Games that are Overrated

[KimagureMachibuse]

I only got into Mario 64 on the Wii U. I concur with it feeling a little clunky, at least there. For a first stab at free-roaming 3D platforming they obviously nailed it and then some, it's not like its reputation wasn't well earned. But two decades of refinement in 3D cameras, controls & environment design have left it feeling a bit out of date imo. I was expecting wow but did not receive wow. I'd say Ocarina's in the same boat these days. Stuff like Paper Mario totally holds up though.

glad to see someone else gets where i am coming from with my problem with its controls.
movement for the most part is okay and all but stuff like wall jumping is pretty jank and wing cap was peculiar to controll to in some ways.

while mario 64 is not the worst platformer in existsance it can be quite overhyped and most critisim of it gets bad light on it due to rose tinted glasses with it. it was one of the few early examples of its type but now there are far better 3D games to play even ones in the same generation as it.

Zelda Ocarina of time not played it before because i have very little interest in n64 and i never played much rpgs aside from Alundra and Story of Thor 2 both cool games btw I did play.

[To Far Away Times]

I think it's worth mentioning just how fundamental to 3D game design Mario 64 was. I expect modern games to be more refined 26 years later. But relative to it's peers there was no equal to Mario 64 or a game that was worthy of comparison, and there has not been a paradigm shift like it since. Jaws were dropped and pants were shat across the world playing something like that in 1996.

There are also a not insignificant amount of people online who complain when 3D Mario's movement makes any deviation from the Mario 64 controls. So it more than holds up, even today.

It's also got a killer OST that we just take for granted. Dire Dire Docks is legendary. Required learning for those who's venn diagram of hobbies includes games and guitar.

[Air Master Burst]

I think it's worth mentioning just how fundamental to 3D game design Mario 64 was. I expect modern games to be more refined 26 years later. But relative to it's peers there was no equal to Mario 64 or a game that was worthy of comparison, and there has not been a paradigm shift like it since. Jaws were dropped and pants were shat across the world playing something like that in 1996.

I was a PC gamer in the 90s so Mario 64 didn't drop my jaw, Quake came out the same week and I'd been playing Descent for almost a year at that point. And depending on how you define "peers" I'd take Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, and Rayman 2 over Mario 64 all day every day (especially Rayman 2).

No argument on the music, though.

[KimagureMachibuse]

I was a PC gamer in the 90s so Mario 64 didn't drop my jaw, Quake came out the same week and I'd been playing Descent for almost a year at that point. And depending on how you define "peers" I'd take Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, and Rayman 2 over Mario 64 all day every day (especially Rayman 2).

Basically Exactly the same way i think with you Spyro the Dragon and Crash Bandicoot blow 64 out of the water for me anyday 64s graphics dont look to impressive for me and spyro and crash offer much more in general and have better controls that is not even a question or debate, rayman 2 i was not to keen on but found it solid i vastly prefer the first Rayman game better despite its difficulty the first rayman game is pure eye candy and that soundtrack of it is just... dreamy, to irrestible to not listen too once in a while.

No argument on the music, though.

Mario 64s music does not really wow me though not suprising for a system that does not have a dedicated sound chip
but i found it to be a solid listen to mainly due to the wingcap song


People also seem to forget Jumping Flash on the PS1 as an example of proper early 3D gaming although more of a fps in some ways is a very influential more so than 64 for me and it predates it by a year too. also has a really cool soundtrack to it and vibrant visuals.

[BrianC]

I Would have gladly taken the games more cartoony and colorful look with its early incarnation over the final games dull color scheme bleuugh.

That screen looks less colorful than the final and a bit dark.

[Sima Tuna]

I didn't play Spyro until I was an adult, but Spyro 2 and 3 definitely blew me away. Very impressive games for such early 3d titles, and infinitely replayable. Piss easy games, but that's not the worst crime.

[KimagureMachibuse]

I Would have gladly taken the games more cartoony and colorful look with its early incarnation over the final games dull color scheme bleuugh.

That screen looks less colorful than the final and a bit dark.

mainy due to how it was captured. but too me it does look more mysterious which is why i prefer it even if not entirely brightly lit compared to final

here are two other early screenshots that have the more cartoony look such as with the enemies and look of the stage its also in the font for the hud text and icons

[Sumez]

Psh. Overrated!

