Sarpig pride worldwide. Sars are better than Jars!

[Necronopticous]

Tactics Ogre Reborn is sooooooo good.

Listen to this man.

Turn off the VA, though.

[Steven]

Almost done replaying Valkyria Chronicles 4; only 2 battles left and then replaying the final battle on hard to get the true ending.

I disliked this game somewhat when I played it on Switch at launch, but I have changed my mind somewhat. The gameplay is certainly better than I remember it being, and better than its predecessors; all of the DLC is now free on PC (take that, stupid underpowered wimpy consoles! Wait, fuck, Denuvo NoOoooOOooooooo0000ooooOOO~), no ridiculously tiny and empty PSP maps, less class imbalance (but it still exists), APC and leader units to move less mobile units around easily, no super broken Alicia (unless you use the DLC, but you won't need to since the game is still stupidly easy), no need to ever use those shitty AT units ever since you now have AT mortars, and generally fewer battles where you rush to the flag in a single turn and call it good.

Ridiculous bosses are still a problem, though. Fortunately I somehow remember all of my anti-boss cheese strategies from 5 years ago even though I haven't played it since then... or maybe it's actually unfortunate because I had to resort to such things in the first place. Must be mentally scarred enough to never forget, I suppose. Story is still as boring as ever, and for some reason they removed the Japanese OP from the PC version, which is weird, but I guess it doesn't break anything. I guess it was there before or something, but it uses the English title and logo even in Japanese, so I'm guessing they just kind of glued the Japanese text onto the PC version as an afterthought, as the PC version originally didn't have Japanese text at all from what I understand.

On that subject, the quality of the English translations of this series has been very questionable right from the first game, which is FUCKING REGION LOCKED AND CAN'T BE BOUGHT ON PC IN JAPAN EVEN THOUGH IT WAS PUBLISHED ON PC BY SEGA and doesn't have Japanese text anyway, unfortunately leaving the Japanese PS4 version as the best version of the game. Anyway, yeah, the translations in this series have generally been pretty okay, except for when they are blatantly wrong. They are good more often than not, but when they are wrong they are SUPER wrong, but apparently nobody cares aside from me. Oh well. No, I am not going to post examples because I am way too lazy to do that, but it is still disappointing.

Uh... yeah, game's okay or whatever. While this is not an S-tier SRPG series due to severe imbalance and generally terrible/annoying boss fights, it has the potential to get there with some improvements, but that probably doesn't really matter since the series is likely dead or on hiatus again at this point, just like its predecessor, Sakura Taisen (partially shared dev teams, BTW).

Actually, now that I've invoked the legendary Sakura Taisen, I must say that, as strategy games, both Sakura Taisen and Valkyria Chronicles have a great strength that is completely absent in every Fire Emblem game that I have played: creative and varied missions that are not simply "kill everything and don't die" or "kill the boss and don't die". Sakura Taisen's focus is on the story, not the fighting, but the variety of objectives in Sakura Taisen 2 and beyond is far better than what I have seen in every Fire Emblem I have ever played, which says a lot (or very little, depending on your perspective) about Fire Emblem given that the strategy aspect of Sakura Taisen is both ridiculously easy and generally regarded as an afterthought by fans.

[Sima Tuna]

Yeah, my biggest problem with Valkyria Chronicles as a series is the ridiculous boss design. Strategic rpgs are supposed to have, y'know, strategy to them. But boss battles in VC have none. You just learn what the game wants you to do and you follow your script like a good little cuck. If you perform your part well, all the stupid cutscenes will play out as they're supposed to and you'll win the mission.

When will strategy games learn that invincible enemies/boss are a bad idea? The best tactics game bosses are normal units. Of course, some may complain that "those are too easy." I've heard that complaint about FFT bosses. "You can kill them in one round if you've been grinding." Well, no shit. You can kill anything in any RPG if you just grind enough, assuming some kind of linear leveling structure in a game without level scaling. But isn't it still more fun if the challenge of a boss fight comes from using the tools you've been given to defeat an opponent with similar tools? Just that concept alone is enough to sustain plenty of strategy games. FFT has a lot of memorable boss fights. Not because they're necessarily hard, but because the fights position you in interesting ways or make you fight class combinations you may not understand fully yet. It's all fully cheesable with high enough damage output, but that's not the point.

