Games you believe are Underrated?

[Steven]

Well, Arcana Heart 3 LOVEMAX SIXSTARS!!!!!! XTEND, in addition to having a long-ass title that I just copy and paste from the Steam page whenever I need to type it, now has 26 characters and 25 arcanas, so you're looking at that many possible combinations. The 26th arcana never made it into the game because it was a Kickstarter stretch goal that never got met, so I'd say at least that game doesn't have a small roster but rather a pretty decent and varied one, but the amount of flexibility that the game gives you with arcana selections and how they completely change your character is really great. I used to mess around with Plant Kamui for some reason, but I think Plant has the worst defense modifier in the game, so you lose a lot of HP with Plant, but it does also depend partially on what the opponent picks.

It's a lot of fun to see what you can do with the arcanas, though; give a grappler like Kira really fast lasers with Love, increase your air movement even more than the game already allows with Wind, fuck around with the magnetic pull effect Magnetism has on your opponent... game's a lot of fun, but it is very intimidating because there is so much to learn and the game doesn't teach you anything at all. I seriously thought about picking up one of the Arcana Heart arcade games to put in my New Astro City and have that as an actual Arcana Heart machine, but the game needs a 31kHz monitor and the New Astro's is only a 24kHz monitor.

[Blinge]

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[KimagureMachibuse]

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

ever heard of a game named silent hill? pretty sure most people have not heard of it quite surprising not sure you heard of it so might as well mention it.

[Sima Tuna]

Did you know that Mario 2 is actually called Doki Doki Panic?

[KimagureMachibuse]

Did you know that Mario 2 is actually called Doki Doki Panic?

no way really? more people should know about that.

[To Far Away Times]

Space Invaders Extreme has seemingly limitless strategies for scoring and is super fun.

[XoPachi]

Sonic Advance trilogy.
Sega doesn't acknowledge them and people give them a lot of guff because of one or two brutal instances of troll enemy placement. I always thought they were excellent games given the hardware.

Contra Shattered Soldier
SplitGate
Aggelos
Monster Boy
Kaze and the Wild Masks

All these come to mind.

[BIL]

Most Contra fans like/love Shattered Soldier, in my experience. The ones who dislike its boss rush ethos tend to feel the same about Hard Corps and even Contra III. SS even got ok reviews in US/UK magazines at the time, and got Greatest Hits reprints in Japan.

Sadly, it wasn't long at all before Konami started going to utter bean counter-driven shit, ca 2005. Outsources and radio silence galore from that point to present, outside of MGS (and now Kojima's gone too, dohoho). Had Konami not decided to firebomb some 25 years of legacy and goodwill, I'm sure smaller-scale but niche-pleasing productions like SS, Neo Contra, and Gradius V would've happily continued on, even if in Japan only, given the positive fan+critic receptions and apparently decent sales.

[Air Master Burst]

Sonic Advance trilogy.
Sega doesn't acknowledge them and people give them a lot of guff because of one or two brutal instances of troll enemy placement. I always thought they were excellent games given the hardware.

SA1 is really good but the handling is kinda slow.

SA2 has godawful level design. Otherwise it's ok, I guess.

SA3 is fine. Better than 2 but worse than 1.

All of them have FUCKING TERRIBLE special stages.

Sonic Rush is better than all of them and gets even less respect.

[Sima Tuna]

Dead or Alive is underrated as hell. Everyone just thinks it's a titty simulator. Team Ninja's costume dlc whoring hasn't helped that impression either. Beneath all the tits, exploitation and more tits lies a fun and fast-paced 3d fighter. It focuses more on timing and correct reads and has a lower execution barrier than games such as Tekken or VF. But it's not too dissimilar to Virtua Fighter, actually. Some VF characters have taken on guest appearances in Dead or Alive games and they felt fairly faithful to their original versions. Like VF, DoA uses a guard, punch, kick button system and then adds a dedicated throw button on top. More than any other fighting game I've played, it's committed to a system of rock-paper-scissors-like reads. Throw beats block or deflect. Punch beats throw. Deflect beats punch. It's all about the mind games and spacing. Nothing is really "safe" in DoA, because almost anything can be deflected. Flip those giant anime titties on their back for MASSIVE DAMAGE.

