Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

TT's probably the most accessible of these three. I love 'em all but it's got instantly-apparent focus (unlike Granada) and minimally punishes at novice level (unlike KK), while packing bigger guns than either while still providing a considerable challenge. Superb game. Any fan of Ikari/Senjou no Okami who's overlooking it for the cuter aesthetic is cheating themselves! (it's not all cute either - got a nice anime Tolkienesque style that works great with the MD's muted palette)

the knife-throwing skeletons look pretty br00tal to be honest. I can actually see the agony in their face

really need to try this one, looks dope af

Yeah it packs some pretty mean bosses too, many of whom wouldn't be out of place on the most KVLT of LP covers! Summon the dead! Baphomet's call! Its crypts and necromantic shrines certainly ain't overly bright or cheery, and the bodycount will most definitely satisfy! Can you kill what's already dead? Perhaps not but they sure blow up pretty good!

throw it in the pile of games I'll never get a legit copy of along with Undeadline
investing my disposable income in other areas right naow(including music gear), games are lower on the totem pole

(be on the lookout for recordings from my black metal band soon btw)

Flashcart all this stuff imo, at least in the short term. Life's too fuckin short. There's a reason I'm still using the same shitty PC I signed up to this forum on. But starting out these days? That could lead to real damage I'm talking...

Spoiler

YOU GET NO PUSSY

There's a fuckin limit! Here's hoping the recently-grotesque market of the last several years crashes down one day, in a cataclysm to churn the stomach of the reaper himself. The fun is gone, and this fuckery also attracts counterfeiters. RIP AES

[Obiwanshinobi]

Its crypts and necromantic shrines certainly ain't overly bright or cheery, and the bodycount will most definitely satisfy!

Well, this is hilarious, if I say so.

As for any Sega console prior to 32-bit, I couldnt recommend a soft-modded Wii enough if you have a decent CRT handy.

[BIL]

I know right? Dead bodies everywhere! Sometimes, you have to kill them!

[FinalBaton]

I am indded gon get a Wii pretty soon.

Probs some Everdrive carts too later

[Arasoi]

.

[FinalBaton]

That FDS drive emulator is pretty sick!

[kitten]

Suffice to say, most of the enemies you're seeing stick around won't be doing that forever!

how do you mean? do enemies later game have less HP or something?

- - - - -

also, forgot to mention that i replayed ganbare! daiku no gen-san yesterday and immediately got a nomiss clear on that replay. thought i'd eat at least a life or two on the final boss, but i finished with him with more than half of my health left over. he's still random enough that i'd say if he pulled some bullshit, i might be unable to avoid a death, but i'd say i'm probably more likely to win than not. not sure if i'm going to record a play for this one or not - there's a lot of moments where i kinda just bumble around to check additional boxes or take hits because the life bar is so big i am not on guard. might want one for posterity, anyway, but it's not going to be a very fun watch.

it's the kind of game i feel there is an abundance of on the famicom, but is a rarity on the super famicom - a not-quite-great, but absolutely clean cut, decent action-platformer. further exploring of the sfc library has had me discover more treasure than i'd expected, but it's amazing how often a game with visual polish ends up being mediocre or even outright awful. with the fc, on the other hand, i feel like the hit rate for decency is way, way higher and that an immediately obvious visual polish is often indicative of a higher quality game. daiku no gen-san is a game that is about as good as it looks, and it's a relieving breath of fresh air to play this after something like mickey no tokyo disneyland daiboken (or dozens of other sfc platformers), which looked nice but was very quickly gratingly bad.

[BIL]

Suffice to say, most of the enemies you're seeing stick around won't be doing that forever!

how do you mean? do enemies later game have less HP or something?

No, just the natural progression of action games with aggressive powerdown on damage. More time spent at max power = more exploded boss faces. Not sure how far you've played, but stage 2's midbosses and boss are one long continuous example. None get to do much of anything when you're pasting them with max red shots. st4's battleship autoscroller is another - initially you'll get smacked around and struggle to take down everything, eventually you'll be able to mow through the lot.

Needless to say, improved player technique is a factor here too!