Anyway, classes are unbalanced in VC4 and have been unbalanced in every VC game. The melee class was broken in VC2, along with Shocktroopers. Mortars and Shocks are broken in VC4 imo. Lancers have always been trash, unless I'm forgetting about some use for them in VC2.

Valkyria Chronicles as a series is a 10/10 concept and art direction, wrapped in 6/10 gameplay and level design. I'd love to see a developer with deep understanding of strategic RPG gameplay take their own shot at the idea. The maps, objectives and bosses in particular need dramatic reworks. I know it's not a japanese strategy RPG, but the gameplay of Battle Brothers is far, far beyond Valkyria Chronicles. Screenshots of Battle Brothers don't look like much, but it's got what counts under the hood. An indie developer could absolutely take a whack at Valkyria Chronicles and do a better job.

[Steven]

There was a Fire Emblem where every boss was just a regular unit with a ton of HP sitting on a throne so you only have like 30% accuracy or something like that and the bosses kill any unit you have in 2 hits, so you can only really damage the bosses on enemy phase without the risk of losing units, and of course thrones heal the boss and increase their DEF or whatever. Pretty sure that was Shadow Dragon on DS. I also do have Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Ken on FC but I haven't played it in a long time, so I don't remember if it was always like that or not. I don't know if I actually like this more than Valkyria Chronicles bosses or not, but it's... a way of having bosses, I guess.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Definitely a misstep of Shadow Dragon's. It doesn't diminish how excellent the game is otherwise, but those first few bosses are dogshit on harder settings and feel designed around savescumming with the in-map limited save points. Once you get past the initial stages, you have options capable of dealing with bosses (who aren't as far above your army as the first couple are) but those early bosses are offputting. Incidentally, the NES version is far easier, and most Fire Emblem games have fairly indistinct bosses (slightly-buffed up units on advantageous terrain) anyway.

[Steven]

Done with Valkyria Chronicles 4. I did a few of the skirmishes, but after a few I realized that I don't really care and uninstalled it and a few other things to make room for Death Stranding Director's Cut and Relayer Advanced.

I have been thinking about giving Relayer Advanced another playthrough to see if it's any better on very hard mode without using New Game +, which is currently broken and causes some nasty glitches. Maybe it's not broken on consoles, but it's definitely broken on PC for sure and the devs seem to have stopped caring. SteamDB says the game never had more than 46 players simultaneously, so I'm pretty sure the PC version failed miserably, just like the console versions, so it's not really surprising that the devs haven't fixed any of the problems the game has.

It's really too bad, as the game had 2 planned sequels and a lot of potential. Decent SRPG, I guess, but not putting out a fifth-assed PC port and also not relegating very hard to being unlocked only upon finishing the game would have been nice, as the game honestly needs a massive difficulty increase. The bosses in this are kind of even worse than Valkyria Chronicles bosses since they will insta-kill pretty much any of your units that dare to get close, but they aren't too bad once you know how to not get facerolled.

[Licorice]

For what it's worth, I thought the bosses in Front Mission 5 were decent enough. I might do a dedicated write up on them when I replay.

[Steven]

I've still never played Front Mission. I really should try it eventually...

I picked up Senjyou no Valkyria 2 at Book Off yesterday for 270 yen, so now I finally have every game in the series aside from that one weird spinoff on PS4 that everyone said is super terrible. I did not previously illegally download 2 and play it for a bit on my totally not-hacked PSP go because that would be illegal, but yeah. Edy's sister is here, and that's good... right?

