Prelude to the Apocalypse

[ED-057]

This is how one of the militia leaders at Charlottesville described the rally:

He criticized the Unite the Right rally, saying it represented the most extreme end of the political spectrum.


“These people did not come for free speech, they came to fight. We are not going to allow people to get violent. This was nothing more than an excuse to unite rightwing hate groups. They knew Black Lives Matter would come and antifa would come,” he said, referring to anti-racism activist groups.

So the allegation is that the purpose of the original rally was only to bust heads. And then BLM/antifa or whoever dutifully showed up to get their heads busted. Like sadists and masochists coming together. Both sides got what they wanted. Right?

They're all guilty of pointless attention whoring.

[BryanM]

Attention whoring is by definition never pointless. Because... it gets you attention.

Have we learned nothing from our president?

/patriotic salute
/eagle crying in front of flag

[Rob]

This is how one of the militia leaders at Charlottesville described the rally:

“These people did not come for free speech, they came to fight. We are not going to allow people to get violent. This was nothing more than an excuse to unite rightwing hate groups. They knew Black Lives Matter would come and antifa would come,” he said, referring to anti-racism activist groups.

"We are not going to allow people to get violent." Well, they failed miserably. He also can't speak for other people. Here is the protester side of the story.

And watch as these militia assholes stand around as this guy gets beaten by a group of cretins. Good media lies, though.

So the allegation is that the purpose of the original rally was only to bust heads.

Mike Enoch, Texas is ours. They were there for their little protest regarding the removal of the statue and for speeches like that one.

[Blinge]

"we're not immigrants, we conquered this country. "

Ahh I understand the moral argument now

[Elephants]

really puts things into perspective. thanks for bringing some clarity into this mess rob, your efforts are appreciated.

[EmperorIng]

If those boys had wanted to maintain their white ethnostate, their ancestors really shouldn't have conquered Mexico or bring over blacks, or in the case of Tommy Jefferson (and so many others), find black ass so irresistible. And finish the job with the Indians, to remove temptation. Sins of the father, I guess.

[Rob]

"we're not immigrants, we conquered this country. "

Ahh I understand the moral argument now

I knew it would be appreciated. Injuns BTFO.

[jepjepjep]

This is how one of the militia leaders at Charlottesville described the rally:

“These people did not come for free speech, they came to fight. We are not going to allow people to get violent. This was nothing more than an excuse to unite rightwing hate groups. They knew Black Lives Matter would come and antifa would come,” he said, referring to anti-racism activist groups.

"We are not going to allow people to get violent." Well, they failed miserably. He also can't speak for other people. Here is the protester side of the story.

And watch as these militia assholes stand around as this guy gets beaten by a group of cretins. Good media lies, though.

Come on man, be reasonable. In that video you linked of the guy getting attacked, at the 40 second mark you can see the militia guys separate the sides to prevent a full on melee. What do you expect them to do start shooting at the crowds? Keep in mind, these guys were volunteers. They talk about in the article how the official law enforcement didn't step up to help them keep order. And you're calling these guys assholes who stepped up to try to allow the racist scumbags to keep their rally going?

As for the protestor side of the story, I'm having a hard time garnering sympathy for his freedom of assembly rights being trampled on. If you're just a mere white nationalist and not a full blown Nazi, then don't go marching with flag-carrying Nazis with torches and chanting Nazi slogans. By the way, you're still a dickhead for being a white nationalist.

[Rob]

Come on man, be reasonable.

I do not think it is reasonable to use a third party who has tall tales to judge the intentions of others.

I've seen it from multiple angles. They're standing around until the guy has a gash across his skull. They couldn't possibly have missed that scene unfolding.

By the way, you're still a dickhead for being a white nationalist.

I have opinions about immigration, support lawful protests and will listen to any point of view - I suppose that makes me a white nationalist. As for the Nazi flag guy (how many were there?), others have pointed out that it is odd that the one guy who was used to show that it was a "Nazi rally" hasn't been identified/outed, wasn't around when others were being assaulted.

[jepjepjep]

I have opinions about immigration, support lawful protests and will listen to any point of view - I suppose that makes me a white nationalist.