[Sumez]

I was a PC gamer in the 90s so Mario 64 didn't drop my jaw, Quake came out the same week and I'd been playing Descent for almost a year at that point.

I'd played a lot of Quake before I got around to Mario 64, but it didn't really change my impression of it, the games are so different in so many ways it's hard to even see the similarities, though obviously both games were massive steps forward for 3D gaming. Quake taking the FPS format (and games as a whole) into full 3D, and Mario doing the same for platformers.

I think what made Mario 64 really notable at the time though wasn't so much genre innovation specifically, but the ways the stages just felt like completely open playgrounds, like you're immediately interacting with an entire world, rather than just facing a bunch of polygons at a time. It's really hard to explain what that paradigm shift meant today where this is simply the standard for every new game, but it's definitely something very different from Quake's murky corridors.

Of course a big part of it had to do with the third person perspective and zoomed out camera, and more than anything how the game's controls worked in relation to that. Mario felt much more deattached from the 3D camera than anything we had played before, but aside from that I don't think it really relates to the presumed "issues" with the game's "clunky" controls.
Mario 64 was a massive milestone, but what matters more right now is how well the game holds up today - I don't want to ever conflate historical significance or personal nostalgia with objective and timeless truths about a game's qualities... And arguing that the same generation has a lot of much better 3D platformers is, uh, an interesting perspective

[Air Master Burst]

And arguing that the same generation has a lot of much better 3D platformers is, uh, an interesting perspective

Mario 64 is better than most of the 3D platformers of that era, I just don't think it's the best (Rayman 2 takes that handily). It's certainly better than any of Rare's output and 90% of the shovelware on PS1!

[TransatlanticFoe]

I only played Mario 64 with the 3D All Stars release (my gaming timeline in the 90s into 2000 was SMS -> SNES -> PC -> Dreamcast - so I missed out on all the PSX/N64 hype trains). While it shows its age a lot in terms of the camera, it's really in the ballpark of classic Resi tank controls - the best solution at the time and something which is ultimately fine to play today once you get used to it. I found it a little slipperly to control at first but soon got used to it.

I have absolutely no nostalgia for it and had a good time with it. It did shed some light on Mario Odyssey for me as well (which I enjoyed but wasn't wowed by) - because I did wonder why the overexcitement for that... yeah, a lot of nostalgia for Mario 64. Turns out I'm not a huge fan of the core "explore an open area and find things to progress" - I much prefer the linear stage structure of 2D Mario (and 3D World, which I absolutely loved when I finally got to play it on Switch) with hidden stuff along the way.

Overrated? Not in the slightest. It was groundbreaking at the time - full 3D explorable environments, with environmental puzzles and a tonne of content to enjoy (or skip to the end if prefer). Not a narrow funnel or outright 2D (Crash), or short FPS hybrid (Jumping Flash), or released 2+ years later (Spyro, Rayman 2). It's like trying to say the original Super Mario Bros. is overrated. Have things moved on? Of course. Are there better examples of the genre a year or two later? Of course. Is it still fun to play? Of fucking course!!

[KimagureMachibuse]

I didn't play Spyro until I was an adult, but Spyro 2 and 3 definitely blew me away. Very impressive games for such early 3d titles, and infinitely replayable. Piss easy games, but that's not the worst crime.

Spyro The Dragon is perhaps the most challenging with some of the levels like tree tops lofty castle and haunted towers requireing you to have to time the jumps along with the super charge which find to be a cool challenge and wish more levels did that regardless its my favorite out of three which may sound odd but it has my favorite aesthetic and soundtrack out of the trilogy but the 2 others are still cool.

And yeah there are very techincal and impressive with all the cool techniques they did mainly the first spyro game for me is the most impressive though. but regardless really impressive for the generation used the PS1 hardware to the fullest

[Konsolkongen]

Elden Ring. What the hell?

[Sima Tuna]

Elden Ring. What the hell?

It's a case of "modern gaming is so full of shit that any halfway-decent game that comes out seems amazing by comparison."