[Sima Tuna]

Valkyria Chronicles 2 is a game limited by its hardware. Generally speaking, the game is piss-easy and balance is borked because of the map constraints on a handheld. Snipers are worthless in 2 due to the tiny map size. Shocktroopers and Armor Techs are overpowered for the same reason. VC2 also has a grindy mission structure and upgrading system which artificially inflate the amount of time you have to spend replaying its bite-sized levels. The class upgrading may be some of the worst I have ever seen in a video game. The requirements become obnoxious before long. The upgrades themselves are interesting but the items you have to collect to upgrade a single character require an insane amount of grinding.

[Steven]

It did not leave a great impression at all when I tried it a few years ago, and I dropped it only a few missions in. The tiny, empty, and segmented maps just don't work well and that alone is enough to hurt the game quite badly given how the series works. The Vita could have done a nice job with this game, but the Vita was a few years away at that point.

[BryanM]

Geez, why does Langrisser 3DS have such heckin' awful reviews? Is this a case of it not being for anyone (grognards hating it for not having the series's art style, normies hating it for not being up to the quality of Fire Emblem) or is it really really bad?


The release gap on the series' timeline on its wiki page is also something to see. Wow, 16 years..

It's interesting to hear about how members of the teams of the original games moved on to Growlanser, and later, Devil Survivor.

[Steven]

I've heard it's actually a bad game compared to the earlier ones. That new remake thing of the first two games with the generic low-budget bootleg mobile phone game graphics is definitely worse than the original versions, too. Like the way your HP and stuff works is just... not right in the remakes, and they are way too easy. The Saturn collection is probably still the best versions of both of those, but I haven't played Der Langrisser, so who knows. I can see someone preferring the YM2612 music instead of the Saturn music, too. Not sure if that's running on the Saturn's YMF292-F or if it's CDDA, and it's not bad, but I can see a case for someone tossing the Saturn versions out in favour of the MD versions specifically because of the music.

[Steven]

Time for Relayer Advanced very hard difficulty. Hard was way too easy, so I am hoping that very hard is a better experience. It seems about the same so far, but I have only done the first few battles. I got a game over from a critical hit on the tutorial battle, but nothing else noteworthy has happened so far.

It's really too bad that you have to finish the game once to unlock very hard, as the low difficulty is probably the game's biggest flaw aside from the hilariously ridiculous nature of the no-effort PC port.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Progressing through Fire Emblem Engage, can't be far from the endgame really because I've done zero grinding and have needed to second seal a few units.

It's a real mixed bag, because from a gameplay perspective it's really nice. Quite a few maps have made me think how I approach it and led to some squeaky bum time moments to win it. AI is a bit better - though it's still easy to bait out with a single character who they'll barely damage, and if you leave someone vulnerable they throw soldiers into improbably silly positions just to kill off your guy. On the whole though, nice. The new engage mechanic is balanced nicely between being powerful but having limited numbers of uses.

But the story. Fucking hell. You're a dragon, he's a dragon etc. etc.. It's stuffed with references to old Fire Emblem games... most of which didn't get translated so that element of fan service falls flat. No-one gets any character development and 90% of the cast are only seen in their support cutscenes after their initial introduction. You basically wander around picking up allies - anyone interesting is immediately sidelined while your main guy rabbit in the headlights asks inane questions to a core bunch of wet blankets you'll mostly not use in combat because better units exist. Fates was bollocks and yet it's much better than this.

The inventory is a mess - you can't sell food items, you can't combine items (Mend with a couple of uses left is useless) and you can only buy/sell one at a time. There's also loads of things that are totally superfluous - there are plenty of items to pick up, most of which are pointless fruit and the minigames offer pitiful benefits. There's a Panzer Dragoon-y one but no way to invert the Y axis for it, so that's instantly annoying. The one thing they got right in terms of useless nonsense is you can fill a garden with cats, so if it all gets too much you can just have a pretend staring contest with one.

I'd say just cut the crap. Battle after battle with menus in between for shops to buy shit. No wandering around giving pebbles to people, going swimming or eating whatever some random.character thinks they can cook. It's a waste of time. Let me go out and fight evil dudes! And come up with a better story than "bad guys want to end the world and only amnesiac protag can stop them because reasons".