No, it doesn't. Those three items you mentioned are positive attributes of a reasonable man. Only you can determine if you're a white nationalist. The best definition I found was from Merrium Webster dictionary:

Definition of white nationalist

: one of a group of militant whites who espouse white supremacy and advocate enforced racial segregation
https://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... ationalist

Do you have a different definition of white nationalist? Do you consider yourself one?

[Bananamatic]

And you're calling these guys assholes who stepped up to try to allow the racist scumbags to keep their rally going?

What would really happen if you just let them sieg heil uninterrupted for a few hours and then laugh at them the next day? It's not like it was a lynch mob

[Xyga]

And you're calling these guys assholes who stepped up to try to allow the racist scumbags to keep their rally going?

What would really happen if you just let them sieg heil uninterrupted for a few hours and then laugh at them the next day? It's not like it was a lynch mob

What about not tolerating nazis in a free democracy?
Their ideas insult so many people living or dead you have to be extremely far away from reality or barely have any human empathy to not see they being here blasting their horror slogans at the face of everyone as an unbearable provocation.
No fucking nazi has any right to invoke 'freedom'. Fuck them, blast them and all the bastards sympathetic to their ideas.

[Mischief Maker]

And you're calling these guys assholes who stepped up to try to allow the racist scumbags to keep their rally going?

What would really happen if you just let them sieg heil uninterrupted for a few hours and then laugh at them the next day? It's not like it was a lynch mob

I dunno, maybe Bannon would still be in the White House.

And the talking heads in the media would still be marveling over, "Trump keeps saying and doing things that would destroy a normal politician, but HE keeps getting away with it! I wonder why?"

In the court of law, silence equals assent.

[quash]

They shot a missile over Japan in 1998.

That they did. Now they have nuclear warheads and are closer to missiles being able to re-enter the atmosphere and hit targets with precision than they have ever been. Not to mention other capabilities that I'm not even sure I can talk about yet.

Let us not forget how we got in this mess to begin with.

Dunno, but I will naysay that china will throw away everything to support North Korea.

They won't have to. But even if they did, they would much rather sour ties with the US than border a US satellite state.

As much as ties between China and NK may be strained, it's not to the point where they're going to completely abandon them. Much of the current posturing against NK is for appearances, if you ask me.

By and large the confederacy was for slavery.

Because they hadn't industrialized on the scale the North had, but that was coming down the pipe by the time the war started.

The point I'm trying to get across is that both sides would be considered by today's standards to be incredibly racist, and that there is more to the story than good vs evil. In my view, it may have been the most easily avoidable war in American history (besides Iraq), and neither side really had much to gain from it.

And who gives a shit about descendants and family? I'm distantly related to Robert E Lee actually -- have a huge family scroll thing w/ a few Lee's on it. I'm certainly not retarded enough to side with any single state b/c it's my state.

Which goes to show how far values have shifted since then. I agree, screw fighting for your home state in 2017; I'm sure as shit not going to fight for California if they're dumb enough to vote Calexit through. If anything, I'd volunteer for the occupation force.

But that is just the thing: you are rearranging the context of their time to fit our own. Back then, it fucking mattered what state you lived in because families were closer (both geographically and otherwise), that was where the land your family owned was, etc. It was much harder to uproot and go elsewhere than it is today.

[Mischief Maker]

The point I'm trying to get across is that both sides would be considered by today's standards to be incredibly racist,

To which I say, "No shit, Sherlock!" You know what else people did back then? Ate popcorn while watching public executions. That the two sides shared values both primitive and distasteful to modern sensibilities doesn't mean they were equivalent.

Of course ending slavery wasn't the North's purpose in the war. Lincoln himself said it was about keeping the United states intact. That's still a far more noble purpose than keeping the forced labor camps running in the south.

If you like, I can start quoting from the declarations of secession and hear in the confederacy's own words that it was all about slavery.

In my view, it may have been the most easily avoidable war in American history (besides Iraq), and neither side really had much to gain from it.

Slavery was hardly on its last legs in 1860. That year, the South produced almost 75 percent of all U.S. exports. Slaves were worth more than all the manufacturing companies and railroads in the nation. No elite class in history has ever given up such an immense interest voluntarily. Moreover, Confederates eyed territorial expansion into Mexico and Cuba. Short of war, who would have stopped them — or forced them to abandon slavery?