Kage is exactly the same in this regard, with the added pressure of ammo management. st4's turret hallway will be crept through initially. Once you can reliably reach it with a cache of grenades and a working knowledge of their patterns+hitboxes it's a slaughterfest. Natsume clearly liked this mechanic... it's in Final Mission and Shatterbrain too, and although TNWA might not appear to have it, getting knocked down less means a helluva lot more Blaster to unload on crowds and chomp down boss lifebars. Difference being TNWA's pow meter regenerates, so you can technically wait around between waves. That is, if you're a WIENER. (■｀ω´■)

[Jonny2x4]

really need to try this one, looks dope af
throw it in the pile of games I'll never get a legit copy of along with Undeadline

Undeadline on MD and Magical Chase on PCE were both by Palsoft. They weren't around for long for some reason, so their games had very small print run, although Magical Chase did get reprinted in Japan by a magazine that brought the rights to the game (Undeadline wasn't so lucky though). Wonder what happened to them? Their parent company (S.M.S.) were apparently responsible for the O'bits albums and the Ninja Ryukenden OVA interestingly enough.

[mycophobia]

Got my NG no death run! Here's the video

[BIL]

Favourite bit:

Spoiler

Probably the game's ultimate tests of swordsmanship, those counters. (I love his "oh shit!" shuffle away afterward )

6-1's exit-guarding fleaman earned his paycheck that night. One of my favourite things, defusing those fuckers. It only just now occurs to me, Act VI is fairly infested with the things, ain't it.

Nice handling of 6-2's Rocket Ninjas, no hits taken! Had no idea you could outright duck Ceiling Bird (Ceiling Bird is watching you hesitate!) - smoothly done. As always, there's so many solutions to this game's chokepoints. Surprised you didn't go for the last 6-2 HP restore! I'd have been too nervous at such low HP (then again, I was eating way too many mortar hits in my latest run).

Seems there's actually two spawn triggers at 6-3/F2's double platform jump, I notice you did't get the more troublesome Ceiling Fleaman there. For the preceding bit with the Cho Aniki Frisbee Man, I've learned to make a beeline straight at the fucker - ignore all other enemies/candles - and assassinate him with a falling Jumpslash.

Damn good handling of Jaquio, I'd never seen that approach in motion before. At a glance, maybe that should be the reference safe method, if anyone gets stuck on him in the future? Certainly simpler than the floor approach I've been a proponent of.

Had to pause and rewind midway through the Jashin fight, didn't realise he'd gotten you down that low! Good handling from there to the end. Adding to the front page now.

[kitten]

hey, congrats mycophobia!! first time i ever noticed this text error, skipping around your play lol -

Spoiler

any reason you don't do the simultaneous slash-jumps? where you slash just as you jump, so you can keep moving forward without losing momentum? i sometimes stop doing those as frequently later in the game if i'm nervous, but i can't ever stand doing the early parts without a lot of that.

- - - - -

also, i found out for the first time (maybe the first time? perhaps i'd forgotten?) that shatterhand apparently has hidden health restoring panels :O including a really useful one in the final level. how many of these are there? i know there's another in the level with the ninja as the boss, too.

there's also this weird secret where you can punch a certain wall in the opening stage and (sometimes) get a coin when it blows up.

[BIL]

also, i found out for the first time (maybe the first time? perhaps i'd forgotten?) that shatterhand apparently has hidden health restoring panels :O including a really useful one in the final level. how many of these are there? i know there's another in the level with the ninja as the boss, too.

The final stage's is still the only one I know of. Interestingly, if you use it, a few floors up when the game reloads that platform layout, the equivalent panel will be "exploded" despite it not being possible to get the HP restore at that point. IIRC, anyway!

[kitten]

interesting! i never knew about it until today, and that would have been a really nice little stress relief on my nomiss clears. last level is a brutal gauntlet, it could use a teeny bit of relief :B

there appear to be quite a few of these hidden health panels, and NES atlas helpfully marks (what is probably) each of them -

area a doesn't have one, but this marks the destructible wall. why is that there? did they originally put a secret in there?

area b has a health restore one literally inches from the boss warp

area c has a POW hidden just to the right of the boss warp (very useful! wow)

area d has a POW hidden before its boss, too - just to the right of the final spiky ball, at the bottom before the ascent up to the boss warp

area e also has a health restore on the final elevated platform just before the boss

area f has one just under the very first handgun enemy

area g also has the one we were just talking about, between the ninja refight and a bit before the health restore that comes after him. not the most useful place in the world, but i think i've had a run where i've died once just before that health restore and could have been saved by this one, instead

i still haven't recorded a nomiss for shatterhand, yet, i might end up using a couple of these to make it a little breezier.

[BrianC]

hey, congrats mycophobia!! first time i ever noticed this text error, skipping around your play lol -

Spoiler

What's this about

Spoiler

Ryu's safe

?