[Sima Tuna]

I'd say just cut the crap. Battle after battle with menus in between for shops to buy shit. No wandering around giving pebbles to people, going swimming or eating whatever some random.character thinks they can cook. It's a waste of time. Let me go out and fight evil dudes! And come up with a better story than "bad guys want to end the world and only amnesiac protag can stop them because reasons".

Almost like they perfected the formula with Shadow Dragon and every game after has been a massive downgrade in terms of strategic gameplay.

Shadows of Valentia wasn't bad though. I guess it's not a surprise I like the other remake of an old FE game. Units feel fairly squishy (a good thing imo) and the map design is very solid for the most part. The roaming sections kinda suck in Valentia too... When will strategy games learn that nobody cares about extra digressions from core gameplay? Give me good core gameplay and a lot of it! That's what I crave from this genre!

See also: reasons Battle Brothers is a 10/10 game.

[Steven]

R-Type Tactics remakes got delayed until an unspecified time next year. Sadness.

[Lander]

Say, did anyone play Knights in the Nightmare on DS / PSP? Arcade-RPG Cadash coming up over in R2RKMF reminded me of its nuclear fusion of semi-realtime SRPG combat and bullet-dodger menuing.

I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been mentioned already, given how on-brand orchestrate a tactical engagement while dodging this pattern is for the official Shmupsfarm SRPG thread



Super cool game, if utterly impenetrable until you chomp through the massive ingame manual - it's got that old-school DNA of burying you under a mountain of systems and leaving you to either figure it out or not.

Technically my foot-in-the-door to traditional SRPGs (or SRPG-adjacents, at any rate) ahead of TO: Reborn too, which is a strange and non-transferable deep-end to pick in retrospect

And apparently it got a JP-only remaster for Switch and mobile last year? Looks like the PSP version with an HD interface, but it's a shame it didn't come west. We need more smashings-together of disparate genres.

[cfx]

Unicorn Overlord announced by Vanillaware: https://unicorn-overlord.com/

English language trailer via Nintendo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9MRbg7MqCw

[Sima Tuna]

I love STING, so I did try Knights in the Knightmare. I ended up noping out because it was too inscrutable even by STING standards.

Yggdra Union, Riviera and Gungir (especially Gungnir) were more my jam. What I like about STING games is how they take a simple genre or gameplay setup and then layer complexity on top. KitK just felt way too difficult to grasp. With a game like Riviera, it's pretty simple: you're doing text adventure stuff + some linear battles. The extra layers come from the way items interact, choices have consequences and routing with your party members. With Gungnir, it's a typical FFT-like strategy rpg. But they layer on the turn order shenanigans and allow you to cheat wins at a consequence (much like Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume, which also allows the player to become overpowered in exchange for a price.)

Knights in the Knightmare... I didn't know what the fuck I was even supposed to do. Like, where to start. I should mention that I hate Phantom Brave's summoning system and this one felt not dissimilar.

Incidentally, Covenant of the Plume is a great game and much misaligned. People say the difficulty is extreme, but it really is not. You just have to decide what that clear is worth to you. Don't be a perfectionist. This story isn't supposed to have a happy ending. In my opinion, the most fulfilling ending is the bad one. If you go for the bad end (not game over, but actual ending,) then the game is relatively easy. It's only when you're trying to be a perfectionist that you'll need your A-game.

[cfx]

I can definitely recommend another game to avoid, though: Fairy Fencer F Refrain Chord.

List of things that are good about Fairy Fencer F Refrain Chord: the music (I'd actually consider buying the OST if they ever release it, but only if it has the vocal tracks)

List of things that are bad about Fairy Fencer F Refrain Chord: literally everything that isn't the music is completely terrible

The limited edition version of the game came with a 2-disc soundtrack which states it contains 12 vocal songs: https://www.compileheart.com/fairyfence ... fo/?page=2

I think that's all of the individual songs, except I guess does not have any of the combined versions.