Five myths about why the South seceded

Slavery was incredibly profitable for the human traffickers in the South. Not to mention an easy source of sexual release. And explain to me why an enslaved person can't be relocated by their captors from picking cotton in a field to tightening screws on an assembly line?

The south fought for money. Robert E. Lee shed the blood and orphaned the families of his fellow United States servicemen for his own personal profit. You should spit when you hear that traitor's name.

[BryanM]

I dunno, maybe Bannon would still be in the White House.

That guy was more isolated than Milton from Office Space.

He's been leaking and acting like he's the president for months now. With all the capitalists in admin looking to put a knife in the national socialist's neck.

Been circling the drain for a long time. Incredible he lasted as long as he did.

(It's incredible anyone lasts longer than a month in there. Shit's like THUNDERDOME.)

they are closer to missiles being able to re-enter the atmosphere and hit targets with precision than they have ever been.

While technically true this is also technically meaningless fear mongering. Like with the war with Iraq, these guys are nowhere close to an ICBM that can nuke Texas.

And like our good friend Bannon said, there is no military solution when they have millions of people in Seoul hostage with conventional weapons.

In theory diplomacy might improve things slightly, but they'd have to be freaking retarded to cut a deal after what we've done to Iraq, Libya, and Iran. Not that the deep state is interested in trying such a thing.

[Durandal]

And you're calling these guys assholes who stepped up to try to allow the racist scumbags to keep their rally going?

What would really happen if you just let them sieg heil uninterrupted for a few hours and then laugh at them the next day? It's not like it was a lynch mob

What about not tolerating nazis in a free democracy?
Their ideas insult so many people living or dead you have to be extremely far away from reality or barely have any human empathy to not see they being here blasting their horror slogans at the face of everyone as an unbearable provocation.
No fucking nazi has any right to invoke 'freedom'. Fuck them, blast them and all the bastards sympathetic to their ideas.

I'm not sure what the point is to dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed just to focus on subjugating one group of human garbage out of the many already being tolerated by the public, from copyright trolls to the bourgeoisie enabling American imperialism. Heck, these neo-nazis don't even commit that many actual crimes in the grand scale, the only reason they get so much attention is because of their cartoonish motivations and the media sensation they provide. Consider that their goals are woefully unrealistic and unachievable through either democratic or revolutionary means, as the majority of voters today will never possibly agree to straight-up unfettered natsoc ideals and the circumstances aren't right at all for any kind of revolution to happen. And they don't have the power to forcibly enact their ideals either. We're talking about a bunch of internet tough guys around 20 years old who got brainwashed on the internet. Most of them only wish they could handle themselves in a fight. Even the tough guy skinhead figurehead who appeared in the VICE documentary earlier on got reduced to a pile of blubber and tears after the world came crashing down around him with a frightening efficiency.

The only thing they're doing in their protests is yelling at clouds, as nothing they want to see changed will realistically happen in the foreseeable future. If they were to get violent en masse the police would crack them down HARD, but since they are largely unorganized most attacks are carried out by loners or not at all. The actual threat they pose is minimal, or at least would be if people didn't spend so much effort into stating the obvious by saying we should be disgusted by them through huge massive protests, when that effort could have also been spent on organizing people against actual evils which are not so obvious. The white supremacist movement does create a large amount of brainwashed subjects, though most hypnotism manuals I've read don't mention ostracization and humiliation as viable cures. The only kind of people who do the latter are those with no patience and willpower left and are probably creditfeeders as well.

What frightens me about this the most is the outright dehumanization involved which acts as fuel for these counter-protests. The formalization of the idea that 'anything goes' against people who disrespect everything you hold dear is bound to set a dangerous precedent for the future which can backfire in many ways like this where people justify their actions with the idea that the others are elves because they do the same anyways. Literally JRPG villain-tier.

Any society functions by drawing a line between what's acceptable or not, but enforcing those standards with an unwavering absolutism has a tendency for that same absolutism to be replicated in many other ugly ways.

The south fought for money. Robert E. Lee shed the blood and orphaned the families of his fellow United States servicemen for his own personal profit. You should spit when you hear that traitor's name.

I see the "profit" part, but I don't see the "personal profit" part.

