we know.

Usually, we say a person dies from "complications of cancer" in this situation; however, it's now fashionable to simply say he was struck down in his prime "from cornavirus"!!!! OMG!!! Ahhh!!!

Er, no, we do not all live alone over here. Indeed, but testing and policy are in part a function of investment/funding - the UK has run out of even the basics - a BDSM wholesaler even gifted the NHS rubber gear for fuck's sake: https://www.rt.com/uk/484377-fetish-company-scrubs-nhs/

The company is quoted here:

Spoiler: show
Quote:
hese aren’t the ‘sexy’ Ann Summers nurse costumes you might see on Halloween night. Instead, they’re actual sterilized medical scrubs, usually sold to people whose idea of a quiet night inside involves forceps, catheters, and amateur proctology. The company’s ‘needle play’ range is among its most popular.

In making its announcement, the company lashed out at “chronic underfunding and cuts” to the NHS. It said that these cuts “sent the NHS into this battle with inadequate armour and one hand tied behind its back.”

Fucking yes!


If you get ill and you need hospital treament and the ICU, well, Germany simply has more resources than the UK - a function of investment - that's clear.

Sure, oldsters: they come under the general category of being an 'oldster' - if you are an oldster AND have underlying immune issues then yes, the probability of dying from this goes up. I hate to call this, but... Think of it as a sort of macabre Spring Clean.

Right now, the actual mortality-rate of C19 is masked but it should NOT be a 10% mortality-rate - that would be in a different league to anything else if that were so.

Yes, I am comparing the stats as it goes because it is an on-going process that's threatening the way of life for most of us right now. We can only understand it by paying the right kind of attention to it at the right time. I cannot sit around and wait for it to be all over, and so the rates of death, survival and profiles are all a work in progress.

Germany has nearly 3 times the number of active cases compared to the UK - how is that all due to 'all the germans living alone and the brits living in close-knit families'? This is based of actual cases and the outcomes over time, and, Germany got hit sooner and with more weight than the UK, so you would expect Germany to have had a much higher death rate due to C19. I am not following your reasoning here.

Quote:
f we compare the UK to Germany, which presents 66,885 active cases to the UK's 22,141, yet Germany has :

Code:
UK : 135:1408

DE : 900:43

Code:
 DE : UK
Cases: 66.89K : 22.14K
Recoveries: 13.5K : 135 !!!!!!!
Deaths: 645: 1.41K


The UK's scores are fucking scary.
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Last edited by MintyTheCat on Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:38 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:15 pm 


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quash wrote:
That's some great data and it's in line with what I've read so far, but you are nuts if you actually think this is the only data point worth worrying about. There's reportedly 40 mutations of the virus in Iceland alone, which should be enough to have anyone worried about this.

Like I've been saying, the problem is not what we know today, but what we may find out tomorrow. By the time you're done collecting all these data points, things could already be much worse. I suppose things could slightly improve as well, but it's not worth betting the house on. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Given time it'll mutate to being less fatal - this has been the trend for all pandemics, and so, unless this thing comes from Mars it is MORE likely to behave similarly.

Do not worry about multiple strains: the way that it connects to the human system is the same. And, it will mutate to a lesser form over time and we will all eventually become immune to it.

Listen, matey, this isn't some kind of church debating group - this is raw statistics, and, although we may be in part wrong over all, we will not be several orders wrong AND that matters. I want to know: is it a mortality-rate of 80% like Anthrax or a lot less like the common strains of Flu? We do these projections to so that we CAN prepare.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:45 pm 


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MintyTheCat wrote:
Given time it'll mutate to being less fatal - this has been the trend for all pandemics, and so, unless this thing comes from Mars it is MORE likely to behave similarly.


Does this mean you're acknowledging that maybe it's worth looking into the virology lab conveniently located in the epicenter of this pandemic?

If the idea of it being man made is what bothers you, okay, let's say it's a naturally occurring virus that was kept in that lab and somehow got out. No conspiracy, just incompetence. Let's assume good faith even if it's undeserved. Do you think this circumstantial evidence should still be ignored?

Quote:
Do not worry about multiple strains: the way that it connects to the human system is the same.