The US LE also has a 2-disc soundtrack but I'm not sure if it's the same: https://ifi.store/collections/ps4-limit ... ed-edition

The US soundtrack's description suggests a disc devoted to each of the two divas and 32 + 23 = 55 total tracks, while the description of the Japanese soundtrack appears to be the 12 vocal songs on one CD and 40 other tracks on the second, for a total of 52.

[Steven]

I can definitely recommend another game to avoid, though: Fairy Fencer F Refrain Chord.

List of things that are good about Fairy Fencer F Refrain Chord: the music (I'd actually consider buying the OST if they ever release it, but only if it has the vocal tracks)

List of things that are bad about Fairy Fencer F Refrain Chord: literally everything that isn't the music is completely terrible

The limited edition version of the game came with a 2-disc soundtrack which states it contains 12 vocal songs: https://www.compileheart.com/fairyfence ... fo/?page=2

I think that's all of the individual songs, except I guess does not have any of the combined versions.

The US LE also has a 2-disc soundtrack but I'm not sure if it's the same: https://ifi.store/collections/ps4-limit ... ed-edition

The US soundtrack's description suggests a disc devoted to each of the two divas and 32 + 23 = 55 total tracks, while the description of the Japanese soundtrack appears to be the 12 vocal songs on one CD and 40 other tracks on the second, for a total of 52.

Yeah, I have the Japanese LE. The soundtrack is incomplete. Still way better than this awful game, though.

Seriously, it is the single worst SRPG I have ever played and an insult to SRPGs in general. Never spend money on it.

[cfx]

Yeah, I have the Japanese LE. The soundtrack is incomplete. Still way better than this awful game, though.

Seriously, it is the single worst SRPG I have ever played and an insult to SRPGs in general. Never spend money on it.

No worries; I won't. I considered it before it came out but came to the conclusion I wouldn't like it. It is odd that it's that bad since it was made by Sting, who maybe aren't masters at the genre but have made some that I thought were supposed to be pretty good.

I ended up buying most of the PS3 and PS4 Neptunia games, and I think that will be the extent of my Idea Factory/Compile Heart purchases.

[Steven]

Yeah, I have the Japanese LE. The soundtrack is incomplete. Still way better than this awful game, though.

Seriously, it is the single worst SRPG I have ever played and an insult to SRPGs in general. Never spend money on it.

No worries; I won't. I considered it before it came out but came to the conclusion I wouldn't like it. It is odd that it's that bad since it was made by Sting, who maybe aren't masters at the genre but have made some that I thought were supposed to be pretty good.

I ended up buying most of the PS3 and PS4 Neptunia games, and I think that will be the extent of my Idea Factory/Compile Heart purchases.

I was hoping that Sting's involvement would make the game be at least okay, if not better than it would be if Compile Heart handled it alone. Unfortunately, I was wrong. I doubt Compile Heart could have done it better alone, but it's still disappointing. As a SRPG, its game design completely fails at mostly everything.

[Steven]

Unicorn Overlord demo is out, but only on Switch for now and I haven't played it yet. I'm going to get the game on PS5, though I may get it for Switch if I decide that I really want handheld mode.

[Sima Tuna]

As I always do, I'm going to hold off and wait for a sale. I still haven't picked up Tactics Ogre Reborn yet, so I've plenty of sarpigging to do when my jarpigging craze (playing FF7 for the first time, replaying FF8, FF9 and eventually the pixel remasters) comes to its end.

[dummy]

Question from a SRPG noob: What are generally the best SRPG games purely in terms of gameplay and gameplay alone?

On a related note, which games are the most strategic/tactical, disregarding the quality of the overall gameplay?

And does the 4th gen/snes era have any worthwhile and recommendable SRPGs besides Tactics Ogre, Fire Emblem 5 and maybe (?) Bahamut Lagoon? It seems to me that the most popular games of the genre are from the 5th gen and onward....