[BulletMagnet]

If they were to get violent en masse the police would crack them down HARD

Part of the problem is that a significant portion of the population, with followable reason or not, doesn't believe that this would happen (even now, the police response to Charlottesville has been repeatedly raked over the coals), especially under a federal government like we have now, and thus conclude that they need to take matters into their own hands - naturally, the white supremacists who insist that the Jews secretly control everything espouse much the same reasoning to take up arms.

[Mischief Maker]

The south fought for money. Robert E. Lee shed the blood and orphaned the families of his fellow United States servicemen for his own personal profit. You should spit when you hear that traitor's name.

I see the "profit" part, but I don't see the "personal profit" part.

Lee was a slaveowner who personally profited from the systemic atrocity:

I remained with Gen. Lee about seventeen months, when my sister Mary, a cousin of ours, and I determined to run away, which we did in the year 1859; we had already reached Westminster, in Maryland, on our way to the North, when we were apprehended and thrown into prison, and Gen. Lee notified of our arrest; we remained in prison fifteen days, when we were sent back to Arlington; we were immediately taken before Gen. Lee, who demanded the reason why we ran away; we frankly told him that we considered ourselves free; he then told us he would teach us a lesson we never would forget; he then ordered us to the barn, where in his presence, we were tied firmly to posts by a Mr. Gwin, our overseer, who was ordered by Gen. Lee to strip us to the waist and give us fifty lashes each, excepting my sister, who received but twenty; we were accordingly stripped to the skin by the overseer, who, however, had sufficient humanity to decline whipping us; accordingly Dick Williams, a county constable was called in, who gave us the number ofl ashes ordered; Gen. Lee, in the meantime, stood by, and frequently enjoined Williams to "lay it on well," an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.

emphasis added

[Bananamatic]

Can america even have any kind of nationalism without the backlash considering their history?
Seems like the V4 (and eastern europe in general) gets a free pass there, is it because they were more on the receiving end rather than being the "oppressors"? There was a physical removal of leftists blocking a far right march in Poland and no one seemed to really care

Hell, we've discussed islam with our professors a few times here and everyone seemed to come to the conclusion that it's incompatible with our society - I imagine that this kind of thing in the USA would end up in the news with someone getting fired?

[Rob]

What about not tolerating nazis in a free democracy?

This isn't Europe. We do free speech here.

Their ideas insult so many people living or dead...

The current state of the West is the greatest insult to these men. 'This isn't the Britain we fought for,' say the 'unknown warriors' of WWII.

[Rob]

Hell, we've discussed islam with our professors a few times here and everyone seemed to come to the conclusion that it's incompatible with our society - I imagine that this kind of thing in the USA would end up in the news with someone getting fired?

You're a smart people. The rule in America is that we change the subject to White Christian crime whenever a Muslim does Muslim things.

[BryanM]

Yes yes. Old people voted for what the free market capitalist TV told them to and now are angry about the world they created.

News at eleven.

Most party regulars have gone from an initial feeling of guarded optimism that Trump would be able to stumble along while Mitch (McConnell) and (Paul) Ryan do the big lifting and pass our Republican agenda to a current feeling of deep frustration and despair

Honestly, what has changed? Internally there is no reason they can't get the billionaire tax cut or medicaid cut lickity split. Not if they want to do it.

How is Trump impeding the process at all? Making liberals care about politics again? Who cares if some hippy sees what they're doing and yells at them about it?

[Durandal]

The south fought for money. Robert E. Lee shed the blood and orphaned the families of his fellow United States servicemen for his own personal profit. You should spit when you hear that traitor's name.

I see the "profit" part, but I don't see the "personal profit" part.

Lee was a slaveowner who personally profited from the systemic atrocity:

That seems more like a part of his "painful discipline" than a desire for dosh.
I don't think the reason was simply greed for the South to maintain the slave business, as slavery was their main financial pillar they couldn't just readily give up and risk their economy falling into shambles as it did after the war ended.

[BryanM]

as slavery was their main financial pillar they couldn't just readily give up and risk their economy falling into shambles as it did after the war ended.

wat

When was the $0 non-voluntary minimum wage good or useful for anyone besides the wealthy capitalists.