If you're interested in DoA, I think it's actually better to start with the pre-HD ones. Pre-HD, you see, also means Pre-DLC. No DLC means no downloading 600 costume catalogue items before you're allowed to boot up the game. Dead or Alive 3 is my favorite, but most people will probably like DoA 2 Ultimate/Hardcore/SuperTurboChampionHyperFighting more.

[Blinge]

Ikaruga

[Kriegor]

Dead or Alive is underrated as hell. Everyone just thinks it's a titty simulator. Team Ninja's costume dlc whoring hasn't helped that impression either. Beneath all the tits, exploitation and more tits lies a fun and fast-paced 3d fighter. It focuses more on timing and correct reads and has a lower execution barrier than games such as Tekken or VF. But it's not too dissimilar to Virtua Fighter, actually. Some VF characters have taken on guest appearances in Dead or Alive games and they felt fairly faithful to their original versions. Like VF, DoA uses a guard, punch, kick button system and then adds a dedicated throw button on top. More than any other fighting game I've played, it's committed to a system of rock-paper-scissors-like reads. Throw beats block or deflect. Punch beats throw. Deflect beats punch. It's all about the mind games and spacing. Nothing is really "safe" in DoA, because almost anything can be deflected. Flip those giant anime titties on their back for MASSIVE DAMAGE.

If you're interested in DoA, I think it's actually better to start with the pre-HD ones. Pre-HD, you see, also means Pre-DLC. No DLC means no downloading 600 costume catalogue items before you're allowed to boot up the game. Dead or Alive 3 is my favorite, but most people will probably like DoA 2 Ultimate/Hardcore/SuperTurboChampionHyperFighting more.

I kind of see it as the fusion between wrestling games and fighting games. You have that shifumi style of gameplay akin to wrestling games, with strikes beating grabs beating blocks/holds. And characters have a shit ton of throws. Also because of all the counter animations, it looks more realistic. But the fundations are basically Virtua Fighter. It's fast, side viewed, combo heavy, juggle heavy (a concession to realism) and, overall, feels a lot like a sped up VF.

My favorite fighting game franchise. People who likes fair games and clear advantages don't like it, but if you're into devil stuff like SFIII, then it's as diabolical and addictive. Outside DOA5, it's also very easy to get into. I also recommand 2, 3 or 4, the fun ones. After that, they switched to a 4-way hold system, more complex combos and non animated arenas. All of these changes made the game more palatable for the most competitive playerbase, helping them get more consistancy, but it also made Dead or Alive less unique, basically a refuge for VF players.

Something to note as well is that this franchise has always been at the very top technically speaking. Outside the first one (which was still outstanding for a first entry), every released games have been the most beautiful 3D fighting game of their time.

[Sima Tuna]

I was playing Dead or Alive 3 just yesterday, running my original xbox disc on an xbox 360, and thinking to myself that it looks functionally the same as any modern fighting game. Dead or Alive 3 came out in 2001! Modern fighting games have more effects (bloom, particles), but in terms of the quality of the models and how the game looks in motion, it's basically as good as anything still around. Dead or Alive 3 was an absolute monster in the visuals department when it originally released on OG Xbox. Along with Ninja Gaiden, there was nothing that could touch it (visually) on any console of the era.

But fighting games have often been front-runners in visuals. Virtua Fighter 2 came out in 1994 and it's beyond impressive for its age. When you follow the line of Virtua Fighter into DoA, you can see the clear influence of one on the other and how much the two really are sister series, playing with similar concepts. Just as well, since VF is essentially dead. They can re-release VF5 as many times as they want on modern consoles, but without a new game to play, the audience will remain stagnant. Which is sad, as I do like VF5.

