Blinge wrote:It's such a redundant statement. It has 0 worth.
tell me the ways it's OoT 2.0..?
WW is just OoT 2.0 but you spend time in a boat also. There's no other difference?
Same graphical style
OoT songs are repeated
Character designs are essentially OoT with upgraded gamecube visuals
Large castle town
Water temple redux
Zora and most other life forms pretty much in OoT incarnations
Colored tunics that have unique abilities
TP brings back the fishing minigame from OoT[/spoiler]
It's easier to list the ways it is not like the other post-OoT 3d zeldas. No wind waker boat with a massive open/empty world connecting dungeons. No emphasis on masks. No day progression system. No bomber's notebook. Those are all major design elements which TP chose to leave behind.
a guide for MM? idk, git gud?
Oh, is that how you get all of the masks in majora? You
just get good? It's
only a skill issue? There's no extremely obscure bullshit?
Execution in (3d) Zelda is nearly nonexistent (because combat is 2EZ). How do you git gud about obscure triggers for things you don't know exist? The game just straight-up doesn't tell you tons of shit and you have to either figure it out yourself (if you can) or (what people actually do) look it up online. People have been reading online faqs for majora's mask since the earliest days of gamefaqs. It isn't just how little the game tells you, but how specific and time-sensitive some of the triggers are.
Also I liked you read my entire long post and picked out maybe 2 things I said to get mad over. Wind Waker is not just OoT 2.0 and you know this. Every bit of WW content, which would normally be in a 3d Zelda game, has been chopped apart, placed on islands and set 4000 miles from the nearest bit of other content in the game. That's the largest design difference. You can't play OoT and WW the same way. I didn't even mention the triforce piece hunt, which adds this massive endgame fetch quest to a WW playthrough which isn't present in OoT. The closest analogue I can think of is a similar key hunt in metroid prime. Leaving aside the fact Wind Waker looks and sounds different from Ocarina, whereas Twilight Princess specifically apes the colors and visual style of OoT (minus the dark world stuff, which is original,) it's easy to see all the ways that Twilight Princess was an attempt to follow up on Ocarina of Time for the next generation. One of the BIGGEST criticisms of Wind Waker when it launched was how different it looked and felt from Ocarina of Time. A lot of normies couldn't get over that. Twilight Princess was nintendo's attempt to win those people over, and it worked. The versions of Zelda, Link and Ganondorf in Twilight Princess are nearly 1-for-1 recreations of their OoT counterparts.
Of course, people also came to appreciate wind waker more over the years, too. I don't think wind waker is a bad game. But whenever I start a new file in WW, I inevitably find myself wanting to quit when I'm stuck in "between" sections of the game. When you're not actively solving a dungeon, Wind Waker's amount of stalling and time-wasting bullshit can be extremely aggravating. Even when you warp, WW doesn't warp you right next to the island. Not only you have to play a song to warp (get out your baton, play the song, pick the spot on the map that's closest to your objective, watch the cutscene) but you'll still usually be placed so far out into the ocean that you STILL have to equip your sail and STILL might have to play the baton song to change the breeze direction. All of that to go from one island (you've been to already) to another island (you've been to already.) If you want to go to an island you
haven't been to yet (and haven't been anywhere close to yet), get ready to spend a lot of time watching the waves crash against your ship.
What part of that is anything like Ocarina of Time? In OoT, most zones are fairly small. Hyrule Field is still too big, but it's way smaller in practice than WW's ocean. And there's no wind/sail system to constantly require menu fuckery. Warps in OoT are also pretty much directly to the place you want to go. Which is how Twilight Princess does things, too. TP's warp system is more convenient than OoT, which I chalk up to incremental improvement on design.
Of course, there are some gameplay additions that get carried from game to game in every Zelda title. Like, the ability to pick weapons up off the ground clearly came from Wind Waker over to Twilight Princess, right? Same with the counter move.
I really don't think it's controversial to say that Twilight Princess was nintendo's own attempt to recapture the lightning-in-a-bottle, overwhelmingly positive response they received to Ocarina of Time. Especially after their last two console Zeldas had received more mixed reception (MM and Wind Waker, respectively.) Nintendo often does this. They'll make a game people really love, and then they'll use that goodwill to put out a few more experimental titles, where they try going in different directions. Sometimes that works out. If it doesn't, then they'll usually put out a "safe" game that repackages and reworks ideas from the old, beloved title while bringing the visual and auditory presentation up to the then-modern standard.