I understand this is something that is true for many viruses, but what reason do we have to believe this is applicable here? Furthermore, who's to say that even if this is true of some strains, it can't be non-applicable to others? There's a variety of factors that could be going in to people testing negative while symptomatic then later testing positive and vice versa, but who's to say this isn't one of them?

Quote:
Listen, matey, this isn't some kind of church debating group - this is raw statistics, and, although we may be in part wrong over all, we will not be several orders wrong AND that matters.


I wish I shared your optimism. Between the rate of mutation and the decreasing average age of those being killed by it, I don't know if I can agree with this just yet. I hope you're right and I'm wrong, but I don't see any reason to be optimistic right now. We are still early in this and things can get much worse very easily. For all the hand wringing about over reacting, it's worth keeping in mind that this is not a scenario any government wants to be in. This alone gives me reason to believe things will get worse, but even on a purely scientific basis I think it's a distinct possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:26 am 


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orange808 wrote:
After his documented long term struggles with lung cancer, Diffie was vulnerable to complications from any infection that could cause pneumonia. Also unclear if he was currently being treated for cancer.

The press loves to print names and put Covid-19 in the headlines. They don't like to share details.


I think you're confusing Joe Diffie with John Prine, who is still alive but currently battling COVID-19 Symptoms. John Prine does have a history of cancer, but any searches for Joe Diffie and cancer do not come up.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:52 am 


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MintyTheCat wrote:
Read the thread and split the comments between US and the rest: no europeans are sprouting off ridiculous conspiracy theories or conflating this as being all so very political - it is a pandemic when all is said and done.


What is with your condescending assumptions? What is wrong with you? Do you have my posts confused with someone else’s? I haven’t issued any conspiracies here, guy.
For how you brag about your reading and research below (“Whilst you were ill, I was looking at the data” *you jerk off*), I’m astounded or confused as to how you treat the political dynamic so ignorantly.
What is going on in Brazil, in Spain, in Hungary, in Russia, Denmark, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Canada, Mexico, United States of America … elsewhere I’ve not yet read about – these nation’s political and media responses are having significant correlation to how well the citizenry and medical systems are faring. Is that not allowed to be discussed here without your permission?
Pandemics have many more facets than a list of statistics. There are political, and personal, and financial considerations clearly. Lives are being disrupted as well as financial, societal, and political dynamics. This thread is open to speak of those aspects as well. If you get so chapped hearing of other’s experiences, then please stay away. Get out of this thread.

MintyTheCat wrote:
We are greater than thou - we have better health care systems for a start and way more equality - check the score.

No I was talking about you, your arrogant personality. My observation isn’t about your nation, it was about you, personally.
Nice work on the dick wagging, I’m not such a prick that I "keep score", fuckface. Im well aware of healthcare and equality issues and have been for decades. Again, do you have me confused with someone else? Or do you need me to post some statistics, percentages, or a bar graph to have a legitimate post in your eyes?

MintyTheCat wrote:
Whilst you were ill, I was looking at the data that they have released: I sat down for two days reading papers and looking at the profiles of mortality. I want to know how it will work, how many will die and from this I can then work out how it will impact the systems in place. Which is way, way, way more useful than all this talk of politics and 'man made virus/etc.'. And, I have pretty much stayed at home since the 14th of March - I only leave the house to buy food once every 5 days or so, and I only go out just before the Shops close so as to steer clear of lots of people. That's in my book a more responsible action than all this fear mongering. Stick to the facts, stick to the statistics and work out how the thing works instead of veering off into Voodoo Land and cheap conspiracies, you lot.


Again, did you need me to justify and present to you some credentials before I was allowed to create a thread or post a comment about my personal experience or to show interest in other's?
Since you seem to think this is some contest: Since early January, I’ve been reading international English language newspapers on this outbreak, been following the WHO, CDC and other science and medical based articles and videos. I’ve been aware of and reading science based articles and papers of public epidemiology since 1996 – when I was staying with a friend in Med School at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor (he’d done field work in Detroit housing projects – it was his wake up call – he later continued to John Hopkins as a public epidemiologist) I’m quite aware of the statistics and I’ve spoken nothing contrary to what the statistics and research present. Thanks for wasting my time.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:44 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:19 pm 


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You completely miss the point, Koa Zo.
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