[kitten]

it's a you're/your mix-up, just reads a little goofy

[mycophobia]

Probably the game's ultimate tests of swordsmanship, those counters. Image (I love his "oh shit!" shuffle away afterward )

Sheer luck. Normally I would just throw the shuriken immediately but I kinda forgot what part of the level I was in for a second.

6-1's exit-guarding fleaman earned his paycheck that night.

I wanted to just spin slash through the end part there like usual but I neglected to collect any ninpo up to that point.

Surprised you didn't go for the last 6-2 HP restore! I'd have been too nervous at such low HP (then again, I was eating way too many mortar hits in my latest run).

Honestly I completely forgot about it until I read this post lol.

Damn good handling of Jaquio, I'd never seen that approach in motion before. At a glance, maybe that should be the reference safe method, if anyone gets stuck on him in the future? Certainly simpler than the floor approach I've been a proponent of.

Yeah if you're willing to just take a couple of hits from the flames then it's a pretty sure fire strategy.

any reason you don't do the simultaneous slash-jumps? where you slash just as you jump, so you can keep moving forward without losing momentum? i sometimes stop doing those as frequently later in the game if i'm nervous, but i can't ever stand doing the early parts without a lot of that.

I guess it's just my preference in general towards slow, safe moves. Also I recently found out from NG speedrunning master Aquas that there's a small chance that a forward-moving jump slash just won't register because of the way the game checks collisions or something, which probably influenced my tendency toward just stopping and attacking.

Anyways thanks for the comments yall.

[kitten]

Sheer luck. Normally I would just throw the shuriken immediately but I kinda forgot what part of the level I was in for a second.

lol i do the exact same thing. have sliced his chakram out of mid-air a few times, but sometimes get pounded, sometimes remember to fire a shuriken immediately. in my recorded play, looks like i forgot he was there, but at least remembered to jump

I guess it's just my preference in general towards slow, safe moves. Also I recently found out from NG speedrunning master Aquas that there's a small chance that a forward-moving jump slash just won't register because of the way the game checks collisions or something, which probably influenced my tendency toward just stopping and attacking.

isn't there something goofy about the very first enemy in the game regarding that, too? like he's impossible to hit with a simultaneous jump slash if it's your very first move? maybe i just developed a memory of hearing about this from how many times i start a run, try to do that, and then whiff and take damage lol

[FinalBaton]

good job mycophobia *thumb's up*

[BrianC]

it's a you're/your mix-up, just reads a little goofy

I know. I was joking about how it was with a word with two different meanings, which makes the mix up even funnier.

[BIL]

I guess it's just my preference in general towards slow, safe moves. Also I recently found out from NG speedrunning master Aquas that there's a small chance that a forward-moving jump slash just won't register because of the way the game checks collisions or something, which probably influenced my tendency toward just stopping and attacking.

isn't there something goofy about the very first enemy in the game regarding that, too? like he's impossible to hit with a simultaneous jump slash if it's your very first move? maybe i just developed a memory of hearing about this from how many times i start a run, try to do that, and then whiff and take damage lol

I'm 99% certain it's got nothing to do with the enemy himself. Rather, there's a chance your very first sword slash in a run won't register - I read that once in a TASer's notes, and have always started runs with a couple warmup slashes since, just in case. I notice other players doing the same, like bubufubu in his one-hit run.

AFAIK it doesn't happen otherwise. If you're whiffing slashes beyond the first, that's just bad technique and/or mistake.

Coincidentally, Shatterhand/Solbrain has a similar glitch. No matter how briefly you hit the button, even if you're using 30hz autofire, your first jump upon starting a stage will always be max height. Again, you can notice me shaking it out at the start of each stage in my 1LC.

[kitten]

AFAIK it doesn't happen otherwise. If you're whiffing slashes beyond the first, that's just bad technique and/or mistake.

ah, yeah, i couldn't remember properly if it was the first enemy or the first slash - this catches me off guard really frequently. i do a jump slash right at the start on the first enemy, and then end up getting hit.

Coincidentally, Shatterhand/Solbrain has a similar glitch. No matter how briefly you hit the button, even if you're using 30hz autofire, your first jump upon starting a stage will always be max height. Again, you can notice me shaking it out at the start of each stage in my 1LC.

:O i never consciously noticed this, but now that you bring it up, i think it was something i observed and never understood. this tip and the new locations of all those power-ups might make a replay a lot more exciting. i really love shatterhand immensely, it's a very big favorite. i can't believe i didn't know about this stuff!!

[__SKYe]

hey, congrats mycophobia!! first time i ever noticed this text error, skipping around your play lol -

Spoiler

What's this about

Spoiler

Ryu's safe

?