[Blinge]

others have pointed out that it is odd that the one guy who was used to show that it was a "Nazi rally" hasn't been identified/outed, wasn't around when others were being assaulted.

Lol alright.

Spoiler

The current state of the West is the greatest insult to these men.'This isn't the Britain we fought for,' say the 'unknown warriors' of WWII.

'Ang abaat m8. No need to speak for England you cheeky bellend. Especially not when you're posting myopic low-brow wank from the Daily Heil; a publication that exists only to tease gutter-tier nationalism out from the plebs. Man this article is all over the place; it even starts down the road of New Labours' rightwards shift being a disappointment but quickly cuts off to be safe ;]
Should just rename it to "miserable old people dislike modernity + regurgitate 30 years of centre-right propaganda"
Doesn't have the same ring to it tho

[BulletMagnet]

The rule in America is that we change the subject to White Christian crime whenever a Muslim does Muslim things.

I don't think that's quite the same thing as asking "would it be fair to condemn all white Christians for a similar act in the way we're often tempted to condemn all Muslims for one"; obviously some folks, yourself seemingly included, believe that Muslims are so irreparably different from us that we need to apply a completely different set of rules to them than we do to ourselves, and we hashed that one out for some time earlier in the thread, but once you're unwilling to even make the comparison because it's too "politically correct" (or "anti-white") you're in an even dodgier intellectual and ethical space.

[BryanM]

Such comparisons are a waste of time. We have vastly more murders by white people by virtue of there being a ton of them more of them here. We don't bother to take note of such things unless they're particularly egregious like Columbine or that church that got shot up.

Yet whenever a Muslim takes a dump wrong anywhere on the planet, Europe, Zimbabwe, Pluto, we have to hear about it. These people have never met or will meet a Muslim in their entire lives, but, they still spend a lot of time and thought thinking about them for some mysterious reason.

As our good friend Bannon said, all of this shit is a distraction away from the ground we can win on. A man murdered a woman and crippled over a dozen people with his car, and as a result the right has white people worked up because the kids of today want to take away their ancestor's war trophies. Statues are more important than lives, now.

Perhaps it's natural for them to feel excluded when it seems like other groups are gaining ground (they're not, but the media could fool you into thinking they are) while they lose ground like everyone else has been. But by god do they love their empty symbols.

A man will give away his entire Social Security benefit, if he can get a flag with some blue stripes on it.

[quash]

Five myths about why the South seceded

Look, I'll buy my shoes, videogames and coffee from Jeff Bezos, but I'm not about to get my history from him. I'd sooner cite Wikipedia as a source.

Slavery was incredibly profitable for the human traffickers in the South.

Funny how as soon as the Union as well as local Southern merchant ships blockaded the exporting of cotton from the South, they had nothing to show for all the slave labor they had. You'd think with all those slaves that shat money, they'd have been just fine.

And explain to me why an enslaved person can't be relocated by their captors from picking cotton in a field to tightening screws on an assembly line?

Because the North didn't want them and the South didn't start building most of its factories until after the war started.

The south fought for money.

Yes, but they also fought for autonomy. I don't doubt they intended to keep slavery for some time, but that would have changed the moment the North started cucking them on cotton exports (people seem to forget that they had cotton fields as well) and they would have had to industrialize to compete (textile mills of the time were estimated to be 3-5 times more productive than slave labor at a lower cost).

[quash]

While technically true this is also technically meaningless fear mongering. Like with the war with Iraq, these guys are nowhere close to an ICBM that can nuke Texas.

They're closer than you probably think, but the issue here isn't striking the US, it's striking multiple neighboring countries at once.

And like our good friend Bannon said, there is no military solution when they have millions of people in Seoul hostage with conventional weapons.

Unless they shoot first. Which, given the current climate, is unlikely.

People do seem to easily fall for North Korea's propaganda, though. If you think NK is a madhouse led by a maniacal dictator, congratulations, you've just given them the cover they need to keep their gulags open right under our noses.

In theory diplomacy might improve things slightly, but they'd have to be freaking retarded to cut a deal after what we've done to Iraq, Libya, and Iran. Not that the deep state is interested in trying such a thing.

Funny how the deep state went from being some fringe Alex Jones bullshit to something that everyone openly and readily acknowledges the existence of. Really, truly, makes you think.