[DMC]

Childhood nostalgia speaking but Player Manager 2 Extra (1995) by ANCO really stood out as a football manager game that was not just a boring wall of text, but rather stimulated your fantasy.
The point-and-click interface was a good example. Instead of ordinary text menus you had to click on the room corresponding to what you wanted to do.
For example, entering the library if you wanted to check some records, or entering your office and picking up the phone if you wanted to speak to some agents (who always complained that you never buyed their players).
If you lost a couple of matches in a row, you would be asked to join the board meeting and explain yourself.

It had some quirky features. One example was that you were only allowed to save 6 times or so, or otherwise something bad would happen (glandular fever spreading in your squad until you did not have enough players to start the next match).

It was one of my favorites-of-all-time and I was quite surprised when I saw a Swedish PC magazine rated it 0 out of 5 (probably they hated the poor Swedish translation).

[Air Master Burst]

Along with Ninja Gaiden, there was nothing that could touch it (visually) on any console of the era.

This is just patently false, I can think of at least half a dozen other Xbox games that look at least that good, and a few on GC and PS2 as well. Resident Evil 0 and 1 are still absolute stunners, but even if you don't count prerendered backgrounds there's still stuff like MGS2, Gran Turismo, Splinter Cell, Otogi, Panzer Dragoon Orta, and probably plenty more if I actually sat down and thought about it.

That's also assuming realistic-style 3D graphics, because there are plenty of 2D and cel-shaded games that you could make a case for, too.

[To Far Away Times]

Dead or Alive is underrated as hell. Everyone just thinks it's a titty simulator. Team Ninja's costume dlc whoring hasn't helped that impression either. Beneath all the tits, exploitation and more tits lies a fun and fast-paced 3d fighter. It focuses more on timing and correct reads and has a lower execution barrier than games such as Tekken or VF. But it's not too dissimilar to Virtua Fighter, actually. Some VF characters have taken on guest appearances in Dead or Alive games and they felt fairly faithful to their original versions. Like VF, DoA uses a guard, punch, kick button system and then adds a dedicated throw button on top. More than any other fighting game I've played, it's committed to a system of rock-paper-scissors-like reads. Throw beats block or deflect. Punch beats throw. Deflect beats punch. It's all about the mind games and spacing. Nothing is really "safe" in DoA, because almost anything can be deflected. Flip those giant anime titties on their back for MASSIVE DAMAGE.

If you're interested in DoA, I think it's actually better to start with the pre-HD ones. Pre-HD, you see, also means Pre-DLC. No DLC means no downloading 600 costume catalogue items before you're allowed to boot up the game. Dead or Alive 3 is my favorite, but most people will probably like DoA 2 Ultimate/Hardcore/SuperTurboChampionHyperFighting more.

Absolutely. DOA 2 through 5 is a fantastic series. Just the right amount of complexity and top tier mind games. Also, once you start baiting your opponent into guessing on counters you can throw them with an unbreakable throw for 1.5x damage. Stagger your combo, get the counter whiff and get more damage out of the throw. Lots of really cool ideas in that game that are easy to execute.

[Sengoku Strider]

As a big fan of abstract art, I gotta say that game looks appealing.

Screenshot looks a bit blurry but this game does sound quite interesting may have to look it up

Lol, it's an animated gif but I forgot imgur gets stupid with those sometimes. I don't remember what the fix is, there's like one sub menu where the link works or something.

Treasure's Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyo Toitsusen is another one worth mentioning, an incredible effort for a 16-bit console-exclusive, anime-based vs.fighting game. One of the best Mega Drive games.

It doesn't have much of a profile in the West because we never got it, but in the final reader rankings for Mega Drive Beep! magazine, it was actually voted the #1 Mega Drive game (3rd overall, behind Lunar EB & After Burner 32X):

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70329

The Metal Gear Acid games are pretty underrated, too. Until Fights In Tight Spaces came out they were my favorite deckbuilders, but sadly they came out back before deckbuilders were something most people gave a shit about. I think these are still lumped together as "those weird PSP card games" by MGS fans.

