Sin and punishment star successor

[Super Joe]

Revisited this incredible Treasure title. Dare I say, Treasure at its pinnacle?

[xxx1993]

It’s a masterpiece indeed. But my only complaint is that it’s way too long for a game. It literally lasts two hours and forty minutes.

[kid aphex]

No, you’re right: it’s Treasure’s best.
Absolutely masterpiece.

Also, it’s worth reading this
https://iwataasks.nintendo.com/intervie ... hment/0/0/

[Air Master Burst]

It's pretty good but Gunstar Heroes and Bangai-O are better.

Alien Soldier is probably better too, I just haven't learned how to play it yet.

[Immryr]

it's really good. the first game is better though imo.

[kid aphex]

It's pretty good but Gunstar Heroes and Bangai-O are better.

Alien Soldier is probably better too, I just haven't learned how to play it yet.

Star Successor is basically Treasure’s design, aesthetic and gameplay principles with a Nintendo budget and polish.
A very rare alignment of effort resulting in something extraordinary, even when compared to the impressive nature of Treasure’s prior output.
Nothing really compares.

[guigui]

Had a very great time with this game, and lot of nice, scoring and tech talks here with awesome players :
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22527&hilit=+Sin+%26+Punishment

This last post by Warpzone sums up the situation pretty well :
* S&P2 is the best
* Stage 6 fist fight is awful
* Play Stage Select and improve your score stage by stage
* If you're confident and crazy enough, go for the full run.

[Air Master Burst]

Star Successor is basically Treasure’s design, aesthetic and gameplay principles with a Nintendo budget and polish.
A very rare alignment of effort resulting in something extraordinary, even when compared to the impressive nature of Treasure’s prior output.
Nothing really compares.

Replace "Nintendo" with "Konami" and you get Gradius V.

Doesn't change the fact that Gunstar Heroes and Bangai-O are better games than either of them.

[kid aphex]

Star Successor is basically Treasure’s design, aesthetic and gameplay principles with a Nintendo budget and polish.
A very rare alignment of effort resulting in something extraordinary, even when compared to the impressive nature of Treasure’s prior output.
Nothing really compares.

Replace "Nintendo" with "Konami" and you get Gradius V.

Doesn't change the fact that Gunstar Heroes and Bangai-O are better games than either of them.

Thank you for clarifying your insanity.

[Air Master Burst]

That's not even the hottest take I've had here this week.

Thinking on it, I'd probably put Ikaruga and maybe Astro Boy above it too, but that's about it. Granted, I haven't played their Bleach games or that Dragon Drive thing, but somehow I doubt any of them are nearly as rad as S&P 2.

[Super Joe]

It's pretty good but Gunstar Heroes and Bangai-O are better.

Alien Soldier is probably better too, I just haven't learned how to play it yet.

Star Successor is basically Treasure’s design, aesthetic and gameplay principles with a Nintendo budget and polish.
A very rare alignment of effort resulting in something extraordinary, even when compared to the impressive nature of Treasure’s prior output.
Nothing really compares.

Well said that man !

[Gamer707b]

S&P 2 was the game that started my love affair and got me to spend a small fortune procuring most of their games. Gamecube Ikaruga was my first Treasure game, but it was S&P 2 that had me go back and research all their past games. It's probably my most played game from them. I can pick it up anytime whether just to play a level or spend a whole Sunday on it. I do hear some say the first S&P is better. Maybe being a more grounded "pure" rail shooter and being much shorter? To me though, the second is superior, being that it's longer, it just feels more fulfilling to play. Maybe not the ideal game to play for a 1 sit 1cc clear though. Also, the controls work way better than it ever had the right to and obviously miles ahead of the first game. After playing all but 2 or 3 of their games, I can honestly say that this might be my favorite game from the company.

[xxx1993]

The final battle is epic. It's a one-man raid on the Nebulox's battleship in space similar to Chapter 4 of Ikaruga, while the Keepers lend you a hand for once, followed by a rematch with all five Nebulox members, similar to that of Gunstar Heroes and its sequel.

[kid aphex]

I also wanna mention how awesome the soundtrack is.
At first, I wasn’t really feeling it— it seemed a bit too repetitive.
But, I started listening to it outside of gameplay and it’s really, really grown on me.

It was done by Norio Hanzawa who composed quite a few of Treasure’s games.
Most notably (for me): Alien Soldier… which this soundtrack (for some reason) reminded me of…

For example, this track:
https://youtu.be/YuWOMAPralU
At the :25 second mark


Has the EXACT same melody as this track:
https://youtu.be/-5SR_sNheW8
At the :08 second mark

Exact! I love it (mostly because I love Alien Soldier)

[guigui]

Seconding the soundtrack argument. The whole score for stage 2 is awesome.

