"Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Sima Tuna
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Sima Tuna »

Air Master Burst wrote:Since we're on the subject:

Strife is a better FPS than Doom 2. So is Quarantine if you count it as a FPS.

Neither can quite touch the first Doom but they outclass the vast majority of the rest of the FPS games of the mid-90s.
I haven't played Strife. DOOM 1 has better level design than DOOM 2 imo, but DOOM 2's super shotgun was such a massive balance improvement to the overall game that it, along with the extra enemy types, more than justifies its existence.

If you go back to DOOM 1 and play it now, it's still fun, but the lack of enemy variety can be painful at times. There are only so many enemy combinations the game can throw at you compared to DOOM II's beefed-up demonic hordes.
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Blinge
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Blinge »

Sima Tuna wrote: Those exceptions better include DOOM, DOOM II, FEAR, QUAKE and Duke 3d, you fffffuck.
Yeah Doom and Quake are pretty fun.
Altho quake felt like it overstayed its welcome. Never played Duke 3D. doesn't appeal
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Air Master Burst
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Air Master Burst »

Doom 2 has some seriously questionable level design, though. Every time I try to play through it again it feels like such a slog compared to Doom 1 or Doom 64. The super shotgun and the extra enemies are nice (although the arch-vile is kinda lame), but very few of the stock Doom 2 maps are anywhere near as polished as what the first one offers. Id's never made a finer collection of maps than the first Doom (although 64 came close).

I'd also put Dark Forces and Blood above Doom 2, and maybe even Rise of the Triad.

Duke 3D has always sucked, and is really a shining example of some of the worst aspects of mid 90s game design.

FEAR is another beast entirely, one that I also dearly love but that belongs to a completely different era and subgenre. Shame all the sequels were trash.
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bottino
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by bottino »

Blinge wrote:FPS games are not fun.

with a few exceptions.
Yes.

No One Lives Forever being one of them IMO.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Sima Tuna »

Air Master Burst wrote:Doom 2 has some seriously questionable level design, though. Every time I try to play through it again it feels like such a slog compared to Doom 1 or Doom 64. The super shotgun and the extra enemies are nice (although the arch-vile is kinda lame), but very few of the stock Doom 2 maps are anywhere near as polished as what the first one offers. Id's never made a finer collection of maps than the first Doom (although 64 came close).

I'd also put Dark Forces and Blood above Doom 2, and maybe even Rise of the Triad.

Duke 3D has always sucked, and is really a shining example of some of the worst aspects of mid 90s game design.

FEAR is another beast entirely, one that I also dearly love but that belongs to a completely different era and subgenre. Shame all the sequels were trash.
DOOM 1 has the best level design, but I don't think the DOOM II levels are all that terrible. I prefer DOOM, but DOOM II made sufficient advances to the formula, and I think the more you play the two games, the more it becomes clear how much strategy was added with DOOM II's changes.

Liking Blood isn't exactly a controversial opinion. It's a well-loved Build engine FPS.

I disagree about Duke 3D. The really shitty levels are fairly late in the campaigns. The first episode of Duke 3d is pretty much perfect imo. Music, atmosphere and stage design are top-notch in episode 1. Not to mention all the secrets and interactive elements.

With regards to QUAKE, it isn't flawless. I think it's very hard to design a 3d game that is. QUAKE's enemies are a little too spongy and its visuals can be hit-or-miss. But the dlc is absolutely fantastic and really demonstrates the flexibility of the engine. The more recent QUAKE DLC from Machinegames (I think it's called Heart of the Machine?) is better than the nu-wolfenstein shit they sell for money. :lol: Overall, I still love QUAKE because of its consistent vision. Its visuals, fantastic score and thoughtful weapon design (no useless pistol) make it a very consistent game, even if the highs aren't quite as high as other classic shooters I enjoy.

I like FEAR 2 despite it being, y'know, not nearly as good as FEAR 1. I won't defend how it ruined the shotgun, but the base gameplay is still fun for me. FEAR 3 was shit though.

I keep meaning to play the modern """boomer shooters""" (classic fps) like Dusk, Amid Evil and Ion Fury, but I haven't gotten around to them yet.
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Air Master Burst
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Air Master Burst »

Quake was never my jam at all, it's like the ugliest game of all time right down to the ear sandpaper that Trent Reznor called a soundtrack. I realize the aesthetic is an intentional choice, but it never appealed to me on any level. Also every level was a fucking maze and that got old quick. The weapons were great and all, but Unreal was better in every way that mattered (it also destroys Quake 2 handily but Quake 2 was pretty lame).

Agree to disagree on Duke 3D I guess, I've never liked anything about that mess. The high level of interactivity is technically impressive but I hate the actual implementation. Even as a teenager in the 90s that "humor" landed with a dull thud.