[Blinge]

Zelda Ocarina of time not played it before because i have very little interest in n64 and i never played much rpgs aside from Alundra and Story of Thor 2 both cool games btw I did play.

Shmups Farm in 2022, everybody.

This is where we're at.

the above quote requires several readings in order to squeeze all the little gems out.

[Sumez]

Turns out I'm not a huge fan of the core "explore an open area and find things to progress" - I much prefer the linear stage structure of 2D Mario (and 3D World, which I absolutely loved when I finally got to play it on Switch) with hidden stuff along the way.

I'm in the same boat here for sure, which is why Galaxy absolutely walks all over 64, it's just pure streamlined and creative Mario platforming gameplay executed to perfection.
But for what it does, 64 pretty much does it as well as it can, even better than I'd expect any other game to do that today.

[KimagureMachibuse]

Elden Ring. What the hell?

It's a case of "modern gaming is so full of shit that any halfway-decent game that comes out seems amazing by comparison."

This i side with

there can be great modern day games and saying otherwise is wrong

however most try to be flashy and grandious while not having much gameplay in them or are full of fluff.

[KimagureMachibuse]

Zelda Ocarina of time not played it before because i have very little interest in n64 and i never played much rpgs aside from Alundra and Story of Thor 2 both cool games btw I did play.

Shmups Farm in 2022, everybody.

This is where we're at.

the above quote requires several readings in order to squeeze all the little gems out.

I dont see whats too hard to understand here i really never grew up or played RPG's much thus i genreally liked other genres instead. there are rpgs i would like to play like Beyond Oasis but not really ones im in a hurry for.

the 2 RPG's i did play like i did really like even though those puzzles are really cryptic in Alundra i did like its unique idea with Dreams something really never done with other RPG and its art direction and soundtrack are absolutley stunning

Legend of Oasis i have not touched in a while but was a cool sequel to Beyond Oasis.

I also once played Super Mario RPG and really liked that one loved the stop motion look with that game too but its been a good couple of years with that one.

My Dislike for N64 is for i have very many reasons for and i will explain them well if thats enough for you to handle.

The console has such a miniscule library of games plus missing a ton of genres compared to other consoles.
not to mention the use of cartridges lead to heavily compromized games.

Point and case mostly crappy framerate in games muddy colors for the most part and plenty of fog and in the case removed content when it came to games being ported over and my dislike for the N64 controller should not come off as not being surprising.

there was a reason most 3rd party companies ditched the system.

The system does not have a dedicated sound chip at all and thus all the music had to be done by the system which ate up storage on games and thus hurt most sound produced on the system point blank cartridges were not a good choice, nintendo used to cheap out on something with there consoles like the CPU with SNES but no soundchip and using cartridges really made no sense with N64.

There are really not much truly exclusive 64 games to be revisted most have been re-released and are far better to play usually with a way better desinged controller.

Good ones on the system do exist like Blast Corps Paper mario Sanfransico Rush Space Sillicon Valley and ones that are exclusive to the system like Mischief Makers and goemon.

but not enough to really warrent owning one. PS1 any day for me.

[BIL]

Sin & Punishment aka ALIEN SOLDIER 2 (be VERY careful challenging me on that subtitle, I'll split your asshole in half right here in front of everyone THERE IS NO SHAME IN THE PATH OF THE RIGHTEOUSLY GOD-FEARING MAN ) and Virtual Pro Wrestling 2, the finest party/hardcore crossover brawler ever (EZ to pick up, but mash on a pro? prepare to search for your missing teeth with a broken arm and a pair of black eyes) are ENTIRELY SUFFICIENT to make the N64 MUST-HAVE GEAR in any self-respecting HARD GAYMER STASH.

A CORNERED FOX IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN A JACKAL (｀ω´メ)







Take it you FUCKS (｀ω´メ)

Like seriously, check your panties to make sure you're packing a BIG STIFF COCKEREL and not a DAMP SOFT COONT if you think anything I've typed is remotely controversial.

I'll split 90% of you casual bitches RIM FROM RIM with my 1LC list - I know what I'm talking about sonny.

[Air Master Burst]

No Mercy is better than VPW2, but that's only because I'm a garbage American who grew up on ECW and loves all the stupid hardcore shit.