I loved those games! The first Ac!d was the game that finally made me 'get' Metal Gear. I played Metal Gear Solid through Bleemcast!, and I just thought it was completely stupid. I remembered the NES games as straightforward military affairs (as NES games went), and after hearing all this stuff about Tactical Espionage Action I went in expecting Splinter Cell or something (which didn't exist yet, but you get the drift). So when I got "Do you believe in love on the battlefield?" I was like, what is this cringefest? These reviewers & internet people drooling over this game are morons.

Ac!d showed me that Metal Gear wasn't stupid, the whole series was just sublimely concentrated absurdity mixing manga tropes with Reagan-era action movie tropes with whatever military pop history books & Japanese gun otaku magazines Kojima had flipped through recently. The people trying to make it gaming's Citizen Kane were still dumb as bricks, but at least there was an over the top pop-madness energy to it worth getting into. Like if Tommy Wiseau directed a Chuck Norris movie.

[Air Master Burst]

It's pretty obvious Kojima stopped giving a shit after MGS2 since all the mainline games after that are varying degrees of unplayable. Fortunately, the team making the Acid games still cared quite a bit! The stories are pretty underrated, especially Acid 2, but the first one has a perfectly respectable near-future technobabble conspiracy.

Metal Gear 2 needs more respect put on it, too. A surprising amount of the things people thought were revolutionary in MGS actually appeared in MG2 first.

If we really want to get into the weeds, the OG PS2 versions of MGS2 and especially MGS3 are very underrated. MGS2 has skateboarding, and the original US release of SOL has uncensored blood as well as branded FHM posters. MGS3 had Duel Mode, an Ape Escape minigame, and the TOTALLY AWESOME Guy Savage dream (which is a pretty great little character action romp, apparently it was built on the otherwise-unused bones of what would have been ZOE 3), although the 30 FPS makes it hard to recommend over the HD remake (honestly I wouldn't recommend it at all, it's a total drag to try to play by modern standards, and I say this as someone who got FoxHound on both Snake Eater and Subsistence).

Front Mission as a series is pretty underrated, too, but I think that's because most people only played the shitty 3rd one.

[Sengoku Strider]

It's pretty obvious Kojima stopped giving a shit after MGS2 since all the mainline games after that are varying degrees of unplayable.

I think it's more that Kojima's not (or wasn't) super in-tune with the kinesthetic elements of gameplay. MGS & ZoE were both terribly mechanical and unintuitive in how their controls were put together. Both games are supposed to be about quick, agile on-screen avatars, but feel like piloting a forklift.

[Air Master Burst]

Actually I think MGS2 still handles like a dream. The controls are pretty complex, but they're super responsive and once you internalize them they work perfectly. Aiming the Stinger is probably the hardest thing to learn, but only the Harrier fight on higher difficulties really forces you to do so.

MGS1 is a bit clunky but is at least fairly simple, although aiming grenades can be annoying.

MGS3 is the clunkiest playing title in the series by a long shot. 4 may have sucked way more but at least it handled ok. Everything about playing 3 is painful, from the endless menu digging to the stupid d-pad sneaking to the horrible pressure-sensitive CQC controls... even basic aiming is kinda hard due to the framerate, although the HD collection at least fixes that.

I remember ZOE handling pretty well too, but it's been a long time and I might be thinking of the A.C.E. games instead.

[To Far Away Times]

I was a little disappointed in MGS2 when it came out. I didn't like the bait and switch, nor the new characters and story as much.

It certainly is an impressive game filled with tons of cool details. And it's pretty forward thinking for it's time. It still has some details that you still don't see in modern games. Ice cubes can be knocked out of a try and will slowly melt, shooting a fire extinguisher will obscure your vision like a smoke grenade, you can shoot out lights to help you hide, things like that.

It's still a well made game, but I don't love it the way I do MGS1, even if MGS2 plays better. The first hour on the tanker is incredible though.