The only modern boomer shooter I've really played is Project Warlock. It looks and handles real nice, but the enemies and level designs are pretty uninspired. I think it was made by a single person, though, and there's a sequel in development that will hopefully improve on the original. Worth a spin if you find it on sale for sure.
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Sumez
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Sumez »

Doom 1 is just way way better than Doom 2, it's all in the level design.
Even to this day, Doom 1 is probably still one of the most enjoyable FPS games. I agree few other FPS games are really that good at all, but I'm not even sure that opinion is uncommon :D
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Blinge
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Blinge »

I enjoyed Doom 2016 for what it was..

.. i know someone who plays like all kinds of FPS games and immediately said 'nah' to Doom 2016.
Still can't wrap my head around that one.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Sima Tuna »

I noped out of doom 2016 when I saw all the canned animations for executions. It's fine if you like that stuff. For the most part, I find canned execution animations extremely tiresome in games and it's something I tolerate rather than enjoy whenever I play character action titles. Being in first-person, the canned animations in doom 2016 make me a bit ill.
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drauch
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by drauch »

Sima Tuna wrote: I keep meaning to play the modern """boomer shooters""" (classic fps) like Dusk, Amid Evil and Ion Fury, but I haven't gotten around to them yet.
I play a lot of FPS, so this section of the thread is really hurting my heart. If you like the games you mentioned (Blood, Duke, Quake) I think one would be crazy not to like all three of these newer ones. I think Amid Evil's levels are a bit too big for their britches, but it's good stuff regardless, albeit the lesser of those imo.
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WelshMegalodon
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by WelshMegalodon »

Listening to people talk about the absence of "QoL" features in older games is fucking obnoxious.

Listening to people pretend a remake of a game can be treated as a "replacement" for that game is even more obnoxious. If a remake is so good that you shouldn't bother playing the original, then how the FUCK is playing the remake the same experience?
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Sumez »

WelshMegalodon wrote:Listening to people talk about the absence of "QoL" features in older games is fucking obnoxious.
This especially bothers me when "QoL" features in modern ports or sequels changes the basics of a game so fundamentally that entire aspects that are a part of the original's appeal are just completely lost.
It would be like making a port of Castlevania 1 with completely free in-air control.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by BIL »

^ You probably already know, but the 1993 FC cartridge reissue of Akumajou Dracula does actually have a new, reasonably well thought-out Easy mode. The hit knockback is disabled, the III multiplier persists across multiple subweapon pickups, and there may be more I'm forgetting... but IIRC, it leaves the broad strokes intact. Sprang to mind as the antithesis of outright neutersome EZMODE nonsense. I could see a newbie actually developing their fundamentals from that mode, and adjusting to the game's innate twitch/method ethos before taking on the real thing.

My favourite bad example of this is HG101 declaring MD Daimakaimura the game's definitive incarnation, because it has an invincibility cheat. :lol:
a cheat mode where you can slow down the game, play it in Japanese, make Arthur invulnerable (you will be amazed at how difficult the game is even then), or select which level to begin at. Given that the game is essentially impossible without these cheats, this is easily the best version of the game and arguably the best platformer on the console.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Steven »

BIL wrote:^ You probably already know, but the 1993 FC cartridge reissue of Akumajou Dracula does actually have a new, reasonably well thought-out Easy mode.
It's also stupidly expensive lol
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BIL
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by BIL »

Yep! 3; The most decadent way to enjoy Dracula 1 Image
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Steven »

Ironically, you might eventually save money by playing the cart version compared to spending money to buy parts to fix your FDS every time it breaks down to play the FDS version... unless you play it on some sort of emulator, which includes the awesome M2 collection from a few years ago.
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Blinge
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Blinge »

Sima Tuna wrote:I noped out of doom 2016 when I saw all the canned animations for executions. It's fine if you like that stuff. For the most part, I find canned execution animations extremely tiresome in games and it's something I tolerate rather than enjoy whenever I play character action titles. Being in first-person, the canned animations in doom 2016 make me a bit ill.
Doom's canned animations are the best of a bad bunch.. they're incredibly quick.
it's over in a couple of seconds, obviously by design.

also just don't do it then? :wink:
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Vanguard »

Sima Tuna wrote:
Blinge wrote:FPS games are not fun.

with a few exceptions.
Those exceptions better include DOOM, DOOM II, FEAR, QUAKE and Duke 3d, you fffffuck.
And Cruelty Squad
Sumez wrote:Doom 1 is just way way better than Doom 2, it's all in the level design.
Even to this day, Doom 1 is probably still one of the most enjoyable FPS games. I agree few other FPS games are really that good at all, but I'm not even sure that opinion is uncommon :D
Doom 2 is better because it's the world's greatest make-your-own-fps kit, thanks to solid mechanics paired with world class enemy and weapon design. It is a shame that the example levels it comes with are kinda shitty though. They did do a surprisingly good job of the level design in Doom 1 considering that all they had to work with were hitscan enemies, melee enemies, and projectile enemies who fire one bullet at a time, right at you.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Sumez »