That would make Irene quite the materialistic girl.

[BIL]

:O i never consciously noticed this, but now that you bring it up, i think it was something i observed and never understood. this tip and the new locations of all those power-ups might make a replay a lot more exciting. i really love shatterhand immensely, it's a very big favorite. i can't believe i didn't know about this stuff!!

Turns out, the jump glitch is actually weirder than I recalled. First off, it's not just every new stage, but every new scene - after the midpoint fadeouts, you'll want to disarm the glitch again. Consulted my replay and sure enough, that's what I'm doing there... must've forgotten.

Secondly, if you deliberately hold the jump button, you'll execute a super jump of sorts; higher than your normal max. I wonder if this becomes a tactic at higher performance levels, haha.

Either way, I'm always glad when these things have easy workarounds! See also Metal Storm's gravity jump glitch. If you gravity jump during a screen transition, and the mech is on exactly the last frame of its rolling animation before gravity inverts, your next GJ attempt won't register - you'll just get a regular jump. Try again, or just do a normal jump (any height) beforehand, and the GJ will execute just fine. Yet again, this is why I'm seen doing a short hop at the start of each new scene in my 1LC, just to be 100% safe.

How I wish Holy Diver's godawful control issues could be disarmed similarly. Mostly, I just wish that game had received playtesting worth a damn. I seem to pick up on this stuff like lint on velcro.

Speaking of that... for a more recent finding, NES/FC Double Dragon II's controls are sadly pretty glitchy as well, when put under close scrutiny. Buttons don't register during the "sliding stop" when you let off the dpad, and the punch/kick layout takes a split-second to catch up with a turning player. For the former, you need to keep the dpad held down as you enter striking range, to avoid getting socked... for the latter, turn a few frames early lest you end up punching thin air, while the enemy you'd planned on booting in the gut backstabs you. Certainly not the nightmare of Holy Diver, but you'll probably notice this stuff if you take on FC Hard, with its profoundly more vicious "attack on first frame all day every day" AI.

NES/FC Double Dragon III and the FC-only Downtown Special have exactly the same "sliding stop" glitch. Ironically enough given its (patently undeserved) rep for sloppy fighting mechanics, NES/FC DD1 doesn't. Obviously it has a whole helluva lot more bugs/glitches to make up for it, but I prefer those to control snags.

Regarding good Shatterbrain play, beyond the obvious benefit of keeping POW mode, learning to keep the Options healthy for on-cue super transformations is the other biggie. TBH, fighting bosses sans super mode would make for a more interesting (albeit slower) run, where they're concerned... but I prefer to think of SM as the exclamation point to a good stage performance. Also it's genuinely satisfying smashing/blasting them to scrap. The lion's share of the challenge and technique is in the platforming anyway, imo.

[Blinge]

hey, congrats mycophobia!! first time i ever noticed this text error, skipping around your play lol -

Spoiler

I didn't know Squire did localisations!

[Vanguard]

as far as top-down stuff i need to give a better look at goes, though, i am way more inclined to fire up the sfc kiki kaikai and give it more of a chance, first. my issue was sliiightly less the lack of fixed fire and slightly more the HP everything had. enemies in that game are outright obstinate about how long they can take to kill, especially if you're not powered up.

KK's a vastly easier sell than Granada imo, but rather like Kage (FC) it has a brutal example of Natsume's favoured powerdown-on-damage mechanic. The early going is hard, but it makes the eventual blowing stuff to pieces all the more satisfying. Suffice to say, most of the enemies you're seeing stick around won't be doing that forever!

and i still haven't even given my twinkle tale a good crack, despite liking my extremely brief demo play! been waiting for a good mega drive to kick in, for that one.

TT's probably the most accessible of these three. I love 'em all but it's got instantly-apparent focus (unlike Granada) and minimally punishes at novice level (unlike KK), while packing bigger guns than either and still providing a considerable challenge. Superb game. Any fan of Ikari/Senjou no Okami who's overlooking it for the cuter aesthetic is cheating themselves! (it's not all cute either - got a nice anime Tolkienesque style that works great with the MD's muted palette)

Regarding powerups in Kiki Kaikai, this stellar TAS has some interesting information on how damage works. It says that all of the player's shots deal the same amount of damage regardless of powerups, that enemies have three frames of mercy invincibility after taking damage, and landing multiple shots at once does not cause more damage.