[Sima Tuna]

I don't imagine any posters on this forum will agree with me, but I think EDF is an underrated series. People denigrate these games in much the same way they do for the Musou genre. "All you do is shoot with no strategy."

Well yes, if you play on the easiest difficulty and play badly, then yes that is all you do. To play well requires situational awareness. Your character is very powerful but also very vulnerable. It's easy to chain damage into death if you get cornered.

EDF has always been more than a little jank, and more than a little corny. It leans heavily into '60s science fiction b-movie atmosphere, and even the gameplay has that low-budget feel to it. But I think it's one of the most good-hearted games around. EDF games like 2017, 2 and 4.1 released with a shitload of levels and weapons. Some might deride these games as simplistic, but they're committed to their vision of giving you lots of aliens to shoot. The character classes play so differently from each other it's almost like playing another game. Every enemy type is unique too.

What do you think? I expect a lot of disagreement, honestly. EDF as a series doesn't always make a good first impression.

[o.pwuaioc]

I was a little disappointed in MGS2 when it came out. I didn't like the bait and switch, nor the new characters and story as much.

It certainly is an impressive game filled with tons of cool details. And it's pretty forward thinking for it's time. It still has some details that you still don't see in modern games. Ice cubes can be knocked out of a try and will slowly melt, shooting a fire extinguisher will obscure your vision like a smoke grenade, you can shoot out lights to help you hide, things like that.

It's still a well made game, but I don't love it the way I do MGS1, even if MGS2 plays better. The first hour on the tanker is incredible though.

I can admit that parts of MGS2 improved on MGS, but man oh man, I too absolutely hated the bait and switch. It's one of the handful of games I beat just out of spite. Pretty sure I got rid of it asap afterward. That game was so hyped for me. I remember playing VR Missions in the lead up to it. Then when I got to play this pansy dandy, I was not happy.

It actually soured me on the whole series. I never gave the series another fair shake, and never even bothered with 4 and 5.

Fuck that game.

[BIL]

I didn't mind the switch at all in concept, but I think they really broke the camel's back with just how god-awful Jack's character could be. Petulant and dumb as rocks. Couldn't really buy him as even a (VR) SUPER TROOPER. Hell, couldn't buy him as a traumatised ex-child soldier.

Snake: "Raiden, huh. Interesting codename."
Jack: "Beats the BORING ONE my PARENTS gave me!"

(to the game's credit, Snake rolls his eyes much as the audience does; however, he should've then put Jack in a chokehold and taken all his guns before the creepy, heavily-armed EdgyBoi could pull a Columbine)

Colonel: "Jack, for this apocalyptic counter-terror op, we've parachuted your girlfriend in as mission control."
Jack: "Oh wow! That sounds totally legit!"
Colonel: "Yes, it's why police and military are traditionally paired with family members!"
Jack: "Hey Rose, remember when we watched King Dong together?!"

As to the game itself, though? Actually really fuckin good. Even on stock PS2 the framerate and controls are impressively sharp, and there's lots of finesse mechanics to utilise, both for BB rank and simple entertainment. Just the Porno Mag alone offers hours of (NoFap friendly!) fun! I had a good time clearing Euro Extreme BITD, with a godawful rank if I recall, but I didn't care.

[To Far Away Times]

I was a little disappointed in MGS2 when it came out. I didn't like the bait and switch, nor the new characters and story as much.

It certainly is an impressive game filled with tons of cool details. And it's pretty forward thinking for it's time. It still has some details that you still don't see in modern games. Ice cubes can be knocked out of a try and will slowly melt, shooting a fire extinguisher will obscure your vision like a smoke grenade, you can shoot out lights to help you hide, things like that.

It's still a well made game, but I don't love it the way I do MGS1, even if MGS2 plays better. The first hour on the tanker is incredible though.

I can admit that parts of MGS2 improved on MGS, but man oh man, I too absolutely hated the bait and switch. It's one of the handful of games I beat just out of spite. Pretty sure I got rid of it asap afterward. That game was so hyped for me. I remember playing VR Missions in the lead up to it. Then when I got to play this pansy dandy, I was not happy.