[Sima Tuna]

Question from a SRPG noob: What are generally the best SRPG games purely in terms of gameplay and gameplay alone?

On a related note, which games are the most strategic/tactical, disregarding the quality of the overall gameplay?

And does the 4th gen/snes era have any worthwhile and recommendable SRPGs besides Tactics Ogre, Fire Emblem 5 and maybe (?) Bahamut Lagoon? It seems to me that the most popular games of the genre are from the 5th gen and onward....

The big names are Fire Emblem, Front Mission, Tactics Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics, at least for j-sarpigs. X-Com, Xenonauts and Battle Brothers would be my picks for W-sarpigs. I would only consider a game a sarpig if you can level up your individual units and customize them. Advance Wars is NOT a sarpig (it's a panzer general-lite) because the units are all generics you can't do much with.

A lot of the best sarpigs came out in the ps1-ps2 era, and there were quite a few on GBA or DS as well.

If we were to measure ALL sarpigs and rank them purely on their gameplay quality alone, and award a single winner, then my vote would go for Battle Brothers. The visuals look awful when you first start playing, but there just isn't anything to compare with the depth of gameplay. It's not a perfect game, but it avoids many of the pitfalls of sarpigs. FFT is a beautiful game, but I can snap that title over my knee in about 20 minutes. Balancing just isn't there. It's way too easy to become overpowered and stay overpowered the entire game, to the point that nothing can stop you except save-or-die spells. (Same problem baldur's gate 2 has.)

Darkest Dungeon is probably a sarpig, since you can level up your dudes and deploy them tactically. It's not grid-based (rather, row-based) but functions very similarly to a sarpig in other ways. DD2 I would not consider a sarpig because of the roguelike element.

My favorite individual sarpigs are these:

Battle Brothers
Final Fantasy Tactics
Tactics Ogre
Front Mission 1 (snes or ds version)
Fire Emblem 7
Front Mission 3
Arc the Lad 2 (really straddles the line between sarpig and jrpg)
Saiyuki: Journey West, although it's kinda simple
MAYBE Growlanser: Wayfarer of time, if you consider it a sarpig

On the GBA/DS, you also have FFTA, FFTA2 and Knight of Lodis. I didn't include them in my favorites because I like their progenitors more. But they are fun.

Probably the sarpig with the greatest potential for amazing gameplay, IF the level design and balancing issues were actually fucking fixed, is Valkyria Chronicles. Imagine a Valkyria Chronicles game with the razor-fine balance of Battle Brothers or the push-and-pull of X-Com The Long War. The systems of VC have potential, they're just under-utilized in the extreme. Presentation over substance.

[Voliko]

Yeah, I have the Japanese LE. The soundtrack is incomplete. Still way better than this awful game, though.

Seriously, it is the single worst SRPG I have ever played and an insult to SRPGs in general. Never spend money on it.

No worries; I won't. I considered it before it came out but came to the conclusion I wouldn't like it. It is odd that it's that bad since it was made by Sting, who maybe aren't masters at the genre but have made some that I thought were supposed to be pretty good.

I ended up buying most of the PS3 and PS4 Neptunia games, and I think that will be the extent of my Idea Factory/Compile Heart purchases.

I was hoping that Sting's involvement would make the game be at least okay, if not better than it would be if Compile Heart handled it alone. Unfortunately, I was wrong. I doubt Compile Heart could have done it better alone, but it's still disappointing. As a SRPG, its game design completely fails at mostly everything.

I know this post is months old, but is it really that bad? I’ve not seen much real discussion of the game online. I picked it up on sale last year but never got around to it.

I thought Sting’s work on the Utawarerumono games was decent, even approached excellent in the Mask of Truth postgame. I consider Gungnir the pinnacle of SRPGs, and I still keep tabs on Sting’s releases, but their era of pushing game design forward and defying genre conventions is long over.

[dummy]

Question from a SRPG noob: What are generally the best SRPG games purely in terms of gameplay and gameplay alone?