Sin and Punishment does sorta feel like Alien Soldier, although it's way easier and doesn't have a control scheme that feels like you need robot fingers to play correctly.

[Volteccer_Jack]

I had previously dismissed Sin and Punishment because the sort of people who usually champion it are the sort of people who have never played half the classics they venerate, but if it has anything in common with Alien Soldier then I will have to give it a spin.

I have absolutely no nostalgia for it and had a good time with it. It did shed some light on Mario Odyssey for me as well (which I enjoyed but wasn't wowed by) - because I did wonder why the overexcitement for that... yeah, a lot of nostalgia for Mario 64. Turns out I'm not a huge fan of the core "explore an open area and find things to progress" - I much prefer the linear stage structure of 2D Mario (and 3D World, which I absolutely loved when I finally got to play it on Switch) with hidden stuff along the way.

The big appeal of Mario 64 is more about creative traversal than about exploration (for exploration/collecting, the game to go to is Banjo). Best exemplified by Tick Tock Clock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRmJuLdrjjQ
There's two kinds of 3D platformer fans: people who love Tick Tock Clock, and fake platformer fans

Also of all the 3D Mario games, 64 is the one with the least amount of gimmicky time-wasting bullcrap. "WHOA YOU CAN TURN INTO A T-REX" can you please just not, Nintendo? I'm here to jump from a vanishing platform onto a spinning one, not to play a hundred terrible minigames. Galaxy 2 was probably the worst about this, it had great level design but you hardly notice cuz you spend most of your time not getting to play the levels.

3D World bored me to tears because the game pretty much completely squanders the third dimension, it's a game that could be remade in 2D and not lose anything important. Plus the whole game revolves around the catsuit, a power which utterly trivializes 90% of challenges.

[KimagureMachibuse]

I had previously dismissed Sin and Punishment because the sort of people who usually champion it are the sort of people who have never played half the classics they venerate, but if it has anything in common with Alien Soldier then I will have to give it a spin.

I have absolutely no nostalgia for it and had a good time with it. It did shed some light on Mario Odyssey for me as well (which I enjoyed but wasn't wowed by) - because I did wonder why the overexcitement for that... yeah, a lot of nostalgia for Mario 64. Turns out I'm not a huge fan of the core "explore an open area and find things to progress" - I much prefer the linear stage structure of 2D Mario (and 3D World, which I absolutely loved when I finally got to play it on Switch) with hidden stuff along the way.

The big appeal of Mario 64 is more about creative traversal than about exploration (for exploration/collecting, the game to go to is Banjo). Best exemplified by Tick Tock Clock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRmJuLdrjjQ
There's two kinds of 3D platformer fans: people who love Tick Tock Clock, and fake platformer fans

Also of all the 3D Mario games, 64 is the one with the least amount of gimmicky time-wasting bullcrap. "WHOA YOU CAN TURN INTO A T-REX" can you please just not, Nintendo? I'm here to jump from a vanishing platform onto a spinning one, not to play a hundred terrible minigames. Galaxy 2 was probably the worst about this, it had great level design but you hardly notice cuz you spend most of your time not getting to play the levels.

3D World bored me to tears because the game pretty much completely squanders the third dimension, it's a game that could be remade in 2D and not lose anything important. Plus the whole game revolves around the catsuit, a power which utterly trivializes 90% of challenges.

Galaxy 2>64

[Blinge]

">I have very little interest in N64
>Here is my list of problems with the console including the technical specs which for some reason i know about "

Dude did an N64 kill one of your family or something?? There's some super strong bias here, it seems personal

"> I've not played OoT but i'll include it in my overrated thread. "
pure genius. Gee, I wonder if this is anything to do with your apparent blood vendetta against said console.

>Oot
>RPG

do we really need to get into this..

8-bit sonic the hedgehog is actually a neat port and is more consistent comapred to the 16-bit version on the Sega genesis

Wait.. WHAT?

[Sumez]

>Here is my list of problems with the console including the technical specs which for some reason i know about "

Trust me, none of the technical specs he discussed in that post had anything to do with the real world

[Bassa-Bassa]

Except for this:

muddy colors for the most part and plenty of fog

Lack of RGB and unfiltered 240p kind of ruined for me the few good things the system got.