It actually soured me on the whole series. I never gave the series another fair shake, and never even bothered with 4 and 5.

Fuck that game.

I am the same way to some extent. Never played 4 and 5. I thought the series was running out of steam real quick, and mediocre reviews of the later entries sorta scared me away.

I have a positive overall impression of MGS2 for what it was, but I don't think of it as an essential game like I do of the original MGS.

[Air Master Burst]

Raiden being a dunce was kind of the point, though, and it allowed them to make Snake look like way more of a badass than he ever did in MGS1. I always liked the poor kid, he was just really dumb and easily programmed. Rose does get pretty annoying, though. Fortunately, she's nowhere to be found in Revengeance.

Actually, I think one reason a lot of people subconsciously hated Raiden so much was because he reminded them of how dumb they felt during the clumsier moments of their first time blundering through MGS1.

Big Boss on MGS2 EE is still one of my prouder gaming achievements, the time and max save requirements make it kinda ridiculous. Learning how to absolutely crush the Fatman fight quickly enough was pretty satisfying.

[BIL]

Big Boss on MGS2 EE is still one of my prouder gaming achievements, the time and max save requirements make it kinda ridiculous.

Jesus, I can imagine.

Thinking back, what I loved about that mode from casual perspective was that you couldn't do *too* awfully, you either get captured or shot. So each part of the game became a self-contained challenge, which in turn made going back to plain old Extreme a blast, improvising out of the occasional Alert and generally sweeping through in (VR) Space SEAL style.

[Air Master Burst]

Yeah, even just figuring out the most efficient routes and where the best places to save are took a couple dozen runs. Getting it down to a low enough time for Big Boss took a month or two of pretty hardcore play(Although these days with youtube videos you could probably get it down in a couple weeks if you already know the controls pretty well).

The guard AI in MGS2 Extreme is still one of the most cunning and brutal in all of stealth gaming, and the level design is all built around it to great effect. Dumbing down the guards is another misstep MGS3 should have avoided, especially since the levels were so open. 4 and 5 and the others didn't bring it back, either.

[Gamer707b]

ETA:

Okinawa Rush (very slept on)

OK, I've seen you rep this enough that you've convinced me to give it a shot!

Let me know what you think. The combat system is very intricate for a 2d game. Imagine if Fight 'n' Rage actually required you to learn parries in order to progress.

I think Okinawa Rush is the best (new) game nobody is playing. The community for this game is nonexistent and I don't know why. How often do we even get good martial arts action games?

I admire what the one man team Developer did with Fight N Rage, but I feel it is almost, no, it is too much. It felt like an Rpg that if I was away from it for a while, I would forget how to play and would have to re-learn everything. I want a more pick up and play beat em up. Still a really good game, just not my favorite.

Man, all this MGS talk is taking me back. I was a young adult, tired of all the "baby cliche" games and learned about the first MGS in a gaming mag. Got the demo and must've played it a half dozen times. Got the full game, still have it with the metal book, t-shirt and dog tag for pre-ordering. Still have everything but the shirt. Loved it. Finished it maybe 100 times. Played MGS 2 and was amazed by the Tanker chapter. Obviously didn't like the rest of the game as much, but still got all the soldier dog tags, finished it on all the difficulties and so on.

My Jam though was MGS 3. Loved the whole outdoor thing, the CQC, the story and bosses. Best bosses in the whole series IMO. Played 4 and liked it, but it felt very "broken" up. It didn't feel whole or had any continuity. Peace Walker was also really good and I feel very under rated. 5 was dog poop for me. Don't like the whole open world thing and even less in a MGS game. At that point, Kojima was trying to get on the open world bandwagon. It lacked the MGS soul. Hardly any story (I know there are tapes but not the same) or cutscenes and what happened to the bosses!? One of the best parts of the series was pretty much taken out.

[pegboy]

Metal gear solid 2 is like the best game of its type ever made. Unfortunately it also contains the worst story and characters ever put into a video game.