I've done some testing of my own on this, using Sayo on hard against the first boss. With good execution and a cooperative RNG I was able to kill him in about 14 seconds with the standard shot, 14 seconds with the triple shot, and 12 seconds with the double fireball. I suspect that fireball's better time is because its splash damage is hitting the boss the instant his mercy invincibility ends. I tried Black Mantle and got about the same time with both the double fireball and the triple shot, but he moves around a lot, so I think the fireball's damage advantage is made up for by needing to stop and adjust my aim more often. Anyway, my conclusion from this is that better weapons help against bosses, but not by a whole lot.

Against regular enemies it's obviously a different story since you can hit several at once with upgraded weapons. If hard mode's tougher enemies are spoiling your fun, it might be worth playing on normal mode. The only difference that I am aware of between difficulties in the JP version is that regular enemies get different HP values. In the US version you also start with more or less lives and bombs depending on your difficulty setting. Boss HP is the same between difficulties. I think the higher pressure hard mode brings is worth dealing with the slower pacing, but it'd be nice if they had found something better than a straight HP upgrade, especially from the developer behind Dragon Fighter's superb hard mode.

If you think the boss fights are taking too long, I recommend saving up your bombs to speedkill them. The only significant difference between the two player characters is that Sayo/Pocky's bomb goes off in the four cardinal directions and Manuke/Rocky's bomb goes off in an expanding circle. Sayo's is good for long range sniping, Manuke's is good for clearing the screen of large numbers of normal enemies and for doing tons of damage in point blank range. Since boss speedkills are the best use of your bombs, Manuke is the more powerful character.


Twinkle Tale also raises enemy HP with the difficulty setting, and I think that one's best played on normal mode. You can make up for their higher hp by using the star spreadshot weapon and mashing fire, so the way I see it is you can play on normal mode and use autofire or you can play hard mode and button mash. There's also an s. hard option unlocked by beating the game which uses hard's hp values but also speeds up enemy bullets. Edit: Some of this information is incorrect. S. hard appears to be impossible to legitimately unlock and is identical to hard

[BIL]

Interesting! Sounds like the faster boss kills I perceived with max weapons were mostly down to them being much easier to connect with, particularly while moving about (plus the Fireball's splash effect you mention).

I remember Perikles mentioning TT's third difficulty tier, faster bullets does sound good! As far as parameter tweaks go I'll take those over HP buffs any day.

[Jonny2x4]

Speaking of that... for a more recent finding, NES/FC Double Dragon II's controls are sadly pretty glitchy as well, when put under close scrutiny. Buttons don't register during the "sliding stop" when you let off the dpad, and the punch/kick layout takes a split-second to catch up with a turning player. For the former, you need to keep the dpad held down as you enter striking range, to avoid getting socked... for the latter, turn a few frames early lest you end up punching thin air, while the enemy you'd planned on booting in the gut backstabs you. Certainly not the nightmare of Holy Diver, but you'll probably notice this stuff if you take on FC Hard, with its profoundly more vicious "attack on first frame all day every day" AI.

NES/FC Double Dragon III and the FC-only Downtown Special have exactly the same "sliding stop" glitch. Ironically enough given its (patently undeserved) rep for sloppy fighting mechanics, NES/FC DD1 doesn't. Obviously it has a whole helluva lot more bugs/glitches to make up for it, but I prefer those to control snags.

I've noticed a while ago that FCDD2 is the only game in the trilogy that doesn't allow to hold down B while pressing A (or vice-versa) for easy jumping. You have to press A and B simultaneously always if you want to jump. FCDD1 and FCDD3 both have this input shortcut, so it's weird that FCDD2 doesn't have it. I don't think the Downtown Nekketsu games had them either now that I think about them.

BTW, since we're talking Namco(t) stuff a few pages ago, I found these scans of a Monthly NG (Namco Community Magazine) issue featuring a preview of Rolling Thunder and 3D Thunder Ceptor II, along with the backstory and characters for Dragon Buster. Apparently Leila has an IQ of 300 and the designer of Rolling Thunder got married on autumn '86.
https://twitter.com/goegoezzz/status/947691934025256960

[BIL]

Always loved the official artwork for RT1's Albatross. Our man looks most unpleased and decidedly ready to bust a fuckin' cap. He has Simon Templar's fashion sense, but the expression of icily controlled murderous rage is most definitely not Sir Roger's.

[kitten]

very useful info, bil & vanguard! ty for the posts.

i'm very curious how frequently players (self included) subconsciously react to little programming peculiarities like those in metal storm and shatterhand without even consciously recognizing they're doing it to shake off little things like that. in platformers with variable jump heights, i'm always doing 'practice' hops during stretches dry of enemies - i wonder if this is partly learned behavior from things like this!