[Volteccer_Jack]

Galaxy 2>64

Sunshine>>>>>both, but y'all aren't ready to hear that

[BIL]

No Mercy is better than VPW2,

NAW YOU LYIN (■｀w´■)

but that's only because I'm a garbage American who grew up on ECW and loves all the stupid hardcore shit.

Fair enough. (｀w´メ)（＾w´ ）

Really, VPW2, No Mercy and even WM2K are all fine picks for Ultimate AKI Wrassler. NM's weakness is the noticeably slower 4P framerate. WM2K is speedier, but lacks the critical, crowning addition of Running Grapples for true mixup play.

VPW2 is the best of both - Running Grapples, lightning-quick 4P action, plus an entirely new MMA mode that could've easily been sold as its own game, and can even be mixed/matched with the Puro moveset - at the cost of hardcore/backstage. Which I'm ok with personally, being all about the friendship-compromising in-ring rivalries. And the slight issue of being entirely in Japanese, but the menus are a snap to memo, and that's what GameFAQs is for.

Legendary party/hardcore brawlers, regardless. Even if they'd stopped at Revenge, or even World Tour, they'd be notable. But it's with the last three that they really cleaned up the damage output, so you have to put in the work to land those big slams, and when you do land 'em, it's usually lights out.

Sin and Punishment does sorta feel like Alien Soldier, although it's way easier and doesn't have a control scheme that feels like you need robot fingers to play correctly.

Depends on if you go for score; I find S&P the nervier game, then. AS doesn't really have a score game, and even as a time attack it's very compromised by slot machine RNG, but (maybe because so much of my background is in sidescrollers/run and guns), I find it easier to hold onto my POW. Regardless, the pace and variety of their game-length boss rushes is unmistakable.

It's my dream to build a custom S&P control panel with an Operation Wolf-styled positional uzi taking over for the control stick.

I had previously dismissed Sin and Punishment because the sort of people who usually champion it are the sort of people who have never played half the classics they venerate, but if it has anything in common with Alien Soldier then I will have to give it a spin.

Aw man it's rad Basically Wild Guns' Cabal-styled shooting gallery (you move exclusively in XY, with WG's dive roll, doublejump, and lethal melee strike, the latter executable at any range and able to return projectiles to sender), seamlessly applied to Panzer Dragoon's roving, soaring 3D rail shooter. The whole thing moves with Alien Soldier's ravenous appetite for destruction and madcap variety, with flat-zero filler in an arcade-tight runtime. Like all the best console-original action games, it could go straight into a cab with the most minimal of tweaks.

The joint-best original action game of that generation imo, alongside the Saturn's Taromaru and the PS1's Little Ralph. It was slim pickings that gen, compared to the cornucopias of the previous two, but this trio would've stood proud amongst the very best 8/16bit action or their AC counterparts.

[Air Master Burst]

I'd give it to Silent Bomber over Little Ralph for best PS1 action game, but that's a solid list.

The MMA stuff does nothing for me, but if VPW2 had ladder matches and a CAW as good as NM's I'd rate it higher. Although on actual hardware NM chugs a bit, so that could be a consideration for purists.

Sunshine>>>>>both, but y'all aren't ready to hear that

Sunshine is the only truly great Mario game, unless you like the 2D ones I guess.

[BIL]

I originally gave Silent Bomber an honourable mention in that post, but edited it out because tbh, there's quite a bit of honourable mentions material (ie: games I love and wouldn't be without, but would prioritise below the three mentioned), and I could feel 'em all coming back. Bulk Slash and Panzer Dragoon Zwei on the Saturn, Panzer Bandit and Omega Boost and Silent Bomber on PS1... and at a stretch, with personal favourite caveats, I think the second N64 Castlevania is a horror action/adventure trip worth taking. (I actually love the first one, too, and even consider it superior in some ways, but it's so brutally unrefined in spots, it really does get into charity case territory)

[Volteccer_Jack]

I like Yoshi's Island and SMW, but my favorite 2D Mario game is Kid Chameleon