[wiNteR]

* Play Stage Select and improve your score stage by stage
* If you're confident and crazy enough, go for the full run.

I agree with this. I think going stage-by-stage is a good idea if one isn't a fan of really long runs. Doing a no-miss clear on Normal (for each stage) is quite manageable after understanding the basics of each stage.

Back when I played it (over a decade ago), I just cleared the game on Hard but didn't go for a no-miss on the individual stages. Now I haven't played it after that, but going for no-miss on Hard for each individual stage seems a reasonable next step (but ofc if I do get to play it again).

Another thing is that game seems to become a bit easier if you die too many times on same checkpoint (happened to me on stage-1 boss on Hard difficulty ..... the damage of attacks was reduced after I had been stuck there for a while).

[guigui]

^ I was not aware of the difficulty decreasing after several failed attempts, ala recent Mario games !
Another instance of the craziness of the whole Treasure meets Nintendo thing.

[Licorice]

My issue with the second Sin and Punishment was the amount of i-frames given on the roll. I remember there was a boss where I was just rolling around the screen clockwise, basically invulnerable, while pointing at targets, and waiting for the boss health bar to go down for 2 minutes. At that point I dropped the game.

[m.sniffles.esq]

My issue with the second Sin and Punishment was the amount of i-frames given on the roll. I remember there was a boss where I was just rolling around the screen clockwise, basically invulnerable, while pointing at targets, and waiting for the boss health bar to go down for 2 minutes. At that point I dropped the game.

Weeeeellll... That's sort of the very definition of 'cheesing'
If you find and exploit, and you want to abuse it, go right ahead. But to then turn around and say "pffft, that was WAY too easy"

[guigui]

Well, it is true that some parts of some bosses allow for infinite roll dodge. For instance first pattern of stage 1 boss is just this : roll around until he stops shooting at you.

Though it does not last for the whole fight, allows you to enjoy the soundtrack, and there is always something better coming.

[guigui]

Oh well this thread had me launch a run of the game, after almost 10+ years without touching it.

Dead on stage 3 sword fight with the lady before last boss. I had totally forgotten about her, but then suddenly remembered practicing her a lot to handle the timings.
Not bad I'd say. If veterans read this thread, try the 10+ years no training run ! It is fun playing for actual enjoyment of the game and getting as far as possible without caring for score.

[KennyMan666]

Agreed, I consider it to be Treasure's best game. Makes perfect use of the Wii controls.

[mitsuruga]

It is very unfortunate, that the game does no have more merchandise (Treasure games in gernal have very little merch). I´d love to own more than the game itself, as I consider it the climax of action games. I tried to 1cc the game, but it is very overwhelming to keep being concentrated for almost 2h

[MJR]

I came back to this game after few years of break, first I practised THAT swordfight, then I proceeded all the way to the end boss of Stage 4 (other dying point for me).. on my way I broke my records on almost every level

One of the main things to know about this, and it's predecessor is that the gameplay is almost exclusively built upon hitting back all the bigger enemy projectiles. Once you master this, you can expect much better scores.

This game is a masterpiece. I love every inch of it. There is nothing like this out there. It also has a downside, it makes me loath all those braindead mobile / AAA games with even more vitriol.

[guigui]

^ I think I remember you from the S&P2 thread right here, we had the best times with MMM.

That was such a good idea to practice the S3 sword fight before attempting a run ; incredibly I had totally forgotten about it and was expecting the big-chained-monster-in-the-background boss fight to start right after the multi-columns-hiding-the-real-column boss fight (memory is not good enough to remember the name of those guardians...)

Weirdly enough, I almost never had an issue on S4 last boss like you seem to have ... unless I forgot one ?

I also have to agree that the most efficient way to destroy things is to sword every swordable projectiles coming at you. The biggest damages in this game is done this way :
* sword projectiles, aim them back at big ennemies
* launch charged attack when ready
* sword projectiles, aim them back at big ennemies
* regular shot things during the 0.17 seconds where there is no projectile to sword
* sword projectiles, aim them back at big ennemies
* repeat

[evil_ash_xero]

I feel it's in their peak games. Easily, really. I just don't know where I'd rank it. I think Nintendo gave them a good budget since the N64 game did well on VC, so they went all out. They showed what they could
still do, if given the opportunity. It bombed horribly, and that was that. I think all we got after that was a sub par Bangai-O game. I think Star Successor is basically Treasure's swan song.

At least they got to make it. God, I would love a remaster of some sort.
I used to have a hi-def CRT, and playing this in progressive mode was the way to go. I only have normal CRTs now, and the jaggies are really noticeable.
I've seen it look great in emulation, but they always have bad input delay.