On a related note, which games are the most strategic/tactical, disregarding the quality of the overall gameplay?

And does the 4th gen/snes era have any worthwhile and recommendable SRPGs besides Tactics Ogre, Fire Emblem 5 and maybe (?) Bahamut Lagoon? It seems to me that the most popular games of the genre are from the 5th gen and onward....

The big names are Fire Emblem, Front Mission, Tactics Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics, at least for j-sarpigs. X-Com, Xenonauts and Battle Brothers would be my picks for W-sarpigs. I would only consider a game a sarpig if you can level up your individual units and customize them. Advance Wars is NOT a sarpig (it's a panzer general-lite) because the units are all generics you can't do much with.

A lot of the best sarpigs came out in the ps1-ps2 era, and there were quite a few on GBA or DS as well.

If we were to measure ALL sarpigs and rank them purely on their gameplay quality alone, and award a single winner, then my vote would go for Battle Brothers. The visuals look awful when you first start playing, but there just isn't anything to compare with the depth of gameplay. It's not a perfect game, but it avoids many of the pitfalls of sarpigs. FFT is a beautiful game, but I can snap that title over my knee in about 20 minutes. Balancing just isn't there. It's way too easy to become overpowered and stay overpowered the entire game, to the point that nothing can stop you except save-or-die spells. (Same problem baldur's gate 2 has.)

Darkest Dungeon is probably a sarpig, since you can level up your dudes and deploy them tactically. It's not grid-based (rather, row-based) but functions very similarly to a sarpig in other ways. DD2 I would not consider a sarpig because of the roguelike element.

My favorite individual sarpigs are these:

Battle Brothers
Final Fantasy Tactics
Tactics Ogre
Front Mission 1 (snes or ds version)
Fire Emblem 7
Front Mission 3
Arc the Lad 2 (really straddles the line between sarpig and jrpg)
Saiyuki: Journey West, although it's kinda simple
MAYBE Growlanser: Wayfarer of time, if you consider it a sarpig

On the GBA/DS, you also have FFTA, FFTA2 and Knight of Lodis. I didn't include them in my favorites because I like their progenitors more. But they are fun.

Probably the sarpig with the greatest potential for amazing gameplay, IF the level design and balancing issues were actually fucking fixed, is Valkyria Chronicles. Imagine a Valkyria Chronicles game with the razor-fine balance of Battle Brothers or the push-and-pull of X-Com The Long War. The systems of VC have potential, they're just under-utilized in the extreme. Presentation over substance.

I see. I really like mechs, and I like the character designs of FM 2 and 3 a lot, so I'll give the FM series a try.

Speaking of mecha, how do the Super Robot Wars games fare against those games you mentioned?

Oh, and what would you say is the oldest SRPG that is still very good and worthwhile?

[Steven]

No worries; I won't. I considered it before it came out but came to the conclusion I wouldn't like it. It is odd that it's that bad since it was made by Sting, who maybe aren't masters at the genre but have made some that I thought were supposed to be pretty good.

I ended up buying most of the PS3 and PS4 Neptunia games, and I think that will be the extent of my Idea Factory/Compile Heart purchases.

I was hoping that Sting's involvement would make the game be at least okay, if not better than it would be if Compile Heart handled it alone. Unfortunately, I was wrong. I doubt Compile Heart could have done it better alone, but it's still disappointing. As a SRPG, its game design completely fails at mostly everything.

I know this post is months old, but is it really that bad? I’ve not seen much real discussion of the game online. I picked it up on sale last year but never got around to it.

I thought Sting’s work on the Utawarerumono games was decent, even approached excellent in the Mask of Truth postgame. I consider Gungnir the pinnacle of SRPGs, and I still keep tabs on Sting’s releases, but their era of pushing game design forward and defying genre conventions is long over.

Yes, it's really that bad. Aside from the music it is an irredeemable piece of trash. Play Action 52 or Desert Bus or CrazyBus instead.