Of course Doom 2's core engine is solid :). It's basically Doom 1 with some more enemy types (I think they all feel mostly redundant, but they aren't bad).
The comparison definitely comes down to the level design in the campaign stages, and it's night and day between the two games!
Steven wrote:Ironically, you might eventually save money by playing the cart version compared to spending money to buy parts to fix your FDS every time it breaks down to play the FDS version... unless you play it on some sort of emulator, which includes the awesome M2 collection from a few years ago.
How often have you had to fix your FDS? :D
Mine came with the belt already replaced, and I never had issues with it.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Steven »

Sumez wrote:How often have you had to fix your FDS? :D
Mine came with the belt already replaced, and I never had issues with it.
Fortunately never because I heard too many horror stories and never bought one lol
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by bottino »

WelshMegalodon wrote:Listening to people talk about the absence of "QoL" features in older games is fucking obnoxious.
Sometimes this is more of a reflex of someone being overly tired and/or not having enough free time to properly learn and enjoy these classic games. Gotta take that into consideration.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by SuperDeadite »

Steven wrote:
Sumez wrote:How often have you had to fix your FDS? :D
Mine came with the belt already replaced, and I never had issues with it.
Fortunately never because I heard too many horror stories and never bought one lol
I never had issues with my TurboTwinFami. But in the end I bought the FDSSTICK and a loose RAM adapter for peanuts. So worth it, especially for the games with FM.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Steven »

Almost bought the FDSSTICK myself, but then the Nt mini Noir got internal FDS support, so I never bothered. That thing is basically just a $500 Dracula machine, though, as that's all I really played on it lol. Now it just sits there unused because of the MiSTer. I've been thinking of selling it to buy some Toaplan arcade PCBs.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Sumez »

Paying $500 for a NES that's not even a real NES does sound crazy to me. A FDS setup won't set you back that far even if you need to change the belt 20 times. :D
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by SuperDeadite »

Sumez wrote:Paying $500 for a NES that's not even a real NES does sound crazy to me. A FDS setup won't set you back that far even if you need to change the belt 20 times. :D
The FDSSTICK is supreme as it uses the original RAM Adapter, which contains all the actual hardware that runs FDS games, so you get the 100% real deal experience (including the real deal Ricoh FM chip) without having to worry about the dreaded disk errors. Add in the extremely cheap price, and it is an absolute must own device.
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Sumez
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Sumez »

Yeah I don't think the $500 was for the FDSstick :)
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Mischief Maker »

RPGs work way better as roguelites than zillion-hour-long grind-a-thon epics.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Vanguard »

And roguelites that hearken closely to traditional roguelike design are way better than unlock grind-a-thons. The further games stray from arcade design principles, the worse they turn out.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

Mischief Maker wrote:RPGs work way better as roguelites than zillion-hour-long grind-a-thon epics.
Ha I think the absolute opposite. A properly crafted RPG, where the right characters/classes are introduced at the right time is just so much better than the crapshoot of a roguelite RPG. Is it going to work or will you be tossed down a cul-de-sac? Nah let's just have a game that's had some thought go into its design and progression.

Mind, I've never got on with roguelikes. At best it's a favourable set of dice rolls that leads to a win end state from the off. At worst it's a hiding to nothing where you just don't get the tools necessary to succeed. Unknowingly bashing your head against a brick wall just for the chance of a better dice roll next time around? Nah.
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Re: "Unpopular Gaming Opinions"

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

In order to say how RPGs "work better" you have to first explain what you mean by RPG, since that term is vague to the point of meaninglessness. Final Fantasy and Nethack don't really have much of anything in common so saying that one is better than the other doesn't tell me anything.
TransatlanticFoe wrote:Mind, I've never got on with roguelikes. At best it's a favourable set of dice rolls that leads to a win end state from the off. At worst it's a hiding to nothing where you just don't get the tools necessary to succeed. Unknowingly bashing your head against a brick wall just for the chance of a better dice roll next time around? Nah.
This simply sounds like someone inexperienced with the genre to me. In a roguelike, the biggest difference between a weak player and a strong player is what "the tools necessary to succeed" are. A novice can find Excalibur and still lose, while an expert can be saddled with a cursed -3 sword of suckitude and still win. Knowledge and flexibility are two of the most important factors in roguelikes, and players who complain about randomness are almost invariably lacking in one or both. They know a handful of strong combos and as long as the RNG provides one of those combos they can win, but if the combo pieces don't arrive quickly enough, they die. Strong players build extensive knowledge of as many combos as possible, so that no matter what set of tools they are given they can build a powerful combo. Where a weak player might complain about bad luck, a strong player will MacGyver together a winning build. So to summarize, skill issue :P.

Probability is a factor but a tiny one. It's technically possible to die unavoidably in Nethack for example. But Nethack also has numerous players with 99% winrates and multiple known 100% winrate accounts.
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